Interesting Little Incident On The BNSF

[eolafan]

Oh, I agree with you fully...the only thing I would like to suggest is "we" spend more time and resources going after the "kingpins" like Bin Laden and less breaking down little doors of some poor *** in Baghad who somebody "screwed over" just to get a little juice with the man. Just like the cops getting their giggles over arresting a local street peddler of drugs while the drug kingpins are going fee. Kill off the kingpins and the rest will wither and die on the vine for lack of anybody to lead them. This works for just about any criminal or terrorist enterprise or group.

[canazar]

Oh man, I am going to step in it now, ..but... been biting back and I havebeen reading some of your thoughts, now here is mine. You will either agree or disagree. Either support it, or will hate me. Fine.


Some of you guys yack and complain so much about your loss of rights and "the Terrosits won!" You should sit down and take a good look around....... a REALLY good look around and be thankful instead of [banghead]ing.

If Big Brother wants to look over my shoulder and watch me pee.... Fine, I dont care... I am proud how it swings in the wind.

My family lives in this country. If it means keeping safer cause some guy wants to ask me questions...? FIne, mind if I grab a seat, I got nothign to hide.

You want to see what life is like when its really bad? Wanna know how scary life could be? Want to know what the one of the most life dangering things you could do? Ride a bus to work in Isreal. Heaven for bid you want to go out and have dinner......

On, Sept 12, 2001how many people were complaining we didnt do enough? . Amazing how so many of you have gone back to thinking its Sept 10th.

I am sorry, how many terror attacks have we had since? Exactly. Obivously, something has worked and some poeple are busting their***to keep up the record. If someone asking me some question is my part. Hell yeah ask away, I am an American, how can I help?

Anyone remember the little dereailiment of the Amtrak here in Phoenix back in the early 90's? Pretty sure that was a white dude (s). Some poeple in the G Squad havent forgotten that one, like alot havent forgotten what happen to the in LA back in the 30's.

Hate to break it to you people, but waching trains is kinda wierd and fairly unknown in this day and age to people who dont know about us. So yeah, you got a bunch eletrical equipment in the car and some bad***photo gear standing by yourself? Guess what, better be prepared to explain your self. Doesnt bother me. In fact, I have made some pretty good RR freinds cause, someone said, "Excuse me, what are you doing?"


Oh, cause you think your a middle age white dude thst gives you a get of jail free card cause your not a terrorist? Freakin please...... Anyone on law enforcement knows some guy who is 2 bit terrorist wont stand there, they will pay a white guy to do it.

You see trains and Oh My God! An unpatched whatever.... Mr-G man sees you stareing at the most senseitive mode of transprortation and hunderds of cars of chemicals, gasses, and military shippments.

You see this country owes you. I see it as I am greatful to be in this country.


Done ranting. Sorry if I offend you, I am sorry. Above rant is my opinion. chances are then what you wrote, offended me.

Best Regards,
John

[Anonymous]

Kinda says it all!

[eolafan]

Next thing we are likely to see is 50 cal. machine guns mounted on the locomotives and used to shoot railfans and a big sign on the sides of the box cars saying "Welcome to Osama, as long as you don't take pictures or use a scanner".

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy
If they ban scanners in all states, as ironken prefers, the criminals would still have receivers of some kind if they needed to monitor communications for their purpose. It seems the fact that scanners are illegal during the commission of a bigger crime would not matter to them. So banning scanners just removes another harmless hobby from the innocent people.

Exactly.

Who's mostly in favor of anti-gun laws? The criminal! Life is much easier for them if they know the citizens cannot protect themselves.

The point is, as richardy stated, is that passing laws restricting freedoms only affects law-abiding people, as they are the only ones that will pay any heed to the laws. The criminal (by definition) does not, and cannot, care about laws.

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

whatever, clown.

My point exactly!

[Anonymous]

whatever, clown.

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

No problem with railfans. Big problem with stupid statements. Very plainly put in my responses. Are you suggesting that I leave the forum? I have been around here a heck of alot longer than you.

Be OK with me if you left and I have been here longer than you if that matters.

Well Rich, I'm not goin anywhere unless you go and cry to the man. Wouldn't hurt my felings if you dropped outta here either. Do ya wanna start a little cyber flame war? Pretty fun to pop off on the computer from the comfort of your home. Try reading who the post is directed to....sure enough....not you. I guess that reading is not a qualification that big wheel broadcast engineers are required to posess.........Your turn.

Just stating my opinion, what you do with it is up to you.

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by techguy57

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSFrailfan.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

by ChrisBar
Chad, You make a good point on the scanner thing if you are a bit time railfan and want to have a heads up for a shot. The thought behind the scanner thing is purely because I thought it was a little creepy. As far as the train tracking set-up that is out there. I still think that software and system is borderline hacking into the RR's signal system, just my opinion.

Isn't there a law stateing that anyone who is caught doing this will go to Prison?
Allan.

Allen, if you mean the scanner thing, that would probably come under an old FCC regulation stating that anything broadcast into the public airways is public domain and anyone can receive and listen to or watch it. Haven't heard that this was ever changed.

Tom is correct. If you broadcast it in the airwaves it is fair game to listen. If you tamper with the signal ie MIJI (Meacon, intrusion, jam or interference) then you are commiting a crime. The best defense is encryption. As far as trying to break encryption....I would suppose it would come down to who's you are trying to break and for what purpose.

