Do Locomotives have bunks and bathroom facilities???

[Dutchrailnut]

On steam engines you pee in coal pile and you*** on a shovel and trow it in the fire.

[edbenton]

No worse than running as a OTR driver. Sometimes the only bathroom nearby is the side of the road.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by locomutt

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....I seem to remember chatter of 5 man crews....Was this a reality in the past....? If so I suppose: Engineer...Fireman....Conductor....2 Brakemen....

Quentin,to the best of my knowledge you would be very correct.

The first three as you stated,and a "head end" and "rear end" brakeman.

At least when a "full-crew" law isn't involved. They varied from state to state. Indiana's law required an additional brakeman (total of six crew) when a freight train exceeded 70 cars.

[Anonymous]

I imagine most modern locomotives do have toilets in them. I remember a few years ago conrail was doing tours of one of their locomotives a GP-15-1 in Latrobe and the engineer showed me the bathroom in the nose of the loco. I also watched something on PCN tours the other day and they were doing a tour of the Erie GE locomotive plant and in the cab there was not only a toilet but also a small refrigerator for the crews food.
Never heard anything about bunks though.

[ValleyX]

Actually, it was more than 69 cars in Indiana that required a third brakeman, law was changed in 1972. New York also had a full crew law that mandated a third brakeman, not sure about the car count, and I'm thinking that Arkansas did.

The last full crews I can remember working with ever (engineer, fireman, two brakemen, and a conductor) was probably about 1987, possibly 1988. The reduced crews of conductor and engineer came in existence in the early winter, about December, 1991.

[Anonymous]

at the sacromento railfair there was a dash 9 and i was young so i might remeber it badly
but i remeber like a bunk and like a light and then a toliet and i was probly 'dee dee dee' but i remeber a microwave but i do know that some locos have a refrigerator

[gardendance]

We were watching a film of a steam locomotive crew cracking eggs and putting bacon on the coal shovel, and cooking their breakfast on it in the firebox.
If cooking on a coal shovel isn't bad enough a thought, one of my buddies watching the film mentioned he remembered crews using the shovel for toilet purposes, and tossing it into the fire.

[Anonymous]

yuk! I was riding my territory in an un-airconditioned locomotive when I was directed to the toilet in the hole in front of the unit. Being female, going outside to the rail wasn't an option. The worst part...flushing it and watching this black goo come up to the rim.

[Anonymous]

Cooking on the shovel was pretty common over here too - thing is, the firebox would be more than hot enough to sterilise it, so if you scoured off the coal dust and put it in the fire for a few minutes it'd be perfectly safe. I think toilet facilities involved waiting for the next station stop here!

[Anonymous]

Even assuming that the shovel really did get sterilized I'd imagine that whatever you cook on there would still taste like you cooked it in an ashtray. Plus wouldn't eating off rusty metal result in ptoemaine poisoning?

[Anonymous]

"unwitten rule" - DO NOT DO #2 IN THE LEAD ENGINE. If you have only one engine, be Mr. Natural and do it outside.

[Anonymous]

Sd-70 series electromotives and the big GE's have toilets,it takes special skills to aim and hit the target while the motors are moving at high speed so be careful.

[Robby P.]

Well I know this is a OLD topic, but here you go........

 

[eolafan]

I once saw a Wisconsin Central train sitting at a signal just north of Schiller Park yard and very near a street crossing where lots of citizens could see what was going on...and one of the crew members was standing along the long hood urinating onto the roadbed...not too classy a move but also a sort of editorial comment on the likely state of the toilet facilities on his SD45.

[WSORatSussex]

I pick up litter around my favorite fanning sites and it seems the company-provided water bottles have a second life, literally whipped out the window.

Ed

[morseman]

Welcome to the forum Sam.

From a simple question, what a wealth of information you can receive

Even I have learned a lot.

[Ulrich]

gardendance

We were watching a film of a steam locomotive crew cracking eggs and putting bacon on the coal shovel, and cooking their breakfast on it in the firebox.
If cooking on a coal shovel isn't bad enough a thought, one of my buddies watching the film mentioned he remembered crews using the shovel for toilet purposes, and tossing it into the fire.

