Bad train pictures

[edblysard]

Most railroad provide their crews cheat sheets, pre printed pads with all the info printed out, with blanks for the info the dispatcher has to provide.
So the part that goes,
Train ______ , lead engine#_______, has authority to occupy main track for________________at mile post #____ to Milepost#______is pretty much the crew reading back from a form, they just fill in the blanks.

Sounds like the dispatcher was telling a crew to pick up a pair of boxcars on spots 2 and 8 somewhere.
As for the flag part, it may be that a signal system was out, or a crossing system down, track repair, whatever, and the dispatcher was telling the crew to provide flag themselves through the spot, from mile post X to mile post Y.

Ed

[edblysard]

Most railroad provide their crews cheat sheets, pre printed pads with all the info printed out, with blanks for the info the dispatcher has to provide.
So the part that goes,
Train ______ , lead engine#_______, has authority to occupy main track for________________at mile post #____ to Milepost#______is pretty much the crew reading back from a form, they just fill in the blanks.

Sounds like the dispatcher was telling a crew to pick up a pair of boxcars on spots 2 and 8 somewhere.
As for the flag part, it may be that a signal system was out, or a crossing system down, track repair, whatever, and the dispatcher was telling the crew to provide flag themselves through the spot, from mile post X to mile post Y.

Ed

[tree68]

m - Don't know where you are, but in the northeast, the NORAC "Form D" is in common use. I hear the CSX NE dispatcher issuing them all the time. Here's an example:
http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Signal/norac_formd.html (Can't vouch for the rest of the site - found it on a search).

Some dispatchers will say something like "Circle Line 2", then fill in the blanks, usually reading the full line, though. Leading to something like "OPERATE IN NORTH DIRECTION ON SINGLE TRK BETWEEN BRAD AND RIVER. (They can add several more blocks to the same Form D as the track ahead clears.)

As you can see, it's a simple matter to fill in a few blanks. In fact, the regular crews probably all but have the Form D done before they call the dispatcher for it. Even if they don't, it's very easy to have it ready for the read-back as soon as the dispatcher gives his (or her) name or initials. Any field not needed is ignored. Many times the local crews ask for specific limits.

On the other hand, I've heard dispatchers that were obviously entering the info in their Form D (probably on a computer?) as they gave it to the crew.

I would have to imaging that most track warrant systems operate in a similar matter.

[tree68]

m - Don't know where you are, but in the northeast, the NORAC "Form D" is in common use. I hear the CSX NE dispatcher issuing them all the time. Here's an example:
http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Signal/norac_formd.html (Can't vouch for the rest of the site - found it on a search).

Some dispatchers will say something like "Circle Line 2", then fill in the blanks, usually reading the full line, though. Leading to something like "OPERATE IN NORTH DIRECTION ON SINGLE TRK BETWEEN BRAD AND RIVER. (They can add several more blocks to the same Form D as the track ahead clears.)

As you can see, it's a simple matter to fill in a few blanks. In fact, the regular crews probably all but have the Form D done before they call the dispatcher for it. Even if they don't, it's very easy to have it ready for the read-back as soon as the dispatcher gives his (or her) name or initials. Any field not needed is ignored. Many times the local crews ask for specific limits.

On the other hand, I've heard dispatchers that were obviously entering the info in their Form D (probably on a computer?) as they gave it to the crew.

I would have to imaging that most track warrant systems operate in a similar matter.

[CShaveRR]

I'll let someone who routinely works with track warrants handle this one for definitive answers.

Are you sure he wasn't saying "Check Box 8 and Box 20"? Track warrants have numbered items (which may vary from railroad to railroad), and if they are to apply, wou make a check mark in the little boxes in front of them. In this case, once you got to Milepost x, you'd be expected to follow the instructions contained in Boxes 8 and 20.

[CShaveRR]

I'll let someone who routinely works with track warrants handle this one for definitive answers.

Are you sure he wasn't saying "Check Box 8 and Box 20"? Track warrants have numbered items (which may vary from railroad to railroad), and if they are to apply, wou make a check mark in the little boxes in front of them. In this case, once you got to Milepost x, you'd be expected to follow the instructions contained in Boxes 8 and 20.

