"Adequate warning devices",

[Anonymous]

I would have to say we have railroad crossings across highways all the time but not interstate hiways. That would not be smart to put one across a intersate highway but our state owned highways have crossing across them but I don't see any way around that. I wi***here was. Every one has to admit a fail proof system would be nice but aslong as you are talking electric and computer it will never happen. I agree the safest ones are the ones that are not there but then again that is not realistic either until either trains or cars can fly!!!!!

[Anonymous]

I bet Kevin gets cursed alot stopping at every signal in the country. Sitting there stopped at a green light blowing his horn on state highway 23.

[Anonymous]

Ok prarierose let's try this again

Reread my previous statement...

if you'll notice the following -

- I DONT have a degree in electrical engineering
-I DON'T make 890 dollars an hour

i don't even make close that

i probobly make less then you

my job will never pay off as much as yours will
I help people get from A to B, You help them in various other ways, and for that i congradualte you.

Who in this world has common sense? I do.. i bet you do.. Ed does.. ken does... anyone on here probobly does..

now who in this world uses their common sense to realize that the gates DON'T always work?

ooooo believe it or not, not many poeple.

Who in this world can add?? oooo i can... i bet you can.. Ed can... Do yuo do quick arithamtic in your head before going over a crossing, see i bet you didn't know.. is that the electric gates and lights are more likely to screw up the more tracks there are.. so let's see if theres 1+1 tracks that makes 2 tracks that means the gates are twice as likely to screw up as they would with one track.

or if theres a sign that sais 4 tracks do you still just stop? realizing those danm things are 4 times more likely to screw up then anywhere else..

No, when i'm driving my train believe it or not, i can't stop at every crossing. I blast by most of them at more then 70 MPH.

Do yuo realize what Stop, look, listen, and live can do for you? Do you relize how many people's lives that has saved

maybe you should quit bucking that system, give up your grudge.. play by the rules that state " A train is bigger then your car" please don't tell me you disagree with that statement. ok i'll refine it.. "a train is slightly bigger then your car.."

what's the closest you've ever been to an oncomming freight train moving at 65 MPH? to realize, holy crap.. if i was under there... theres no chance in heck that i'd survive.. i've stood right beside them as they fly by.. and in no way do i reccomend this. But it makes you think.. sometimes you have to expierience a hit, or a fast moving freight train to understand it's capabilities, or in my cse a GE4400 locomotive with 8 cars moving at speeds in the upper 70's..

maybe one day, and pray to god this never happens to you, you'll expirience a crash for yourself. you'll see what it's like to cheat the system. let's play cheat the gates game.. ooo that small train isn't moving that fast.. you know thats what most people think?

"That SMALL TRAIN IS NOT MOVING that FAST"

so let's CHEAT the GATES

those words are a deadly combination.. SMALL, TRAIN, NOT, MOVING, FAST, CHEAT, and GATES. if 6 out of seven of those words have ever appeared simoultainously in your head in the same sentance. you know your pattern of thinking is out of wack.

So again, your not fooling me.. you can buck and kick at the "stop, look, listen and live" slogan all you want, disregard it till the cows come home. It would bve an absolute shame to lose a nurse as good as yourself to a Friggin gate crossing that failed to activate because of some technical error, when all she had to do is STOP, LOOK, LISTEN, and LIVE. and, (id love to address you by your name) all i'm trying to do is save your life in a way. the same kind of thing you do for other people.. the same kinda thing you'd do for me, i hope. but in a way your like a bucking patient. refusing to accept a simple slogan.. if it doesn't work why did CN addopt it, why did they waste a lot of paint and paint it on their locomotives? why did Conrail adopt it, CSX adopt it? they must be wasting their time, in a way i feel i am too. you may be a woman, but i was kinda hoping you could let down the "women are always right" for a few seocndes, and take my advice seriously to heart. It's a simple slogan and it's proves to save lives. so please, i beg of you.. take my advice to heart, or don't if the slogan is to hard to go by. Yuor getting advice straight from the horses mouth. I've been there at an accident.. Pray to God you never have to be, and after giveing you my advice, i hope you relize i'm only helping you, this is one part of the job i don't get to do often.. you get to help people everyday. i'm so envious of your job, i love helping people.. and i'm trying to make that up by doing so on here.

kev.

[JoeKoh]

yes kev
stop look listen and live.I wish more people would do that.come join us on the bbq train and have some of mammas chocolate cake(if matt and jen haven't eaten it all!)
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