 

Hmmmm...hopefully the poop shovel  and the breakfast shovel aren't one and the same?

[chad thomas]

  Alright...Who's been digging around in the basement for old threads? 

[zugmann]

It's the railroad. There only was one shovel. But no worry, the heat of the firebox was more than enough to sanitize it,

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

dirtyd79

Even assuming that the shovel really did get sterilized I'd imagine that whatever you cook on there would still taste like you cooked it in an ashtray. Plus wouldn't eating off rusty metal result in ptoemaine poisoning?

A well-used coal shovel will have pretty much all of the rust and other crud scraped off it - shoveling coal is about like shoveling rocks or stones - so it would be about down to the "bare metal" condition (dull shine).

I don't know about the ptomaine poisoning question - doubt it, though.  Really wouldn't be all that different from cooking on a cast iron skillet over a wood campfire or on the top of a coal stove, though.  Especially if the coal fire had a few minutes to simmer down to a low-smoke "glowing coals" condition, as opposed to a roaring draft and a lot of smoke.  The bottom of the "pan" / scoop shields the food from the worst of the smoke odors - plus, I think it's the saltpeter in the tobacco or cigarettes that produces the worst of the "ashtray" smell.  With just a waste rag and a little water to wipe the shovel clean, I think I could do eggs 'n' bacon as good as any diner griddle, and still clear any bacteria tests the public health inspector would care to make.

- Paul North.

[enr2099]

the feed

but i remeber like a bunk and like a light and then a toliet

 

 The only bunks are in the bunkhouse at the end of the run. The only thing close to a bunk is the emergency stretcher. 

[Dakguy201]

I am dismayed to learn from Mudchicken that the FRA, the railroads and the rail unions require five pages of regulations on the subject of bathroom facilities.  I can only guess the amount of time it took all parties to reach consenus on this subject and reduce that to (federal bureaucracy) English.

 

[Dutchrailnut]

Simply because railroads do not like to play by the rules ;-)

 

                       TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

       CHAPTER II--FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF
                             TRANSPORTATION

PART 229_RAILROAD LOCOMOTIVE SAFETY STANDARDS--Table of Contents

                      Subpart C_Safety Requirements

Sec.  229.137  Sanitation, general requirements.

    (a) Sanitation compartment. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of
this section, all lead locomotives in use shall be equipped with a
sanitation compartment. Each sanitation compartment shall be:
    (1) Adequately ventilated;
    (2) Equipped with a door that:
    (i) Closes, and
    (ii) Possesses a modesty lock by [18 months after publication of the
final rule];
    (3) Equipped with a toilet facility, as defined in this part;
    (4) Equipped with a washing system, as defined in this part, unless
the railroad otherwise provides the washing system to employees upon
reporting for duty or occupying the cab for duty, or where the
locomotive is equipped with a stationary sink that is located outside of
the sanitation compartment;
    (5) Equipped with toilet paper in sufficient quantity to meet
employee needs, unless the railroad otherwise provides toilet paper to
employees upon reporting for duty or occupying the cab for duty; and
    (6) Equipped with a trash receptacle, unless the railroad otherwise
provides portable trash receptacles to employees upon reporting for duty
or occupying the cab for duty.
    (b) Exceptions. (1) Paragraph (a) of this section shall not apply
to:
    (i) Locomotives engaged in commuter service or other short-haul
passenger service and commuter work trains on which employees have ready
access to railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of the
locomotive or elsewhere on the train, that meet otherwise applicable
sanitation standards, at frequent intervals during the course of their
work shift;
    (ii) Locomotives engaged in switching service on which employees
have ready access to railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of
the locomotive, that meet otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at
frequent intervals during the course of their work shift;
    (iii) Locomotives engaged in transfer service on which employees
have ready access to railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of
the locomotive, that meet otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at
frequent intervals during the course of their work shift;
    (iv) Locomotives of Class III railroads engaged in operations other
than switching service or transfer service, that are not equipped with a
sanitation compartment as of June 3, 2002. Where an unequipped
locomotive of a Class III railroad is engaged in operations other than
switching or transfer service, employees shall have ready access to
railroad-provided sanitation facilities outside of the locomotive that
meet otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at frequent intervals
during the course of their work shift, or the railroad shall arrange for
enroute access to such facilities;
    (v) Locomotives of tourist, scenic, historic, or excursion railroad
operations, which are otherwise covered by this part because they are
not propelled by steam power and operate on the general railroad system
of transportation, but on which employees have ready access to railroad-
provided sanitation facilities outside of the locomotive, that meet
otherwise applicable sanitation standards, at frequent intervals during
the course of their work shift; and

