If you realy think about it the US has freight cars for 110 mph ((175km/h)). Amtrak used to run train 13 with no passenger cars and had those box cars with smaller clearances on high speed trucks. I don't know if these cars are still in use in opassenger trains today. I always thought of Amtrak's train 13 as a short and fast freight train.
The few European freight cars good for 160 km/h are usualy in a similar kind of service.
The Swiss railways are great but cannot be compared to USA. The rest of Europe is even way behind Switzerland. Switzerland is in a very unique situation being in the crossroads of Europe and heavily populated mountain conditions. There is more freight to move through the Swiss mountains then any similar sized mountain area in the USA. There is also alot of people to move around inside the country.
Tulyar15 wrote:Well even in backward Britain we have 100mph parcels trans and now one of the Open Access operators, Cotswold Rail, has just launched a 100mph automobile carrying train from the English Midlands to Scotland, using the former "Motorail" vans to carry road vehicles in.
Did you hear that FM Rail has been put in Adminstration?(Bankruptcy)
martin.knoepfel wrote: Test-runs through the new Lötschberg-Tunnel can start. Test-trains will reach a top-speed of280 km/h, about 175 mph. Revenue passenger-trains will run slower, IIRC at max. 230 km/h or 145 mph. The new line will see42 passenger-trains and 70-89 freight-trains per day. Since 21 km of the tunnel are single-track without sidings, a train has to at max 7 minutes late or it will have to swap to the old line or to wait for the next free slot.passenger-trains and south-bound freight-trains run through the tunnel in both directions. northbound freight trains will have to use the old line. The new tunnel will be in revenue-service from 9th of december 2007. I will be equipped only with ETCS Level 2 signalling-system
Test-runs through the new Lötschberg-Tunnel can start. Test-trains will reach a top-speed of280 km/h, about 175 mph. Revenue passenger-trains will run slower, IIRC at max. 230 km/h or 145 mph. The new line will see42 passenger-trains and 70-89 freight-trains per day. Since 21 km of the tunnel are single-track without sidings, a train has to at max 7 minutes late or it will have to swap to the old line or to wait for the next free slot.
passenger-trains and south-bound freight-trains run through the tunnel in both directions. northbound freight trains will have to use the old line.
The new tunnel will be in revenue-service from 9th of december 2007. I will be equipped only with ETCS Level 2 signalling-system
Aaahhhh.....130+ trains per day at nearly 150 mph through a 20(?) mile long tunnel......
And here in the USA we limit our regular trains to 79 mph max and average only 25 mph systemwide! There was a time back in the day (1930ish) when steamers were pulling some passenger trains at 100+ mph, and all the talk was of 100 mph trains being the standard for all types of trains......
martin.knoepfel wrote:<snipped> Something funny. In my newspaper, I read about a project to connect Chur in South Eastern Switzerland to the skiing-resort of Lenzerheide, Davos and Arosa by way of monorail. Costs estimated for the first stage to Lenzerheide at the equivalent of more than 130 million US$ (390 mio. Swiss francs)
<snipped>
Something funny. In my newspaper, I read about a project to connect Chur in South Eastern Switzerland to the skiing-resort of Lenzerheide, Davos and Arosa by way of monorail. Costs estimated for the first stage to Lenzerheide at the equivalent of more than 130 million US$ (390 mio. Swiss francs)
With that kind of money they could take care of all of the RhB's needs for at least two decades. The Monorail is not likely to be profitable, who do they expect to subsidize it, the Canton? It won't serve the majority of the population, all just so some tourists can get to their resorts faster. Dumb idea. Would this be a loop from Chur to Lenzerheide, then Arosa, and then Davos? Or would at least Lenzerheide be on a branch? Not to mention a visual blight.
Somebody brought up the question whether German, Austrian and Swiss Federal Railways hat electric power-station that generated AC at 16,7 Hz. I can only answer for Switzerland. Yes, at least two, one in the Gotthard-region and one in the west near the French border. The problem was, until at least the 1960s, if you wanted AC converted from 50 to 16,7 Hz or from 16,7 Hz to 50 Hz, you had to take for example a 16,7 Hz motor that drove a generator that generated the 50 Hz AC. Technically possible, but expensive to build and to operate.
Hi
Thanks for putting me right. If I had done my homework properly, or at least waited 24 hours, I would not have made so many errors.
Also the long ramble about ERTMS Level 3, failed to state the result of the inexperienced Railtrack. With considerable naivety they believed the hype on ' Moving Block', despite the latest London tube line, the Jubilee line extension, struggling with level 3, and giving up So away they went, promising Sir Richard Branson's Virgin West Coast, that delivery of Level 3 would give him the 140mph speed, important for the psychological London to Glasgow in under 4 hours for which they had contracted.
The cost of this unwise decision, escalated the cost of the 125mph upgrade achieved, with conventional signals, the maximum speed allowed for driver sighting, started a cost escalationsteam roller to somewhere around the £5 billion, roughly $10 billion, when original estimates were a fraction of this.