Kev,
First of all I must appologize for misinterpreting your occupation. Second of all My name is Melissa. I am 26 years old. I will be honest with you I do have some what of a problem with some of the things that go on involving crashes. They are personal and I don't care to post them on her for every one to read. You see I have been on a railsafety list serve and I will be honest with you there is alot of blame and anger there. I am tired of blame and anger. I don't think it will solve any thing. The people are trying to make things better but maybe not going about it right I am not sure. I don't hate any one. I TRY not to judge any one (some times that one is hard) I just simply want to talk to you guys and see how things could be made better. I realize you guys are attacked alot. I am sorry for that even though it is not with in my control. I realize you are employees with bosses and just do what you are told like any one else in their career. I realize you all have loved ones and support them. I don't see you as monsters or bad people. I just want to see what can be done to improve some thing that is dangerous. It is dangerous for you guys and every one else. I have seen how many people have lost some one dear to them on this list serve and they are hurt and angry. Every one has a cause to believe in and I don't fault them for doing what they think is right no more than I fault you or myself for doing what ever it is that we think is right. I do appriciate your honesty with me and your thoughtfullness. I do try to be safe at crossings. honestly I have seen some dangerous crossings. I have heard the stories of those people that have lost their loved ones, and why it happened. I feel for them. Some of them are probably that 10% you talked about. I realize accidents happen. But like you said a train is big. To be hit by a train is like a car running over a pop can. The chance of survival is very small. There are people dying all the time and it is sad not just from crossings but every thing in life. Some times they can be prevented and some times not. I know a man that went around the gates with is wife and 3 kids in his car and was hit by a train. Only by the grace of God they all survived with only minor injury. I despise the man but I also know he is very uneducated or very selfish. I think he should have been sent to driving school and his license taken away for that. Maybe laws need to be stricter on those that do it and get caught. I am not saying your slogan is not a good one. As long as people know that it applies to ALL crossings not just one with the crossbucks or lights. But ALL of them. I don't recall getting much info on railroad safety in my drivers ed class (seem like such a long time ego) and I would hope that has changed if not is should. Any way I just try to do what is right and I try to use empathy with situations I hear and people. Maybe it is a curse I have but I do get sad when I hear some one was killed for what ever reason (especially children). I try to put my self in the place of the loved one or even the victim not matter what the situation or reason for the death. I do not call people stupid that have died because they have paid the hightest price and like I said I try not to judge people. If I saw them just as some stupid person I would not fully feel what a shame it is and how sad their family must be. Like I said it was a curse I was born with. Perhaps that is why I am a nurse and why I work at a school with chilren. Any way I just wanted to let you know I am not a fanatic or trying to insult anyone. I just simply want to get both sides of the issue to get a better understanding as to what "I" can do (if any thing) to help. By the way.....Woman are usually always right :-) (lol) didn't your mother teach you that???
melissa

[Jackflash]

One answer is education, but just talking it seems
just wont do, several years ago a small group of
railroaders visited high schools to talk crossing
safety to drivers ed classes, the students found
it boreing (it seems), no questions just ho-hum
when is this jerk gonna finish, Now, from an
engineers vantage point comming up on a crossing
we see automobiles putting their brakes on and
slowing down (you can see the brake lights at night real good) then all of a sudden they are on
the gas and shooting over the crossing, well,
every now and again one wont make it, if they are
alive the first thing they say is the horn wasnt
blowing, the headlights wasnt on, the crossing
signal wasnt working, the train was speeding, ect
also, sometimes its not just the motorist that
gets hurt or killed, ever see the front of a locomotive after it tangles with a log truck or
a cement truck, wheres the tears for the crew
members hurt and killed because some fool wanted
to beat the train and save 1 or 2 minutes, the only answer....look listen and live at RR crossings, expect a train anytime. jackflash

[Anonymous]

An individual, on a bicycle, provided they don't have a cell-phone glued to their head, should be able to hear an oncoming train. I'm sure that this case will make its way through the courts, and someone will collect millions from various defendants. I think what what was lacking here was common sense. I don't know all the details, but really, how can a person on a bicycle NOT be aware of a train bearing down upon them? I can understand these kids with the stereos that shake houses for 2 blocks, sure, THEY might not hear the train, but someone on a bicycle? Come on!
Just my 2 cents.....
Todd C.

[edblysard]

Hi Melissa,
I am Ed, and have been a engine foreman/switchman foreman for almost seven years.
No, I am not going to start off with the "I am so sorry for", I am sure you have heard it far too many times by now. Both of my sisters are nurses, one is a ER nurse, the other a flight nurse/trauma room nurse and teacher, so I know you already have the first hand experience of some of the crazy things people do to each other and themselves.
You'r post said you lost someone at a grade crossing accident, and we respect you wish not to discuss that. From your response to Kev, I can tell you have fighred out that there are guys, and a lot of women, in the cab who suffer just as much mental tramua as the drivers physical trauma. The Stop, Look and Listen ,(now look, listen and live)slogan wasn't though up by "The Railroads" as we are often refered to, but instead it was a product of the people who started operation lifesaver, railroaders. We came up with that because it was the only thing we could imagine that everyone could use and follow. Its was the one thing we realized reinforced the option that all automobile drivers have that we dont, the choice to stop.
As a nurse, you already know what having a high pressure job can do to a person, so imagine if, every day, several times during your routine job, you almost have a collision with a car?
Or a school bus or gasoline truck? So these guys are a little pre desposed to be defensive when accused of trying to hit people, or accused of not careing when it does happen.
One of the things the "hate" sites rarely mention is the the county, state or city DOT decides what amount of crossing protection a paticular crossing gets, not the railroad. Your DOT has to sue the railroad to gain access to the right of way in the first place, we dont want any crossing at all. Your reasonable assumption that we have bosses, so we do what they tell us to is some what correct, but we dont set the speed limits for a particular strech of tracks, nor does the railroad who owns the tracks, the FRA does, based on train traffic density, location and condition of the tracks, and type of cargo handled on average in that location. Crossbucks, gates, flashing lights and arms are traffic devices, not railroad devices, and driving around them is a traffic violation, punishable by a citation and fine. But sadly, the biggest punishment is to be hit by a train. We do have the legal right of way, and a inheirent one too, based on the relative size of the train versus the automobile. But none of that is ever mentioned on any of these sites. Pity, it might save someone life if they did tell you this, but their anger at losing a loved one sometimes leads them to not see both side of the issue, and the grief blinds them. No one wants to ever admit that they did something wrong, it human nature to find and fix blame elsewhere. But Kev gave you some facts that are overlooked. Now, I work around this stuff everyday, I work in a rail yard, and ride on the sides of cars all the time. How can anyone not realize these things are huge and heavy? The smallest locomotive we use weight 254000 lbs. Thats 152 tons. At 20 mph, if you apply the emergency brakes, it takes about 150 feet for it to stop. Now add in all the cars behind it, and their inertia. It just cant stop like your car.
And heres a fact never mentioned. In our rule book, when a train approaches a crossing where the crossings devices are not working, or appear to be malfunctioning, the train must stop 50 feet short of the crossing, and a menber of the crew must walk to the crossing to ascertain if it is safe for the train to proceed. The crew member must remain at the crossing to provide warning to all motorist of the approaching train, and may only board the train after the lead locomotive occupies the crossing. This same rule applies if the head lights or the ditch lights(two flashing warning lights) fail while the train is in transit. At the first possible opportunity, the crew must report the crossing to the dispatcher.
Now, does this sound like a rule written by people who dont care?
Lastly, you wanted to know both side of the issue. Well, most railroaders agree, the safest crossing is the one that isnt there. So here what we, railroaders, would like you to do. Raise a fuss with who ever designes the crossings where you live. Try to make them close as many as they can, and reroute traffic patterns to avoid crossing railroad track. Go to the oldest part of your city or town, and you will find that before the 1950s, most major roads went over or under the tracks, not across them. But budget constraints and politics have allowed designers to stop doing that, it cheaper to do it a grade than to build a overpass or underpass. The civil engineers even have a formula to determine the acceptable number of deaths per year at a given crossing, based on automobile traffic use and population density. Acceptable number of deaths? My brother in law is a civil engineer, he builds water treatment plants, and he provided me with some of the critiera. Bet thats the first time you heard your DOT has an acceptable number of deaths for anything, but its true. The people who design crossings already know that people are going to be killed, they even have a good figure on how many per year will die there. So dont get mad at the railroaders who are running their trains on private property, instead, get after the people who design these things in the first place. Demand they start going over or under, not across. How many traffic accidents do you imagine happen at a railroad under pass? Not many. The issue of crossing safety is one very close to all railroaders, its one of, if not the most important issue we deal with everyday.
Noted you work with children, good for you. Heres a chance for you to make a difference, teach everyone you can to stay away from the tracks. We get a kick out of watching you wave at us, and we like to wave back, but we dont like you anywhere near our trains. For us, the worst is when these things happen, and there are children involved. Most of us are parents, I am, and it tears a part of your soul away when a child dies, not only because they died, but because, for the most part, they had no choice in the matter, they were just along for the ride. We save our worst curses for the parents who, under any other circumstances, would fight to the death to defend their kids from harm, yet foolishly drive around the gates with their kids in the back seat. How could they be so dumb?
Dont come here just for the crossing issue, stick around a while. You will find that on just about anything else, we are a pretty fun and funny bunch of folks. Kev is a blast, english isnt his first language, so sometimes we say something, but he reads something else, and sometimes he writes something, and we have to try and guess what he really meant, its gets pretty funny.
Hope I gave you a little more insight into how we are, and what we do, and why.
But mostly hope you teach the little kids to Look, Listen, and Live.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

