Why does this forum only have one moderator?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by NS2317

Just out of curiousity, if a "noob" has been reading the forum for the same time the "veteran" has been posting, what qualifies the "veteran" to pass judgement on the "noob"?

Could it be the reason there is only one moderator on the forums?

Well, if a "noob" has been here a long time, just remained silent...then he's not a 'noob', ...he is a "lurker".

And for some guy to regularly come here,.....read the board heavily, but seldom contribute anything himself...it's pretty unlikely that such a person is going to come out of the closet just to referee.

Wouldn't make sense, would it?

Usually what I've found when some guy with a very low post count shows up and starts acting like he has rank over other members, barking orders like he is in charge,..it's usually one of the other regulars who has created a psuedo, or secondary ID that they use to stir up trouble with any way. That way if their deeds get them banned, they don't have to wear the reputation for their misbehavior.

Yes, that really makes a lot of sense.

However, it really wouldn't be that surprising to me if a lurker suddenly posted in a topic that he/she decided warranted it. People can only take so much, standing in the shadows, before they finally decide it's time to become involved (even though it may seem kinda' comical at times).

As for the later part, I would never have considered that as a reason for a post to escalate to the point of no return. You have been around forums for a long time Mr. Gates. [:)]

[Anonymous]

WE can tell the offending person we'll report them to the mod if he doesn't stop his imappropriate behavior. I'm not saying you should all go out and "pretend" to be a mod. Just warn this person and tell him that if he acts up again, you'll report him. Problem solved.
BTW, I wouldn't be surprised if this thread gets locked.

[Anonymous]

The ideal internet forum is self-policing. That is, if the community doesn't like a member's behavior they can flag that person for the moderator, or they can collectively ask that person to shape up. This Trains forum basically works like that, and works fine, and I don't see the need for more moderators.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Usually what I've found when some guy with a very low post count shows up and starts acting like he has rank over other members, barking orders like he is in charge,..it's usually one of the other regulars who has created a psuedo, or secondary ID that they use to stir up trouble with any way. That way if their deeds get them banned, they don't have to wear the reputation for their misbehavior.

Really? I am surprised at that. Guess I thought all the regular posters were fine, upstanding people that wouldn't stoop to such nonsense. Silly me!

That's irritating. Now I will look at posters with a more jaded eye!

Mookie

[edblysard]

Actually, dingy and cornmaze have the best idea...we the members are the best form of "forum police" there is...we do a good job of policing ourselves, and if you note, the flame wars only go on long enough for it to become readily apparent it is a flame war as opposed to a heated debate.

As AntiGates pointed out, when the members become moderators with the power to edit or remove, then the "member moderators" become part of the problem...it is human nature to show favoritism towards people who exhibit the same proclivities as yourself, and to exercise the power to slant a forum towards your personal favorites.

We are the one who hold the real power, by virtue that we can, when necessary, alert Bergie to a problem.
Most of us, with the exception of a rare few, have engaged in spats here, myself included(anyone seen the broke back boys again?) but for the most part, we do act and debate in a civil manner, and when or if it does degrade into name calling flame war, most of us are adult enough to stop on our own.

Additional "member moderators" will only serve to slowly turn this into a "steam fan" only or "diesel switcher" only forum, with moderators allowing their favorite posters a lot more latitude than others.

Because he doesn’t post here often, and can view all of this from a somewhat objective perspective, Bergie is in a position that allows him to not play favorites...he owes none of us a thing, and therefore is free to chastise and limit all of us equally, no matter how many stars or how long you have been a member.

Ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie



Really? I am surprised at that. Guess I thought all the regular posters were fine, upstanding people that wouldn't stoop to such nonsense. Silly me!

That's irritating. Now I will look at posters with a more jaded eye!

Mookie

Not saying that everyone is like that, or even that most people would do that,....but at the same time....."masquerading" is the oldest game on the internet.

There are some people (usually the ones that get picked on a lot) who thrill on serving revenge upon their adversaries , incognito, while others would never have anyone who agrees with them unless they create their own constituent supporters

I'd love to have a look at the IP log for this site,.. I suspect it would reveal that the trainfinders of the world are actually the work of one or two mischevious regulars who get bored and have fun pulling everyones leg.