Then the Hadfield nonsense, and the near disintigration of the network, eventually led to political involvement, with the then Minister of Transport, forcing Railtrack into bankrupcy, with my 300 shares! Network Rail replaced it, ostsibly a plc, but in near reality renationalisation.
At the start of the panic, creation of hundreds of Permanent Way Speed Restrictions , most PSR's being 20mph, my Wife and I had flown into Heathrow from holiday in Prague. Living in Macclesfield on the WCML Stoke-on-Trent route, about 16 miles south of Manchester, we normally flew from Manchester Airport, using BA Air Miles.Sadly there was no direct BA flight, so via Heathrow it had to be.The hourly Inter City service pre Pendalino, was about 2 hours 20 minutes. On this day the train barely recovered from one TRS before breaking back from about 60 to 20mph, thejourney taking well over 5 hours! I've told this story, to emphasise the absolute nadir state of the system.
How times have changed. My late Father was the Permenant Way Engineer, for the WCML between Preston and Carlisle. In July 1965 a sleeping car express derailed at Hest Bank, due to a broken rail and travelling about 75mph (For passenger comfort sleeping car trains stick to a maximum of 80mph, line speed 100mph. Ultasonic testing was then fairly new and crude.When we arrived on the scene, the local man on the spot told Dad what had caused the wreck. At that time Steam was on the way out, and an instruction existed that all sections of track over water troughs, Viaducts, and Tunnels had to be tested every 3 months, as well as the daily inspection.Like most industries there is never enough people to do the job, and many of the locations had gone between 6 and 12 months. Dad was facing the sack.He got his assistant, a friend of mine to go to the office, and dig out the last report. From memory it had only been done about 2 weeks previously. The Inspecting Officer of Railways, more or less put it down to an Act of God, apart from Workington Steel Works who had rolled the duff rail.
Apart, hopefully being of interest, the point I am trying to make of a huge increase in red tape is that the train derailed about 02.00. One line was clear and open by 13.00 same day, both lines at 17.00. In comparison any accident today, takes ages maybe a weekfor the line to re-open. To add to the ludicrous way we do things in UK plc, everyone is scared of criminal action being taken against them, any case involving passenger injury, is now automatically declared a crime scene.
The broken rail was towards the end of water troughs, and although a real mess, the troughs actually kept the train less spreadeagled than it would have been, although apart from the Class 47 diesel, and the first 3 coaches, some were upside down, some on their sides, and down the shallow embankment.Fortunatly despite one of the biggest wrecks I've seen,only about 10 to 12 people were injured, the worst case out of hospital in three hours.
Yes I am aware of the EU directive, but I am only realising the depth of knowledge this forum has. The UK ones I sometimes post on, vary from little more than loco number collectors up to your standard, so I try topost in a casual way. Please accept my apologise for insulting your intelligence.
Yes I do know that ERMTS is becoming good at level 1 and to a lesser degree level 2 in mainland europe.A line has been chosen for the first UK test, the single line from Shrewsbury to Aberystwth, through the Welsh mountains and moors, with about 5 to 6 trains each way per day. No freight. Talk about jumping in at the shallow end.
Those of you who don't get' Todays Railways Europe', or an odd one, as I used to buy 'Trains', the best article I've seen is in Issue 127 July 2006. I had to smile when the article said that a Eurostar had to carry six signal/train protection systems for the London -Paris/Brussels run, and Thalys PBKA eight on the Paris -Brussels - Koln/ Amsterdam route.
Having posted that multi voltage loco's are not much more than single voltage, the cost of all this non compatable ATP systems,puts 50% on the cost of a loco, diesel or electric, and the extra weight I was rabbiting on about yesterday.
For those who have not seen the article, the magnitude of the problem is listed by Country. Don't ask what they do other than being cab signals, and a Signal Passed At Danger SPAD prevention device. Apart from knowing enough of the main principles, for me to do my job when I was working, , thanks to the recent posts, they may help me in a planned ' fall ' job as a Terminal design consultant.Personally I think a degree in withcraft is needed with the technical to be a Signal Engineer.
Source : Alstom
Note
Finally the Belgian class was 16 not 26,all 8 of them
Well I think you've had enough from me for a bit, so I will leave you in peace for a while
Oh! If you want to take out a subscribtion to Todays Railways-Europe, and/or TR-UK, or just a back number e-mai info@wiseowlmagazines.com Tel (760) 603-9768 Fax (760) 603-9769.
The address of the US/Canadasubscription agent
Wise Owl Worldwide Publications, 5674 ElCamino Real, Suite D,Carlsbad, CA92008-7130.
Take care friends,
Andrew.
railwayandy wrote: The Betuweroute / HSL Zuid According to Todays Railways - Europe, Angel trains are to lease 15 TRAXX machines, with ETCS signalling, configured for Germany/ Austria and Holland and Belgium.They must have got a good deal, as although the Bombadier TRAXX 185 bi-voltage has been around for a few years now, the competing 4 voltage Siemens class189 is well proven and now reliable.Andy
The Betuweroute / HSL Zuid According to Todays Railways - Europe, Angel trains are to lease 15 TRAXX machines, with ETCS signalling, configured for Germany/ Austria and Holland and Belgium.They must have got a good deal, as although the Bombadier TRAXX 185 bi-voltage has been around for a few years now, the competing 4 voltage Siemens class189 is well proven and now reliable.
