Railfanning With High Gas Prices -- SMART START--What it is and what it does.

[vsmith]

Some thoughts and personal observations on high gas prices...

Reposted from another forum:

Just an aside, last night on the local news, featured a story of Europeans visiting the US and laughing at all the whining about high gas prices, to them these prices are downright cheap in comparison. So much so that one of the interviewies was driving Route 66, complete with big American muscle car, and grinning that it only cost him $300 in gas so far. I think the biggest problem is that we've ignored our dependency on oil for so long that we now are having to face the dilema of that dependancy.

When asked what Americans can do to about these high gas prices, one interviewie summed it up nicely, "buy smaller cars"

To me this is the crux of the problem, we are spoiled absolutely rotten when it comes to our cars. I grew up in the 70's when all cars were smaller, and the then typical SUV was the now "small" Jeep Cherokee. We all drove smaller cars, I drove a V-dub for close to 10 years, a Civic after that and a Samurai for 10 years after that, guess what, I got by fine. My current truck (Frontier Crew) is the biggest thing I've ever owned, and I'm seriously considering trading it in for something more affordable. I like my truck but at 20 mpg and a $50 fill up, maybe its time for ME to make a positive change and get a PT cruiser or a Scion Xb. I can still carry most of the stuff I currently use the truck for, get better milage, and save some $.

To me, these high prices are a combination of a jittery world oil market thanks to the middle east situation, a limited refining capacity, and increased world demand for this limited supply. Now the one constant in this that will not go away no matter how much we cry is the last one, India and China are using more oil with each year, and that is not going away. Maybe we can build more refineries, yeah, they'll be up and running in 10 YEARS! I doubt more than one or two would be built becasue why would the oil companies spend any money to make their bottom line smaller? Its in their own best interests to keep a strangle hold on supply and keep their profit margins in the very black for as long as they can. So they dig up Anwar, so what?, thats 3-5 years away even if they started tommorow, and it would STILL be stuck in the refining bottleneck and prices would STILL be high due to the increasing world demand of a still limited supply of refined product. Most comment I've heard is that, yes. oil prices are high, but so is supply of crude. Its the other jittery stuff keeping prices way up there, not crude avalabilty.

There are options out there. Dont like putting $100 in gas in that Hummer H2 every week, well you were stupid enough to buy it in the first place, so trade it in (You'll still get a few bucks for it, dealers are giving minimum Bluebook for them (which is nothing) out here) and buy something smaller (and more reliable). In the market for a new vehicle? Dont buy a Toyota Tundra, buy a Tacoma. Dont buy that Ford Exploder, buy the Ford Escape. Get the idea?

Want ultra high milage? Prius, Civic, Scion Xa, Focus, Aveo.

Want cool + milage? PT Cruiser, HHR, Scion Xb.

Need a crewcab pickup truck? Frontier, Tacoma, Colorado, Durango

All get at least 20mph hwy or better. To me, theres no real excuse for most of the big giant trucks and SUVs out there (dont tell me about your boat/horse trailer/camper/job requirements yadayada--I said "most"), all could be easily downsized to a smaller more efficient vehicle with no real loss of comfort or performance. Its all getting over this stupid notion of entitlement, that somehow its our god-given right ot drive giant cars and pay nothing for gas, no it isnt, wake up and smell the coffee!

I FULLY expect to be paying $4 a gallon before this summers end. And will be doing so again next summer, and get used to it, the cheap gas fueled days of wine and roses are a long GONER! Whining about it will do this: Zip, Nada, Nil, Nyet, Nuthin'. So the sooner we all accept that and make changes on our own, the less painfull it will be for all of us.

My point is that if you knowingly buy a car that gets crappy milage, dont whine about it. Like me and my truck, I knew it was a gas-hog when I bought it, and we've had high prices in the past so its not like you were'nt forewarned that gas prices could go thru the roof again. Difference this time, is that they won't come down much again.

Now as to effect on railfanning:

Alot of us are going to have to stratigize our outings. I for one always try to combine outings. If I'm going to one of my favorite sites, I'll try to do any chores or stops (OHS, Sav-on, Home Despot) I can along the way, and while I'm watching or waiting, I don't sit with the engine idleing anymore. If I'm going to somewhere and can sneak in some trainspotting along the way I'll do that also. I'm also seriously considering trading in my truck for a more fuel efficient vehicle, a PT Cruiser or a Scion Xb, both would allow me to carry all the stuff I currently move around in my truck while still giving me a greater savings in gas cost. Its up to us to make things work for ourselves, waiting for the world change in your favor will get you nowhere. So I'll make the changes I can that work for me. I dont plan on stopping what I enjoy doing just because gas prices go up and down, but I can make descisions that will benifit me.

