QUOTE: Originally posted by Kevin C. Smith QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Milwaukee had 76% of Port of Seattle traffic, 60% of Port of Tacoma, and 23% of overall Washington State traffic compared to Union Pacific's 15%. Milwaukee's Kansas City blocking from the Pacific Northwest got to Kansas City faster than BN's, even though BN had the shorter route to Kansas City. Best regards, Michael Sol Despite the MILW's preponderance of traffic from Seattle & Tacoma, the smaller share of the total Washington state has me curious. Was this because NP and maybe GN had more/more productive branch lines to draw traffic from outside the port cities? Or were there enough other urban areas that the GN/NP served that the MILW didn't? My ORG's show a lot of NP lines in Washington State, but that doesn't mean a lot of traffic.
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Milwaukee had 76% of Port of Seattle traffic, 60% of Port of Tacoma, and 23% of overall Washington State traffic compared to Union Pacific's 15%. Milwaukee's Kansas City blocking from the Pacific Northwest got to Kansas City faster than BN's, even though BN had the shorter route to Kansas City. Best regards, Michael Sol
QUOTE: Originally posted by Kevin C. Smith Since the PCE was the "last man in" to Sea/Tac area, how long did it take for the MILW to gain that lion's share of the traffic?
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal The historic and current trend regarding PNW westbound intermodal is that it's always been light. Mostly auto. Most PNW westbound has been and is still PR export stuff, while import intermodal dominates eastbound. LA and SoCal's a different story, lot's of domestic westbound intermodal aka Santa Fe. Hmmm, Ken should know this.........
QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules QUOTE: Originally posted by erikem QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo My dad was born in Terry, MT, and grew up there and told me many "yarns" about the MILW during the 1920's. Michael Sol's father and grandfather worked for the MILW, also. Interesting - my dad was born in Miles City, but my Aunt and older uncle were born in Terry - my grand father's first job in the US was helping his brother-in-law Bernie Kempton with the horse teams used for grading the PCE through Terry. Last time i was in Terry was for a family reunion - staying of course at the Kempton Hotel. Have you seen a copy of "Wheels across Prairie County" put out by the Prairie County Historical society ca 1970? Never heard of it. What is it about?
QUOTE: Originally posted by erikem QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo My dad was born in Terry, MT, and grew up there and told me many "yarns" about the MILW during the 1920's. Michael Sol's father and grandfather worked for the MILW, also. Interesting - my dad was born in Miles City, but my Aunt and older uncle were born in Terry - my grand father's first job in the US was helping his brother-in-law Bernie Kempton with the horse teams used for grading the PCE through Terry. Last time i was in Terry was for a family reunion - staying of course at the Kempton Hotel. Have you seen a copy of "Wheels across Prairie County" put out by the Prairie County Historical society ca 1970?
QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo My dad was born in Terry, MT, and grew up there and told me many "yarns" about the MILW during the 1920's. Michael Sol's father and grandfather worked for the MILW, also.
QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelfdl I've been following this thread since the beginning...valid arguements all around... BUT...Of the major contributors to this thread... How many worked for MILW... Where in the company.... If not, where is your info coming from???? Just to clear things up for us non-MILW people.... Books, my friend. Books and these threads. But mostly books.
QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelfdl I've been following this thread since the beginning...valid arguements all around... BUT...Of the major contributors to this thread... How many worked for MILW... Where in the company.... If not, where is your info coming from???? Just to clear things up for us non-MILW people....
QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo Originally posted by rebelfdl I've been following this thread since the beginning...valid arguements all around... BUT...Of the major contributors to this thread... How many worked for MILW... Where in the company.... If not, where is your info coming from???? Just to clear things up for us non-MILW people.... I can only speak for myself, but I worked WITH the MILW at Portland. Michael Sol and Randy Stahl did work for the MILW. I had a job offer from the MILW in the early 1970's and did not accept. The reasons, however, had nothing to do with the Company. My dad was born in Terry, MT, and grew up there and told me many "yarns" about the MILW during the 1920's. Michael Sol's father and grandfather worked for the MILW, also. Well, that helps explain his emotion which I'm convinced is excessive and actually crosses the border of irrationality. What did Mr. Sol do for the old MILW? BTW, I myself worked for a forwarder, the Illinois Central Gulf (I left as Asst. Director Intermodal Market Development and Pricing), and RoadRailer. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Friday, May 19, 2006 7:31 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelfdl I've been following this thread since the beginning...valid arguements all around... BUT...Of the major contributors to this thread... How many worked for MILW... Where in the company.... If not, where is your info coming from???? Just to clear things up for us non-MILW people.... I can only speak for myself, but I worked WITH the MILW at Portland. Michael Sol and Randy Stahl did work for the MILW. I had a job offer from the MILW in the early 1970's and did not accept. The reasons, however, had nothing to do with the Company. My dad was born in Terry, MT, and grew up there and told me many "yarns" about the MILW during the 1920's. Michael Sol's father and grandfather worked for the MILW, also. Well, that helps explain his emotion which I'm convinced is excessive and actually crosses the border of irrationality. I mean Sol actually believes there was minimal "westbound intermodal" in the 1970's. Ask him for a source on that - he has no reply. He can't reply, because stuff like that is not true. He made it up to fit into his contrived version of reality. The BN started Intermodal train #3, from Chicago to Seattle in 1972. The UP was also running decidated westbound IM service from Chicago to the PNW by the time I started working for a Freight Forwarder in Chicago in 1975. The MILW had no dedicate transcon IM service. They were getting left beind in the railroads' growth market. And I'm still waiting on a phone number Sol said he'd provide to back up one of his emotional claims. BTW, I myself worked for that forwarder, the Illinois Central Gulf (I left as Asst. Director Intermodal Market Development and Pricing), and RoadRailer. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, May 19, 2006 3:41 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelfdl I've been following this thread since the beginning...valid arguements all around... BUT...Of the major contributors to this thread... How many worked for MILW... Where in the company.... If not, where is your info coming from???? Just to clear things up for us non-MILW people.... I can only speak for myself, but I worked WITH the MILW at Portland. Michael Sol and Randy Stahl did work for the MILW. I had a job offer from the MILW in the early 1970's and did not accept. The reasons, however, had nothing to do with the Company. My dad was born in Terry, MT, and grew up there and told me many "yarns" about the MILW during the 1920's. Michael Sol's father and grandfather worked for the MILW, also. Eric Reply Kevin C. Smith Member sinceDecember 2005 From: MP 32.8 769 posts Posted by Kevin C. Smith on Friday, May 19, 2006 3:35 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo (NOT MR - that is the McCloud River)... Thanks for the reminder! I can't believe that there used to be so many reporting marks to keep track of-or that I used to know them (at least the Class I's). Oh, the world has changed, indeed... "Look at those high cars roll-finest sight in the world." Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, May 19, 2006 3:28 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by CMSTPP I like to pronounce it....... Erie lack-a-money!!!![:D][:P][(-D] This is the only thing I know about the Erie Lakawanna. This will be interesting. James OK guys, author a new thred for the "E-L" BTW, a good part of the EL is still around, but when CONRAIL was made, EL became a part of it by law, and CR abandoned bits and parts that did not fit their business model. Some "abandoned" parts have been returned to service. Eric Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, May 19, 2006 3:22 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Kevin C. Smith QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol It is true the PCE was remarkably compact -- not a lot of little branch lines wandering all over, and the ones such as Moses Lake were suprisingly productive. But that was the point. The PCE basically shot from the Twin Cities into the ports at Tacoma and Seattle, then Portland. That was 1770 miles of long haul, 1,916 including Portland. Add in the Louisville traffic and there is a 2600 mile line haul. I seem to recall-in the dark recesses of my faulty memory-the TRAINS "Professional Iconoclast" suggested that two railroads