Andy
HSL Zuid
The only reason why Angel trains are able to lease Bombardier TRAXX locomotives to the HSA (high speed alliance / NS and (Air Frqance-)KLM) is the fact that AnsaldoBreda of Italy is not able to deliver the ordered new high speed train sets. The locomotives will run with existing ICR type passenger cars. The Thalys trainsets will get the new safety equipment to late and will run for some time after the opening of the HSL Zuid over the current route via Roosendaal......
safety issues
By the way, all train collisions of the last years in the Netherlands have been at low speed. Below 40 kph actually as that is the limit from which our safety system, known as ATB, kicks in.
The new ECTS / ERTMS system is supposed to work from 0 and this week it became public knowledge that it will take another 2 years before implementation starts....
There is also considerable concern about working hours and training for freight engineers, especially those working for the smaller companies. According to a story in my newspaper this morning, if they have to run 20 times between Utrecht and Rotterdam CS to get a qualification and they run sometimes only as far as Rotterdam Noord goods yard then their managers sign their papers as if they have run the whole distance. When engineers question that practice they get the answer that that was what they (management) were doing when they were working for road freight companies..... In the good old days it took 4 years before full qualification and now as little as 6 months. Couple that to a practice of paying more for heavy trains and new engineers quickly ant up for those runs. If your train handling ability is not yet good then it comes as no surprise that you can miss a red signal. And if your boss then threatens to fire you, I guess there are quite e few unhappy engineers out there.
Working hours can be up to 15 hours (according to unnamed engineers or 12 according to Railion NL for runs into Germany) with very little time for rest during the runs, eat your lunch in the cab during the run. Not really surprising than that they run past red signals at low speed with trains whose weight is ever increasing. Inspections by the relevant government agencies are almost non existent it seems.
Another worrying fact is that last year there were almost 400 instances of trains runnig through red signals, up from 251 in 2002.
This little table says it all:
2002: 251 times through red
2003: 281
2004: 353
2005: 392
2002: passenger trains: 196; freight trains: 27; maintenance trains: 12; technical failure of signals: 16
2003: 215; 35; 13; 18
2004: 210; 43; 25; 75
2005: 182; 36; 32; 142
Couple this with the fact that there are also well over 300 disruptions of traffic because of hitting cars, suicides, track and switch failures, bridge problems or train failures (always at the most inconvenient places) and it really is a wonder that we don't see a total collapse of the system. Or maybe we just got used to the messages saying that because of logistical problems (no train, no crew) or signal and or switch failures there is a cutback of services and buses are ordered as replacements (usually with delays of around 1 hour or more if buses are necessary).
As for French national companies: at least Air France seems to be able to do better. or is that because they took over KLM? One of the KLM subsidiaries (reasonably low cost Transavia) will now set up business in France and other countries (Italy is named) as a low cost carrier...
greetings,
Marc Immeker
railwayandy wrote:I used to get a lot of fun from reading the weekly "lost wagon" lists, well before TOPS. The sort of thing was "10 tons of vegatables in non insulated van, missing since 10th June" the memo dated 14th October! We may have thought Beeching was in leauge with the Devil, but he did kick start the 2 steps forward, 1 step back, to where we are today.
I used to get a lot of fun from reading the weekly "lost wagon" lists, well before TOPS. The sort of thing was "10 tons of vegatables in non insulated van, missing since 10th June" the memo dated 14th October! We may have thought Beeching was in leauge with the Devil, but he did kick start the 2 steps forward, 1 step back, to where we are today.
Hi Andi,
it should have been easy to find this particular wagon. just follow your nose.
BTW, the new Lötschberg-tunnel will be equipped with ETCS level 2 from the beginning of revenue service
railwayandy wrote: ! Indeed I've recently seen that the Estonian Govt. is to re-nationalise them. Bit odd, as they are now in the EU, where separation of infrastructure, from train operating companies, with access potentially allowed to any rail company is mandatory.In the long term whilst each country may have a single track authority, in theory this too should turn into commercial ventures.Try telling that to the French! Andy
! Indeed I've recently seen that the Estonian Govt. is to re-nationalise them. Bit odd, as they are now in the EU, where separation of infrastructure, from train operating companies, with access potentially allowed to any rail company is mandatory.In the long term whilst each country may have a single track authority, in theory this too should turn into commercial ventures.Try telling that to the French!