I would like to address 2 things

Todd C: you are correct. a freight train horn produces a sharp noice in the upper 1000-3000 decibles. that's enoguh to wake the dead.. if the cyclist wouyld have looked.. up or "Look, listened he would hav lived" he couldn't have missed the train unless.. wow... he's just dumb.

next Melissa, Not only odes my mother contiuously tell me women are right, my Girlfriend rubs it in my facew AT least twice a day..

in your adress to me, you stated some excellent points. i'm going to state that my spelling is bad. Just so everyone knows. I now know that you understand how stressful it is to sit in the locomtive (OR even worse, the dreaded control cab.)
the control cab is the worst place to be. there is no protection for me.. if i hit a car.. a cement rtruck.. a log teuck.. or anything.. if you can spell INSTANTLY DEAD, thats what i would be. Many people on here don't have to worry about being in control cabs. I do.. we don't turn the locomotives around, so going into montreal the conductor (me) is in the Lovomotive, but on the way out of montreal, we don't switch which end the locomotive is on.. instead the last car is knoiwn as the control cab.. you can control the train from there when going the oppostie dirrection. I'm sure i've done the worst job ever at explaining myself, if Ed or anyone knows what i'm trying to say, please feel free to help me out. The cotrol cab is the most dangerous place ever. Your sitting less then 1 foot away from the glass.. and it's LOW to the ground unlike the locomotives.. so if i hit a car.. i'm dead instantly.. i'd be crushed... or some terrible death. i wouldn't even make it to a nurse, or a hospital. Don't get me wrong.. unlike a freight train.. the longest train i've ever driven is 10 cars. so my stop time is signifiacantly better.. then a freight train.. with the new locomotives, i have almost got the ability to stop on a dime. whens it 3 cars.. stopping is no problem in an emrgency.

I hate the crontrol cab.. i have to realize that as soon as i enter that... that's utterly heartwrenching... The people see me when i get on the train i wlak by them most likely wiht a smile on my face, but what they don't see is me inside terrified, that tehy'll all survive the crash.. but theres no chance in heck i will... they don't get to see that.. thers a greater chance i'll never see anyone i know again..

somone up there wrote.. was it joe? he said.. when people are hit.. they always blame the railroad.. that is true beyond anyone could ever know.. it was their stupidity bvut men don't like to take responsibility for their mistakes.. right? they went across the crossing when they shouldn't have.. so whose fault can they make it... was it the whistle was broken... or the traindriver was drunk.. or the signals were busted and soo rusted that they could never of worked... weve heard a lot of excuses..

1) the red on the CN locomotive wasn't bright enough

2)_ one of the lights ont eh crossing barriers wasn't working.. it was only flashing on way.. so a guy thought that meant it was automatically safe to cross that crossing

or the most famous one.. that has been said more then any other ones..

3) I DIDN'T THINK THE TRAIN WAS MOVING THAT FAST!!

i hate that one.. that means they saw the train.. but just wanted to cheat it.

HOW did he GET that out of that?.. (referring to #2)
see what i mean by dumb?

anyways.. i wish i could explain a control cab better...

i'd would love to know what you mean by.. what team are you on Train disatser relief... you said.. can you explain what that is? i'm sure we don't have that up here unless i missunderstood it..

anyways hope this helps out

kev.

