QUOTE: Originally posted by dsktc This part of your statement is one of the dumbest things I have read on this forum. This is not 1944 and our enemy is not the ***. You are still fighting the last war. Dave QUOTE: Originally posted by LAHDPOP A couple pictures of a military train will NOT ruin the war effort. But it may very well provide a tiny piece of information to someone who wants to do us harm. Three, four, or twenty of these little pieces of information can indeed add up to give an enemy actionable intelligence concerning our capabilties abroad, or our vulnerabilities at home. Just something to think about.
QUOTE: Originally posted by LAHDPOP A couple pictures of a military train will NOT ruin the war effort. But it may very well provide a tiny piece of information to someone who wants to do us harm. Three, four, or twenty of these little pieces of information can indeed add up to give an enemy actionable intelligence concerning our capabilties abroad, or our vulnerabilities at home. Just something to think about.
QUOTE: Originally posted by dsktc This part of your statement is one of the dumbest things I have read on this forum. This is not 1944 and our enemy is not the ***. You are still fighting the last war. Dave
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon If you think this is one of the dumbest statements you have read, then: 1) you don't read too much here..and 2) you have very little knowledge of intelligence collection and should perhaps refrain from commenting on it and stick to trains.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon QUOTE: Originally posted by dsktc This part of your statement is one of the dumbest things I have read on this forum. This is not 1944 and our enemy is not the ***. You are still fighting the last war. Dave QUOTE: Originally posted by LAHDPOP A couple pictures of a military train will NOT ruin the war effort. But it may very well provide a tiny piece of information to someone who wants to do us harm. Three, four, or twenty of these little pieces of information can indeed add up to give an enemy actionable intelligence concerning our capabilties abroad, or our vulnerabilities at home. Just something to think about. If you think this is one of the dumbest statements you have read, then: 1) you don't read too much here..and 2) you have very little knowledge of intelligence collection and should perhaps refrain from commenting on it and stick to trains. Dan
QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb . What is your relationship with Jane's? [?]
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon As for 1), LMAO! Thanks, and I agree. As for 2), I'd have to agree again. The *** have nothing to do with anything. Our enemies and potential enemies are not limited to insurgents in Iraq and The Stan. Iran, North Korea, and even China have a keen interest in everything we do militarily. Can we hide it all? Hell no. Do we have to spoon feed it to them? Absolutely not.
QUOTE: Originally posted by dsktc Your assumptions were rendered obsolete by the invention and mass proliferation of cell phones with cameras. Dave QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon As for 1), LMAO! Thanks, and I agree. As for 2), I'd have to agree again. The *** have nothing to do with anything. Our enemies and potential enemies are not limited to insurgents in Iraq and The Stan. Iran, North Korea, and even China have a keen interest in everything we do militarily. Can we hide it all? Hell no. Do we have to spoon feed it to them? Absolutely not.
QUOTE: Originally posted by zugmann Sit down, Rush. We are talking about loads being transported UNCOVERED out in the OPEN being hauled by PRIVATE common carriers. And any employee can easily track said loads. If it was so vital, they'd at least toss a blue tarp over them. Or someone with a really big gun would tell me not to look. I do see plenty of warthogs flying overhead. Shall I divert my attention to the lovely ground next time?
QUOTE: Originally posted by KCMOWMAN Dear rrandb, Since you now are a member of the coveted "Citizens for Rail Security" and even though you pray that you never meet me trackside, what happens if your prayers are not answered and you happen to see me taking a picture of a military train. What will then happen, will you fulfill your obligation to save America's railroads (the BNSF anyway) and report me to the authorities? Or should I surrender to you for detention? Will you have a railfan checkpoint set up to capture me? "Your orange card please" This could be quite the manhunt! Ford Simcox Undocumented railfan, still on the loose.
QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb As the former VP of a Safe and Lock company that held the contract to change all the TS safes at the pentagon I think I know who Jane's is and have first hand knowledge of their working relationship with the Pentagon. There is a working relationship with Jane's that allows them to release some information but not all. Jane's knows they are not getting the whole picture but what is released is verifyable. You will notice they prefer to have facts and not just speculation. I sat in on a meeting with Jane's who was requesting access to plans for the next generation of safe locks( tamper and X-Ray proof). We did verify that they were to be 100% plastic that resisted X-Rays which they had figured out but no details were released untill 1 year later and the product was released comercially. What is your relationship with Jane's? [?]