No, there is nothing in EU law that says infrastructure and operations have to be owned separately. The relevant EU law, 1990/441 merely states that state owned railways must produce separate accounts for infrastructure and operations and must allow Open Access operators to use any available spare capacity. The directive was modelled on the arrangement in the Channel Tunnel, where Eurotunnel, who own the infrastucture, sell spare path to Eurostar passenger trains (which were originally operated by BR and SNCF) and to any freight operator with a safety case. Eurotunnel themselves operated the road vehicle carrying shuttles.
railwayandy wrote:Hi again all First, apologise for the last post above. Somehow this seems to have been posted on the wrong string. I can only claim premature senility, that's what a lifetime working for British Railways can do! Glancing through the various posts, there are a few points I would like to comment on. Voltage 1500dc is not unique to Holland, French Railways are roughly 50/50 25kv ac, and 1500 dc.Basically it is ac in the north, and dc in the south.In consquence from a relatively early date say about 1960/65,electric loco's were bi-current. Seems to work OK, at least I have never seen that it has caused any problems. Multi Voltage Loco's/ EMU's Tri and Quadri Voltages, basically DB's 4 voltage 1966 class 184, and Belgian class 26 ? were expensive. Technology has come a long way, and I think I've posted before that Austrian OBB, when ordering 400 of the 1016 class "Taurus" fleet, had no intention of a multi voltage machine.Siemens, the builders told them that there was now really no difference in adding 25kv as well as the "Germanic" 15kv.I believe the difference was less than 5% more. So after 50 1016 had been delivered, the remaining 350 are dual voltage.
Hi again all
First, apologise for the last post above. Somehow this seems to have been posted on the wrong string.
I can only claim premature senility, that's what a lifetime working for British Railways can do!
Glancing through the various posts, there are a few points I would like to comment on.
Voltage 1500dc is not unique to Holland, French Railways are roughly 50/50 25kv ac, and 1500 dc.Basically it is ac in the north, and dc in the south.In consquence from a relatively early date say about 1960/65,electric loco's were bi-current. Seems to work OK, at least I have never seen that it has caused any problems.
Multi Voltage Loco's/ EMU's Tri and Quadri Voltages, basically DB's 4 voltage 1966 class 184, and Belgian class 26 ? were expensive. Technology has come a long way, and I think I've posted before that Austrian OBB, when ordering 400 of the 1016 class "Taurus" fleet, had no intention of a multi voltage machine.Siemens, the builders told them that there was now really no difference in adding 25kv as well as the "Germanic" 15kv.I believe the difference was less than 5% more. So after 50 1016 had been delivered, the remaining 350 are dual voltage.
Only 282 of the 1116 dual voltage Taurus for the OeBB.
With few exceptions, most new electric loco's are at least bi-voltage.The ' Taurus' fleet now have a further, 50 potentially 4 voltage, but to save weight, several are configured for only 3, depending where they are to operate.They can easily be altered.
Another problem is pantographs, only 4 are possible on modern locomotives, even when neighboring countries share the same power system they may require different pantographs.
I think the reason that Angel Trains bought Bombardier TRAXX multi-system locomotives is because they considered Siemens a competitor in the locomotive leasing business because of Siemens Dispolok subsidiary. Notice how none of the other leasing companies own Siemens locomotives? I think Siemens got the message because they recently sold Dispolok to Mitsui (MRCE). BTW the Bombardier TRAXX multi-system competitor to Siemens ES64F4 (German 189) has been operating for a couple of years now in Switzerland and Italy as SBB Cargo's Re 484 (in Italy E484) locomotives. Bombardier has orders for about 60 of these locomotives for all three large leasing companies. Bombardier model for this locomotive is TRAXX F140MS2 (in Germany it will be Class 186)
If my comments appear to contradict, with weight saving, it is because of the I believe 15 different cab signalling systems floating about in Europe. All hope that ETCS with ERTMS, level 2 at least, will arrive soon - very very unlikely.
It is operating successfully in Switzerland and Spain now, The Swiss have decided to install either Level 1 or Level 2 on the entire standard gauge network by 2015. They plan to shutdown the backup Signum and Integra signalling systems on the Matstetten-Rothrist mainline in June 2007.
