Sight Distance and preventable deaths at grade cro

[Soo2610]

You forget that BMW, Jaguar and Mercedes Benz need these crossings. Otherwise the Yuppy, money hungry personal injury lawyers wouldn't be able to afford their products.

[Anonymous]

Thank you CabForward!
Mr Editor, How about cleaning this up. I see quite a bit of discussion that is filty.
Thanks,
Mike

[wabash1]

the only filth here is you mike. so if you want something cleared or cleaned go somewhere else. Tim what you must remeber is that railroaders are thick skined, we haft to be, so someone like mike is not going to do us any harm. We live in a enviroment (railroaders) that we take pride in what we do. there is no glory no heros. we do a job we love. that is the only reason we do it. I dont consider what i do as work couse i love my job. even when i was a conductor i loved it. Now i sit behind the throttle. I was told along time ago if you find the job you love it dont matter what it pays couse you never feel like its work. and it is true. even though i need to pay the mortage and car paayments. the short is wont nobody run us off if we dont want to be run off.

[Anonymous]

Ever notice Mike how all the Operation Lifesaver people are all on the payrolls for the railroads, FRA, State DOTs, or some kinda safety council? Heck they even get railroad retirement. No way they are scream for the millions in missing safety equipment.Then you have the railroads actually paying some of the goof balls (attorneys acting like RR employees) on here to come up with it's the dumb drivers fault or dumb trespasers fault when the railroads ALWAYS are found at fault in court. Like the guy saying all the equipment is paid for by the railroads. Railroads don't pay diddly and make a small fortune in overcharges on what they do put in. Takes a low life to kill somebody then overcharge on the equipment that should have been in place to start with.

----- Original Message -----
From: pino40
To: [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; > ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; jonper@wcgnet ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail] ; [e-mail]
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 6:23 AM
Subject: It really gets old


...Senek said 46 percent of all railroad crossing crashes happen when the crossing gates and lights are in operation...

It really gets old seeing you all downplay the importance of safety equipment. Hey Mr. Senek how about putting per traffic volumn on this statement. It still comes down to gates prevent 9 out of 10 collisions and lights 8 out of 10 collisions. I don't care how you cook the figures. Why wasn't you raising heck "WHERE'S THE MEDIAN BARRIERS?" or "WHERE THE HECK IS THE VIDEO CAMERA ON THE TRAIN THAT PROVES ANYBODY WENT AROUND ANYTHING?" or "WHY THE HECK WAS THE TRAIN GOING THROUGH AT 80 MPH? Are you jury tampering by blameing the driver when you have absolutely no evidence?????????????

A person can beat a train on steam roller IF they can see it comeing. Mr. Senek why didn't the lady see the train??? Would the retirement funds have paid for the missing median barriers?

EMPLOYER STATUS DETERMINATION
Ohio Operation Lifesaver
This is the decision of the Railroad Retirement Board regarding the continued status of the Ohio Operation Lifesaver, as an employer under the Railroad Retirement Act (45 U.S.C. § 231, et seq.) (RRA) and the Railroad Unemployment Insurance Act (45 U.S.C. § 351, et seq.) (RUIA).

Ohio Operation Lifesaver was held to be a covered employer effective June 24, 1986, in Legal Opinion L-87-21 (B.A. Number 7325). Its purpose is to serve, educate, and inform the general public about highway/railroad grade crossing laws and to promote highway/railroad grade crossing safety throughout the state of Ohio in an effort to reduce crashes, injuries and fatalities. It has one employee. Formerly, one-half of its board of directors consisted of representatives of the four railroads that funded Ohio Operation Lifesaver.1 Consequently, Ohio Operation Lifesaver was held to be under common control with two or more railroad employers. Effective December 10, 2002, the bylaws of Ohio Operation Lifesaver changed so that the board of directors is now composed of thirteen voting members, of which seven are from non-railroad organizations.

Section 202.11 of the Board’s regulations provides that:

The employer status of any company or person shall terminate whenever such company or person loses any of the characteristics essential to the existence of an employer status.

A majority of the Board finds that through the change in its bylaws and composition of its board of directors, Ohio Operation Lifesaver is no longer under common control with two or more railroad employers.

Accordingly, a majority of the Board holds that Ohio Operation
Lifesaver ceased to be an employer under the Railroad Retirement and Railroad Unemployment Insurance Acts effective with the close of business on December 10, 2002.