[[Page 447]]

    (vi) Except as provided in Sec.  229.14 of this part, DMU, MU, and
control cab locomotives designed for passenger occupancy and used in
intercity push-pull service that are not equipped with sanitation
facilities, where employees have ready access to railroad-provided
sanitation in other passenger cars on the train at frequent intervals
during the course of their work shift.
    (2) Paragraph (a)(3) of this section shall not apply to:
    (i) Locomotives of a Class I railroad which, prior to [the effective
date of this section], were equipped with a toilet facility in which
human waste falls via gravity to a holding tank where it is stored and
periodically emptied, which does not conform to the definition of toilet
facility set forth in this section. For these locomotives, the
requirements of this section pertaining to the type of toilet facilities
required shall be effective as these toilets become defective or are
replaced with conforming units, whichever occurs first. All other
requirements set forth in this section shall apply to these locomotives
as of June 3, 2002; and
    (ii) With respect to the locomotives of a Class I railroad which,
prior to June 3, 2002, were equipped with a sanitation system other than
the units addressed by paragraph (b)(2)(i) of this section, that
contains and removes human waste by a method that does not conform with
the definition of toilet facility as set forth in this section, the
requirements of this section pertaining to the type of toilet facilities
shall apply on locomotives in use on July 1, 2003. However, the Class I
railroad subject to this exception shall not deliver locomotives with
such sanitation systems to other railroads for use, in the lead
position, during the time between June 3, 2002, and July 1, 2003. All
other requirements set forth in this section shall apply to the
locomotives of this Class I railroad as of June 3, 2002.
    (c) Defective, unsanitary toilet facility; prohibition in lead
position. Except as provided in paragraphs (c)(1) through (5) of this
section, if the railroad determines during the daily inspection required
by Sec.  229.21 that a locomotive toilet facility is defective or is
unsanitary, or both, the railroad shall not use the locomotive in the
lead position. The railroad may continue to use a lead locomotive with a
toilet facility that is defective or unsanitary as of the daily
inspection only where all of the following conditions are met:
    (1) The unsanitary or defective condition is discovered at a
location where there are no other suitable locomotives available for
use, ie., where it is not possible to switch another locomotive into the
lead position, or the location is not equipped to clean the sanitation
compartment if unsanitary or repair the toilet facility if defective;
    (2) The locomotive, while noncompliant, did not pass through a
location where it could have been cleaned if unsanitary, repaired if
defective, or switched with another compliant locomotive, since its last
daily inspection required by this part;
    (3) Upon reasonable request of a locomotive crewmember operating a
locomotive with a defective or unsanitary toilet facility, the railroad
arranges for access to a toilet facility outside the locomotive that
meets otherwise applicable sanitation standards;
    (4) If the sanitation compartment is unsanitary, the sanitation
compartment door shall be closed and adequate ventilation shall be
provided in the cab so that it is habitable; and
    (5) The locomotive shall not continue in service in the lead
position beyond a location where the defective or unsanitary condition
can be corrected or replaced with another compliant locomotive, or the
next daily inspection required by this part, whichever occurs first.
    (d) Defective, unsanitary toilet facility; use in trailing position.
If the railroad determines during the daily inspection required by Sec. 
229.21 that a locomotive toilet facility is defective or is unsanitary,
or both, the railroad may use the locomotive in trailing position. If
the railroad places the locomotive in trailing position, they shall not
haul employees in the unit unless the sanitation compartment is made
sanitary prior to occupancy. If the toilet facility is defective and the
unit becomes occupied, the railroad shall clearly mark the defective
toilet facility as unavailable for use.

