Hold The Mayo: Study Says DME Cant Repay Loan

[wjstix]

Not to get into the political stuff, but since someone brought it up...I know a bit about Rochester MN (my great-grandfather was born there, delivered by Dr. Mayo - the dad of the Mayo brothers who started the clinic) and about MN politics, and I'd like to point out that for all practical purposes, there are no Democrats in Rochester!![:O] The congressional district Rochester is in has elected one very conservative Democrat to congress - all the rest from 1858 to today are/were Republicans. I don't think they've ever elected a Democrat state legislator or mayor - maybe one somewhere along the way but I wouldn't bet on it.

So please...let's not get into all the liberal-bashing and Ted Kennedy-bashing and "it's all Al Gore's fault" baloney here!![;)]

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wjstix

So please...let's not get into all the liberal-bashing and Ted Kennedy-bashing and "it's all Al Gore's fault" baloney here!![;)]

But it is Al Gore's fault... he invented the internet, remember?

(Fuzzy ducks out...)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

Its short for elevated line-CTA

Can't fight city hall...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz



What is really ironic, is that the club is located on a very busy highway, so the complaints of noise and traffic are really irrelevant. The problem is that one of the nearby residents (that moved in recently, by the way), knows somebody on the town board.

Just goes to show, you don't have to be doing anything wrong, except tick the wrong people off, to get in "trouble"

Your buddy is a perfect example of how wrong the people are who bleat "if you're not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to worry about."

[Anonymous]

While it is apparent that the DM&E is facing a lot of public opposition, is there any way that this opposition can prevent the DM&E from going through with its plans? What control does the Rochester Coalition have over the DM&E?

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by EUCLID TRAVIS

While it is apparent that the DM&E is facing a lot of public opposition, is there any way that this opposition can prevent the DM&E from going through with its plans? What control does the Rochester Coalition have over the DM&E?

Fortunately they don't have any. The only avenue they have is the court system. I am sure they will have no qualms spending lots of taxpayer money fighting a railroad .....that is already there. No additional trackage proposed, just upgrading the existing to make everything safer. And Rochester has a problem with this. Sounds like an air-tight court case to me. We should be hearing about it for the next 10 years.

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by EUCLID TRAVIS

While it is apparent that the DM&E is facing a lot of public opposition, is there any way that this opposition can prevent the DM&E from going through with its plans? What control does the Rochester Coalition have over the DM&E?

As near as I can tell they are facing opposition from one group in one town along a 600 mile proposed routing. That means the other 99% are either silent or OK with there plans. They are facing very loud and very vocal opposition from a very small group of people whos lives may or may not be adversly affected as opposed to the large number of people who lives will be improved. [2c] As always ENJOY

[zardoz]

DM&E poll almost evenly split


In the Rochester Post Bulletin's online poll Back Talk Friday, more than half of 585 people who responded said the Dakota Minnesota and Eastern Railroad should be able to proceed with reconstructing its line and running coal trains through Rochester.

In the poll, 307 respondents or 52.5 percent chose that option.

The Rochester Coalition including the city, Olmsted County and Mayo Clinic is seeking federal money to build a tunnel to keep coal traffic away from the Mayo Clinic, and 103 poll respondents, 17.6 percent, thought that was the appropriate solution. Nearly the same number, 100, or 17.1 percent said a bypass was preferable to a tunnel, and 75, 12.8 percent, said no DM&E coal trains should go through Rochester.

Unless it includes a tunnel or bypass to avoid the Mayo Clinic, the Rochester Coalition opposes the DM&E's $2.5 billion plan to rebuild its line across Minnesota and South Dakota and extend it to Wyoming's Powder River basin to haul coal to power plants in the Midwest and East.

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006605310316

[solzrules]

interesting.....

[Anonymous]

How does Rochester compare (sizewise) to the other Minnesota towns along the proposed route?

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

How does Rochester compare (sizewise) to the other Minnesota towns along the proposed route?