[Anonymous]

Timothy,
You sir are brainwashed like the rest of them to think that it is all the drivers responsibility for crossing safety. How about looking at it from a neutral(can you do that?) perspective or maybe even as a mom or dad who lost a child due to $1000 sight distance improvement that wasn't done because the profit margin may be effected. If you think this is a game that I'm playing then you are sicker than the foul mouthed railroaders on this thread. I happen to know a mother that lost a child for this very reason. How about getting off your railroad high horse and putting yourself in her shoes. How would you feel if your daughter was killed and the railroad said in the trial; "Vegetation was a non-issue, we were never cited for it".
Mike

[Anonymous]

Operation Lifesaver motto: "All accidents are the fault of the driver". This is cold,callous and most importantly wrong. How about putting some energy into enforcement of sight distance instead of the propaganda that its all the drivers fault. The crossing that I'm familiar with at the trial had 70FEET of right of way that COULD OF given this young girl over 500ft. of sight distance. As my friend Bob Pines says: "you can cross safely under these conditions in a steam roller." its all the SHARED responsibility, not JUST the drivers.

[Anonymous]

Mike,
You do not care about railroad crossing safty. This is just a childish attempt by you to upset persons of a particular group. (Railroaders and Railroad fans) Please grow up or move to another sight.
TIMOTHY ARGUBRIGHT

[csxns]

Mike P did somebody get killed in your family.Or are you kin to Rhyne the boy that is on the angels on track that was killed.Just wondering.

[Anonymous]

Sir, I am a bit confused as to the point that you are trying to make. Can you please clarify?
TIM A

[edblysard]

Hi Tim,
I think the guy has railroad retirement confused with some type of bonus, or profit sharing program. The railroad retirement is what we, railroaders pay into as a retirement plan. Its the tier 2 tax, as opposed to the tier 1 tax, social security tax. When we retire, we have to use up the railroad retirement benifits before we can apply for SSI, even though we pay both.
Its rare we ever live long enought to collect the SSI, even though we pay it, along with medicare deductions, The railroad retirement is managed by the federal goverment, in essence, we lend them the money to invest, and profits, minus expenses, are returned to the fund. Sorta like a goverment run 401k, just less profit. And I dont think this guy realized that the last part of his posting explaines where the ohio opperation lifesaver program was found by the board to not be a railroad run organization, it even stated that the board of directors was now composes of one railroader, the rest of the board were non railroaders. So I was kinda confused too.
But the mailing list he so kindly included will be very useful. Wonder if he realizes its against most states privacy policy to use a state computer for personel use? And did you look at all the state address? Talk about misuse.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

WOW! There's going to be allot of PO'd people when they find out how freely there E-adresses are posted for the world to see. I dont even want to get involved in another argument about this topic....they always seem to have the same redderic.

[csxengineer98]

mike,
did she stop..and listen? probobly not... you can hear a trains horn for some miles...
my bet is..she just came up to the crossing...talking on a cell phone..or putting her makeup on...and since thier was not a train right in front of her...just keep on long... didnt even stop to listen... drove right out in front of that train..and payed the price for her stupidity... its sad that it cost her her kid..but maybe she is a bit wiser at rail road crossings from now on
and i dont like your attitude about us rail roaders...we are only fowel mouths becouse of miserable people like you that think you know how to solove all the problems for people that should know better in the first place...
csx engineer

[csxengineer98]

oh so a train going 70 or so MPH isnt ok..but a trailer truck on the highway going the same speed is exceptable... and they can kill just the same a train...i dont see you complaining about trucks being alowed on the same roads a the cars are... sounds to me like you got a double standers aginst the rail roads... or your a truck driver.. either way... you need to get your head out of your butt
csx engineer

[edblysard]

Oh, and I did notice this guy didnt volunteer his socical security benefits to by cameras and barricades, but he has no problem asking me to give up my retirement.

[edblysard]

Did you notice how many were goverment addresses, states agencies, florida, ill. even a fra employee. Wonder if their bosses know they play on a chat room/forum with state property on state time?

[edblysard]

And now that I think of it, thats mis- approation of public funds, taxpayers money spent for these guys entertainment. Bet thoses mis appropreated funds could buy a lot of barricades.

[Anonymous]

Our bureaucracy at work!!! Instead of trying to find solutions, they misdirect responsibility to others.

