Sight Distance and preventable deaths at grade cro

[csxns]

About private crossings.Will it be better to clear the bushes and put up signs because if a train hits a car it will lose a lot of time.Or tell the owner they cannot have a crossing.

[BRAKIE]

J,I see that type of foolishness every day here in town..I can not see why the railroads or crew is to blame when the dang fools go around the dropped crossing gates..If they get hit then IMHO I don't feel sorry for them-not one dang bit! It was their call to be foolish.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Ed. Typical bottom feeder attys. To operation Mike Saver.....Give me head!

[Anonymous]

Well stated, Wabash. They only want to present scewed facts. Not truth. Maggot attys.
Ken

[wabash1]

yes then he takes another statement and adjusted it for his perpose, it was amtrak hit this girl at 70 mph. and that there was no whistle board for the crew to blow for this crossing. well all they haft to do is call the railroad and ask them to have trains blow for the crossing and we are ordered to do this. with out fail. and same thing if a private crossing owner dont want this he can request to have the crossing not blowed at. and we wont. now if i crossed a crossing and it was a high speed crossing i be looking turn radio down and wait and see. even during daylight hours the headlights shine on the rails bright. I still need evidance that these people didnt do anything wrong. that it was the throttle jockey at fault. but lawyers get paid to lie and put doubt in your head. so hear i am and i will be working tonight on a 60mph train number 8 throttle .. waiting for someone to get in my way.... come on mike convice me i am wrong.

[Anonymous]

Also, towns in residencial areas have the right to demand slower speed limits. Of course if they don't ask, they don't get.

[wabash1]

1 other thing i forgot to mention but we have what is called railview the perpose of this is to take pictures of the rail as we are going down the railroad it is hooked to the event recorder and shows time speed if the bell is ringing horn blowing and there is a mic in the cab listening to what we say from trainmaster so and so is a bleep bleep to stop lady dont pull out bam. it is showed in court also this has help railroads win cases and lawyers hate it. they cant win and we walk away with people seeing what happens to crew members that their is humans on these trains. it is sensitive enough to show crossing arms down even at 1/4 miles down the road . what we see it sees.

[csxengineer98]

mike.
after reading all the crap you keep saying, and the few and very far between supporters that have posted on this sight, i would think that you would take then hint and close up shop... you list pleases....accidents... ext.. but when someone comfrounts you with data or even with the smiple question of... what are you doing to on your own time to get your point across... you tip toe around it... what have or are you doing on your own time to "win your fight" besides P!SSing people such as rail roaders and anyone that has a shread of common sence in their head with your nonsence postings here... i dont see your face on CNN pushing things in wastington DC... all i see is a little man with no guts that sits behind is "safe" computer... one on one with a rail roader that has to deal with the hazards of this job eveyday...my bet is you would not even bring this *** up becouse you know you would be outguned... not only becouse you have no clue what we rail roaders have to face everyday but also becouse you would lose the common sence argument... you want to sit at your house and rant on and on about something that you dont have any first hand experince in at all... your attitude about corporations makes me think of the hippys of the 60s... its the same kind of bull
***.... bottom line here is ...put up..or shut up... you like to think you talk a big game..but in truth...your just a sad little person that has a sad little life and are out of touch with the real world... common sence is not something that is handed to someone throw a court case... even thow you think it is... common sence is what sets us part from the rest of the lifeforms on this earth.... but with your logic... you want the people that dont have it...the "sheep" of the human race to be protected from their own stupidity... the strongest will go on...the weak ones will disapear...but you and your lawer buddys want to take advantage of the "sheep" befor the "sheep" disapear... that is all this thing is realy about....the money.... stupid people not being responsable for thier own actions..and the lawers that cash in on it... the rail road was thier long befor cars where ever invented... and to get a drivers licence you have to take a test... and some of the informatin for the rules of the road are...rail road crossing safty... i ask you this too.... if poeple that have a drivers licence are supost to know rail road crossing safty in the frist place...why is this discution even going on... but if reading this made you lose track of the one thing i want you to tell me and eveyone one else is....
what are you doing outside of this fourm to promot your cause.... becouse like i said befor...i dont see you makeing any public apperinces on any major shows trying to get your point out... on TV or the radio... i have yet to read your name in anything other then this web fourm...
so put up or shut up
csx engineer

[edblysard]

If its your driveway, and your property, shouldnt you clear the grass and obstructions, and if you want signs, shouldnt you erect them?
Or does your DOT maintain your driveway?