[Anonymous]

Just got a scanner, and having it is a blast. When the dispatcher gives orders to the crew, how can they read them back to him so fast and so well?
What is a "flag" at milepost x to y, with a speed limit? Repairs, bad track?
What is a box, like go to milepost x and pick up two boxes marked 8 and 20.
thanks,

m

[Anonymous]

Just got a scanner, and having it is a blast. When the dispatcher gives orders to the crew, how can they read them back to him so fast and so well?
What is a "flag" at milepost x to y, with a speed limit? Repairs, bad track?
What is a box, like go to milepost x and pick up two boxes marked 8 and 20.
thanks,

m

[Anonymous]

Just saw a pic of a hi hood GP-38-2. It is a N S unit leading a train. The unit is # 5117.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NSReadingline/

I hope that if you are not a member of this group that you can still see the pic.

Seeing this pic made me wonder how many hi hood units are still operating on Class 1 railroads? As a railfan I know that they still do operate on N S. I also know that some shortlines and regionals operate them. But I was curious how many are still in use on a Class 1 railroad?

Have any of our current engineers in the forums operated one recently? If so, do you like to operate them? My guess is "No", because of safety reasons. But it would be interesting to know about them and maybe hear some stories from our current engineers about them.

[Anonymous]

Just saw a pic of a hi hood GP-38-2. It is a N S unit leading a train. The unit is # 5117.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NSReadingline/

I hope that if you are not a member of this group that you can still see the pic.

Seeing this pic made me wonder how many hi hood units are still operating on Class 1 railroads? As a railfan I know that they still do operate on N S. I also know that some shortlines and regionals operate them. But I was curious how many are still in use on a Class 1 railroad?

Have any of our current engineers in the forums operated one recently? If so, do you like to operate them? My guess is "No", because of safety reasons. But it would be interesting to know about them and maybe hear some stories from our current engineers about them.

[mudchicken]

Used to be ties, now splinters held together by adobe![:D]

Seasonal Thing I guess![swg]

[mudchicken]

Used to be ties, now splinters held together by adobe![:D]

Seasonal Thing I guess![swg]

[edblysard]

Splinters in the dust?
Or splinters in the swamp!

Ed

[edblysard]

Splinters in the dust?
Or splinters in the swamp!

Ed

[mudchicken]

Tom:

That type of thing is all apples & oranges. How much manpower and machinery are you going to throw at it? How much cooperation from the operating department (trainmasters, dispatchers & Superintendents) do you get. What is a workday? What type of quality on the first pass by the gang do you want?.... Track feet or lineal feet?....good ties? (Texas Mexican/KCS/Corman just tried to lay steel last year on splinters in the dirt in high heat - ugh!)
Urban, rural or boondocks? (How many curves, road crossings and switches per mile?) Same size rail or changing the plates for larger rail too? New ballast or fouled ballast???? weather? daytime or night-time? (night work is inherently more dangerous, costs more and certainly less efficicient)

In the western US, ATSF/BNSF's Navajo Steel Gangs (Gang #1 or Gang #2) can get 16-26 strings of welded rail a day under optimal conditions. (1 string off a rail train =1440 ft. /lineal).....SP, BN, UP, MP, IC, KCS, contractors, et. al. could not hold a candle to these folks. (Unique experience?-oop!)......On a joint project several years ago on Tehachapi, the Navajos were putting down 8-10 strings of rail a day to SP's 2-3.....

Some outfits can go horribly quick, but the local gangs are out there for months fixing mistakes or cleaning up the quality issues.

Have no idea what what Amtrak, CR,NS,CSX are capable of and they exist in a much different environment....

MC[:D]

[mudchicken]

Tom:

That type of thing is all apples & oranges. How much manpower and machinery are you going to throw at it? How much cooperation from the operating department (trainmasters, dispatchers & Superintendents) do you get. What is a workday? What type of quality on the first pass by the gang do you want?.... Track feet or lineal feet?....good ties? (Texas Mexican/KCS/Corman just tried to lay steel last year on splinters in the dirt in high heat - ugh!)
Urban, rural or boondocks? (How many curves, road crossings and switches per mile?) Same size rail or changing the plates for larger rail too? New ballast or fouled ballast???? weather? daytime or night-time? (night work is inherently more dangerous, costs more and certainly less efficicient)

In the western US, ATSF/BNSF's Navajo Steel Gangs (Gang #1 or Gang #2) can get 16-26 strings of welded rail a day under optimal conditions. (1 string off a rail train =1440 ft. /lineal).....SP, BN, UP, MP, IC, KCS, contractors, et. al. could not hold a candle to these folks. (Unique experience?-oop!)......On a joint project several years ago on Tehachapi, the Navajos were putting down 8-10 strings of rail a day to SP's 2-3.....

