The ALCo diesel locomotive thread

[Anonymous]

can any body tell at what speed dl-560 has been running in India. If it is allowed to ron less than 75mph then what are the reasons.

[Anonymous]

can any body tell at what speed dl-560 has been running in India. If it is allowed to ron less than 75mph then what are the reasons.

[Anonymous]

hi-looks like no body really want to discuss alco any more

[Anonymous]

hi-looks like no body really want to discuss alco any more

[M636C]

Tariq,

Sorry, I've been away. The official maximum speed for the WDM2 (DL-560) in India is 120km/h, close to the 75 mph you quote.

There are a number of electric locomotives in India with Alco Trimount trucks, and these are limited to 120 km/h also.

The higher speed locomotives use trucks that appear to be Alco Hi-Ad (as used on C-636) and EMD Flexicoil, or similar to these. These are allowed to do 140km/h.

I have spoken to my contacts about the modifications to the trimount, but they were no help as to the reasons for the changes.

Peter

[M636C]

Tariq,

Sorry, I've been away. The official maximum speed for the WDM2 (DL-560) in India is 120km/h, close to the 75 mph you quote.

There are a number of electric locomotives in India with Alco Trimount trucks, and these are limited to 120 km/h also.

The higher speed locomotives use trucks that appear to be Alco Hi-Ad (as used on C-636) and EMD Flexicoil, or similar to these. These are allowed to do 140km/h.

I have spoken to my contacts about the modifications to the trimount, but they were no help as to the reasons for the changes.

Peter

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Question for Peter and Dave:
How well are the Alco-related designs holding up in Australia? There don't seem to be too many left besides the 48 class.

Paul

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Question for Peter and Dave:
How well are the Alco-related designs holding up in Australia? There don't seem to be too many left besides the 48 class.

Paul

[Anonymous]

This thread survived longer then ALco itself

[Anonymous]

This thread survived longer then ALco itself

[M636C]

Paul,

As you say, the DL-531s (48 and 830 classes) are still operating in large numbers. The 3'6" lines of ARG in South Australia are almost exclusively operated by these units, and Silverton and Pacific National make a lot of use of them on lighter track.

The minor private operators still use a few of the DL 500 (44 or 930 classes) and the DL541 (45 and 600 classes). The DL 500G (442 and 700 classes) have a few units still working, but these units are being heavily rebuilt as GEs (GL class) using second hand equipment from ex Conrail C30-7s, and some (RL class) as EMDs with rebuilt SD50 engines and equipment. About half the original total will be rebuilt.

Of the later Comeng built units, three CE618s (Westrail NA and NB) remain, two on standard gauge and about half of the 80 class (CE615s) are still around and operable with Silverton and Pacific National.

The last of the Pilbara units, the rebuilt Robe River C636s have gone as a result of the combination with Hamersley into Pilbara Rail, and the delivery of more GE Dash 9s.

But most types are hanging on with private operators in twos and threes and are not under imminent threat, since there is a general locomotive shortage.

Peter

[M636C]

Paul,

As you say, the DL-531s (48 and 830 classes) are still operating in large numbers. The 3'6" lines of ARG in South Australia are almost exclusively operated by these units, and Silverton and Pacific National make a lot of use of them on lighter track.

The minor private operators still use a few of the DL 500 (44 or 930 classes) and the DL541 (45 and 600 classes). The DL 500G (442 and 700 classes) have a few units still working, but these units are being heavily rebuilt as GEs (GL class) using second hand equipment from ex Conrail C30-7s, and some (RL class) as EMDs with rebuilt SD50 engines and equipment. About half the original total will be rebuilt.

Of the later Comeng built units, three CE618s (Westrail NA and NB) remain, two on standard gauge and about half of the 80 class (CE615s) are still around and operable with Silverton and Pacific National.

The last of the Pilbara units, the rebuilt Robe River C636s have gone as a result of the combination with Hamersley into Pilbara Rail, and the delivery of more GE Dash 9s.

But most types are hanging on with private operators in twos and threes and are not under imminent threat, since there is a general locomotive shortage.

Peter

[Grinandbearit]

Kevin, My thoughts exactly!!!

[Grinandbearit]

Kevin, My thoughts exactly!!!

[Anonymous]

peter

I got the mod deatils done on DL541 IN autrailia. But it looks that it would not help much in controlling Yaw or lateral motion. How this tri-mount bogie controls that motion

tariq

[Anonymous]

peter

I got the mod deatils done on DL541 IN autrailia. But it looks that it would not help much in controlling Yaw or lateral motion. How this tri-mount bogie controls that motion

tariq

[M636C]

tariq,

I haven't seen the modified DL541 arrangement in a long time. In the locomotives built with this arrangement, friction dampers are applied horizontally in line between the pivot and the rubber bearers. The ride should be smoother laterally because there is no build up of force followed by a "breakaway" as occurs with the original lubricated slides. The rubber bearer can be designed to provide a given lateral restoring force, not present in the original lubricated slides. The extra vertical flexibility should assist in improving the ride as well.

