Bad train pictures

[mudchicken]

RVPR = Riverport Railroad, LLC (Old Savanna, IL Army Munitions Depot railroad)

SLGR= ? Sure that isn't SLCR (St. Louis Chain of Rocks RR), SLRR or SLGW?, No X on the end implies new railroad as opposed to lease/private owner car...

[mudchicken]

RVPR = Riverport Railroad, LLC (Old Savanna, IL Army Munitions Depot railroad)

SLGR= ? Sure that isn't SLCR (St. Louis Chain of Rocks RR), SLRR or SLGW?, No X on the end implies new railroad as opposed to lease/private owner car...

[Granny74]

When a train is under a "blue flag", can another train pass it on an adjacent track?
Bob from AZ

[Granny74]

When a train is under a "blue flag", can another train pass it on an adjacent track?
Bob from AZ

[edblysard]

Yes,
Blue flag protection is provided by the locomotive dept or the car dept when they are servicing or repairing a locomotive or a car, or laceing up air hoses, or servicing a train or locomotive.
Any equipment protected by a blue flag or flags may not be moved, or coupled into, as men are working on, under and around it.
Any track protected by a blue flag may not be entered.
The blue flag may not be removed by anyone else other than the employee who placed it there, or a member of the same craft, operating under the orders or with the permission of the employee who placed the flag.
From the GCOR, rule 5.13, section B: on main track, a blue signal must be placed at each end of the rolling equipment.
On other than main track, any manually operated switch that provides direct access must be lined against movement onto the track and secured by an effective locking device. A blue signal must be placed at or near each such switch.
In other words, on a double main track, the train under blue flag must have a blue signal at each end, and a flagman must have followed the rule for providing flag protection, by placing a red flag at least 1 mile to the rear and one mile to the front of the train.
On a siding, all switches leading into the sideing must be lined and locked to prevent entrance into the sideing, and a blue signal must be placed near them.
In our yard, the car men line and lock yard tracks being worked for air, but we can use the tracks ajacent to the "flagged" track for switching.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by nance69

When a train is under a "blue flag", can another train pass it on an adjacent track?
Bob from AZ

[edblysard]

Yes,
Blue flag protection is provided by the locomotive dept or the car dept when they are servicing or repairing a locomotive or a car, or laceing up air hoses, or servicing a train or locomotive.
Any equipment protected by a blue flag or flags may not be moved, or coupled into, as men are working on, under and around it.
Any track protected by a blue flag may not be entered.
The blue flag may not be removed by anyone else other than the employee who placed it there, or a member of the same craft, operating under the orders or with the permission of the employee who placed the flag.
From the GCOR, rule 5.13, section B: on main track, a blue signal must be placed at each end of the rolling equipment.
On other than main track, any manually operated switch that provides direct access must be lined against movement onto the track and secured by an effective locking device. A blue signal must be placed at or near each such switch.
In other words, on a double main track, the train under blue flag must have a blue signal at each end, and a flagman must have followed the rule for providing flag protection, by placing a red flag at least 1 mile to the rear and one mile to the front of the train.
On a siding, all switches leading into the sideing must be lined and locked to prevent entrance into the sideing, and a blue signal must be placed near them.
In our yard, the car men line and lock yard tracks being worked for air, but we can use the tracks ajacent to the "flagged" track for switching.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by nance69

When a train is under a "blue flag", can another train pass it on an adjacent track?
Bob from AZ

[Granny74]

Ed,Thanks for your great answer. I always enjoy your posts and learn a lot.
Bob from AZ, the 82 year old teenage railfan LOL

[Granny74]

Ed,Thanks for your great answer. I always enjoy your posts and learn a lot.
Bob from AZ, the 82 year old teenage railfan LOL

[wabash1]

Ed

One thing you didnt mention is the fact ( at least on our road) is that when a track is blue flagged and locked out the lock is not the same as a switch lock. the lock used is for that department only. that craft is the only one who has keys for that lock. so only that craft can drop their own blue flag protection. also out on the double main it would be protected also with the dispatcher who will lock out all crossover switches under a track form.. this is unusual as they would rather the car to be set out. and repaired instead of tie up the main for long periods of time.