Going west probably one of the largest. East is another story. To the west the line is mostly going thru dirt and praire with a town here and there. There are few towns of any size as you get near the coal fields.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

Going west probably one of the largest. East is another story. To the west the line is mostly going thru dirt and praire with a town here and there. There are few towns of any size as you get near the coal fields.

Thanks. Well, just in consideration of the comments that no other towns have tried to block the DME , Maybe that is partly to do with the likelihood that the small fry towns and villages felt overmatched against the DME's resources? Like a fly on an elephant?

Whereas, Rochester, with it's relationship with Mayo, might feel more confident about making their wishes heard? Just a thought.

Some of those little towns can't even pay the local cop unless he gets out and writes enough speeding tickets. The legal fees alone required to take on an entity such as the DME might put some of those towns into insolvency.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

Going west probably one of the largest. East is another story. To the west the line is mostly going thru dirt and praire with a town here and there. There are few towns of any size as you get near the coal fields.

Thanks. Well, just in consideration of the comments that no other towns have tried to block the DME , Maybe that is partly to do with the likelihood that the small fry towns and villages felt overmatched against the DME's resources? Like a fly on an elephant?

Whereas, Rochester, with it's relationship with Mayo, might feel more confident about making their wishes heard? Just a thought.

Some of those little towns can't even pay the local cop unless he gets out and writes enough speeding tickets. The legal fees alone required to take on an entity such as the DME might put some of those towns into insolvency.

Winona MN - population 30,000+
Mankato MN - 30,000+
Owatonna MN - 20,000+
New Ulm MN - 15,000+
Brookings SD - 15,000+
Huron SD - 15,000+
Pierre/Ft. Pierre SD - 15,000+
Souix Falls SD - 100,000
Rapid City SD - 50,000
Mitchell SD - 15,000
Murphy Siding SD - 4[;)]

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal


Winona MN - population 30,000+
Mankato MN - 30,000+
Owatonna MN - 20,000+
New Ulm MN - 15,000+
Brookings SD - 15,000+
Huron SD - 15,000+
Pierre/Ft. Pierre SD - 15,000+
Souix Falls SD - 100,000
Rapid City SD - 50,000
Mitchell SD - 15,000
Murphy Siding SD - 4[;)]

[(-D][(-D] You're off by about 4. Murphy Siding is now a weed patch, about 20 miles west of the proposed "new" line south of Wasta.

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

Going west probably one of the largest. East is another story. To the west the line is mostly going thru dirt and praire with a town here and there. There are few towns of any size as you get near the coal fields.

Thanks. Well, just in consideration of the comments that no other towns have tried to block the DME , Maybe that is partly to do with the likelihood that the small fry towns and villages felt overmatched against the DME's resources? Like a fly on an elephant?

Whereas, Rochester, with it's relationship with Mayo, might feel more confident about making their wishes heard? Just a thought.

Some of those little towns can't even pay the local cop unless he gets out and writes enough speeding tickets. The legal fees alone required to take on an entity such as the DME might put some of those towns into insolvency.

Winona MN - population 30,000+
Mankato MN - 30,000+
Owatonna MN - 20,000+
New Ulm MN - 15,000+
Brookings SD - 15,000+
Huron SD - 15,000+
Pierre/Ft. Pierre SD - 15,000+
Souix Falls SD - 100,000
Rapid City SD - 50,000
Mitchell SD - 15,000
Murphy Siding SD - 4[;)]

Those towns don't sound that small to me to be intimidated by the big bad railroad. Poor things. How will they cope?

[rrandb]

Read the DME application. It will answer most of your questions. One other town is now reconsidering its early agreement to not contest. I think all towns affected had a chance to voice there concerns to STB. The STB would by law have to investigate any claims of bullying you can substantiate. [2c]

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

Read the DME application. It will answer most of your questions. One other town is now reconsidering its early agreement to not contest. I think all towns affected had a chance to voice there concerns to STB. The STB would by law have to investigate any claims of bullying you can substantiate. [2c]

A think it is a case of a few people thinking that they might be able to unilaterally re-open agreements and hold out for more concessions.