How many regulars do you know to whom the term "mischevious" might apply? [:-,]

[Mookie]

It's like spitting in someone's soup! I'm not happy, so no one else will be either!

I don't mind a little mischief - not above that myself. But seems like some people go to a lot of trouble just to be out-and-out jerks! Poor miserable little people!

Moo....

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Even though Bergie isn't in here all the time there are several responsable members of this forum that will alert him if things get out of line. I have had to contact him a couple times myself. For the most part though the intelegent members of this forum can spot trolls and ignore them. Though I must admit sometimes I cant resist the temptation to toy with them. I really got to stop feeding the trolls though.[(-D]

Yeah Chad stop feeding that popcorn to the trolls![:D]

[CNW 6000]

QUOTE: when you see some guy with 3000 posts arguing with some guy who has 2500 posts , and some noob with 65 posts comes along and acts like it is his job to make peace, isn't that jist a little stupid?

I may only have 40ish posts but I agree with what other's have said. The number of posts a person has made technically has no correlation with intelligence. I know how to have a civilized discussion and can tell what a hot topic is. I check the forum daily, sometimes multiple times per day. I don't post frequently because not too many topics interest me enough to post. I agree, the best method of policing these forums is responsible use, common sense, and emailing the Mod when necessary.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Usually what I've found when some guy with a very low post count shows up and starts acting like he has rank over other members, barking orders like he is in charge,..it's usually one of the other regulars who has created a psuedo, or secondary ID that they use to stir up trouble with any way. That way if their deeds get them banned, they don't have to wear the reputation for their misbehavior.

Really? I am surprised at that. Guess I thought all the regular posters were fine, upstanding people that wouldn't stoop to such nonsense. Silly me!

That's irritating. Now I will look at posters with a more jaded eye!

Mookie

Mookie: I can honestly say that you won't need to look at me with a jaded eye. I lack the ambition, memory and general brain power to maintain an alternate personality on a message board.[D)] The personality I current occupy seems to take up all my time as it is[:p].
If anyone should feel that I'm out of line on anything, I'd hope he or she would be civil and tell me, and I will try to do likewise.[:)]

[Hugh Jampton]

Moderators??? We don't need no stinking moderators!!!

Moderators are like politicians,, the best ones are those who don't want the job.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Even though Bergie isn't in here all the time there are several responsable members of this forum that will alert him if things get out of line. I have had to contact him a couple times myself. For the most part though the intelegent members of this forum can spot trolls and ignore them. Though I must admit sometimes I cant resist the temptation to toy with them. I really got to stop feeding the trolls though.[(-D]

Yeah Chad stop feeding that popcorn to the trolls![:D]

Ok, I'm trying to quit.[;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

I'm not happy, so no one else will be either!

Well, heh heh, the Ides of March be upon us, so never underestimate anyone

[David_Telesha]

I have no idea what moderators you guys are used to, but your attitudes are quite concerning....

Seems to be the same attitudes that argue with employees or police when you are asked to move off the property when you are trespassing... No one can do any wrong, and if you are corrected, *darn* the authority who is enforcing the rules.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by David_Telesha

I have no idea what moderators you guys are used to, but your attitudes are quite concerning....

Seems to be the same attitudes that argue with employees or police when you are asked to move off the property when you are trespassing... No one can do any wrong, and if you are corrected, *darn* the authority who is enforcing the rules.

I don't think it is so much that, as it is awareness of how inflated ego's tend to crave power. Of you ask me, anyone who really WANTS to be a moderator probably shouldn't be allowed to be one.

Those with the ambition probably WANT to wield power over the heads of their peers..

And yeah, I'll confess, I'd rather not have to deal with someone who is more interested in enforcing their position of "power" than in letting ALL members enjoy themselves equally.

Plus, Bergie is doing a good job the way it is. If I felt the forum needed "fixed" then I might feel different. But since I don't see that as necessary, simply empowering some one so they can pretend to be influential offers nothing that promises to enhance my forum experiance, so I'm agin it.