[wabash1]

Ed

One thing you didnt mention is the fact ( at least on our road) is that when a track is blue flagged and locked out the lock is not the same as a switch lock. the lock used is for that department only. that craft is the only one who has keys for that lock. so only that craft can drop their own blue flag protection. also out on the double main it would be protected also with the dispatcher who will lock out all crossover switches under a track form.. this is unusual as they would rather the car to be set out. and repaired instead of tie up the main for long periods of time.

[edblysard]

True, our car dept's lock take a different key than any other lock.
My switch lock key wont work in it, so I cant accidently unlock a flagged track.
Simple, but effective.
Stay Frosty,
Ed
(where did you leave the mirror?)

[edblysard]

True, our car dept's lock take a different key than any other lock.
My switch lock key wont work in it, so I cant accidently unlock a flagged track.
Simple, but effective.
Stay Frosty,
Ed
(where did you leave the mirror?)

[wabash1]

where did you leave the mirror?)
--------------------

In the name of saftey so you wouldnt stick your head out the window to look at yourself and knock heads with another conductor passing the other direction doing the same thing. its in the conductors office under the lid. with a UTU sticker on it.

[wabash1]

where did you leave the mirror?)
--------------------

In the name of saftey so you wouldnt stick your head out the window to look at yourself and knock heads with another conductor passing the other direction doing the same thing. its in the conductors office under the lid. with a UTU sticker on it.

[kwboehm]

I have a question that was tripped by something I read in another thread (Chicago derailment). Do signal aspects and meaning really differ as greatly as it sounds from one railroad to the next? (Ex. yellow over yellow means one thing on BNSF but something totally different on NS) Is there not a federal standard as to signal meanings? Or do they actually mean the same thing and I just misread or misinterpreted something?

[kwboehm]

I have a question that was tripped by something I read in another thread (Chicago derailment). Do signal aspects and meaning really differ as greatly as it sounds from one railroad to the next? (Ex. yellow over yellow means one thing on BNSF but something totally different on NS) Is there not a federal standard as to signal meanings? Or do they actually mean the same thing and I just misread or misinterpreted something?

[mudchicken]

Meanings are similar, but different dependent on whose book of rules you are using.
GCOR vs. NCAR (or what ever NS and CR adopted) vs. ????, ......All vary slightly, even the railroads using the same model rules format.....You have to be qualified on that particular railroad's interpretation and use of the rule book.

[mudchicken]

Meanings are similar, but different dependent on whose book of rules you are using.
GCOR vs. NCAR (or what ever NS and CR adopted) vs. ????, ......All vary slightly, even the railroads using the same model rules format.....You have to be qualified on that particular railroad's interpretation and use of the rule book.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Because of mergers, some roads had different aspects for the same meaning. I have an old Penn Central Rules for Conducting Transportation and multiple aspects are shown for the same indication. The differences are often minor (except for PRR position light signals vs NYC color light signals) but they do exist.
There are also specialized signals for certain locations that are stated in the appropriate employee timetables. A good example would be the gyralites at Pullman Junction or the semaphores at Brighton Park.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Because of mergers, some roads had different aspects for the same meaning. I have an old Penn Central Rules for Conducting Transportation and multiple aspects are shown for the same indication. The differences are often minor (except for PRR position light signals vs NYC color light signals) but they do exist.
There are also specialized signals for certain locations that are stated in the appropriate employee timetables. A good example would be the gyralites at Pullman Junction or the semaphores at Brighton Park.

[techguy57]

Got stopped the other night by a EJ&E train which was carrying 2 open gondolas with coil loads. Any idea why these weren't in a coil car, and is this unusual (I'd not see this before)

Also thanks to mudchicken for the info!

Mike

[techguy57]

Got stopped the other night by a EJ&E train which was carrying 2 open gondolas with coil loads. Any idea why these weren't in a coil car, and is this unusual (I'd not see this before)

Also thanks to mudchicken for the info!