[Anonymous]

Melissa,
I just re-read my article and realized if this was english class i would have recived an F so let me clarify what i was trying to say.

the number 2 excuse i stated me need some clarifing.
The guy beofr he corssed the corrsing, noticed that only one of the red flashing lights were working. so he thoguht in some twisted way that it meant Proceed instead of Stop.. enebt thoguht thew gates were down.

anyhting else that was unclear other then the entire thing...

We have accidnrts on the train sometimes.. the funniest one was a month ago. CP rail decided they didn't want the old Telegraph poles beside the railroad anyomore.. so they took off the wires and began.. how do you say this in English.. you take a chainsaw and you...somehting a tree... this sounds stupid, but i don't know it.. what do you to do a tree when you have a chainsaw.. ok well it's time for Kevin to play make-up-the-word game.. so anyways, they were "chainsawing" the posts.. and they were falling one by one on the side of the tracks, so i honked the horn to symblize i was passing.. and they were progressing really well.. so i passed them at a restricted speed (i was going 25 at the time) and next thing you know i hear a CRASH! and a lot of glass breaking.. now the eninerr who was there ogt up from sitting beside me (we were in the control cab) and he looked back.. I got up too, but i had to stay close to the controls. We saw one of the poles had come through the window instead of falling the other way.. so we had this suge pole...with the insulators and all... stuck on the inside of the tain.. and on the outside.it was dragging and turning up the ground.. Anyways at the next station we pulled the stupid thing out of the trian with a little help from Passengers who have brute strength.. i'm not saying i don't have brute strength.. i kept one of the porcelain insulators that says CPR on it that fell off the pole and i use it as a paper weight on my desk.

speaking about nurses...

ladt week the guy i was working wiht cut his thumb on the closing door.. and he came in to the control car, i keep it locked now due to security reason so no one can sit in that car.

and his thumb was bleeding alot.. and he jsut yelled out... i swear everyone in the train must of heard... AHHHHHH!! Wheres the naked nurse?? (no offence) It was sooooooo funy.. i could hardly keep myself from breaking into hestericks.. then i wasn't watching and missed a signal.. so i hoped it wasn't red. the he ransaked the.. whats that thing called.. you know where thye keep bandaids, iodine, banadgaes kitchen sinks... in french its "premier soin" that doesn't help..

so tell em if anyhtign else needs clearing up.

cheers,
kev

[Anonymous]

Kev,
I must tell you that I did have to giggle a little at your "make up words" But hey I give you credit for knowing more then one lanuage. I tried spanish and it just did not work for me and I don't think I am the multilingual type!!! As far as I know what you do to a tree with a chain saw is cut or saw it down. I don't know of any fancy word for it. You have to realize I am from a hick town and we have hick words!!!As for where the band aids are I can deffinatley help you there. It is called a First Aid kit. As for my spelling it is not the greatest or many times my fingers go faster then my mind when I type.
I want you guys to understand where as some things I may disagree with you on (what little I know) but I think people disagree on lots of things and that is alright with me. I don't expect to agree with every thing every one says or for them to agree with me. I don't push my self on any one or try to change their minds it is not my nature. Just to clear the air if I am going to stay on the site. I honestly was wondering after reading some other post if I was really even welcome on this site but As to Ed's post I have found from reading that you are a good bunch of people that I have come acorss so far and I do like to joke around and stuff. I simply want to make sure that just because I may or may not agree with every thing that is said that you guys don't mind me getting to know you all better and vice versa. I am willing to learn from you guys and what you have to offer and I try to be a voice of reason. Yes I have lost some one dear to me, Ed hit the nail right on the head. I don't want that death to be in vain. I also know it was a accident and I don't blame the conductor. Just as I said I am tired of blame any way. There is no room for it, when pro and anti railroaders should have one goal in mind and that is safety. I am just as concerned for your safety as any one elses. I know you all try to be as safe as you can. Kev I realize what must be so scarry for you is that you are not always in control of the situations at hand. Like you said if you get hit you will die. And your chances of that are increased because of your job. I don't blame you would scare me too. You know what your risk are and I am sure you do your best to control a situation that is not always in your control. (if you can catch all that mumbo jumbo!!!) One thing about me though is I am trying to take in both sides of situations and see where both sides are comming from. I don't just jump on the band wagon and start acussing and blamming and insuliting. I feel it only fuels the fire and makes things worse and people close off their minds to the one important thing. Us, People, Your life, my life. I think I am probably just going on and on so I will shut up now! I think your girl friend is right on track Kev, training you right from the start(ha,ha) If you have ever seen George of the Jungle I have this piece of advice for you...... Kev, Kev, Kev of Canada WATCH OUT FOR THAT POLE!!!! Okay kind of corny but if you put it with the tune of George of the Jungle it kind of works (LOL)
Take care all
Melissa

[Anonymous]