I realize that is just one mans vote, but I don't think that I am alone...

(just an example)

Maybe you have never seen the problem I refer to because you are on the "inside" of those other forums?

Typically one won't see the harm done by a "good ol boy" network if they are a part of it, they just think it is great fun, among close friends....

The odd man out, however, can easily feel to be made the but of a dual standard.

If you find you are editing out posts by unpopular members for drifting out of strict context, but don't feel the need is that strong when your old buddy's do the same thing...then badda bing, badda bam , badda bong.....that is exactly the type of favoritism I am talking about. And we don't need that here (IMO)

[David_Telesha]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by David_Telesha

I have no idea what moderators you guys are used to, but your attitudes are quite concerning....

Seems to be the same attitudes that argue with employees or police when you are asked to move off the property when you are trespassing... No one can do any wrong, and if you are corrected, *darn* the authority who is enforcing the rules.

I don't think it is so much that, as it is awareness of how inflated ego's tend to crave power. Of you ask me, anyone who really WANTS to be a moderator probably shouldn't be allowed to be one.

Those with the ambition probably WANT to wield power over the heads of their peers..

And yeah, I'll confess, I'd rather not have to deal with someone who is more interested in enforcing their position of "power" than in letting ALL members enjoy themselves equally.

Plus, Bergie is doing a good job the way it is. If I felt the forum needed "fixed" then I might feel different. But since I don't see that as necessary, simply empowering some one so they can pretend to be influential offers nothing that promises to enhance my forum experiance, so I'm agin it.

I realize that is just one mans vote, but I don't think that I am alone...

(just an example)

Maybe you have never seen the problem I refer to because you are on the "inside" of those other forums?

Typically one won't see the harm done by a "good ol boy" network if they are a part of it, they just think it is great fun, among close friends....

The odd man out, however, can easily feel to be made the but of a dual standard.

If you find you are editing out posts by unpopular members for drifting out of strict context, but don't feel the need is that strong when your old buddy's do the same thing...then badda bing, badda bam , badda bong.....that is exactly the type of favoritism I am talking about. And we don't need that here (IMO)

Does the same apply to the MAJORITY of military or police? Is their ambition to help make a place better or just wield power, therefore people who want to do that stuff shouldn't be in your opinion???? The position would be better held by someone who doesn't give a hoot? I'm not denying there are some who abuse their power, but the same can be said for anyone.

Nothing needs to be fixed, as I've said before all the forum would need is someone to temporarily lock a topic for Bergie to review. Thats all I would suggest...

As for being on the inside, RR.net requested volunteers. I do not know personally or have any connections to the Administrators. I'm not anywhere close to the "inside".

If you think anyone would hesitate to report me if I abused my privelage as moderator in Employment (frequented by RR employees) or any of the others, I wouldn't be there. Believe me.

And what makes you think if Trains put in a mod here, the membership would hesitate to report abuse??

That puts a HUGE hole in your arguement.....

If you enjoy yourself telling people not to let the door hit them on their way out, or feeding their egos insulting them, well.....

This wouldn't be an issue if the "self policing majority" didn't have to endure and didn't feed the trolls that pop up multiple times a month. Like I said, this isn't something thats broken, the forum just gets hung up on it for hours...

Again, would it change your opinion if the only power the mod held was locking topics for Bergies review?

[DrummingTrainfan]

The only thing I have to say is that it'd be nice if Trains had a "weekend moderator" so that we can report abuses when Bergie gets to enjoy some time without us (and hopefully delay those stress-grays. [:I][;)])

[Mookie]

You know - Bergie isn't the only one that checks the forum. If you watch the bottom closely, you will see Kathie, Mike and even an occasional name that maybe you don't realize is Kalmbach affiliated.

We aren't just left to our own devices and we aren't checked on 100%. They give us some latitude to sort things out as adults. For that, I am happy.

And who would we annoint a moderator? I have some good associates on here that I would hate to see become moderator. I like a lot of them because they feel free to express themselves as they do in everyday life. They can disagree or correct me and I don't want to throw rocks at them.