Some outfits can go horribly quick, but the local gangs are out there for months fixing mistakes or cleaning up the quality issues.

Have no idea what what Amtrak, CR,NS,CSX are capable of and they exist in a much different environment....

MC[:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by talbanese

Speaking of rail.

How much rail can be replaced(miles) in a single day? I remember reading about the races the man had laying the rail out west by hand. How fast can todays machines work?

Anybody? Anybody?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by talbanese

Speaking of rail.

How much rail can be replaced(miles) in a single day? I remember reading about the races the man had laying the rail out west by hand. How fast can todays machines work?

Anybody? Anybody?

[mudchicken]

In Los Angeles, ATSF/BNSF Hobart Yard is located adjacent to (1) "Ski Bandini" and (2) a Gould Battery Plant....The wind sock was really handy when there was an emergency at the battery plant or when the wind came over the top of Bandini Mountain. (for those of you too young for old Johnny Carson monologues, Bandini Mountain is a constantly evolving pile of fermenting fertilizer (pleasant stuff!?) at least 35 feet tall (3-4 story building). The legendary Bandini "doo-doo" was unpleasant stuff to be around during storms or LA Smog Inversions.......With Farmer John's slaughterhouse & the rendering plants just to the west of us, what a place! During the day you got used to it and then the next day it would start all-over.....-yum!!

Fe Feathers[banghead][banghead][xx(][xx(][xx(]

[mudchicken]

In Los Angeles, ATSF/BNSF Hobart Yard is located adjacent to (1) "Ski Bandini" and (2) a Gould Battery Plant....The wind sock was really handy when there was an emergency at the battery plant or when the wind came over the top of Bandini Mountain. (for those of you too young for old Johnny Carson monologues, Bandini Mountain is a constantly evolving pile of fermenting fertilizer (pleasant stuff!?) at least 35 feet tall (3-4 story building). The legendary Bandini "doo-doo" was unpleasant stuff to be around during storms or LA Smog Inversions.......With Farmer John's slaughterhouse & the rendering plants just to the west of us, what a place! During the day you got used to it and then the next day it would start all-over.....-yum!!

Fe Feathers[banghead][banghead][xx(][xx(][xx(]

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

We appreciate our wind sock at the business end of the hump yard; it lets us know whether we need to release the cars a little faster on some days. We don't get many contrary winds around here, but when they do come, they're sometimes strong enough to send some cars back at us, out onto the lead (empty bulkhead and Center-Beam flats are the worst offenders).

Ya know, I'd like to see that sometime. I know winds can be stiff enough to blow a car off the tracks, but that's usually storm stuff... I can imagine how one would feel to see a car just released down the hump come back up hill.....

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

We appreciate our wind sock at the business end of the hump yard; it lets us know whether we need to release the cars a little faster on some days. We don't get many contrary winds around here, but when they do come, they're sometimes strong enough to send some cars back at us, out onto the lead (empty bulkhead and Center-Beam flats are the worst offenders).

Ya know, I'd like to see that sometime. I know winds can be stiff enough to blow a car off the tracks, but that's usually storm stuff... I can imagine how one would feel to see a car just released down the hump come back up hill.....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by northwesterner

When I was in the Army, I was stationed at a base that had NERVE GAS stored in concrete bunkers. We regularly had drills as if some of the agent had been released. They would actually throw smoke grenades to detemine wind direction and speed. My philosophy was to always be upwind! A windsock would have been a more elegant solution.
We had a couple of switchers on the base, in basic black (mfr unknown). In town saw lots of action on SSW (Cotton Belt) and MOP (sorry, MP). Once got stopped by three freight trains in a span of two blocks.

Sounds like Pine Bluff to me. [;)]

The P B A added sirens years ago because of public demand for a warning in case of a gas leak.


