Hold The Mayo: Study Says DME Cant Repay Loan

[wallyworld]

Welcome to political hardball. Take away the funding and what have you got now? This just keeps getting more heated.

http://www.grainnet.com/info/articles.html?type=bn&ID=33563

[MP173]

This will get very interesting before it is all over.

Lets see, big energy against big health.

Who do you put your money on?

ed

[wallyworld]

DME President might be in intensive care.

[solzrules]

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....Me wonders if the report (as it was submitted by the Rochester Coalition) was completed at the behest of the Rochester Coalition? Me also wonders if this MIGHT be a conflict of interest? Perhaps biased? Certainly I wouldn't give it the credibility of a third party evaluation done at the behest of an independent organization. Plus, the report claims the loan repayment should be called into question because it is speculative? That the government should analyze this further? Seems to me that, seeing as the government ALREADY approved the loan, that they MAY have done that already. Could be wrong though.

[wallyworld]

Heres the report: Ouch.

http://www.protectrochester.com/downloads/DM&EReport.pdf

[rrandb]

This report came to the conclusion that the people that paid for it wanted it to. This is 180 degrees from the findings of the poeple who approved the loan. Since there is a real need for additional capacity from PRB. This will be a gaurenteed source of income that when completed will give us a new class 1 railroad.[2c] As always ENJOY

[tree68]

I see a lot of "we believes" and "this suggests."

One might ponder whether the clinic would fight the building of a new airport (which incidentally would bring more customers, never mind the noise) next door.

[wallyworld]

What began my interest in this subject was a question-Could great projects like the transcontinental railroad be built today? Instead of 1863, what if it would have been attempted in 2006?
Would it ever pass the NIMBY test, enviromental impact studies, political divisiveness, and it's "speculative nature?" I think not.

[Anonymous]

I'm truly very sorry to see that.

[samfp1943]

Based on the information that has been put out on this forum previously, from various media sources, and due to the "war" being waged on the part of the
" Rochester Coalition". This has got to be some boutique study, as was previously note by tree68 and wallyworld, is most likely a highly suspect study, and research tailor-made by the funder to support only the results that the people that funded this study wanted it to support.. Objectivity was not its goal, only obfuscation and self serving media hype..
You can bet the farm that this will only be an opening salvo..
Sam

[solzrules]

It truly is amazing what money can make people say.

[MP173]

I struggle with this issue.

For one, I have thought that this project was pretty 'iffy'. I didnt have much to base this feeling on except:

1. Their route structure seems inferior.
2. Free enterprise money did not flow to the project.
3. Increased competition from the region would have a tendancy to reduce certain rates. DME would have to reduce costs in order to secure the freight. Downward spiral on rates and returns.

Those feelings I had were tempered when it became obvious last summer that BN and UP were incapable of handling the needed volume coming out of PR. The best situation is to have private money handling the coal, and doing it profitably.

Now what? It appears BN and UP are ramping up their capacity issues in the corridor. Rochester, Mn seems he!! bent on not having more trains passing thru town. The electric industry wants supplies and might be getting it with the increased capacity. Leverage applied...on all sides, with DME in the middle.

I think we will find an agreement of sorts coming up between big rail and big electricity, with DME left flapping in the breeze.

Dont sell this report short. There is probably more truth to it than you believe. Look at the route maps of the railroads, look at the locations of the power plants that use the coal and then ask yourself...how is that coal going to get to market?

ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

I struggle with this issue.

3. Increased competition from the region would have a tendancy to reduce certain rates. DME would have to reduce costs in order to secure the freight. Downward spiral on rates and returns.
--<snip--
Dont sell this report short. There is probably more truth to it than you believe. Look at the route maps of the railroads, look at the locations of the power plants that use the coal and then ask yourself...how is that coal going to get to market?

ed

That is the reality of the matter, to be sure.

For DM&E to grow the needed business, the only way they can do so is to undercut the competition, price wise.

With that monumental debt load, surrendering revenue potential becomes a kiss of death.

[Anonymous]

fiendish grin,

Of course if the taxpayers just built the thing, and then operated it as an open access model, charging anyone who wanted to run a coal train over their line, EVERYONE would be happy.

(Heh heh, revenge is sweet)

[kenneo]

Reminds me a bit of the title to an "old" Carpenters record --- "We've only just begun".

i still think that Mr. Schieffer shoud tell Rochester that "...this railraod will be repaired and revitalized whether any PRB traffic goes over it or no -- whether we ever build into the PRB or no -- whether we ever build into the PRB or no."

Then he shoould tell the Mayo Clinic "--- If you wi***he DME to be located some place else, gather your money together and pay ALL of the costs of this relocation, answer all of the objections of anyone else, mitigate all items so needed. The DME does not pay one cent. The Mayo Clinic will also pay for ALL increased operating expenses incurred - forever. Be the solution -- not the problem."

Put the ball for the solution in their courts -- they are the ones causing the problems. The Environmental and Financial issues have been address and solved. The Regulatory issues have all been solved. All of the issues the City of Rochester and the Mayo Clinic have raised have been addressed and answered by the regulators. So, since they still desire to create problems, they must be ready and willing to pay for their solution.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[rrandb]

Since niether BNSF or UP are able to fulfill existng comitments to deliver on there current contracts then DME could charge a premium for a gauraunteed source of new coal. The Utilities biggest complaint is not the price to ship coal but the inability to get coal they need when they need it. Coal will be delivered on DME long after the loans have been paid off. This coal deposit will be being burned long after we are dead.[2c] As always ENJOY

[edbenton]

Remember how commisioned this study. The people in Rochestor who will stop at nothing to stop this expansion. DM&E will be able to repay the loan do to the fact that the power plants will look to them as a way to guarentee the coal delivery in that area.