When BR was privatised, Railtrack had virtually no engineers.It was more or less people from outside, who joined, as my generation grabbed their pensions and ran! The West Coast Line renewal was going to have ETMS level 3,- moving block.This would mean, no lineside signals, computers and track mounted transponders would "assess" how far and fast the train in front was doing, and compere with the following train.Train operators today moan about the 5 or so miles of ' fresh air' between trains. Capacity is now the name of the game, with even hard bitten road hauliers with a deep resentment of rail, are trying to climb on the railfreight bandwagon.With the MI, M6,and the London orbital motorway, the last known as the largest car park in the capital, rising fuel costs, harshly enforced drivers hours, and an acute driver shortage, the road haulage industry has it's back to the wall.Apart from a few exceptions, there are no toll roads in the UK, we all get hammered for an annual road tax, in my case - a small family car, I pay roughly the equivalent of $250 a year.Goods vehicles add another 0 at least. On top of this road charging is being contemplated, either as an addition, or alternative. UK railways are now carrying more passengers and freight ( thelatter in tonne-miles) than early post war, but thanks to Beeching about half the system size, and even more in track miles as over the years, every bit of track not fully used was ripped up.4 track main lines were reduced to 2 and double tracks singled. This was going to be a short post! Finally, why the fuss about weight. Whilst the UK has the tightest structure gauge, it generally has the highest axle load at 25.5 tonnes. Most of mainland Europe is about 21 tonnes, and incredible as it may seem Russian 1520mm gauge, with a structure gauge almost as large as yours is also only about 21 tonnes. When Ed B bought part of Estonian raiways, previously part of the USSR, he brought over some second hand US SD diesels. Which type I'm feeling too tired to find out. They laid down an axle load of 30 tonnes, and wondered why rails were breaking! Indeed I've recently seen that the Estonian Govt. is to re-nationalise them. Bit odd, as they are now in the EU, where separation of infrastructure, from train operating companies, with access potentially allowed to any rail company is mandatory.In the long term whilst each country may have a single track authority, in theory this too should turn into commercial ventures.Try telling that to the French! AndyThe Estee Raudtee brought over GE C36-7s
When BR was privatised, Railtrack had virtually no engineers.It was more or less people from outside, who joined, as my generation grabbed their pensions and ran! The West Coast Line renewal was going to have ETMS level 3,- moving block.This would mean, no lineside signals, computers and track mounted transponders would "assess" how far and fast the train in front was doing, and compere with the following train.Train operators today moan about the 5 or so miles of ' fresh air' between trains. Capacity is now the name of the game, with even hard bitten road hauliers with a deep resentment of rail, are trying to climb on the railfreight bandwagon.With the MI, M6,and the London orbital motorway, the last known as the largest car park in the capital, rising fuel costs, harshly enforced drivers hours, and an acute driver shortage, the road haulage industry has it's back to the wall.Apart from a few exceptions, there are no toll roads in the UK, we all get hammered for an annual road tax, in my case - a small family car, I pay roughly the equivalent of $250 a year.Goods vehicles add another 0 at least. On top of this road charging is being contemplated, either as an addition, or alternative. UK railways are now carrying more passengers and freight ( thelatter in tonne-miles) than early post war, but thanks to Beeching about half the system size, and even more in track miles as over the years, every bit of track not fully used was ripped up.4 track main lines were reduced to 2 and double tracks singled. This was going to be a short post! Finally, why the fuss about weight. Whilst the UK has the tightest structure gauge, it generally has the highest axle load at 25.5 tonnes. Most of mainland Europe is about 21 tonnes, and incredible as it may seem Russian 1520mm gauge, with a structure gauge almost as large as yours is also only about 21 tonnes. When Ed B bought part of Estonian raiways, previously part of the USSR, he brought over some second hand US SD diesels. Which type I'm feeling too tired to find out. They laid down an axle load of 30 tonnes, and wondered why rails were breaking! Indeed I've recently seen that the Estonian Govt. is to re-nationalise them. Bit odd, as they are now in the EU, where separation of infrastructure, from train operating companies, with access potentially allowed to any rail company is mandatory.In the long term whilst each country may have a single track authority, in theory this too should turn into commercial ventures.Try telling that to the French! Andy
When BR was privatised, Railtrack had virtually no engineers.It was more or less people from outside, who joined, as my generation grabbed their pensions and ran! The West Coast Line renewal was going to have ETMS level 3,- moving block.This would mean, no lineside signals, computers and track mounted transponders would "assess" how far and fast the train in front was doing, and compere with the following train.Train operators today moan about the 5 or so miles of ' fresh air' between trains.
Capacity is now the name of the game, with even hard bitten road hauliers with a deep resentment of rail, are trying to climb on the railfreight bandwagon.With the MI, M6,and the London orbital motorway, the last known as the largest car park in the capital, rising fuel costs, harshly enforced drivers hours, and an acute driver shortage, the road haulage industry has it's back to the wall.Apart from a few exceptions, there are no toll roads in the UK, we all get hammered for an annual road tax, in my case - a small family car, I pay roughly the equivalent of $250 a year.Goods vehicles add another 0 at least. On top of this road charging is being contemplated, either as an addition, or alternative.
UK railways are now carrying more passengers and freight ( thelatter in tonne-miles) than early post war, but thanks to Beeching about half the system size, and even more in track miles as over the years, every bit of track not fully used was ripped up.4 track main lines were reduced to 2 and double tracks singled.
This was going to be a short post! Finally, why the fuss about weight. Whilst the UK has the tightest structure gauge, it generally has the highest axle load at 25.5 tonnes. Most of mainland Europe is about 21 tonnes, and incredible as it may seem Russian 1520mm gauge, with a structure gauge almost as large as yours is also only about 21 tonnes. When Ed B bought part of Estonian raiways, previously part of the USSR, he brought over some second hand US SD diesels. Which type I'm feeling too tired to find out. They laid down an axle load of 30 tonnes, and wondered why rails were breaking! Indeed I've recently seen that the Estonian Govt. is to re-nationalise them. Bit odd, as they are now in the EU, where separation of infrastructure, from train operating companies, with access potentially allowed to any rail company is mandatory.In the long term whilst each country may have a single track authority, in theory this too should turn into commercial ventures.Try telling that to the French!
railwayandy wrote:Hi folks. It's a been some time since I've been able to post on this forum. Virtually the whole of European Railways, national and private, have despaired with Fret SNCF.