PS Note there are no intentional Political comments, blame, fingerpointing, or flaming, in any of the above commentary, j ust viewpoints on the real world things affecting our daily lives, and how we are the masters of our own destinies, and some small things we can do ourselves to deal with these real world affects of the world we live..[:D]

Welcome to the 21st Century Boys and Girls! Not what we expected is it?[;)]

[germanium]

It is a simple fact that the amount of oil on the planet is limited, therefore ways have to be found to circumvent this. There seems to be a belated recognition of this in some quarters, hence the growth of interest in light rail/rapid transit systems. How do we accomodate those on limited incomes who are hurt by this ???? This pertinent comment I feel sums it up -

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes
The current prices are hurting many people, some of which are having to choose between food and gasoline, or medicine and gasoline.

This is something that politicians collectively have to resolve, without pushing any particular agenda. Hopefully this might mean an increase in rail traffic and railways, lots of lovely railfanning, drool, drool !!!!!
Steam making a comeback ????

[wallyworld]

jhhtrainsplains,

I too am considering that perhaps an Amtrak trip is is my future travel plans. When I began to seriously think about this trip, it dawned on me that the price of oil will eventually increase the cost of a ticket. I think the earlier we book it the cheaper the trip will be.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

Are we still in a railroading forum? I've yet to see anything in this thread that deals with railroading or the activity of railfanning.

The reason I mention this is because this too will most likely lead down the road of political discussion.

Bergie

If it does so then please get rid of the post and the poster and not the thread. Please, please, please. It is generally the same people who inject politics into such a thread.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

Bergie
The link between being a railfan and the cost of gasoline is very real to me as I have had to cancel both trips to IRM as well as a planned visit to Pennsylvania to Strasburg, The National Toy Train Museum and the RR Museum of Pennsylvania. I see no evidence of overtly political content here.Respectfully I dont think its a realistic worldview to place an imaginary division point between the cost of oil and being a railfan and then imply there is no linkage between the two. Whether it is recognized or not, the cost of gasoline does impact my activities and consequently those museums, hotels, tourist lines that depend on my discretionary spending and ability to get where I am going. I think that, looking on the amount of posts, is a big issue to your readers as well as users of this forum. I hope you reconsider your views on this.

The locked thread was very valid until the last few pages when a few members started into the political area. If you actaully read the previous thread then you will agree.

Remember there were 4 or 5 other "gas" thread during the last year but none of them addressed railroading or the price of diesel and how it effected the railroads, my previous thread did that and more. The current price of oil does affect the railroads as fuel and labor costs are the two biggest costs the railroad faces. It basically effects everything in this country and many other countries around the world.

I have stated that the price of gas does effect my railfanning. I know it does some others too. If any one thing good does come of it, I hope it is the increase of passengers for Amtrak and VIA.

Because of my lack of vacation days this year I can not take an Amtrak trip. However, I do hope to do so in 2007. The last reports I have seen do indicate an increase in overall Amtrak ridership. I would imagine this in part is due to the current price of oil.

[csmith9474]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BurlingtonJohn

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

Are we still in a railroading forum? I've yet to see anything in this thread that deals with railroading or the activity of railfanning.

The reason I mention this is because this too will most likely lead down the road of political discussion.

Bergie

I had hoped to make several major railfan related road trips this summer from northeast Missouri ... one to Colorado (Caboose Hobbies & the Colorado RR Museum), one to Texas (Age of Steam RR Musem in Dallas and to photograph certain CB&Q/FW&D steam locomotives) and the other to northern Minnesota, following the former CB&Q main from Illinois to the Twin Cities.

Unless prices come down significantly, I will stick close to home.

Regards,
Burlington John


Until

Heck, Caboose Hobbies and the Colorado Railroad Museum are only about an hour away from me, but I now have take gas into consideration.

[wallyworld]

Bergie
The link between being a railfan and the cost of gasoline is very real to me as I have had to cancel both trips to IRM as well as a planned visit to Pennsylvania to Strasburg, The National Toy Train Museum and the RR Museum of Pennsylvania. I see no evidence of overtly political content here.Respectfully I dont think its a realistic worldview to place an imaginary division point between the cost of oil and being a railfan and then imply there is no linkage between the two. Whether it is recognized or not, the cost of gasoline does impact my activities and consequently those museums, hotels, tourist lines that depend on my discretionary spending and ability to get where I am going. I think that, looking on the amount of posts, is a big issue to your readers as well as users of this forum. I hope you reconsider your views on this.

[BurlingtonJohn]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bergie

Are we still in a railroading forum? I've yet to see anything in this thread that deals with railroading or the activity of railfanning.

The reason I mention this is because this too will most likely lead down the road of political discussion.

Bergie

I had hoped to make several major railfan related road trips this summer from northeast Missouri ... one to Colorado (Caboose Hobbies & the Colorado RR Museum), one to Texas (Age of Steam RR Musem in Dallas and to photograph certain CB&Q/FW&D steam locomotives) and the other to northern Minnesota, following the former CB&Q main from Illinois to the Twin Cities.

Unless prices come down significantly, I will stick close to home.