[solzrules]

I always think it is neat when a local government speculates about a business's ability to repay a loan. Governments, after all, are very good at repaying any and all loans they take out from their citizens and other countries. Who else could look at the situation with such a clear track record?[:)]

[wallyworld]

Sounds like the Mayo has a lame duck advocate who has spent his ammunition.
http://www.plainsman.com/main.php?story_id=8881&page=23

[Anonymous]

OH, I dunno, ...with dumb stunt artists such as John Thune working on behalf of the railroad, every morning is like a brand new day.

I give people like Dayton credit for being willing to watchdog such soft corruption, and daring to take publicly unpopular stands on them.

[wallyworld]

Theres always two sides to the American coin. Can anybody say Credit Mobilier?

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0813974.html

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

OH, I dunno, ...with dumb stunt artists such as John Thune working on behalf of the railroad, every morning is like a brand new day.

I give people like Dayton credit for being willing to watchdog such soft corruption, and daring to take publically unpopular stands on them.

John Thune pulled a fast one, no doubt about it. (A very LEGAL fast one.)

Dayton is a putz. If his best comment is that the Mayo clinic is worth more than the whole state of South Dakota then he would better serve his client's cause by sticking all of his foot into his mouth. MAYBE this would shut him up, but most likely not. Or he could have a heaping serving of crow.

Here is a thought. Why doesn't the Mayo clinic offer a counter-proposal (i.e. SOMETHING to negotiate with?)? Instead of saying "Railroad is bad" why not say "Railroad is bad because _____________" at least they might begin to have some sort of an argument. Resisting because it is fashionable to 'fight the man' just doesn't hold up when you start looking at this objectively.

[TomDiehl]

I noticed that Dayton didn't say that the Mayo Clinic was worth more than the state of Minnesota. I don't believe that he represents the state of South Dakota in any way.

This goes beyond NIMBY, right to political pandering.

[wallyworld]

Some background on Mr Thune as covered in The New York Times. You cant tell the good guys from the bad guys without a program. Thats what I love about railroads and this forum-the six degrees of seperation applies.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/28/politics/28lobby.html?ex=1298782800&en=492c867271c16caf&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules

.


[A] (A very LEGAL fast one.)



[B]Here is a thought. Why doesn't the Mayo clinic offer a counter-proposal (i.e. SOMETHING to negotiate with?)?

[A] No one knows that better than I, why do you think I used the term softcorruption?


[B] Are you asking that question rhetorically? Or do you really not have even the faintest idea? Time is not on the side of DM&E, and Mayo et al know this.

[wallyworld]

My old gym teacher told me over and over-there wasa right way to do things and a wrong way. You can do things the wrong way but it takes longer because it goes against common sense and the results are less perdictable.
The Heartland High Speed Freight Corridor seems to be a right way.
http://columbusretrometro.typepad.com/columbus_retrometro/2006/05/heartland_corri.html

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld


The Heartland High Speed Freight Corridor seems to be a right way.
http://columbusretrometro.typepad.com/columbus_retrometro/2006/05/heartland_corri.html

Obviously "above the board", which is reassuring at least.

Whenever negotiating opponents start pulling "fast ones" there are muscles that pucker up that make any further trust seem unwise. At least in the Ohio Heartland scenario you outline, THAT doesn't seem to be an issue.


Gotta wonder about the wisdom of spending taxpayer dollars to make sending jobs overseas that much easier, which is exactly what they will be doing. But thats a seperate issue entirely [8)]

[wallyworld]

I agree that in the larger picture, the transfer of employment overseas is one of the big socio-economic problems that has yet to be addressed. I read alot of rail news here and elsewhere. Increasingly, there is example after example where public, private and governmental work out solutions to rail related issues. This DME situation has spokesmen in the public eye on either side of the issue that approach a resolution with skills any 12 year old would be capable of mustering. Statemanship seems to be a lost, quaint discarded qualification for public office. I agree that on the Mayo end, time appears to be on their side. On the DME end of things, it looks like a fatal stalemate.
In my posts, I keep harping on the need for railroads to rebuild their public image and relationship with the electorate. In the end, without the bottom line (us) viewing this industry in both a historical and real world favorable light-issues that require support will wither on the vine.

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules

.


[A] (A very LEGAL fast one.)



[B]Here is a thought. Why doesn't the Mayo clinic offer a counter-proposal (i.e. SOMETHING to negotiate with?)?

[A] No one knows that better than I, why do you think I used the term softcorruption?


[B] Are you asking that question rhetorically? Or do you really not have even the faintest idea? Time is not on the side of DM&E, and Mayo et al know this.

Yes, 'twas a rhetorical question. I am sure that the Mayo is holding out for the midterm elections. If the dems take back the house or the senate then suddenly everything gets stickier because the party that "watches out for the little guy" will be back in office. Then all those little people (farmers and such) can go to hell so we can look out for the Mayo clinic and their interests. What is more important? A railroad that provides competitive avenues to market for agriculture and industry or a glorified hospital (what is really sad is that both can exist - all this bickering isn't really necessary)? Milwaukee made that descision a long time ago, and now they wonder why there is no industry left here. We got lots of hospitals, though. At least the legions of the unemployed can have great emergency room care.

[Anonymous]

Yawn.....

This one's easy. Have the railroad people commission a study that shows taxpayer money is wasted by the Mayo. Tit for tat. Once the Mayo is threatened with an audit for it's use of federal funds, they'll shut up.