The Arkansas Railroad Museum years ago had an Army Alco that came from the Red River Arsenal near Texarkana. Some of the members purchased it. It later went to the White River Scenic RR that ran around Cotter on the old M P White River Line. It was a high hood unit made in about 1950 or 1953. I believe it was 1600hp.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by northwesterner

When I was in the Army, I was stationed at a base that had NERVE GAS stored in concrete bunkers. We regularly had drills as if some of the agent had been released. They would actually throw smoke grenades to detemine wind direction and speed. My philosophy was to always be upwind! A windsock would have been a more elegant solution.
We had a couple of switchers on the base, in basic black (mfr unknown). In town saw lots of action on SSW (Cotton Belt) and MOP (sorry, MP). Once got stopped by three freight trains in a span of two blocks.

Sounds like Pine Bluff to me. [;)]

The P B A added sirens years ago because of public demand for a warning in case of a gas leak.


The Arkansas Railroad Museum years ago had an Army Alco that came from the Red River Arsenal near Texarkana. Some of the members purchased it. It later went to the White River Scenic RR that ran around Cotter on the old M P White River Line. It was a high hood unit made in about 1950 or 1953. I believe it was 1600hp.

[CShaveRR]

We appreciate our wind sock at the business end of the hump yard; it lets us know whether we need to release the cars a little faster on some days. We don't get many contrary winds around here, but when they do come, they're sometimes strong enough to send some cars back at us, out onto the lead (empty bulkhead and Center-Beam flats are the worst offenders).

[CShaveRR]

We appreciate our wind sock at the business end of the hump yard; it lets us know whether we need to release the cars a little faster on some days. We don't get many contrary winds around here, but when they do come, they're sometimes strong enough to send some cars back at us, out onto the lead (empty bulkhead and Center-Beam flats are the worst offenders).

[northwesterner]

When I was in the Army, I was stationed at a base that had NERVE GAS stored in concrete bunkers. We regularly had drills as if some of the agent had been released. They would actually throw smoke grenades to detemine wind direction and speed. My philosophy was to always be upwind! A windsock would have been a more elegant solution.
We had a couple of switchers on the base, in basic black (mfr unknown). In town saw lots of action on SSW (Cotton Belt) and MOP (sorry, MP). Once got stopped by three freight trains in a span of two blocks.

[northwesterner]

When I was in the Army, I was stationed at a base that had NERVE GAS stored in concrete bunkers. We regularly had drills as if some of the agent had been released. They would actually throw smoke grenades to detemine wind direction and speed. My philosophy was to always be upwind! A windsock would have been a more elegant solution.
We had a couple of switchers on the base, in basic black (mfr unknown). In town saw lots of action on SSW (Cotton Belt) and MOP (sorry, MP). Once got stopped by three freight trains in a span of two blocks.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora

In the yard that I drive past frequently, there are a number of wind socks scattered around on top of light poles, etc. Why are these necessary in a train yard? Would normal wind affect much of anything at all in a yard?

--Nora

Nora [:)]

Dan sometimes does his railfanning from the air while flying. When he see the windsock he know which direction the wind is blowing and which way to properly land his aircraft. You know he might see something from the air that he wants to see from ground level, so this way he can land safely. We wouldn't want him to "quack up". [}:)] [;)]

Well running the risk of raising ire over misuse and abuse of gov't property, I have on occasion taken an extended downwind and a quick turn at pattern alttitude over the old Bangor and Aroostock facilites in Bangor Maine while doing pilot training flights at the airport there.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora

In the yard that I drive past frequently, there are a number of wind socks scattered around on top of light poles, etc. Why are these necessary in a train yard? Would normal wind affect much of anything at all in a yard?

--Nora

Nora [:)]

Dan sometimes does his railfanning from the air while flying. When he see the windsock he know which direction the wind is blowing and which way to properly land his aircraft. You know he might see something from the air that he wants to see from ground level, so this way he can land safely. We wouldn't want him to "quack up". [}:)] [;)]

Well running the risk of raising ire over misuse and abuse of gov't property, I have on occasion taken an extended downwind and a quick turn at pattern alttitude over the old Bangor and Aroostock facilites in Bangor Maine while doing pilot training flights at the airport there.