Hi folks. It's a been some time since I've been able to post on this forum.
Virtually the whole of European Railways, national and private, have despaired with Fret SNCF.
After a long battle private operators are getting onto the French network, and showing up SNCF something rotten.My latest International/European magazines, web sites, plus the UK freight forum, Freightmaster Interactive, have been amused, by one operator gaining a traffic flow on a north - south route, about 400 miles at most, which has been hauled and delivered in a matter of hours, as it should be.
I think Fret SNCF management was hoping that Open Access could be delayed until they had time to turn around their company. Even with Global Warming glaciers move faster than change happens at French National companies.
The customer was amazed, he had become used to SNCF delivering in nine days! A US railroad would have land bridged over your country from west to east coast in far less than that. Before I get too much on my high horse, I must remember, that when I joined BR in 1962, nine days was normal for a distance less than that. The trouble was the British disease of assuming nothing ever changes. Whilst this attitude was fine before decent sized road trucks arrived on the scene, somehow, the powers that be were in a + or -1910 time warp. It has generally been assumed, that this was UK rail's golden age, and how on earth sentient beings were able to virtually ignore the massive hemereging of freight defies my comprehension. I have no preference over nationalised railways versus private operators, but when the old BR tried to save wagonload in the 1980's, with Speedlink, they ended up with costs twice as much as revenue! Even before Wisconsin Central bought most of the rail freight business in the UK as EWS, the "shadow" companies were set up, and given a much more decision power and hands on attitude, than the old system, with almost everything, needing approval from at least the Regional Freight Manager. We used to call this nonsense "always ask Dad before you can act". In consequence the wagonload business was restarted and well on the way to successs, before Privatisation and Ed B showed up.
The customer was amazed, he had become used to SNCF delivering in nine days! A US railroad would have land bridged over your country from west to east coast in far less than that. Before I get too much on my high horse, I must remember, that when I joined BR in 1962, nine days was normal for a distance less than that. The trouble was the British disease of assuming nothing ever changes.
Whilst this attitude was fine before decent sized road trucks arrived on the scene, somehow, the powers that be were in a + or -1910 time warp. It has generally been assumed, that this was UK rail's golden age, and how on earth sentient beings were able to virtually ignore the massive hemereging of freight defies my comprehension.
I have no preference over nationalised railways versus private operators, but when the old BR tried to save wagonload in the 1980's, with Speedlink, they ended up with costs twice as much as revenue!
Even before Wisconsin Central bought most of the rail freight business in the UK as EWS, the "shadow" companies were set up, and given a much more decision power and hands on attitude, than the old system, with almost everything, needing approval from at least the Regional Freight Manager. We used to call this nonsense "always ask Dad before you can act". In consequence the wagonload business was restarted and well on the way to successs, before Privatisation and Ed B showed up.
During the 20th Century, the proportion of freight handled by rail fell from about 60%, at the start to 8% by 1994. It is still growing, and although 11% seems a small percentage, it has been achieved from a near terminal position. When Beeching arrived in 1962?, if correct, the year I started work with BR, the first thing he noticed, was that wagons "in transit" were sat in marshalling yards, for most of the time. A journey from say the London area to Scotland, may have to pass through on average 3 to 5 yards, maybe waiting for days before wandering a few miles to the next yard. I used to get a lot of fun from reading the weekly "lost wagon" lists, well before TOPS. The sort of thing was "10 tons of vegatables in non insulated van, missing since 10th June" the memo dated 14th October! We may have thought Beeching was in leauge with the Devil, but he did kick start the 2 steps forward, 1 step back, to where we are today. Sadly SNCF seem to be in a similar mess, partly perhaps due to fear of change. To be fair the workforce will go on strike at the drop of a hat. Indeed in 1955, the UK Footplatemens Union ASLEF, went on strike for several weeks, and this alone cost a permanent loss of about 20% of freight to road just in that time, which never came back. Cheers, Andy
During the 20th Century, the proportion of freight handled by rail fell from about 60%, at the start to 8% by 1994. It is still growing, and although 11% seems a small percentage, it has been achieved from a near terminal position.
When Beeching arrived in 1962?, if correct, the year I started work with BR, the first thing he noticed, was that wagons "in transit" were sat in marshalling yards, for most of the time. A journey from say the London area to Scotland, may have to pass through on average 3 to 5 yards, maybe waiting for days before wandering a few miles to the next yard.
Sadly SNCF seem to be in a similar mess, partly perhaps due to fear of change. To be fair the workforce will go on strike at the drop of a hat. Indeed in 1955, the UK Footplatemens Union ASLEF, went on strike for several weeks, and this alone cost a permanent loss of about 20% of freight to road just in that time, which never came back.
Cheers,
Hi everybody,
I have been busy so excuses for this late answer.
Dogshead emu's are, sadly, no longer among us with the exception of a 4 car unit in museum train service. It regularly operates from Utrecht Central Station to Utrecht Maliebaan where our national railroad museum is (it wais completely refurbished a year or two ago).