Maybe if they became moderators, I would start a collection of rocks.

Moo.

[edblysard]

Hairballs Mookie, use hairballs...they stick better!

Ed[:D]

[Mookie]

ACK!

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by braund91

QUOTE: when you see some guy with 3000 posts arguing with some guy who has 2500 posts , and some noob with 65 posts comes along and acts like it is his job to make peace, isn't that jist a little stupid?

I may only have 40ish posts but I agree with what other's have said. The number of posts a person has made technically has no correlation with intelligence. I know how to have a civilized discussion and can tell what a hot topic is. I check the forum daily, sometimes multiple times per day. I don't post frequently because not too many topics interest me enough to post. I agree, the best method of policing these forums is responsible use, common sense, and emailing the Mod when necessary.

On the other hand, you aren't making outlandish posts, then taking offense when someone calls you down on them (not that some old heads don't do that, but...). Besides, the usual troll has exactly 1 post. 40+ may not make you an old-timer, but it does indicate (along with your join date) that you've been around the forums and made posts without attracting undo attention for a while.

[edblysard]

Man,
I really get nervous when people go looking for the perfect world, or perfect forum, cant find it or make it happen themselves, and then want to appoint or empower someone else to create it for them...dumping the responsibility off on anyone one else but them selves...
then whine and cry when those they just put in power shut them up too!

From what I have read in this thread, what a lot of people are really looking for is a moderator who thinks like themselves…not an objective moderator, but a person who will close off threads they personally don’t like.

Look at the debate between AntiGates, Big Z and a few others...not a flame war, but a rather heated, and passionately argued discourse over one man crews...but I bet a "member moderator" would have shut it down as too controversial...which would have been a shame, as it let the rest of us see into both AntiGates and Zardoa's view point on the issue, both interesting, yet divergent, and both valid.

Come on folks, we are all grown ups here, we don’t need a sandbox moderator...and as Antigates pointed out, I would be very suspect of anyone who wanted the position.

As for a weekend moderator, why?
What is here that can’t wait a day or two for Bergie?
Or are some of the members so sensitive they cant take a few rude remarks by a couple of kids?
Cause if your skin is that thin, you’re in for a world of hurt out there!

We could get a dozen moderators, and there would still be the occasional flame war...and in the end, the moderators would "war" with each other to see who has the most power...so you would just create a different set of circumstances, but end up with the same results.

What we have works...not perfectly, but better than most forums which have "adults" as the majority of its members.

The more rules we add here, the less open the debates, conversations and discussions…and the less enjoyable this forum will be.

Anyone noticed that a lot of the real railroaders that used to be here are gone?
Ever wonder why?

They got tired of being asked a question, and then having their answers nitpicked to death by the politically and grammatically correct, along with the content of the answer dismissed because the person asking the question became insulted by a remark, or because they didn’t like the language….wake up folks….these guys work and live in a rather crude, loud, obnoxious world…polite conversation over tea or coffee doesn’t exists for them….so by asking them to follow a set of verbal “rules”…you managed to chase them away.

You asked their opinion, they gave it, you didn’t like style or the way they gave it, and asked them to leave…they did.

You lost a few valuable resources there, all because?

As for the kids who troll this place…I would suspect most of the adult members here are parents…so the kids shouldn’t be too much of a problem for you…if they are, I would hate to be you when your kid hits 16!

Ed

[Kathi Kube]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

You know - Bergie isn't the only one that checks the forum. If you watch the bottom closely, you will see Kathie, Mike and even an occasional name that maybe you don't realize is Kalmbach affiliated.

Mookie! You peeked!

Actually, though, you're right. We don't always post, but a lot of folks in the building pop in here fairly often. I can't comment on whether we should have more moderators because it's not my decision.

I can say, however, that from what I hear of other forums for other magazines in the building, we've got a very nice group of people here who really don't require much policing. Mad props to you guys!

Kat

[chad thomas]

Well said Ed !!!

[Mookie]

Kathi - Mea Culpa - I spelled it with an e.....had my head in my moderator....

[:I]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by David_Telesha



A.but the same can be said for anyone.