If these towns were bullied into an agreement, it would make for a great populist movie about small town America fighting off big bad corporations. (That script hasn't been played out to death before i.e. 'Roger and Me')

I am sure you're right. I think the STB would certainly hear such complaints and take those into consideration when issuing descisions on this whole affair. Unless there is proof, it is only a case of wishful thinking on the part of a few looking for a new cause to make their lives seem more worthwhile.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules

QUOTE:
Winona MN - population 30,000+
Mankato MN - 30,000+
Owatonna MN - 20,000+
New Ulm MN - 15,000+
Brookings SD - 15,000+
Huron SD - 15,000+
Pierre/Ft. Pierre SD - 15,000+
Souix Falls SD - 100,000
Rapid City SD - 50,000
Mitchell SD - 15,000
Murphy Siding SD - 4[;)]

Those towns don't sound that small to me to be intimidated by the big bad railroad. Poor things. How will they cope?

well, just for the sake of discussion, in a hypothetical scenario where any one of those towns opted to resist the DME, how much re$ource$ would you say that DME would be willing to throw at them?

I'm just pulling numbers from thin air, but I'd hazard a guess that those towns smaller than 30K would be hard pressed to come up with more than just a couple $thousand for legal fees.

So, all DME would have to do is out spend them until they exhausted their resources.

Maybe many of them simply opted to not fight a battle they (the small fry villages) couldn't afford to win?

IF SO, that is certainly a new spin on the "everybody else approved it, except Rochester" argument.

[rrandb]

You are obviously new to how an STB application works. The DME STB proposal is at there web site. If you read it it will answer most of you questions. They are not a court. It is a regulatory board that as a citizen even you could appear before.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

You are obviously new to how an STB application works. The DME STB proposal is at there web site. If you read it it will answer most of you questions. They are not a court. It is a regulatory board that as a citizen even you could appear before.

You are probably correct, still, I think it would be very unwise to make such an appeal without first having made an exhaustive search of past precedents, and making sure the appeal is framed without any self defeating flaws.


I mean isn't that what commerce lawyers do for a living?

[rrandb]

What appeal? The STB granted the extension. They are now attacking DME's federal grant money to build the railroad accourding to News Week. They have permision to build the railroad. They need to find the money. This is a public smear campain to ward off potential investors including the government by threating to delay construction with lawsuits if nesissary.

[Anonymous]

well then if you won't call the action brought by the Mayo coalition an "appeal", what would you call it then??

[n012944]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

well then if you won't call the action brought by the Mayo coalition an "appeal", what would you call it then??

a dumb waste of tax money[8D]

[Anonymous]

Ha Ha,....

There are those who argue that making the loan is an even bigger waste of taxpayer money.

I'm gonna retract my earlier attempt to be objective, it was late last night, I was tired, feeling concillatory....

It doesn't matter if you call it an appeal, a protest, an anti-railroad conspiracy (heh heh) or whatever, the game play is the same, and I think that DME could and would outspend any small fry municipality who opted to stand in their way, and the attempts to obfuscate that reality with dicey games with semantics, is BS


My bet is that the "stand" made against Schieffer and his henchmen in Rochester, is due in no small part to the resources brought to the table by coalition member Mayo.

Mayo has the deep pockets that those other small towns lacked.

Just perhaps they decided to circle the wagons there because they could afford to?