Hello Ed,
Nice to meet you. You know I did hear the "I am sorry for you loss, and I know how you feel" bit. But unfortunately not from the ones it would have been the most comforting from. Well as for "I know how you feel" I hate that saying becaue no one can know how some one else feels. But the "I am sorry for your loss" We heard it from every one but the railroad people. I am not saying they needed to admit any fault but it would have been nice to know they felt bad that it happened. Perhaps that is petty on my part but it just kind of made me feel like they hit a cow or some thing on the road and it did not make a difference to them and yet it altered me and my families life for ever. Do you understant what I am saying? I don't know perhaps I am not explaining it right. Well any how to move on. I never did blame the conductor for what happened. I know they can't stop on a dime. I know no sane minded individual wants to kill any one. I realize the conductor surely felt bad that he killed some one. I could never imagine that feeling nor do I ever want to have to feel it. But I can see why people may think some may be uncaring. I agree that thought is misplaced for the most part. From what I have seen of this site so far you are a very smart bunch of individuals. I personally would not expect the conductor themselves to come to the family and say I am sorry for the loss of your loved one just as I did not go to the conductor and say "sorry you have to deal with this death" But it would have been thoughtful of the company with witch this conductors works for to send a note to say they are sorry for the loss. But honestly I looked at it this way. They did not know this person. The productive life that they led. All the people that cared and loved this person. The fact this person did not even begin to live their life to it potential. I guess I am feeling guarded about this loss of mine because I don't want to feel a attack about it or any harsh words about it because I did nothing wrong and I feel the pain of it every day. I have suffered the loss. I still do at times. So I am some what afraid of a attack. So I am sure you realize why I am protecting my own mental well being. I am not shack wacky or any thing like that. I am sure many would think I was for even comming on this site after having such a loss and not attacking you all. I feel that is not the way to go about. I realize that you guys want safety too. You are guys are not at fault for what happened. But it is why I get a little bent out of shape when people who have been in a train/vehicle collision get called names and are insulted even after thier death. I feel that by calling people names it does not get any one any where. It is a sad misfortunate thing that happens and I guess I see it as that person is dead but when that person is called stupid and dumb it hurts those family members that are alive and haveing to deal with the loss of that person every day and to have that person insulted just throws salt in a wound. A wound that they are trying to live with that they did not ask for or deserve.
I wi***here were alternative ways also. I agree with you whole heartedly that it would be best to eliminate all crossings. That is the safest way to go. But like I have said our local people, be it state or city, Don't want to fork over the dough to make it better because they more then likely have not lost their loved one to a crossing accident. I agree the kids are one of my major concerns. I love kids and feel they are our futur. When I go to a larger town and see the kids walking across the tracks at a area ther is not even a road or going down the tracks I want to jerk them off it and shake the crap out of them for putting themselves in grave danger. I don't have a cell phone to call the cops and report it (how I wish I did) if I did I would report to 911 when ever I see gates malfunctioning. I have had to sit and wait at a crossing that had arms down and lights flashing for 10 to 15 minutes with out a train comming. I have seen people get tired of waiting and just go around. I have actually seen pedestrians try to flag others around them (not a good idea). I my self prefer to find another cossing that is not activated and go that rout. I never have nor never will go around gates no matter how long I have to sit an wait if there are not alternative routs. But if I had a phone and could call 911 about that crossing I think I would be doing a great justice. But once again I fail. I should invest in a phone. perhaps it would save a life some day. Any way other then raising heck with designers (who ever they are) any other ideas to help? I try to help the kids understand. I have told them of my loss and told them not to understimate a train or a crossing. I only hope that they remember that when they become drivers(doubtful though)Kids have a way of thinking they are invincable. Any way enough of my ramble. Thanks for taking your time to help me out Ed. I just think I might stick around and get to know you all.
Take care always,
Melissa

[Mookie]

Melissa: Almost all of us have been down this road. Some more than once. You aren't going to get a sorry note from a railroad. They figure if you get hit on their property, that is your responsibility. Not going to opine on this - it is just facts.

You can't expect the train crews to shoulder the responsibility. They are neither management nor the people crossing the tracks. They suffer badly when someone gets hurt or dies.

There are a couple of people who want to take a pound of flesh out of the workers, which to me borders on being sadistic. Don't fall into that trap.

If you want to post on this forum, we will be glad to have a good time with you, they will answer your questions and pursue discussions with you. If you have a bone to pick, take it up with the railroad itself or seek out a counselor. Otherwise, they are a good group of people and will always put a smile on your face.

We need more women on this forum and I welcome you to it!

Jen

[Mookie]

Todd C: I am glad to see you back!

Jen

[edblysard]

Hi back at ya, Melissa...
You know, what I was trying to get across with the "I wont say line" wansn't that I didnt care, but the fact I did not know the person, but offered condolences any way would sound hollow and maybe somehow cheapen or lessen their life.
I would like to have known them, they had a huge impact on you, it shows, and must have been a fun and good person to be around.
And, yes, it would have been nice for the engineer and conductor to offer their appoligies, but you can bet the attorneys for their railroad forbade it. I have been involved in two fatal incidents, both a crossings, one involved a little girl. My engineer has yet to get over what happened. The little girl died because her dad was late for a movie, and drove around a stoped car and the crossing gates. Not going to go into much more detail, due in part to a pair of rather morbid people who turn evey posting on this site into their personal battle ground.
My engineer and I went to the little girls funeral, not to try and make peace with her family, I doubt that could ever be done, by to pay our respects to a child who had no choice, and who could make no decision or take no action that could have saved her life. She trul was a victim. Her dad was upset by our presence, but her mother thanked us, I think she looked into my friend eyes, and saw as much pain there as she was feeling.
As for what else we can do, I dont really know, the over/under pass seems to be the safest choice, along with a state sponsered public education program. And your right, the drivers ed programs dont seem to touch on this much. But, if you ever do get to see a operation lifesaver program, I hope you realize the person giving it isnt paid, they are a railroader who volunteered their time.
And yeah, do stick around, please. You seem to be a bright, well read young lady, who is seeking knowledge, not pressing a personal agenda.
And anyway, Kev needs someone to help him with his english skills. You did read his last post, "chainsawing" poles down?. The mental image of two guys with a chain between them, sawing away at a telephone pole is kinda funny.
Any questions, just ask, there are a bunch of people eager to answer, and jenny is a blast, she may not be a railroader, but she's working on it, and has a great way with words.
See you around, and
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Melissa,

i have a few things to address in your statement.

1. no body on this sight agrees 100% with anyone, you know what that would be like. it would blow. imagine a sight with a forum and everyone is agreeing with everyone? there would be all: yes, i agree, okay we'll add u to the list of agree-ers. were thankful that we have you (or i'm thankful) to have you disagreeing with me.
However don't turn into an M&M on us. those guys will do anyhting for attention. they post stuff they don't mean what they say, and don't say what they mean..