[[Page 448]]

    (e) Defective, sanitary toilet facility; use in switching, transfer
service. If the railroad determines during the daily inspection required
by Sec.  229.21 that a locomotive toilet facility is defective, but
sanitary, the railroad may use the locomotive in switching service, as
set forth in paragraph (b)(1)(ii) of this section, or in transfer
service, as set forth in paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section for a
period not to exceed 10 days. In this instance, the railroad shall
clearly mark the defective toilet facility as unavailable for use. After
expiration of the 10-day period, the locomotive shall be repaired or
used in the trailing position.
    (f) Lack of toilet paper, washing system, trash receptacle. If the
railroad determines during the daily inspection required by Sec.  229.21
that the lead locomotive is not equipped with toilet paper in sufficient
quantity to meet employee needs, or a washing system as required by
paragraph (a)(4) of this section, or a trash receptacle as required by
paragraph (a)(6) of this section, the locomotive shall be equipped with
these items prior to departure.
    (g) Inadequate ventilation. If the railroad determines during the
daily inspection required by Sec.  229.21 that the sanitation
compartment of the lead locomotive in use is not adequately ventilated
as required by paragraph (a)(1) of this section, the railroad shall
repair the ventilation prior to departure, or place the locomotive in
trailing position, in switching service as set forth in paragraph
(b)(1)(ii) of this section, or in transfer service as set forth in
paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section.
    (h) Door closure and modesty lock. If the railroad determines during
the daily inspection required by Sec.  229.21 that the sanitation
compartment on the lead locomotive is not equipped with a door that
closes, as required by paragraph (a)(2)(i) of this section, the railroad
shall repair the door prior to departure, or place the locomotive in
trailing position, in switching service as set forth in paragraph
(b)(1)(ii) of this section, or in transfer service as set forth in
paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section. If the railroad determines during
the daily inspection required by Sec.  229.21 that the modesty lock
required by paragraph (a)(2)(ii) of this section is defective, the
modesty lock shall be repaired pursuant to the requirements of Sec. 
229.139(e).
    (i) Equipped units; retention and maintenance. Except where a
railroad downgrades a locomotive to service in which it will never be
occupied, where a locomotive is equipped with a toilet facility as of
[the effective date of the final rule], the railroad shall retain and
maintain the toilet facility in the locomotive consistent with the
requirements of this part, including locomotives used in switching
service pursuant to paragraph (b)(1)(ii) of this section, and in
transfer service pursuant to paragraph (b)(1)(iii) of this section.
    (j) Newly manufactured units; in-cab facilities. All locomotives
manufactured after June 3, 2002, except switching units built
exclusively for switching service and locomotives built exclusively for
commuter service, shall be equipped with a sanitation compartment
accessible to cab employees without exiting to the out-of-doors for use.
No railroad may use a locomotive built after June 3, 2002, that does not
comply with this subsection.
    (k) Potable water. The railroad shall utilize potable water where
the washing system includes the use of water.

[wjstix]

In steam days, generally when 'cooking on the shovel' you didn't literally put your food directly on the shovel, it would be in some sort of pot or container. You'd be using the shovel to get it in or near the fire to heat up. You probably wouldn't need to get it directly in the fire, I think you'd normally only be warming things up, not really cooking them.

Engine service crews might carry a lunch with them, but generally "got beans" at a diner; they also slept at a hotel, boarding house or YMCA. The caboose crew generally ate and slept in the caboose, sometimes for days on end. It was generally assigned to a conductor, and he and his brakemen might add curtains, pictures, extra bedding, etc. to make it more liveable. BTW, a brakeman who was a good cook was more likely to be chosen by the conductor who "owned" the caboose to be assigned to him over one who wasn't a cook.

Cabooses had toilets of a sort, but crews often avoided using them so it didn't create a smell. Warren McGee (NP conductor) said he stored the fusees there. It's not unheard of for a railfan to take a pic of a crewman hanging his posterior off the end of the caboose out in the middle of nowhere where no one would be (or so the crewman thought!)