that would work best for his proposed integral train system to bring Pacific Rim traffic to population centers in the east would be the MR and Erie. The Milwaukee Road because it was one of the transcons that ran through to Chicago, so there would be only the Chicago terminal interchange and both railroads had minimal branchlines compared to long haul mains to help eliminate rehandling and delays...FWIW Your FWIW is spot on. It has been not noted (to my knowledge) that the logical merger combination would have been the MILW (NOT MR - that is the McCloud River) and the EL, even though CNW was not all that bad a choice. EL terminated in the New Jersey port area across from Manhatten and contained at least two TOFC terminals. There were only two natural land bridge routes that I know of that could have operated direct - no rubber I/C - between the Pacific Northwest and the East -- MILW (Portland, Tacoma, Seattle) via Chicago to NJ via EL and MILW,Chicago, GTW, CN, CNE to Halifax. Not even CN single line from Vancouver was the equal. Add in the Louisville connection and through the SOU you have direct access to most of the South. What an opportunity --- wasted. Eric Reply Kevin C. Smith Member sinceDecember 2005 From: MP 32.8 769 posts Posted by Kevin C. Smith on Friday, May 19, 2006 2:53 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Milwaukee had 76% of Port of Seattle traffic, 60% of Port of Tacoma, and 23% of overall Washington State traffic compared to Union Pacific's 15%. Milwaukee's Kansas City blocking from the Pacific Northwest got to Kansas City faster than BN's, even though BN had the shorter route to Kansas City. Best regards, Michael Sol Fascinating-I had no idea. A couple of questions come to my mind... Where ARE those cars keys (a perennial problem) of mine? Despite the MILW's preponderance of traffic from Seattle & Tacoma, the smaller share of the total Washington state has me curious. Was this because NP and maybe GN had more/more productive branch lines to draw traffic from outside the port cities? Or were there enough other urban areas that the GN/NP served that the MILW didn't? My ORG's show a lot of NP lines in Washington State, but that doesn't mean a lot of traffic. Since the PCE was the "last man in" to Sea/Tac area, how long did it take for the MILW to gain that lion's share of the traffic? "Look at those high cars roll-finest sight in the world." Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 19, 2006 2:43 AM I've been following this thread since the beginning...valid arguements all around... BUT...Of the major contributors to this thread... How many worked for MILW... Where in the company.... If not, where is your info coming from???? Just to clear things up for us non-MILW people.... Reply Edit Kevin C. Smith Member sinceDecember 2005 From: MP 32.8 769 posts Posted by Kevin C. Smith on Friday, May 19, 2006 2:37 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173 Hey....lets talk Erie Lackawanna. ed Actually, if anyone wants to start that thread, please do! Minus the (sometimes excess) passion on this thread, I have learned WAY more about the CMStP&P and PCE than I had absorbed over the past years since its demise. I'd be more than happy to learn as much about E-L or, specifically the Weary Erie. All I can say that I know (and I've learned to temper that by saying it may not be so) is the supposed Wall Street maxim, "There are three certainties in this world-death, taxes and no dividends on Erie common." I'll be anxiously awaiting the new thread, "What happened to the Erie?" Or Erie Lackawanna... "Look at those high cars roll-finest sight in the world." Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 18, 2006 11:19 PM Reply Edit CMSTPP Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Along the old Milwaukee Road. 1,152 posts Posted by CMSTPP on Thursday, May 18, 2006 9:47 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Yup!!! When I first heard that I didn't know what to think at the time except laughter. It would be interesting to know what exactly happened to them. James The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm Reply solzrules Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: SE Wisconsin 1,181 posts Posted by solzrules on Thursday, May 18, 2006 9:45 PM [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in..... Reply CMSTPP Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Along the old Milwaukee Road. 1,152 posts Posted by CMSTPP on Thursday, May 18, 2006 9:43 PM I like to pronounce it....... Erie lack-a-money!!!![:D][:P][(-D] This is the only thing I know about the Erie Lakawanna. This will be interesting. James The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm Reply solzrules Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: SE Wisconsin 1,181 posts Posted by solzrules on Thursday, May 18, 2006 9:36 PM Did the Erie Lackawanna also abandon most of its trackage due to corporate mismanagement, poor maintenance, and illicit competition brought on by the over-regulation of the ICC????