Mike

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Coils in a gondola might be due to unavailability of regular coil cars. It does happen occasionally with the coils loaded close to the end of the car over the truck bolsters. The earliest coil cars were gondolas with sheet metal hoods over the loads. The hoods were not attached to specific cars and it was not unusual to see a C&O gondola with hoods from DT&I and EJ&E or some other mismatch.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Coils in a gondola might be due to unavailability of regular coil cars. It does happen occasionally with the coils loaded close to the end of the car over the truck bolsters. The earliest coil cars were gondolas with sheet metal hoods over the loads. The hoods were not attached to specific cars and it was not unusual to see a C&O gondola with hoods from DT&I and EJ&E or some other mismatch.

[Anonymous]

I can't believe how a simple little question asked by Nora has grown into such fascinating reading. This is the beauty of these forums, they are not only informative reading, but entertaining as well.

[Anonymous]

I can't believe how a simple little question asked by Nora has grown into such fascinating reading. This is the beauty of these forums, they are not only informative reading, but entertaining as well.

[Nora]

When does a train have to have one of those electronic flashing whatchamacallits on the end of the train, and when does it not? I assumed they always had to have one because just about every train I've seen has had one unless it was in the yard or something. Yesterday I saw a train that just had an orange flag stuck in the coupler on the back. It was a very short train , maybe 10 cars long, and the cars were low so I thought maybe it didn't need one since they could see all the way to the end of the train. Is that it?

--Nora

[Nora]

When does a train have to have one of those electronic flashing whatchamacallits on the end of the train, and when does it not? I assumed they always had to have one because just about every train I've seen has had one unless it was in the yard or something. Yesterday I saw a train that just had an orange flag stuck in the coupler on the back. It was a very short train , maybe 10 cars long, and the cars were low so I thought maybe it didn't need one since they could see all the way to the end of the train. Is that it?

--Nora

[mudchicken]

NORA:

The flashing watchamacallit is an "end of train device" (a FRED, F______G Rear End Device, slang & excuse me very much). They have an air line pressure gauge and a red lamp designating end-of-train. FREDS can be passive/dumb or smart (a radio telemetry device). There has to be a red flag (at minimum) protecting the train during daylight hours and from an hour before dusk to an hour after dawn, a red light must be displayed. You want a telemetry device to be talking to the locomotive during an air test, otherwise its a long walk back there or a convoluted move to get somebody to read the gauge on a dumb FRED. Railroad operating rules and federal rule 49CFR218.37,49CFR218.5 and 49CFR221.13 (Sub-Par B "Marking Devices" say that stuff must be on the end of a "train". Marker of Red/Orange color ...Flashing light must be seen from 1/2 mile away on tangent by a person with 20/20 corrected vision and able to make out the silouette of a boxcar....no flag or marker for a railroad who operates ONLY one train at a time.

Sounds like you saw a roadswitcher making a move to set out another car or pick one up before traveling a longer distance in some kind of absolute block....I'm sure Ed, Ken , Wabash, LC & Co will add to this (I'm normally trying to avoid them, I want all those visual cues- the more the better)

Mudchicken

[mudchicken]

NORA:

The flashing watchamacallit is an "end of train device" (a FRED, F______G Rear End Device, slang & excuse me very much). They have an air line pressure gauge and a red lamp designating end-of-train. FREDS can be passive/dumb or smart (a radio telemetry device). There has to be a red flag (at minimum) protecting the train during daylight hours and from an hour before dusk to an hour after dawn, a red light must be displayed. You want a telemetry device to be talking to the locomotive during an air test, otherwise its a long walk back there or a convoluted move to get somebody to read the gauge on a dumb FRED. Railroad operating rules and federal rule 49CFR218.37,49CFR218.5 and 49CFR221.13 (Sub-Par B "Marking Devices" say that stuff must be on the end of a "train". Marker of Red/Orange color ...Flashing light must be seen from 1/2 mile away on tangent by a person with 20/20 corrected vision and able to make out the silouette of a boxcar....no flag or marker for a railroad who operates ONLY one train at a time.

Sounds like you saw a roadswitcher making a move to set out another car or pick one up before traveling a longer distance in some kind of absolute block....I'm sure Ed, Ken , Wabash, LC & Co will add to this (I'm normally trying to avoid them, I want all those visual cues- the more the better)

Mudchicken