[rrandb]

If that were the case DME would go to New York and demand that there bankers defend there loans. "Mayo is keeping us from starting constrution and we may not be able to repay our loans." Except right now with the exception of the feds they have no bankers to cry to. Comercial paper will not get on board untill there is a clear track ahead. No fed loan. No railroad extension. Its Mayo that has the deepest pockets and can afford to litigate till all the coal has been mined.[B)][soapbox][2c]

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules

QUOTE:
Winona MN - population 30,000+
Mankato MN - 30,000+
Owatonna MN - 20,000+
New Ulm MN - 15,000+
Brookings SD - 15,000+
Huron SD - 15,000+
Pierre/Ft. Pierre SD - 15,000+
Souix Falls SD - 100,000
Rapid City SD - 50,000
Mitchell SD - 15,000
Murphy Siding SD - 4[;)]

Those towns don't sound that small to me to be intimidated by the big bad railroad. Poor things. How will they cope?

well, just for the sake of discussion, in a hypothetical scenario where any one of those towns opted to resist the DME, how much re$ource$ would you say that DME would be willing to throw at them?

I'm just pulling numbers from thin air, but I'd hazard a guess that those towns smaller than 30K would be hard pressed to come up with more than just a couple $thousand for legal fees.

So, all DME would have to do is out spend them until they exhausted their resources.

Maybe many of them simply opted to not fight a battle they (the small fry villages) couldn't afford to win?

IF SO, that is certainly a new spin on the "everybody else approved it, except Rochester" argument.

A yes, the exciting world of the hypothetical.

Before we spar over this, has it actually happened, or are we trying to think of every conceivable bad thing that could plague the DME's proposal?

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Ha Ha,....

There are those who argue that making the loan is an even bigger waste of taxpayer money.

I'm gonna retract my earlier attempt to be objective, it was late last night, I was tired, feeling concillatory....

It doesn't matter if you call it an appeal, a protest, an anti-railroad conspiracy (heh heh) or whatever, the game play is the same, and I think that DME could and would outspend any small fry municipality who opted to stand in their way, and the attempts to obfuscate that reality with dicey games with semantics, is BS


My bet is that the "stand" made against Schieffer and his henchmen in Rochester, is due in no small part to the resources brought to the table by coalition member Mayo.

Mayo has the deep pockets that those other small towns lacked.

Just perhaps they decided to circle the wagons there because they could afford to?

Here's the real stinker. Are they using money from a government grant to fund lawyers to raise objections? If so, then those 'deep pockets' are nothing more than the American taxpayer. Ha! We wind up screwed again while the government essentially funds a legal challenge to its own descision.

[rrandb]

Here's the deal the proposed extension has been approved. Here's the rub, There is no goverenment money yet to pay for anything. The loan has not been approved. The only govermenr money is the city of Rochester and that is very little. There is no way to know what Mayo is spending(private). Since Mayo lost at the STB they are litigating in the press(Newsweek, etc). This is crippaling DME's ability to raise private capital. No government cheese no railroad. 2.5 mil from you and me and New York will turn on the money. Thats the short version. It is much more complex. They are [|(] & [%-)]

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal


Winona MN - population 30,000+
Mankato MN - 30,000+
Owatonna MN - 20,000+
New Ulm MN - 15,000+
Brookings SD - 15,000+
Huron SD - 15,000+
Pierre/Ft. Pierre SD - 15,000+
Souix Falls SD - 100,000
Rapid City SD - 50,000
Mitchell SD - 15,000
Murphy Siding SD - 4[;)]

Dave-just a quick note: Sioux Falls and Mitchell are both about 50 miles south of the DM&E. The new PRB line will go south at Wasta and bypass Rapid City altogether.[;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules


A yes, the exciting world of the hypothetical.

Before we spar over this, has it actually happened, or are we trying to think of every conceivable bad thing that could plague the DME's proposal?

Sorta, but not to the sinister extent you put it.


I just like to evaluate as many potential variables in a given scenario as come to mind, and ,....strictly speculating, this one has some possibilities.

just trying to understand WHY so many of the small fry along the wayside had no second thoughts about blaring horns and smelly diesels forever changing the world as they have come to know it....and the possibility of -not being able to do a darn thing about it for lack of funds- struck me as a possibility