2. ive forogtten 2.. Welcome to the sight! my first day on here i had an argument with ken.. and it was a mean one too. it seems to be a great way to initiate soemone on to this sight.. yours was meek compared to mind.. i kept calling ken names and him me.. all that terribl;e stuff which i try to teach children not to do

3. you'll never belive how old i am.. i know this may shock you.. BUT i'm a few months shy of 20 years old...

4. yes Cut... thats the word i was looking for.. now that i home form work.. i looked at these kits.. they say right on them "FIRST AID KIT"

5. i'm so whipped by my G/F it's not even funny..

6. your a vlaid person to this sight, without your keen input i would have neevr seen the other side..

7. I wi***o offer you my condolences to you. i'm sorry for what happened to you involvong the railroad

8. You are an extremely mature person. It takes a lot to realize the conductor wasn't at fault for this accident (no ofeence) most people will do anyhting to blame the railroad, go out of there way to.. but your mature enough to know, and i congradualte you for that

9.. George of the gungle.. i loved that movie. so yes your rhyme makes perfect sense to me.

10. i consider this forum part of my job. like i told you this place is the part of the job i like the most.. i can help people and get them to realize, beacuse i sit in a lonely locomotive all day and don't get to help out from there.. like you i have this want to help everyone else rather then myself.

Actaully the very laste person on this earth i'd help IS myself. i'm so used to helping everyone else out.. i forget about myself. i'd help one of the M&M twins beofre me.

so yaada yadda.. i'm rambling..

gald you could be here and hear of my expieriences, and i'm glad you listened.. i print out often what Ed writes.. and many other people because i like to keep an off-line log of what happens. you can do that if you wish. i do and it helps

cheers from Canada,
kev

oh yeah thoguht i shoudl mention French was my first language, English my second howeevr i can swear fluantly in English, French, and Italian

[Anonymous]

Ed,
The mental picture you painted of chainsawing had me grinnin from ear to ear. It is a funny thing to picture! But hey I think Kev invented a new word. I think it kind of fits. I mean if you swim in water its called swimming. you drive a vehicle its called driving so why not chainsawing?? (He He.) Okay enough goofyness for now. But seriously it was very caring of that engineer and you to go to that funeneral. I mean funerals are for grieving right and I am sure conductors grieve also and I don't see any thing wrong with going. I think it took a big person to go and a even bigger person to show that they also feel. I was wondering. Is "stay frosty" your summer signature and "stay toasty" your winter signature?(ha ha) no but seriously I did wonder what stay frosty means.
Jen has posted in this discussion for the first time since I have and I am glad to see another woman. I don't want to be the only (as Kev puts it) woman thats alway right!!(ha)
In reply to Jen I don't need councelling (okay maybe I do some times)But not about this. I need it because of the kids and the husband! They have a way of making me CRAZY-lol. Just joking but it is nice to meet you and yes I may be full of questions some may seem stupid to some of you with all the know how. So don't laugh at me too hard. I have been called nieve many times in my life. I am probably the last person to teach any one English!! I find my own lacking most of the time! But I am more then happy to stick around. I am curious as to what new word Kev will make up next!
It really is to bad that drivers ed is not mandated to teach more about it. I think it is just as important as any other traffic laws. As for the Operation Life Saver in school. I have seen one. I realize you all are probably going to give me crap about what I am going to tell you but here goes any way... OLS came to our local grade school this last school year. I work there so I went and watched but did not allow my 8 year old to attend it. I had never seen what goes on there and with the experience our family has had I wanted to make sure that her loved one was not demeaned infront of her in any way. Being as young she is I did not know what she would say or what the response would be. I just did not want to take any changes until I knew what went on. I will consider next year for her. I don't know yet. I let her have the memorabilia they sent such as a coloring book, ruler, keychain and pencil. I had conflicting emotions about it all. I teach my child what is safe and what is not. So there for I don't feel that I endangered her by not letting her go. I in my own way was trying to protect her from the unknown. Now I know what goes on like I said if I am there I will probably let her attend with my supervision. I understand they are trying to help and I think that is great of them but I as a parent and very involved with my children's lives and want to make sure some thing is as it should be before I subject my children to it. I may not be able to do it for ever but I can dang sure do it now. So I imagine I am very disagreed with on this.
Any way thanks for opening the doors for me and I sure do look forward to amusement and laughs along with learning and making friends.
Take care always,
Melissa

[Anonymous]

Crap I just wrote out this long post and went to send it and found out I was kicked off line so now I have to start all over again!
To start again.....
Kev you will have to tell me what a M&M is. I always thought they melted in you mouth and not in your hand!!
As for agreeing 100% that is good. I will not compramise what I feel strongly about to keep from confrontations. (lol) I also like a good debate from time to time. I don't hold grudges I get over things and pretty fast. Another thing is I always say what I mean and mean what I say. Don't like to lie and hate being lied to. I believe most of what I am told (wonder why I have always been called gullable Hmmm) I in gerneral trust some one until I am given reason not to.
As to being almost 20- your a young pup yet. Just wait until you are 26 and some one tells you they are 20. Makes you feel old (oh boy I will probably hear it about that one from all those older then me) I am glad your girfriend has you under her finger exactly where a 20 year old should be. Keeps you out of trouble that way.(ha)
I am glad we can help each other. It is a good way for every one to be. I also think of every one but my self. I put my family first and formost. I will on occasion have a pitty party for my self when I am the last thing any of them seem to care about. But kay sara sara. I get over it. My advice, take it or leave it... show your girlfriend how much you appriciate her. You may already do that, but just incase it may slip your mind that is what this "old" lady has to say about that. You also seem mature for your age that is a good thing.
You know what? when ever any of you have a experience or story for me I will listen and I will give my honest thoughts if any of you care to hear them. If it is a funny one, I always love a good laugh. If it is a sad one I will sypathize. One thing about me is I love poeple and I love to get to know them. If they need help I am always willing to listen and give advice or just listen. It's that giving part of me. I always want to be able to help some one. My friends all know that and I am sure that is why at times I have a zillion kids at my house! I often wonder if I am insane. Some times I feel taken advantage of. I guess if I am it is my own fault. See, now I am rambling!
How nifty to have so many different languages. You could cuss some one out in another language and do it with a smile so they think you are complementing them-not that you would(LOL)
Take care always,
Melissa