[Anonymous]

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/TA/ProgMgt/Grants/Sight_Eng.pdf

Just carry the sight chart with you and turn it around for the train. Tell the bosses you was only going 10 mph in a 50 mph crooked speed limit set by the lap dogs FRA because that all the sight lines the drivers had at the crossing.

[Anonymous]

I love it J. Make them lawyers eat ***! Chaching.....case dismissed. See ya later Mike the ***!

[Anonymous]

CSX injr. I think that Big Ed may be on to something. He posted farther up in this thread that this Mike *** may be tied in with an attorney and misconstrueing our posts. I say we shun 'ol mike and Missouri. They fire me up too, buddy. Oh how they fire me up! No responses, no reason for them to post.
Solidarity, and I thought that it was something that I practiced in the union, now, we have to practice it in this forum.
Ken

[Anonymous]

I love how my railroad barons and the guys I know at the fra are in my favor as an employee. Your right the goverment does not owe me anything. Expecialy seeing that I dont work for any railroad!

If the rail busness was as easy to maintain, build and suport, then there would not be so many mergers and fallen flags! The main reason they failed was due to the goverment regulations on the RRs. Those same dollars went to work building city owned airports, terminals, Interstates and little help was put forth for the RR. You ever notice how many streets run along the RR. Most of the freways crippled almost killed many RRs!

Ive seen these issues rambled over and over about who is at fault who gets what ect. ect. Any death is a sad loss PERIOD! If you own the property its YOUR responsability to call make arangements with the RRs clear your own Xing. If its a public road then reach the DOT or your local officals...thats what your paying them to do. If your dumb enough not to look at an xing EXPECIALY any non signaled xing....then your a freakin moron! The more I read (an personaly see) stupid people do stupid things the more apealing those STOP-DEATH-STOP xing signs look!
Dont be a fool!
Icemanmike-Milwaukee

[Anonymous]

A private property owner CAN'T trim the robber barons property for them it's against the law. Only FRA authorized people can work on the railroad and the easements. Nope it's the railroads common law duty to make the trains visible at weed grown crossings. Sure you don't work for the railroads slick. Sure are doing a lot of penny pinching for them. They only made 40 billion last year so they can afford a brush hog and a chain saw. How many crossings would Snows 60.8 million exit bonus from CSX have paid for. Over 2,000 kills he had under his belt. He should be a expert on what real "blood money" is that they are seizeing in the middle east.

[Anonymous]

Why do you lie? No way video is going to be used on the front of the trains where the railroad can't hide the smokin' gun when the gates/lights fail, the car comes behind the brush pile .25 seconds before the train hits it, and the terrible trespasser wasn't really committing suicide at all and their foot was hung.

[Anonymous]

Who pays you for lieing slick? Why should anybody have to call anybody. We don't own your business but they allready take a huge amount of our tax-dollars and stuff them in the robber barons pockets. Maybe we could supply like butt wipers in the executive wash rooms also.

[edblysard]

Funny, I switch in yard service, and have done so for seven years. Crossed tracks hundreds of time a day, walk around switchs and across turnouts just as many times, and have yet to get my foot hung on anything, except my other foot.

[Jackflash]

DONT RESPOND!!!Ed is right, these people know
the truth, this is a witch hunt for profit.
jackflash

[Anonymous]

Responding:

Up here, WAY up north (not) WE ave what are known as Speed activated Gates for Railroad crossing, (that was a direct translation from french) Based on the speed the train is going at, the gates will go down accordingly. So let's say... hmm.. i'm conducting a Via Rail train (Equivalent to Amtrak) and i'm going 80 MPH, the gates will go down so that there is at least a 20 second warning... Now if i'm Conducting a freight train, and i'm going 35 MPH, the gates will go down accordingly so there is a 20 second warning.

so in short, Based on the Speed i'm going is when the gates will go down. 80 MPH, they may go off 1/2 mile down the crossing, 35 MPH, they might go off when i'm 350 feets from the crossing.

Remember, This featurew doesn't eist for all crossings. but ~70% do have the Speed based gates.

Also, Most of the signals are directly after the crossings (due to the fact that Electricity is present at around 99% of the crossings) so usually trains stop just beofre the crossing. Most gates have an activity meter, that messures the activity present on the line. Should the train stop, within 4 minutes, the gates will go up. as soon as the train moves slightly.. the go back down..

in short short form,
we always have at least 20 secondes warning
Cheers,
Kev.