QUOTE: Originally posted by KCMOWMAN QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb As the former VP of a Safe and Lock company that held the contract to change all the TS safes at the pentagon I think I know who Jane's is and have first hand knowledge of their working relationship with the Pentagon. There is a working relationship with Jane's that allows them to release some information but not all. Jane's knows they are not getting the whole picture but what is released is verifyable. You will notice they prefer to have facts and not just speculation. I sat in on a meeting with Jane's who was requesting access to plans for the next generation of safe locks( tamper and X-Ray proof). We did verify that they were to be 100% plastic that resisted X-Rays which they had figured out but no details were released untill 1 year later and the product was released comercially. What is your relationship with Jane's? The fact you have disclosed you are privy to the above information may have jepordized national security. Why would you even disclose what kind of locks in use? Janes can guess all they want, you don't have to confirm that. I'm not saying you would willingly give up information, though it seems you have, but whats to stop a terrorist reading this, from beating the stuffing out of you to extract what else they think you may know? Highly unlikely, of course. but you still gave up more than I did by taking a slide which will sit in a box only to be seen by me. Simcox
QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb As the former VP of a Safe and Lock company that held the contract to change all the TS safes at the pentagon I think I know who Jane's is and have first hand knowledge of their working relationship with the Pentagon. There is a working relationship with Jane's that allows them to release some information but not all. Jane's knows they are not getting the whole picture but what is released is verifyable. You will notice they prefer to have facts and not just speculation. I sat in on a meeting with Jane's who was requesting access to plans for the next generation of safe locks( tamper and X-Ray proof). We did verify that they were to be 100% plastic that resisted X-Rays which they had figured out but no details were released untill 1 year later and the product was released comercially. What is your relationship with Jane's?
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe Apparently, I just now have my ears on. But, thank you. All I can add to this, is forbidding photography of military trains and installations is hardly anything new--either in law or in practice. There have been greater civil liberties that have been trounced upon with a free pass from our highest court by use of a military explanation: the allien and sedition acts, American concentration camps, and the suspension of Habeas Corpus come to mind most easily. Is it necessary? I don't have the answer. Gabe
QUOTE: Originally posted by techguy57 Okay, folks! First of all I started this thread in an attempt for some informative thinking about the subject not for name-calling and self-agrandizing. Please, if you want to attack someone personally, take it somewhere else. If you think that I'm unpatriotic or anti-American for wondering what the big deal is about photographing military trains from public property, well you think what you want. I merely asked the question out of curiosity. Let's leave it at that. Bergie has enough work already. Thank you all for your input and views on the subject, especially Gabe. Mike QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe Apparently, I just now have my ears on. But, thank you. All I can add to this, is forbidding photography of military trains and installations is hardly anything new--either in law or in practice. There have been greater civil liberties that have been trounced upon with a free pass from our highest court by use of a military explanation: the allien and sedition acts, American concentration camps, and the suspension of Habeas Corpus come to mind most easily. Is it necessary? I don't have the answer. Gabe
QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe Thanks, Mike, and I think this is a good topic to discuss in an accademic manner. For instance, what are the competing concerns: (1) How does photographing a train of tanks that everyone knows is bound for the Persian Gulf hinder national security? (2) How much of a strain is it on personal freedom not to be allowed to photograph 0.000001% of all rail traffic? I think this is an interesting argument here, because--at least superficially--it seems to me that both competing concerns are fairly minor. Gabe
QUOTE: Originally posted by KCMOWMAN Every one has said the military is asking to limit photography. Just where does it say "the military" is asking? The BNSF is asking this question, with no mention of the US Government. As for radioactive trains, sure, we have pictures! wanna see them? Can't be too big a deal, accept to the tree hugger types, their movement and contents are described on the DOE site. rrandb, thanks for sharing the days when you cut keys for a living. Must have been exciting? Did you work in one of those little kiosks people can drive up to? Hi! Welcome to Ed's Key Hut, your key cut in sixty seconds or it's free! Good times....................
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