[Anonymous]

I learn a lot of lessons the hard way

.. one night it was a late when i was done and i parked the train got off.. and got in my car backed up.. and in the yard.. and hit the ..thing there... ED... your not going to belive this.. whats the name in English for those Mini signals.. you know.. i know they have a name attached to themm and it's not mini-signal, gnome signal.. midget signal.. althought i think midget is the right wors.. os yes i hit a midget signal.. that doesn't sound so right.. i knocked it of its base so instead of displayinbg red over red it displayed blank over blank.. so i stayed there for an extra 30 minutes reconnecting and screwing the blasted thing back in. Stupid midget-gnome signal.

it should watch where i'm going.

or another time when i was 16 i was cutting the grass outside, and i ran over my moms cement garden gnome with the lawn mower and bent the shaft with the blade and renedered it inoperable.

my argument was there wasn't a sign placed that said "GNOME crossing!"

speaking about my Girlfriend, she often wants me to sign up for the Relationship advice froums because she thinks i'm so good.. we've been with each other since i was 13.. i didn't tell my parents until i was 16... shhhhh.. and now i'm almost 20...so that makes.. almost 7 years... Now many of you are wondering.. how can you date a girl at 13? well.. hehe i did.. lesson: don't let your kids use the excuse "they have extra work after school" more then once a week.. your welocme to give me your hionest thoguhts about that, i would be intresting what another female has to say.

back to trains.

never comprimise what you have to say , you might know this song that quotes what i have to say

"right! Quite right! your bloody well right, you got a bloody right to say! Right, your bloody well right, you know you got a right to say...

know that song?

i'm a die-hard U2 fan.. i'm their biggest fan in this world. that wasn't U2 but i think i know every U2 song in the book.

i was just wondering if Ed had come up with a different way then i did to expalin a control cab. i know he's out there somehwere listening to me.

lastly, 26 isn't that old.. your making yourself sound day of the dinosaur, aristotle and the late JC. there are a lot of women who are still hott at age 26... if that helps out any!.. i better shut up.. you-know-whom is around.

peace and take care,
kev

[edblysard]

Its gotta be the french accent....
Ok, its a dwarf signal, and a control cab is a passenger car with a complete set of controls at one end, often but not always in a small cab or compartment for the engineer and conductor. It is on the rear of the train, with a locomotive at the other end and the passenger car in between. An operational example would be the train is traveling south, locomotive leading(pulling). The crew rides the locomotive to the end of the line. Now, its time to go back north, and instead of trying to turn the train around, the crew goes to the rear of the train, enters the control cab, and the locomotives pushes the train south in reverse, with the crew riding the rear car. For a diesel locomotive, it makes no difference which way it is pointed, or whether it is pulling or pushing something. The biggest problem with push pull operations is the danger to the crew when riding in the control car or cab. The control cab has almost no crash protection, other than the window "glass" is a bit stronger, so if anything happens, they often are injured badly. Most commuter railroads operate in this fashion, its quicker and less
expensive than trying to turn a train around, or to move the locomotive from one end to the other. As for the M&M question, I am going to have to take a few deep breaths and see if I can come up with a way to describe them with out making it sound as if they are evil. Ok, maybe not. M and M are mike and missouri, a pair of posters who appear from time to time, posting messages that, at first blush, seem to be concerned with crossing safety. As soon as someone responds to either of them, well, unless your 100% in agreement with their somewhat rabid view and condemination of railroaders, they take you response and twist it out of context, and then make ludicrous statements along the lines thats we, railroaders, kill people through carelessness or neglect, and that there is some huge conspiracy between the FRA and railroads and railroaders to embezzle federal funds earmarked for crossing safety improvments. They deal in single sided logic, are both rather foul mouthed and rather uneducated, and mean for meaness sake. They have invaded almost every posting on this forum, and some how manage to turn even the most innocent posting and question into a battle, for the purpose of getting attention. They in no way attempt to help solve the crossing safety problem, but seem mostly intent on just picking a fight. And you are wasting your time trying to explain anything to either one of them, no matter what you say, or what your viewpoint is, they will attack you as being wrong, then insult you with nasty accusations of being incompent, or a murderer.
This is after they flood the posting with several web site address of the "I hate railroad" type. Both use FRA reports and statistics to "prove" their point, but somehow seem to omit the parts of the reports that dont bolster their viewpoints. Both seem to have, at one time or another, sued railroad over something, and both seem to have lost. They are a very bitter, and narrow minded pair of fanatics.
They are both very unpleasent, well, mammals is a kind way to put it. Neither one has worked for a railroad, and both speak on things they have no real knowledge of.
If you have the time, and the stomach for it, read some of their postings and answers to the replies given, but I warn you now, they are not worth wasting your time on. Truck with them at your own risk, most of us are through with them, they both have become so nonsensical as to be almost pitied.
And Kev, I have a pair of cowboy boots as old as you, and a hat as old as Melissa, I dont think either one of you has to worry about counting wrinkles yet.(thats a joke, Kev)
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Jackflash]

Ed you mentioned that your engineer and you attended the funeral of a little girl killed in
a crossing collision, well once the family of a
woman killed in a collission wanted to talk to me several days after the accident, they went through
the company with their request,, but the company
said no, and told me not to go, this wasnt advice,
it was a firm no.
another time a mother and daughter was hit, no one
was killed but the girl was hurt, the next day
we inquired of the trainmaster if he knew of her
condition, he said no he didnt, he wasnt allowed
to inquire, I suspect this must be common and
probably on advice of the legal dept.
you and your hogger, it appears got away with something that probably would not have been approved if they had known, be safe, jackflash