[Anonymous]

Missouri, your begining to babble. I believe you are doing this to upset railroaders and fans. Please stop this childish behavior. Also you just made a very serious accusation toward another man. Those kind of statments, when enough are compiled, can get a person removed from a WEB sight. Please have respect for others!!
TIMOTHY ARGUBRIGHT

[sooblue]

Hi Ed,
Sooblue here.
I haven't taken the time to read each post in this list. Judging by what I have read it's probably not worth the effort. I do have a question though. I have seen more than a few real nasty crossings. All of them unguarded and some of them are so ubstructed that unless your right on the tracks you couldn't see a train comming. For several weeks during a road construction detour I had to cross the mainline UP at an unguarded crossing that you couldn't even see the tracks that you were going to cross untill you started accross them. JOKINGLY I thought that this was the perfect crossing to park on and let insurence pay for a new truck. No one would ever be the wiser cause even the train engineer was blind.
My question (finally)
How does one go about getting a bad crossing changed?

I've read a lot of ranting on this list but I have yet to come accross a common sense solution.

I don't believe that the RRs could ever guard each and every crossing and I don't think that (joe blow) has any buisness correcting a bad crossing on his own.

I would think that the RRs would fix a bad situation if they were tiped off that one existed. Is that the usual way you go about getting it done?

Thanks Ed
stay toasty!

[edblysard]

Blue,
Whenever we find a damaged crossing, we call it in to our MOW, and they fix it right away. On a main line like UP, first I would contact their 1-800 number, it on just about every crossing signal closet they have. Then contact your DOT, or who ever designs you streets. Follow up your phone call with e-mail and a written letter. Most of the time, if its a private crossing, all you have to do is ask the railroad to blow the horn(whistle) for the crossing. They will be happy to. If its a public crossing, the carrier will refer you to the local street dept. If they dont seem to respond in a resaonable time frame, complain to their boss, your mayor. If that dosnt get results, go to the TV stations, Fox network loves stories like that. In some instances, if the obstruction is on private property, a building or tree, you may have to deal with the land owner in court. For the most part, in a suburban setting, the railroad will respond. As for a rural area, depends on who owns the crossing.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

3,052 collisions last year Ed. Think the railroads might have a hint yet? Signed petition is the best way with all kinds of signatures. Of course Minnessotta doesn't have any funds for gates because they spend the years budget closeing one crossing down and building a road down to another gated crossing and spending 10 times of what it would have cost to put gates at the crossing they closed. The odds are exactly the same of being hit at either gate. Whoop I just let out one of the RRs secrets for wasteing safety funds. Now the complete joke is the Idaho Shields. Like $800 bucks per crossing to put reflector signs in and they don't even put lasor pointers shooting from the train.

[Anonymous]

The statement should be 70% of the 15% of crossings have real time gate activation and 30% of the 15% of the gates have constant time gate activation. Depending on the crossing width and if the cross traffic lights are interconnected with the crossing lights where vehicles can be trapped by traffic the 20 seconds time down should be extended up to 60 seconds if need be.

This circuitry upgrade the tax-payers pay $100,000 dollars for and I've seen them do it on 20 mph tracks. A railroad favorite way to delete crossing safety funds so no NEW crossings ever go from passive to active. They save like $2,500 a year at every crossing that isn't active and do everything in their power to make sure no new crossings are added on to the maintenance lists.

[Anonymous]

The statement should be 70% of the 15% of crossings that have crossing gates have real time gate activation and 30% of the 15% of the gates have constant time gate activation. Depending on the crossing width and if the cross traffic lights are interconnected with the crossing lights where vehicles can be trapped by traffic the 20 seconds time down should be extended up to 60 seconds if need be.

This circuitry upgrade the tax-payers pay $100,000 dollars for and I've seen them do it on 20 mph tracks. A railroad favorite way to delete crossing safety funds so no NEW crossings ever go from passive to active. They save like $2,500 a year at every crossing that isn't active and do everything in their power to make sure no new crossings are added on to the maintenance lists.