[(-D] Sorry. It just sounded funny. Was the Erie Lackawanna a big road or no? I don't know much about it. You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in..... Reply greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:08 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173 Hey....lets talk Erie Lackawanna. ed Did Stanley For Example work there too?! "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply solzrules Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: SE Wisconsin 1,181 posts Posted by solzrules on Thursday, May 18, 2006 6:08 PM Nice pictures! Sometimes it is the best way to relive history. You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in..... Reply MP173 Member sinceMay 2004 From: Valparaiso, In 5,921 posts Posted by MP173 on Thursday, May 18, 2006 6:08 PM Hey....lets talk Erie Lackawanna. ed Reply CMSTPP Member sinceAugust 2005 From: Along the old Milwaukee Road. 1,152 posts Posted by CMSTPP on Thursday, May 18, 2006 5:54 PM All right, here they are. This one I did a couple of years ago and I still think it looks good. This would be an EF-5, the four set of box cabs all four units the same size. This I did last summer and both sets are EF-3s. This one turned out the best. You can tell how better I have gotten just by looking at the this one. At the moment I am working a new picture. It shows Amtrak F40phs coming out of Chicago's Union station. This one is going to be pretty cool. Hopefully this starts something new...???....... James The Milwaukee Road From Miles City, Montana, to Avery, Idaho. The Mighty Milwaukee's Rocky Mountain Division. Visit: http://www.sd45.com/milwaukeeroad/index.htm Reply solzrules Member sinceJanuary 2006 From: SE Wisconsin 1,181 posts Posted by solzrules on Thursday, May 18, 2006 3:11 PM Geeze guys! I just liked the engines. I was still in diapers when this happened. I can see that 29 years don't change a thing. You think this is bad? Just wait until inflation kicks in..... Reply « First«10111213141516»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo Originally posted by rebelfdl I've been following this thread since the beginning...valid arguements all around... BUT...Of the major contributors to this thread... How many worked for MILW... Where in the company.... If not, where is your info coming from???? Just to clear things up for us non-MILW people.... I can only speak for myself, but I worked WITH the MILW at Portland. Michael Sol and Randy Stahl did work for the MILW. I had a job offer from the MILW in the early 1970's and did not accept. The reasons, however, had nothing to do with the Company. My dad was born in Terry, MT, and grew up there and told me many "yarns" about the MILW during the 1920's. Michael Sol's father and grandfather worked for the MILW, also.
Originally posted by rebelfdl I've been following this thread since the beginning...valid arguements all around... BUT...Of the major contributors to this thread... How many worked for MILW... Where in the company.... If not, where is your info coming from???? Just to clear things up for us non-MILW people....
QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo QUOTE: Originally posted by rebelfdl I've been following this thread since the beginning...valid arguements all around... BUT...Of the major contributors to this thread... How many worked for MILW... Where in the company.... If not, where is your info coming from???? Just to clear things up for us non-MILW people.... I can only speak for myself, but I worked WITH the MILW at Portland. Michael Sol and Randy Stahl did work for the MILW. I had a job offer from the MILW in the early 1970's and did not accept. The reasons, however, had nothing to do with the Company. My dad was born in Terry, MT, and grew up there and told me many "yarns" about the MILW during the 1920's. Michael Sol's father and grandfather worked for the MILW, also.
QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo (NOT MR - that is the McCloud River)...
QUOTE: Originally posted by CMSTPP I like to pronounce it....... Erie lack-a-money!!!![:D][:P][(-D] This is the only thing I know about the Erie Lakawanna. This will be interesting. James
QUOTE: Originally posted by Kevin C. Smith QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol It is true the PCE was remarkably compact -- not a lot of little branch lines wandering all over, and the ones such as Moses Lake were suprisingly productive. But that was the point. The PCE basically shot from the Twin Cities into the ports at Tacoma and Seattle, then Portland. That was 1770 miles of long haul, 1,916 including Portland. Add in the Louisville traffic and there is a 2600 mile line haul. I seem to recall-in the dark recesses of my faulty memory-the TRAINS "Professional Iconoclast" suggested that two railroads that would work best for his proposed integral train system to bring Pacific Rim traffic to population centers in the east would be the MR and Erie. The Milwaukee Road because it was one of the transcons that ran through to Chicago, so there would be only the Chicago terminal interchange and both railroads had minimal branchlines compared to long haul mains to help eliminate rehandling and delays...FWIW
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol It is true the PCE was remarkably compact -- not a lot of little branch lines wandering all over, and the ones such as Moses Lake were suprisingly productive. But that was the point. The PCE basically shot from the Twin Cities into the ports at Tacoma and Seattle, then Portland. That was 1770 miles of long haul, 1,916 including Portland. Add in the Louisville traffic and there is a 2600 mile line haul.
QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173 Hey....lets talk Erie Lackawanna. ed
QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]
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