Dogshead emu's date from 1954. The emu in the picture dates from 1966-1972, have not checked which series it is from. They are officially plan V (V as in the letter, not roman 5) and where designed in 1964. Some people have given them the nickname apekop (apehead or monkeyhead, in Dutch there is no disctinction) but that did not really stick.
As for the investments mentioned. They are for people travelling / commuting from outside the randstad area into that area. There is a large group of people that commute over long distances. This plan is to get them out of their cars at a convenient location, shuttle them to a connecting station and send them on their way. Branches are not the solution in this case, even if there was space for them (including on the mainlines), there are already raillines. This solution is for people that for some reason cannot or willnot use a railway station closer to their homes. As you can see it attempts to avoid going around Utrecht by car. Often motorways like the A2 from Amsterdam to well past Utrecht are full of slow moving cars during rush hour.
Trains with the most travellers (2005):
1 intercity Haarlem - Heerlen / Maastricht (via Amsterdam and Utrecht) 24 million travellers
2 intercity Nijmegen - Den Helder (via Utrecht and Amsterdam) 23.6 million
3 fast train Zwolle - Roosendaal (via Arnhem - Nijmegen - Den Bosch - Tilburg and Breda) 21 million
4 intercity Enschede - The Hague / Rotterdam (via Apeldoorn - Amersfoort - Utrecht) / Amsterdam / Schiphol (via Apeldoorn - Amersfoort) 18.5 million
5 intercity Amsterdam - Roosendaal / Vlissingen (via The Hague - Rotterdam and Dordrecht) 18 million
Number 3 was a surprise but especially the part in the province of North Brabant ( - Den Bosch - Tilburg - Breda to Roosendaal) is busy.
I thought it was a "dog-heads" too at first, but then it wasn't. Do they still use dog-heads in service?
martin.knoepfel wrote:Hi Marc,two questions. Would it not be more convenient to build branch-lines from existing railroad ROWs to the new transfer stations and funnel the branch-line-trains into the main-line. No change of trains, possibility to get and keep a seat etc. Perhaps, the NS could use EMUs oder DMUs with automatic couplers for quick splitting or combining trains. Like the former RDC on the Boston & Maine. Other question. The passenger-train shown in the wreck-fotos - very good fotos, I must admit, although on a sad occasion - seems to be one of the famous dog-heads. I thought, they were all retired. Am I wrong?
We already have park and ride stations, mostly at suburban stations in newly developed neighbourhoods. Generally they function well.
I should have made clear where these stations will be build and why it is not a dumb plan. These stations are additional ones and do not replace inner city big stations. It is more of a further development of the park and ride theme outside (mostly) the build up areas.
First some geography. Around half the Dutch population (8 out of 16.3 million) lives in the west of the Netherlands in an area called Randstad Holland (loosely translated as Edge City Holland). That area is less than 20 % of our country. Actually it is a circle of cities and the circle has a diameter comparable to say, the greater Paris or London area. The hart of this area is empty and stays that way, it is designated a national landscape, those polders which have made us famous are located there...
Motorways leading in to the Randstad are largely 2 lanes per direction, like the A1 from Amersfoort to Amsterdam, especially the part until the A9/A10 belt motorways around Amsterdam. It is very difficult and in places no even possible to increase lanes on the A1 for instance. If you have ever driven a car during rush hour in the Netherlands on those motorways you don't need convincing. Unless you are Dutch, than it always is that other guy that should leave his car at home and use public transport...
Population movement for the last 20 years has been outward. In fact the circle has developed two distinct wings in the eastern direction. Now it is becoming horse shoe shaped. One wing is just above the great rivers in an area called Veluwe in the province of Gelderland. It is stretching all the way to Arnhem which is close to the border with Germany. The other wing stretches (south) east from Rotterdam / Dordrecht south of the rivers in the province of North Brabant.
The new stations will be east of a line from Amersfoort south to Utrecht and then south of the rivers as well as along an east -west line south of the rivers.
The goal is to get more car drivers out of their cars and into the trains, especially people that do not now use public transport. The (major) train stations however are all located in or near the centers of all the cities. Parking your car there is not a viable option, too expensive and it takes time to get into those cit centers. Out in the green fields it is easier since the target are the people who live outside the major cities in the countless small and growing towns. It is also not a viable option apparently to build new stations that can be served by the long distance trains (long by Dutch standards, they are more or less glorified commuter trains, it is quite normal to commute 100 km one way by trains or car these days). They would lose too much time.
So the idea is to build metro / subway type lines parallel to the rail lines from these transfer stations to the big stations. These transfer stations will probably see some rapid development around it.
By the way, these days around 1 million people ride NS trains. NS is working to increase that to 1.5 million by 2020. This plan is one of many ideas to get to that goal.
All in all not such a dumb plan as it may seem.