[edblysard]

They knew, after the fact. And yup, we got a lot of heat. But I used to work for the Office of the Attorney General, State of Texas, so when they began to cross the line from "friendly" advice into intimidation, I explained that our contract in no way gave the carrier, or its officers the legal right to decide where or what we do after we tie up and leave the property, and any it in no way forbade us from fileing suit in federal court if we felt our civil rights were being infringed upon. I then offered him my wifes card, (she still works at the OAG) and explained to him that she would be most eager to explain the laws regarding this to him, in detail.
Never heard another word about it.
Wonder why?...
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Melissa,
Just to give you an idea of what mike and missouri do, check the posting "question for a professional railroader"
See my reply to a young mans straight forward question, (ed houston 6/02/03 @8:59 and then read missouri's reply that follows 6/03/03 @ 12:08. I think no other comment is necessary, except to point out the the young man who asked the question was inquiring because he is a model railroader, and wants to know what "speeds" to run his models at, but missouri failed to even follow the entire thread, or read the question first posted. Nothing in the young mans question refered to crossing safety, accidents, death or any other such junk, the kid just wants to know how fast trains go.
Go figure..
Stay Frosty,
Ed
(ask jenny why I am frosty most of the time)

[Anonymous]

Jenny,
Please tell me about Frosty Ed. I have to say I am most curious now.

Ed,
I will look into this post you are talking about and then get back with you. I have a question about this cab that Kev operates. Does it work at rail yard or does it work on the open tracks. Is Canadian rail road much different then american ones? I can see you all are night owls but I think I am hitting the sack.
Take care you all
Melissa

[Anonymous]

Tell him Ed that the same circuit on the toy train lights would work on the big trains. Who gets the extra $79,945 difference in prices?

[Mookie]

Because he is one "cool" character and has ice-water running through his veins!

Are we buying this one?

Ok - his last name is Blysard - pronounced Blizzard - and sorry Kev, it isn't Bly-SARD like you would think, making it French.

Jen

[Mookie]

I can't tell jokes, but I can sing sort of....

LALALALALALALALALALA YODEL LALALALALALALA

I CAN'T HEAR YOU! YODEL YODEL..........

Jen

[Anonymous]

What does train lights have to do with the price of eggs in China?

Ed described it perfectly.. the control cab is like a regular passeneger car, except it comes fully loaded with controls and everything/ but like i stated it offers litterally no protection.. i wouldn't survive a car crash comming out of a curve.. if i saw it and i knew i wouldn't stop in time.. i might have enough chance to get out of the cab.. and enter the main passenger area.

wow Dwarf.. see i jsut read that name outloud.. and someone behind me just said "like snow white and the seven dwarfs." am i the only one who called them midgets? Like "snow white and the seven midgets"?

Jen good thing you cleared up eds last name. i would have wound up pronouncing it in french and it would have sound completely different..

in another post, somone said there a few weeks away from new forums and great stuff like that, i hope they make a live java based chat.. that would be pretty cool

Kevin's new word of the day: Dwarf
peace everyone and take care
Kev.

[Anonymous]

Morning all,
I am not to chipper this morning but I am going to make the effort. I could not sleep last night but I am not even going there!

Thanks so much for clearing that up Jenny. I know know Ed is frosty all year round! Are you a railroader Jenny or just interested in it?

Kev,
I am a mother of 3 girls do you really want my opinion on you and your girlfriend at 13??? (LOL)
well you are going to get it. No honstly I can say that 13 is young and in alot of cases those realtionships don't last as long as yours has. Alot of 13 year olds have a lot of maturing to do and don't often know what they really want from life. I made bad decisions at 14 and they just kept going..and going.. But It seems as if you and your girlfriend are very in love and it has worked for you. I think as long as both of you don't care what esle is out there it is cool that you both have been together so long. My husband and I went to school together in the same class. I did not pay any attention to him but as he says it was love at first site for him. Years later I paid a little attention to him once and thought no more about it but he obvioulsy took that as a clue that I was interested. I was really just being nice. His sister had died of MS and she was only 25 so I was a little curious about him. Any way needless to say he started stalking me(LOL seriously) He would drive around my work like 5 times until I got off and then he would happen to be driving by as I came out. (what a dork) Any way I got pregnant at 17 had the baby at 18. Finally married him at 21. We have had our ups and downs he had never even had a girlfriend before me. He does not communicate well and just when I think things are great some thing pops up to bit me in the back side. I learned my perfect marraige is not so perfect. But as I said no one or nothing is. So why have you two not taken that jump into marraige? (being nosey sorry)
Any way enough of my marraige life if you two are happy and every thing has worked out then I think it is great!
Perhaps you are confusing the dwarf with the midgets because in The Wizard of Oz those little people are called midgets! By the way Kev you are a gnome abuser!!!!(meany-LOL)
Ed,
I did read the post you suggested. Um I am not sure what to think or where to start. I think both sides jumped on the band wagon on that one. I guess Jeremy should have been a little more clear on his question. I think he got more then he bargined for, thats for sure. I honestly don't know enought about who makes the laws for speed or who carries the laws out. I can't say who is is right and who is wrong when I don't know my self. I will not jump to any conclusions on right and wrong. I do know that fighting doesn't solve any thing but we have been down that road before. (don't care to go again right now) I have to say Ed (I believe you are the one who asked) you handled the situation very well by digging into the question more with out insulting Jeremy.
I guess I should go for now I have soft ball parents to call about a make up game( fun fun)
Take care always,
Melissa

[Mookie]

PR - A railroad brat and just an interested by-stander.

Jen