Peter

[M636C]

tariq,

I haven't seen the modified DL541 arrangement in a long time. In the locomotives built with this arrangement, friction dampers are applied horizontally in line between the pivot and the rubber bearers. The ride should be smoother laterally because there is no build up of force followed by a "breakaway" as occurs with the original lubricated slides. The rubber bearer can be designed to provide a given lateral restoring force, not present in the original lubricated slides. The extra vertical flexibility should assist in improving the ride as well.

Peter

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

This thread survived longer then ALco itself

Someone needs to educate that boy. [:0] [}:)] [;)]

There are 40 year old Alcos still around and pulling. The Century line was/is a very good line of locos. The 251 engine was as good or better than the engines GE or EMD had available at that time, and even achieved better mpg than the competitors. If you think Alco closed because of a product that wasn't up to par with the competitors you are wrong. Show me a 40 year old GE diesel/electric still pulling. Look at the numbers produced and see which has a higher percentage still working.

IF you think Alco was disliked by all railroads, once again you are wrong. I quote from The American Locomotive Company A Centennial Remembrance by Richard T. Steinbrenner, "The CNW tried various EMD and GE C-C units as replacements without satisfaction. When the F-M units were retired in 1975, the C628's were reassigned to the Lake Shore Division to replace them, and they were an instant success, due to their combination of low speed lugging capability, their dynamic brakes, and their general ruggedness."

This is but one example of a dependable loco that a railroad was happy with owning. Also notice that CNW had tried the other two competitors and were unhappy with them.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

This thread survived longer then ALco itself

Someone needs to educate that boy. [:0] [}:)] [;)]

There are 40 year old Alcos still around and pulling. The Century line was/is a very good line of locos. The 251 engine was as good or better than the engines GE or EMD had available at that time, and even achieved better mpg than the competitors. If you think Alco closed because of a product that wasn't up to par with the competitors you are wrong. Show me a 40 year old GE diesel/electric still pulling. Look at the numbers produced and see which has a higher percentage still working.

IF you think Alco was disliked by all railroads, once again you are wrong. I quote from The American Locomotive Company A Centennial Remembrance by Richard T. Steinbrenner, "The CNW tried various EMD and GE C-C units as replacements without satisfaction. When the F-M units were retired in 1975, the C628's were reassigned to the Lake Shore Division to replace them, and they were an instant success, due to their combination of low speed lugging capability, their dynamic brakes, and their general ruggedness."

This is but one example of a dependable loco that a railroad was happy with owning. Also notice that CNW had tried the other two competitors and were unhappy with them.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

This thread survived longer then ALco itself

Someone needs to educate that boy. [:0] [}:)] [;)]

There are 40 year old Alcos still around and pulling. The Century line was/is a very good line of locos. The 251 engine was as good or better than the engines GE or EMD had available at that time, and even achieved better mpg than the competitors. If you think Alco closed because of a product that wasn't up to par with the competitors you are wrong. Show me a 40 year old GE diesel/electric still pulling. Look at the numbers produced and see which has a higher percentage still working.

IF you think Alco was disliked by all railroads, once again you are wrong. I quote from The American Locomotive Company A Centennial Remembrance by Richard T. Steinbrenner, "The CNW tried various EMD and GE C-C units as replacements without satisfaction. When the F-M units were retired in 1975, the C628's were reassigned to the Lake Shore Division to replace them, and they were an instant success, due to their combination of low speed lugging capability, their dynamic brakes, and their general ruggedness."

This is but one example of a dependable loco that a railroad was happy with owning. Also notice that CNW had tried the other two competitors and were unhappy with them.

I think the last post needs repeating.

A little truth for the forum ostriches. [:p]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

This thread survived longer then ALco itself

Someone needs to educate that boy. [:0] [}:)] [;)]

There are 40 year old Alcos still around and pulling. The Century line was/is a very good line of locos. The 251 engine was as good or better than the engines GE or EMD had available at that time, and even achieved better mpg than the competitors. If you think Alco closed because of a product that wasn't up to par with the competitors you are wrong. Show me a 40 year old GE diesel/electric still pulling. Look at the numbers produced and see which has a higher percentage still working.

IF you think Alco was disliked by all railroads, once again you are wrong. I quote from The American Locomotive Company A Centennial Remembrance by Richard T. Steinbrenner, "The CNW tried various EMD and GE C-C units as replacements without satisfaction. When the F-M units were retired in 1975, the C628's were reassigned to the Lake Shore Division to replace them, and they were an instant success, due to their combination of low speed lugging capability, their dynamic brakes, and their general ruggedness."