Greetings,
PS Randstad Holland consists of these cities (clockwise from Amsterdam): greater Amsterdam area, Almere, Bussum/Hilversum, Amersfoort, Utrecht, Nieuwegein / IJsselstein, Gorinchem, Dordrecht, greater Rotterdam area, Delft, greater the Hague area, greater Leiden area, greater Haarlem area, Zaanstad, Amsterdam. North wing: from Utrecht east, Driebergen / Zeist, Veenendaal, Rhenen, Wageningen, Ede, Arnhem, Nijmegen. South wing from Dordrecht: Breda, Tilburg / Waalwijk, northeast to Den Bosch, Oss and Nijmegen, southeast to Eindhoven/Helmond.
marcimmeker wrote:In other Dutch rail news: NS plans to invest 11 billion euros in new stations located at places where motorways and raillines cross each other. Facilities will include fitness centers, child care, supermarkets, theaters, restaurants, hotels, parking, car cleaning, cleaning for clothes. At these transfer stations 1 billion is needed for the station themselves, 4 billion for new trains and 4 to 6 billion for the necessary infrastructure. By 2020 these plans should be realised. Metro like lines would transport passengers from these transfer stations to the NS stations. greetings, Marc Immeker
In other Dutch rail news:
NS plans to invest 11 billion euros in new stations located at places where motorways and raillines cross each other. Facilities will include fitness centers, child care, supermarkets, theaters, restaurants, hotels, parking, car cleaning, cleaning for clothes.
At these transfer stations 1 billion is needed for the station themselves, 4 billion for new trains and 4 to 6 billion for the necessary infrastructure.
By 2020 these plans should be realised. Metro like lines would transport passengers from these transfer stations to the NS stations.
ACTS stated on its website that the locomotive was on sublease to ERS Railways. It was also an ERS Railways train so it was in all probability an ERS driver or a driver operating under ERS control, no information on the ERS Railways website though. If he really ran through the red signal while paying no attention to it he is in trouble. On the other hand, the Utrecht - Arnhem line (where he came from I think) has suffered from an excess of leaves on the track since last weekend. Or there may have been a problem with the locomotive. The police have not released details of the interogation.
This is not a good week for ACTS. After yesterdays accident at Rotterdam Central Station and sundays incident (fire in a partytrain also at Rotterdam with power and personnel provided by ACTS), today another ACTS locomotive (ERS Railways actually, container shuttle 42377 to border station Emmerich and destination Melnik in the Czech republic, powered by ACTS 66 513-9, leased from MRCE and on long term hire to ERS Railways) collided with a local passenger train (plan V 826 and plan T 531 emu's in Zutphen - Arnhem - Nijmegen service by NS) at Arnhem in the east of the country. The station was blocked on the east side for a long time. International traffic (ICE trains Amsterdam - Frankfurt (Germany) and freight traffic) was affected.
31 people were injured, 11 persons were transported to hospitals. At 22.00 PM 3 were still in the hospital, none seriously injured.
The engineer of the freight train was questioned by the police. Witnesses said he ran past a red signal.
close up picture by Simon Bruggeling:
http://members.lycos.nl/simonbruggeling/PB211632.JPG
Next pictures from the Dutch press agency ANP
Next a picture from M Koot
Next pictures from Muhammed
Last a picture by M de Jongh
John,
I don't know if ACTS run the Veendam shuttle with diesel, electric from Kijfhoek or electric and diesel. It may depend on the available traction and / or the weight of the train, todays accident at Arnhem will see a class 66 out of action for some time I'm afraid. The 1200 class cannot get the heaviest shuttles over the road on time. Other routes where they are or can be used are Rotterdam - Leeuwarden, Rotterdam -Coevorden. Occasionally they can be found elswhere.
Also, ACTS only got 5 class 1200's from the scrapper. One was used for spares and I think that currently only 3 are available.
As for water levels, it varies I think. July was very hot, 35 degrees Celsius. August was the wettest month on record and autumn looks to set another record for warmth. Low water on the Rhine etc. seems distinctly possible. However, I have not observed this directly. Rotterdam is around the 1000 km point of the Rhine from Switzerland and there are only 30 km more to go from here. Tides are noticible here in the center of town. The situation in the canals can be regulated by the locks.
When looking at all the new open access operators it seems that they found a niche market in running infrastructure trains (ballast trains, moving track maintenance equipment etc) or got there start in running unit trains. Because they are smaller they can offer a more personal service to customers. Customers that were disappointed by the old state owned systems seem to give the new kids a try and often like what they get. Undoubtedly steadily worsening road conditions (gridlock particularly) are a factor just as a growing economy is.
One factor for the future is the fact that more land in the watershed of the Rhine is being build over (buildings and roads). The weather is getting more and more unpredictable with more extremes like longer periods of wet weather. This means that water gets faster to the rivers and they cannot get rid of it quickly enough. One of the measures being debated is dredging the river channels to a wider and deeper profile. Deeper certainly is good for inland shipping but not for railroads.
I particularly look forward to the elimination of the 1500 volt dc for freight traffic (opening of the Betuweroute). Not just from the standpoint of more variety in trainwatching. This will give freigth operators the chance to get an even longer haul to themselves with all economies of scale for themselves. Terminal to terminal competition between railroads will be more intense and more innovation in marketing and operating practices will result.
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