[edblysard]

Ok, One more time.
When you were a little kid(pup, spawn?) and you ran out into the street, I bet your mom and dad got all over you. They made you sit down and listen to the same lecture every person has heard about crossing streets. You dont cross the street until you stop, and look both ways to make sure no cars are coming.
Not a hard lesson to teach, nor a hard lesson to learn. I practice it every time I cross a street.
Simple lesson number two, taught to me by my dad, and my drivers ed teacher.
When you come to a set of railroad tracks, you dont just blindly drive across. You exercise a small amount of caution, you slow down, look both ways, and listen for a train.
Now, I have never, in 30 years of driving here in America and abroad, had a railroad crossing sneak up on me. Then darn things seem to want to stay still, in the same place all the time.
And every single one within my city is marked in some manner, with either crossbucks, or the full monty of arms, bells lights and such. It takes zero skill to reconize a railroad crossing.
If I ever drive across a railroad crossing, the next time I drive there, I expect the same crossing at the same place. So I exercise the same amount of caution I was taught as a child, I slow down and look. Now, if that is such a hard concept for you to grasp, then I pity any offspring you have, for you must have taught them that it surely is everybody elses fault if they get hit in the middle of the street when crossing, or that the train is suppost to stop when they are on the tracks. You strike me as one of those clowns who flip on your turn signal, and change lanes, without ever looking over your shoulder, and then act all surprised when you get clobbered.
Now, I am not too surprised you didnt take the settlement BNSF offered, and you went for the big bucks in court and lost. Greed usually begats misery. Bought a Federal Judge? Ha ha ha, man, the carriers hate the Feds more than you do.
Besides, it dosnt take much to convince any sane and rational person that trains are suppost to go fast, after all, thats what they were made to do. It also shouldn't come as any surprise to any thinking mammal that if you get in the trains way, you will get hurt or killed. Even dogs get off the tracks when we blow the horn.
If you can add past ten with your shoes on, the next logical step is to assume if you drive in front of enough trains, at some point in time one will hit you. The odds are NOT in your favor.
I dont know what you expect there to be on railroad tracks, but I would suspect a train should be your best bet.
The person you "lost" at the "blind", "private" crossing, was that the very first time they ever drove down that road, or used that crossing? I doubt it, which means they were aware of the crossing, and most likley knew trains went through there.
Your entire series of postings seem to indicate your belief that, given enough clear sight, people can jugde if they can beat the train or not, and should be given the opportunity to try. How dense can you be? Did your parents teach you to judge how fast the car was going, and try to beat it by running across the street? Of course not, they taught you if there is a car coming, dont cross. Well how do you like that? The same simple common application of self preservation applies at railroad crossings. Dont you get it yet? You never, ever try to beat a train. Period.
How someone so lacking in simple shoe lace technology even learned to type is beyond me. And thank god a dictionary is a book your not to familiar with, your posting wouldnt be half as funny if you could spell. Lasor pointers on a train? Try laser.
Lucky for the rest of the sentient species, Darwins theory of natural selection seem to be proven right and working as often as you claim. By the time my youngest daughter graduates college, most of your neo neanderthal, knuckle draging, slope headed sub-species should have wiped yourselves off the face of the planet. Anyone who thinks that a train, for gods sake, should tippy toe through a crossing, just because you decided to drive there, well, that foolish mentality cant survive to long. Did it ever occure to you that you have a option? If you think a crossing is dangerous, then dont use it. Drive to one you think is safe. Why take a risk you dont have to? But that goes right back to the "its everyones elses fault, I have a right to blindly drive across train tracks when I want to." type of logic my nine year old pointed out in your postings. Jesus Christ, its a train, its big, its heavy, its fast,it cant stop quickly, and it isnt ever going to change. But you will never learn that you have a choice, either drive in front of it, or dont drive in front of it. Slow down, look and listen, or trust fate. One of the very first safety rules I was taught when I went railroading applies to everyone, reguardless of who they are.
Expect a train, on any track, moving in any direction, at any time.
Not a real hard concept. But all I have heard you do is complain. I need a little cheese and crackers to go with all your whine.
What I havent heard from you is a sensible, accurate statement. Yes, there are really dangerous crossings. There is also some really dangerous street intersections and really dangerous people, in fact, there are a lot of dangerous things in the real world. Theres guns, there Aids, theres a lot of drunk drivers out there, I know, my cousin was killed by one last easter. But you dont see me sueing Budwiser for making beer.
Grow up, face the plain truth. You, and only you, are responsible for your own safety.
You are trying to make the world over into some warm, fuzzy perfect place where no one is responsible for their own actions or safety, and anything bad that happens is someone elses fault, but never yours.
You and the dinosaurs have a lot in common. Both of you are heard anminals, and neither one of you ever evolved beyound the eat, sleep and sex cycle of life.
Jenny was right, your nothing but a mule. I would get a two by four and get your attention, but it would just be a waste of time and of good lumber.
Do us all a favor, keep your eyes closed. That way, you can claim you never saw it coming.