Regards,
Burlington John

[csmith9474]

QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

Actually hopefully u all are aware that our gas price is still quite cheap when compared with other countries? In the UK they pay $6.00 per gallon. Also if you say gas prices are up $0.70 per gallon from last year that means if you drive say 40 miles per day to commute or 200 miles per week & your car averages 22MPG you are using 9 gallons per week & paying $6.30 per week more then you paid last year for the same gasoline. If you compute that to a yearly amount that is like only $300.00 more per year for you gas from last year. Now if you factor in the trickle down effect that will be coming then naturally that yearly increase will spike a bit.

The prices in the UK are so high because of the taxation, not prices set by the "oil companies".

As far as the effect on railfanning for me, I have taken to strapping on the Camel Back and walking along one of the trails in Colorado Springs that parallel the UP/BNSF joint line. I guess it is a healthier way to persue the hobby anyhow.

[Bergie]

Are we still in a railroading forum? I've yet to see anything in this thread that deals with railroading or the activity of railfanning.

The reason I mention this is because this too will most likely lead down the road of political discussion.

Bergie

[blhanel]

I rode my bicycle to work this morning in order to avoid filling the empty tank on one of our two vehicles. Probably shed a pound or two in the process. I need to do that more often, especially if I ever want to challenge Carl on the yearly bicycle mileage total.[:D]

[spbed]

Actually hopefully u all are aware that our gas price is still quite cheap when compared with other countries? In the UK they pay $6.00 per gallon. Also if you say gas prices are up $0.70 per gallon from last year that means if you drive say 40 miles per day to commute or 200 miles per week & your car averages 22MPG you are using 9 gallons per week & paying $6.30 per week more then you paid last year for the same gasoline. If you compute that to a yearly amount that is like only $300.00 more per year for you gas from last year. Now if you factor in the trickle down effect that will be coming then naturally that yearly increase will spike a bit.

[K. P. Harrier]

The link doesn't show the places I usually patronize.

[Anonymous]

Here is a link to to previous thread, which was locked. It was locked because a few forum member began talking wreckless politics. Please keep political comments to yourself in this thread.

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13781

Notice that the original thread was started in March of 2004 with gas prices at that time being $1.69 for regular unleaded. We are now currently about $1.30 over the price from just 2 years ago.

If you read that thread you will see where the $3.00 a gallon was predicted long before last summer. You will also read that the oil companies have already (back in 2004) set a target for $5.00 a gallon. I don't think we will see 5 buck a gallon gas this summer, however, I can see it going well above the current 3 bucks a gallon maybe all the way to $4.00.

The previous thread also discussed how the oil prices affected railroads. We also discussed alternative fuel methods.

We as a country need to do something NOW to begin to lessen our dependence on foreign oil We import 2/3 of the oil we consume.

[Anonymous]

Gee! Thanks for the LINK! It rocks.

Although it only shows a few cents differents in my area.

Im sorry that other thread went badly, I thought maybe just mabye we can work it properly without the trouble. But oh well.

Be safe out there.

[Modelcar]

...I watched the President's speech yesterday regarding his several plans in an attempt to get gasoline prices under control or soften them a bit....and requested help from several areas, etc....I then noted no more than 2 hrs. later here in our big town of Muncie, the price at several locations RAISED 15 cents plus....Maybe our local oil Co's didn't get the word....

[Anonymous]

I read today in Discover mag. that a study from the 1998 International Conference for Technology Assessment determined if no energy subsidies were in place, gasoline at that time would have been priced in the $15 per gallon range at the pump.

If this assessment is reasonably true, then I guess complaining about today's prices is of little merit. If these incentives didn't exist, we'd be living in a different world. Maybe rail would be living high on the hog.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the link.

[Anonymous]

Since a few forum member (usually the same ones no less) managed to drag down yet another good thread and get it locked, I am starting this one. We are discussing railfanning in today's world of high priced gasoline, and also what the railroads are doing to curtail oil/fuel useage.  Please keep your stupid politics to yourself ! ! !

I will edit this one and give a link to the last one so you might see where this thread got its start and some of the predictions (which did come true) about the future of gasoline prices. If you read the first 5 pages it will give you a good idea of how valid the previous thread was. It originally also included discussions of dieself fuel and what the railroads were doing to try to lessen their use of diesel fuel. At first it was an interesting thread and I learned some things from it. During its last few days a few posters came in and started talking political trash which ultimately got the thread locked. The thread was over 1 1/2 years old and doing well before it was locked.

As many of you know the President is starting a formal inquiry into the possibility of the oil companies using today's economy to try and boost oil company profits and take advantage of us--the consumer. He is also releasing some of the oil reserves to combat the current shortage.

Our gas prices are below $3 a gallon for the cheap grades and just over $3 for the premium grades. The current prices are hurting many people, some of which are having to choose between food and gasoline, or medicine and gasoline.

AND as promised, here is a Fuel Locator. Just follow the link and type in your zip code and it will show you a map showing the lowest to the highest prices of gasoline in your area.

http://autos.msn.com/everyday/gasstations.aspx?zip=&src=Netx

They do try and update it but it may be just a little behind as stations may suddendly change their prices.