[Anonymous]

Mike, you said that Tim was "sicker than the rest of us foulmouthed railroaders." Well, I'm here to set you straight. You and your cause are sick. It is fools like yourself that cause insurance to be higher,(and the cost of just about everything else) and ruin activities that we all enjoy. All due to stupid lawsuits from people who are not willing to take responsibility for their own actions. A sue happy socioty. Case in point: we all know that drag racing on public streets is bad business. People should take it to the track, right, wrong.......you can't do that in many places anymore. Why? Because somebody got hurt doing it and sued, the liability insurance is too high for the strip owners. No more Friday night High School drags! Where do kids go now? To the streets. A small example of your sue happy think at work! Now back to RRing and me being foul mouthed and sick. Do you have the balls to tell me that to my face? Do you have the balls to tell any RRer to his face that he is "sick?" I strongly doubt it. What would happen in either case is you would rightfully ger your little sissy a*s whooped. Period! Then what? Well you would sue for anything and everything that you could think of and wonder why you got your a*s whooped. You poor soul. You are the victim of a terrible thing called being a ***! And don't forget that the opening picture of that piece of *** site, "angelsontrack.org," is two kids in the RIGHT OF WAY being helped along by their personal guardian angel. That is a clear depiction of how you people think. "Gee, I got smushed by the meen 'ol train. What did I ever do to cause that? I was only standing ON THE TRACK." Now go post on that cry baby site and get the he*l outta here. You are not wanted! On your way there, become a man! Don't come back until you walk up to a RRer face to face and tell him (not her) that he is foul mouthed and sick. (I would love to watch that one unfold) Until you have the testicular fortitude to do that, you are not a man! My sweet little daughter has more spine and honor than you. Now be gone with you!
Ken

[Anonymous]

Earth to Houston---That is all the state Directors of Operation Lifesavers e-mail addresses. If they did their day jobs they wouldn't need Operation Lifesaver. Like the FRA people could arrest themeselves for sitting train speeds without haveing the proper safety equipment in place, the Railroad people should take all the trains to DC and park them until the train speeds are lowered, the state people could have adjoining cells with the FRA, and the safety council people should take some courses in traffic engineering.

[Anonymous]

A 70 mph truck is on a highway with one way traffic going the same direction. Not 3 lanes of traffic with 2, $20 cross-buck (yield) signs with the drivers heads bouncing off the roofs of their vehicles because the crossings are so rough.
Trains killed somebody every .8 million miles last year. Trucks, cars , busses one fatality every 67 million miles. Almost 90 to 1. Amtrak killed somebody around every 250,000 train miles which is like 200 to one. They have to have the worse safety record of any company in the US.

[wabash1]

You keep saying that we are brain washed by the railroad. well as i see it you have yet to prove to me that you are right. i proved my point but you dont see it that way and i am sorry you feel that way in that someone lost their life and you feel it is our fault. the argument you give is that if someone could see how far away that horn and light is that they could have a better chance of beating us at crossings. It is so sad that you are brainwashed into what the lawyers wanted so that they could win their case and you fell into the trap they wanted. and that you still live this fight . but as with all fights you will go away like the hippies of the 70s the flower childs of the 60s what ever that crap was in the 80s. I do have one thing for you to do start a web site to promote your cause and while at it you need to also put a stop to these rice burner cars that these kids think they can hot rod and street race. be usefull and put a stop to toyotas and mazdas street racing before i go deaf from the noise these little cars put out. the only way i have stopped this from happening is getting my z28 camaro out and winning and sending them home. And one last thing get your lawyers out and go help the people in oklahoma sue the tornado people for the over aboundace or storms. oops i just got called to work i guess ill take the race of sight for distance at the crossing and go kill someone tonight so you and yor hungry lawyers can sue me. see you in court.

[edblysard]

Houston to Mars, or where ever your type of life form lives, thanks, that is an even better, more usefull list, and I have a wonderful use for it.
Houston out.

[Anonymous]

Sir,
May I ask were you found the statistics you presented in your last responce? They seem a bit skewed. The way in which you presented these statistics, are you saying trains killed more people then trucks, cars and busses? Who put this report out? I would like to read it.
TIMOTHY ARGUBRIGHT

[csxengineer98]

ken,
RIGHT ON BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WELL PUT!!!
csx engineer!!!