 If a train was stranded in a blizzard the caboose crew might allow the engineer and fireman to come back to the caboose and share their food and warmth.

[Anonymous]

The GP7/GP9 two-unit consist the St. Croix Valley RR ran between Hinckley and Rush City, MN a few years back sure didn't have a can.  By the time our job got back to Hinckley it felt like my bladder was the size of a basketball.  Martin the engineer had to stop the train about 300 ft. short of their usual tie-up spot so I could get out and hose-down the ROW. 

I think all those bladder-buster parties I attended in college gave me the capacity to make it that far, thank God. Otherwise I think I'd have been whizzin'-off the long-hood end of the lead Geep (one hand on the grab bar and one on the hose).

[shawn91481]

I had an old train book as a kid. I think it was printed in the 50s or 60s.  If I remeber correctly they had a cut away view of a F unit which depicted the toilet and a cot in the back of the locomotive... that said I could be remembering incorrectly. 

[chutton01]

shawn91481

I had an old train book as a kid. I think it was printed in the 50s or 60s.  If I remeber correctly they had a cut away view of a F unit which depicted the toilet and a cot in the back of the locomotive.

Is it possible that was for an on-call technician during a duration test run of a demo loco?
Looking at this floor diagram of a F3 A unit, there isn't really much room to safely put a cot for a demo run - heck, even the toilet (#43, at the rear of the loco) looks squeezed in as an afterthought.

However, this particular cab* unit has plenty of interior room for a bathroom, couch, and king sized bed. Room for a prime mover & alternator, on the other hand...
_{*(Yeah, I know it's not really a cab unit, just go with it, OK?)}

[54light15]

There's a scene in the film "The Train" with Burt Lancaster. There's a German soldier stationed in the cab. The train is in a station and the fireman's got to go to the can and starts to descend the ladder. The guard says, "use the coal pile." He should have grabbed an oil can, what the guard have said then?

[Electroliner 1935]

One of my memories is of being on a PRR E-8 and needing to use the porcelian facility at 90+ mph. Main line East of Indianapolis had cab signals. PRR ran a great fast system. The toilet was located on the engineers side of the engine beside the rear of the #2 (no pun intended) V-12 and in front of the right side steam generator (PRR's E's had two). The toilet discharged on the tracks just as the passenger cars did back then. No sound deading and no compartment, just another engine appliance. A V-12 567 is loud.

[samfp1943]

To address the post of chutton01: I seem to recal an article in a much older TRAINS that had an article by one of the current editors (possibly, another writer(?).  They were taking a long distance trip, as guests, on board a freight train ( No accomodations,IIRC, other than 'jump seats'.)

     After a number of hours being up, and through crew changes; they elected to go back to an unoccupied unit, and tried to sleep on that unit(?).  Makes one wonder, If J.B. Hunt, as a guest with Mike Haverty, had had to sleep in a locomotive, on their 'Super C' Journey; would the Santa Fe's  collaboration with JBH have ever gotten 'off the ground'??

 Another story mentioned that a ' Locomotive Company Delivery Courier' had to stay with the engines in his charge, and constantly be available, to make sure the engine('s), in his charge, were handled properly, enroute to their new receiving owner railroad from the builder. The article mentioned that the Courier, mentioned in the article, made use of a hammock, swung in the new locomotive's cab; until the new locomotive(s) were turned over to their new owner.

There was a more recent story, about a courier, whose job was to oversee the transportation of private owner cars while those cars were being tansported to another location, for their owner...

 Apparently, there are "Rules" that govern the occupation of a car being moved empty, in freight trains(?).  Only a qualified, designated, individual [Courier?] may occupy the car being moved(?)

  Around 1999 or 2000 The BNSF was publishing some articles on their webpage about trying different protocols to help road crews 'get rested' while 'stopped or waiting' enroute.    One proposal, I recall was the eventuality of putting a 'cot(?)/bed' in locomotive cabs; there would be an agreement with the locomotive crew for one to rest while the other stayed awake, for communications. It was apparently, an 'idea' that, for whatever reason, went nowhere.