B.As for being on the inside, RR.net requested volunteers. I do not know personally or have any connections to the Administrators. I'm not anywhere close to the "inside".


C.And what makes you think if Trains put in a mod here, the membership would hesitate to report abuse??

That puts a HUGE hole in your arguement.....



D.If you enjoy yourself telling people not to let the door hit them on their way out, or feeding their egos insulting them, well.....



E.Again, would it change your opinion if the only power the mod held was locking topics for Bergies review?

Before I reply to those questions, let me ask you to please not take my view as a personal affront.
Because it is not intended that way, ok? I'm not trying to imply that I personally am any more fit for such the position than you. I'm not trying to stand on the hill and point my finger. I've just seen too many forums go into the toilette after member mods started wielding their power to enforce their personal preferences over opposed opinion, and showing favoritism to their crony's.

with that said:

A. Exactly my point. The difference is that Bergie gets paid to do this. So, ostensibly, he has motive to remain professional and impartial. It's not that he is unfriendly , it's just that his first obligation is (rightfully) to Kalmbach, not to the group, or a portion therof.

B. Evidently you are not getting the point. If one is part of the "power structure", then they ARE on the inside.

There is a "good ol boy" network here, many of whom are outstanding contributors as members. But all you have to do is watch the occassional "kangaroo court" on session here when one of the less popular members posts an idea that ruffles the feathers of the brotherhood , to see that most of them enjoy "kicking the dog" just a little too much to be deemed 'impartial'. It doesn't take much imagination to see such types slapping one another on the backs and jeering "guess we showed HIM, huh?"

C. Really? I don't think so. Typically, among members of a good ol boy network , it is seldom seen as a "foul" whenever an outsider is given the 'what for', so rather that reporting the excesses of one another, they conspire to cover each other's tail. Just like when cops decide to fabricate evidence to cover for an unnecessary beating, the "Hey joe, you saw him swing at me first, right?" mentality, is regrettably all too likely.

D. I think you have me confused with one of the other members. I never made the remark you mention, that was someone else who made those taunts

E. I don't have any objection to more moderators being added, if it is determined that more moderators are needed. But I think it should be Kalmbach staffers, not some one out of the membership ranks.

I've just seen "member mods" ruin too many other forums to feel otherwise.

Not that my opinion matters any more that a vote of one, but that is my vote, nonetheless.

I'd be VERY leery of any member that was too anxious to pick up the gavel, figuring they already had a plan. But that is just me.

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie
Really? I am surprised at that. Guess I thought all the regular posters were fine, upstanding people that wouldn't stoop to such nonsense. Silly me!

That's irritating. Now I will look at posters with a more jaded eye!

Mookie

But Mookie, some of us need more than one forum ID. Each one of my 13 multiple personalities need their chance to speak as well. Fortunately, most of them spend a lot of their time in outer space or in different dimensions. But every once and a while when I am doing the Ouija board , POP!, out comes one of my alter-egos, and the first thing they want to do is go to the Trains forum and stir up trouble. Gee, what am I (all 13 of I) going to do now??[;)]

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie
Really? I am surprised at that. Guess I thought all the regular posters were fine, upstanding people that wouldn't stoop to such nonsense. Silly me!

That's irritating. Now I will look at posters with a more jaded eye!

Mookie

But Mookie, some of us need more than one forum ID. Each one of my 13 multiple personalities need their chance to speak as well. Fortunately, most of them spend a lot of their time in outer space or in different dimensions. But every once and a while when I am doing the Ouija board , POP!, out comes one of my alter-egos, and the first thing they want to do is go to the Trains forum and stir up trouble. Gee, what am I (all 13 of I) going to do now??[;)]

Sybil.....is that you again?[;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding


Sybil.....is that you again?[;)]

Being schizo means never having to sleep alone...[:I]

[ValleyX]

Ed, you said it so well that no one needs to say anymore. I still think what I thought before, that this forum's decorum is far gentler than some I've seen, some have no holds barred. Perhaps some of you working rails are familiar with the Underground Railroad, where everyone posts strictly anonymously. That's diametrically opposed to what we have here.