[csxengineer98]

tim,
its fuzzy math...you know the kind we all use when we file our imcome taxes...lol... to make things look better or worse then they realy are... but remember this... enron got cought doing fuzzy math..and someday the train haters will go the same way
csx engineer

[Anonymous]

Here's an idea, although not a new one. Make it mandatory for traffic to stop at every grade crossing, active protection or not. That way, Operation Mike Saver's sight distance argument will go away. Then again, he'll say it's the railroads fault for delaying so much traffic.

Also, he would want RR's to pay for the signs when it is obviously a highway dept. issue.

Then, Operation Mike Saver would say that the stop signs are bad because it would take away from his and his ambulance chasing friends business--no leeway to sue with.

Not that the mandatory stop would reduce grade crossing collisions, we see people run gates and lights everyday. But then the Mike's of the world could crawl back under their rocks until they find the next thing to sue about. I think I'll sue my mortgage company for letting me run up so much debt. After all, I'm not responsible for my own actions anymore thanks to lawyers!!!!

And as far as truckers go, most are okay. However, since my last job was unloading trucks, I smelled a lot of "reefer" on quite a few of the drivers and never unloaded a reefer equipped trailer. How many RR'ers would dare do this after Ricky Gates? So I certainly don't want some nitwit telling me about how much more safe trucks are than RRs.

I've said enough--for now.

[Anonymous]

Thanks CSX Injuneer. I get so frusterated by people that have no clue and talk outta their a*ses. While these dildos are nestled snug in their beds, we are away from our families doing our jobs. Sure is easy to riticule and talk sh*it when you don't live the life. I do my job and take pride in what I do. When I come home and I still have all of my arms and legs, stopped my shove short of idiots running the crossing (happened twice today, I guess that it was my fault or the RR's fault for putting that cell phone in that broad's ear!) I call it a good day!
Ken

[Anonymous]

Well sir: http://www.ncpa.org/pd/regulat/pd033001b.html first you go here. 1.5 people are killed per 100 million miles traveled a year which is 1 person killed about every 66,667,000 miles rounded off.
http://safetydata.fra.dot.gov/OfficeofSafety/ Then you go here and do the 1.02 and 1.03 querries. For instance CSX trains traveled just under 110 million miles last year so they should have about 2 deaths recorded right? How about 120! Or one person killed every .92 million miles not 67 million. Comes out to about 72 to 1.Then if you do the Amtraks which run 20 mph faster generally it almost triples. And then the railroads are going around increaseing speeds saying it doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

I don't think Operation Lifesaver likes me very much there Houston. Shel here is the Ohio Operation Lifesaver guy ex-Highway Patrol Commander. The Operation Lifesaver gal in Maryland should be more careful where she's sending her e-mails. some nut case might get hold of it and send it to ALL of congress. HAHAHA Wonder if Operation Lifesaver people get paid holidays or she is just skipping work?

----- Original Message -----
From: P. Hartle
To: xxxx40
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: It really gets old


Shel, if he's quoting regs, you might want to take some stronger action. You know about this guy right - and what a nut case he is. He's probably being encouraged/pushed by the plaintiff atty group out that way who's messing with OL. He's been mailing all of us. I kept him on just to know what he's doing so I don't get blindsided, but never answer him back. Profanity is not allowed per your server I'm sure, but you might not want to block him just to see what he's up to as well. Good luck. Also, do you have Sandy's email address? I'm leaving in a bit for Em's graduation ceremony, so will be out of town til Monday. good luck!
Pamela Hartle, Executive Director
Maryland Operation Lifesaver
www.oli.org
Remember, trespassing on railroad tracks in MD is not only dangerous -
it's illegal! Stay off! Stay away! Stay alive!

[Anonymous]

Nope, I'm sorry, I have to agree with TIM A here... where on earth are you getting these numbers from? I see you put some kind of web site, but purhaps you could try giving your stats in a more comprehensable manner. Telling people a whole bunch of numbers to make you sound impressive is not really all that impressive at all! In stats101 they teach you that you can take any numbers and, given in the right order you can make dumb people very easily swayed to your side.
What is a way to get people to see things the way that you see them is to appeal to their emotional side. Unfortunatly the more tragic emotional sidde I would have to say is on the sidde of the locomotive engineers who cannot stop on a dime or steer out of the way and watch day after day people who ignore gates and lights and sighns. People think their appointments are more important than their lives.
The real solution is not necessarly to put up more crossing gates, (although I do hope that communities will start investing in makeing more bridges over tracks) is to EDUCATE people on the stupidity of trying to beat the train. End of story.