This is but one example of a dependable loco that a railroad was happy with owning. Also notice that CNW had tried the other two competitors and were unhappy with them.

I think the last post needs repeating.

A little truth for the forum ostriches. [:p]

[Anonymous]

Possibly a FAQ, but are there any dimensions, drawings, plans or anything useful to help in building an HH660? I'd like 1:29 scale.

[Anonymous]

Possibly a FAQ, but are there any dimensions, drawings, plans or anything useful to help in building an HH660? I'd like 1:29 scale.

[mersenne6]

In looking over the website dedicated to the Doyle McCormack resurrection of the ALCO PA I'm left with the impression that the PA body brought up from Mexico was just that - a body and not much else. On the same site they have pictures, without captions, showing the installation of the prime mover. Do you know if this is a situation of plugging in any old prime mover that will fit or is a case of being able to substitue an ALCO prime mover from a different series of ALCO engines because the prime mover for the PA was also used in other ALCOs?

[mersenne6]

In looking over the website dedicated to the Doyle McCormack resurrection of the ALCO PA I'm left with the impression that the PA body brought up from Mexico was just that - a body and not much else. On the same site they have pictures, without captions, showing the installation of the prime mover. Do you know if this is a situation of plugging in any old prime mover that will fit or is a case of being able to substitue an ALCO prime mover from a different series of ALCO engines because the prime mover for the PA was also used in other ALCOs?

[M636C]

mersenne 6

Yes, the PA shells that came up from Mexico were basically just that, empty shells. This was partly because thay had been stripped to provide parts for the other two units which remained in service longer and are both now in museums in Mexico.

They didn't even have truck frames! Fortunately, a pair of trucks from the contemporary and similar Fairbanks Morse Erie-built units were available (although the units themselves are all long gone.

These units were purchased from Santa Fe by Delaware and Hudson, who had Morrison Knudsen (now Motive Power Industries) rebuild them. During the rebuild they lost their 16 cylinder Alco 244 engine which was replaced by a 12 cylinder Alco 251 engine, which was the same power, 2000 HP.

Doyle McCormack is intending to restore his locomotive with an Alco 12 cylinder 251 engine, which is still reasonably common and was used in Alco C420, Montreal M420 and Bombardier HR412 models, as well as in other earlier and many export units. There will be no trouble finding one. Colt Industries would build you a new one if you had the money.

This isn't the original engine, but will be cheaper and more reliable. The engine will sound a bit different.

In fact the original Alco 16-244 was also used in the early model DL-600, Alco's first big hood unit and a competitor of sorts with the FM Trainmaster and the EMD SD24. Later DL-600B models had the more satisfactory 16-251 engine.

Most other parts were standard with other Alco and GE locomotives and would be easily found, GE752 traction motors, control equipment, and so on.

Peter

[M636C]

mersenne 6

Yes, the PA shells that came up from Mexico were basically just that, empty shells. This was partly because thay had been stripped to provide parts for the other two units which remained in service longer and are both now in museums in Mexico.

They didn't even have truck frames! Fortunately, a pair of trucks from the contemporary and similar Fairbanks Morse Erie-built units were available (although the units themselves are all long gone.

These units were purchased from Santa Fe by Delaware and Hudson, who had Morrison Knudsen (now Motive Power Industries) rebuild them. During the rebuild they lost their 16 cylinder Alco 244 engine which was replaced by a 12 cylinder Alco 251 engine, which was the same power, 2000 HP.

Doyle McCormack is intending to restore his locomotive with an Alco 12 cylinder 251 engine, which is still reasonably common and was used in Alco C420, Montreal M420 and Bombardier HR412 models, as well as in other earlier and many export units. There will be no trouble finding one. Colt Industries would build you a new one if you had the money.

This isn't the original engine, but will be cheaper and more reliable. The engine will sound a bit different.

In fact the original Alco 16-244 was also used in the early model DL-600, Alco's first big hood unit and a competitor of sorts with the FM Trainmaster and the EMD SD24. Later DL-600B models had the more satisfactory 16-251 engine.

Most other parts were standard with other Alco and GE locomotives and would be easily found, GE752 traction motors, control equipment, and so on.

Peter

[mmathu]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cris Helt

I've got a couple of questions regarding Alco. First: why were none of C&NW's high-nosed ex N&W C628s preserved? Was C&NW more interested in getting as much money as possible for scrapping or trading in the locomotives?

Is this some sort of trick question?

[mmathu]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cris Helt

I've got a couple of questions regarding Alco. First: why were none of C&NW's high-nosed ex N&W C628s preserved? Was C&NW more interested in getting as much money as possible for scrapping or trading in the locomotives?

Is this some sort of trick question?