[edblysard]

Oh,and just in case you didn't know, it stands for,
L(ight) A(mplification by) S(timulated) E(mission of) R(adiation) or laser.

[Anonymous]

The railroad that cared about their employees would. You know the railroad that is required to have a SAFE working inviroment for their employees. A jungled out crossing is not safe now is it Jackflash? Like this Norfolk Southern crew messing their pants when they were about to hit this propane truck at a jungled out "PRIVATE" crossing. Notice how the story says ONE train whistle. That "says" private crossing every time.

Like Operation Life saver says you have to LOOK--Well look at the jungled out crossing with not even a sign. Listen to the story as you read it and it will tell you the train was hitting the truck while the ONE whistle was being sounded.

[Anonymous]

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/virginia/dp-va--brf-train-truckcr0520may20,0,2279019.story?coll=dp%2Dheadlines%2Dvirginia

Dang I hate when I do that. So I'll fine myself a 65 day trail of 20% of the CSX crashes in 65 days. Why do the railroads not report to the NRC like is required by law. 39 reports for collisions, spills, etc... last week for over 600 railroads. Cooked books or what?


http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=640878
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=640218
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=639429
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=643144
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=642482
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=642222
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=639588
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=642208
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=641068
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=643906
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=643975
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=643970
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=641079
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=641107
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=641421
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=641465
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=641755
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=642052
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=642097
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=642465
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=642642
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=638267
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=638529
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=639379
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=639630
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=639647
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=639964
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=640069
http://www.nrc.uscg.mil/reports_cgi/rwcgi60.exe?foia_bmp+inc_seq=640604

[Anonymous]

Ed did I ever tell you I repaired drivers education simulators. Yep, sure did. The $5,000 dollar simulation tape that was made for the trial, which the railroad drug the grandfather out of the bar and settled for $375,000 so it was never used, had .25 thats 1/4 of a second react/stop time. Will work out to a crash every time Ed no matter how you stir the pot. Guess what ED? The same engineer had killed another girl at the same crossing ED, and the girl had the same .25 second reaction stop time. You know what the qualified traffic engineer who the government had paid to help make the FHWA sight manual said Ed? Well he said with the sight triangles given the driver with all the sight obstructions and the Mickey Mouse cross-buck (yield) sign that the train needed to going between 8 and 11 mph to give the driver time to see it and stop (private crossing no whistles) and that a stop sign was needed. Well Ed the train was supposedly going in the mid-40s mph both times and who really knows it could have been going 80 mph and STILL no stop signs.

Did the stupid BNSF track foreman Cotton Smith Cuba, Mo. yard install stop signs ED? No way because he knows diddly about traffic engineering. Oh I forgot that was the first killing. Now since the second killing still no Stop signs Ed? The idiots have paid out over half a million dollars and refuse to put in $50,000 gates if the true priceing was known or even $100 dollars worth of Stop signs. And every other Private crossing on the line has stop signs. It's like he's seeing how many people he can get killed and how much he can cost BNSF by not putting the right sign for the traffic situation!!!!

The railroad could have went to Court and won according to you ED with NO problem. You think they forked out $375,000 out of the goodness of their heart or you think they thought they were screwed? Still by saveing millions on maintenance at all the crossings it still comes out its "CHEAPER TO KILL 'EM" than properally maintain the crossings. You know like the explodeing gas tank on the pinto or the bad tires covered up. Well bad crossings are going to be exposed as the same cover-up here most scosh.

The god awful Attorney we had Terry Brown, Belleview, Ill. who had another Missouri case which the jury had awarded $160 million Alcorn vs. Up/Amtrak to work with says "take this out of settlement or I'm walking" during jury selection. Then he lied to the Federal judge and said he was fired. He had no intention on going to court which was his "sworn" duty when he took the case if his clients wanted to go to court which they did.

So Ed BNSF had every opportunity to go to court but they insisted on weaseling out.And this guy Brasher thier attorney well he's down below the whale dung slimeing around I think.

Brasher William A Attorney
211 North Broadway, Saint Louis, MO 63102
[phone]