Dan

Correct...almost. Some states still have specific laws against scanners limiting who, when and where they can be legally used. As the technology changes sodoes the legislation and things are gradually easing off scanner usage. I know this after getting a warning about from an officer in Michigan that it was illegal to operate the scanner in my car. There is a ton of info at the following link, including tables about halfway down the page that list statutes for specific states:

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/transportation/radar.htm

It is interesting reading and evident that they are most worried about people using scanners to commit crimes.

Mike

If they ban scanners in all states, as ironken prefers, the criminals would still have receivers of some kind if they needed to monitor communications for their purpose. It seems the fact that scanners are illegal during the commission of a bigger crime would not matter to them. So banning scanners just removes another harmless hobby from the innocent people.

[techguy57]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSFrailfan.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

by ChrisBar
Chad, You make a good point on the scanner thing if you are a bit time railfan and want to have a heads up for a shot. The thought behind the scanner thing is purely because I thought it was a little creepy. As far as the train tracking set-up that is out there. I still think that software and system is borderline hacking into the RR's signal system, just my opinion.

Isn't there a law stateing that anyone who is caught doing this will go to Prison?
Allan.

Allen, if you mean the scanner thing, that would probably come under an old FCC regulation stating that anything broadcast into the public airways is public domain and anyone can receive and listen to or watch it. Haven't heard that this was ever changed.

Tom is correct. If you broadcast it in the airwaves it is fair game to listen. If you tamper with the signal ie MIJI (Meacon, intrusion, jam or interference) then you are commiting a crime. The best defense is encryption. As far as trying to break encryption....I would suppose it would come down to who's you are trying to break and for what purpose.

Dan

Correct...almost. Some states still have specific laws against scanners limiting who, when and where they can be legally used. As the technology changes sodoes the legislation and things are gradually easing off scanner usage. I know this after getting a warning about from an officer in Michigan that it was illegal to operate the scanner in my car. There is a ton of info at the following link, including tables about halfway down the page that list statutes for specific states:

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/transportation/radar.htm

It is interesting reading and evident that they are most worried about people using scanners to commit crimes.

Mike

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSFrailfan.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

by ChrisBar
Chad, You make a good point on the scanner thing if you are a bit time railfan and want to have a heads up for a shot. The thought behind the scanner thing is purely because I thought it was a little creepy. As far as the train tracking set-up that is out there. I still think that software and system is borderline hacking into the RR's signal system, just my opinion.

Isn't there a law stateing that anyone who is caught doing this will go to Prison?
Allan.

Allen, if you mean the scanner thing, that would probably come under an old FCC regulation stating that anything broadcast into the public airways is public domain and anyone can receive and listen to or watch it. Haven't heard that this was ever changed.

Tom is correct. If you broadcast it in the airwaves it is fair game to listen. If you tamper with the signal ie MIJI (Meacon, intrusion, jam or interference) then you are commiting a crime. The best defense is encryption. As far as trying to break encryption....I would suppose it would come down to who's you are trying to break and for what purpose.

Dan

[Anonymous]

And the Flame wars continue!
Allan.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

No problem with railfans. Big problem with stupid statements. Very plainly put in my responses. Are you suggesting that I leave the forum? I have been around here a heck of alot longer than you.

Be OK with me if you left and I have been here longer than you if that matters.

Well Rich, I'm not goin anywhere unless you go and cry to the man. Wouldn't hurt my felings if you dropped outta here either. Do ya wanna start a little cyber flame war? Pretty fun to pop off on the computer from the comfort of your home. Try reading who the post is directed to....sure enough....not you. I guess that reading is not a qualification that big wheel broadcast engineers are required to posess.........Your turn.

[espeefoamer]

We'd better watch out for those railfans. Everybody knows they're crazy and no one knows what they're liable to do.
The Art Bell Conspiricy Squad.[alien]

[Anonymous]

The Railroad was very safe..........That's until the Railfan showed up.
Allan.

[vsmith]

Still say this guy got himself into trouble, if each time he was questioned , he had simply said, "name is so and so, I'm a railfan on vacation from Boston, just wanted to take some pics, I'm a visitor and unfamiliar with this lines schedules so I use the scanner to know where the train will be so I can be there get a picture of it" simple, be honest, dont act like a jerk, and for goodness sakes dont lie or change your story because you think you have some inherent right to stand on someone elses private property to take pictures.

As for the guy who got the award, I'm still at a loss as to why people are upset that he was doing what he was told to do. So he gets a gold star on the fridge, big deal. Any heavy industry should be wary if for nothing else their own liability. After having a train here intentionally derailed by a teenage vandal recently, I'm glad someones keeping an eye out for possible troublemakers. Better safe than a toxic cloud of chlorine pouring thru my backyard.[;)]

[chad thomas]

Unfortunately in these situations you have to lawyer up to defend yourself. I myself don't need a 4 figure lawyer fee everytime I have to defend myself (not that I've had to yet). Mabee we need some sort of railfan harrasment insureance and keep a lawyer that specializes in this sort of thing on retainer.[;)]

Hey Gabe, hows your current job working out? [(-D]

[techguy57]

Okay, so let's agree that their isn't enough information to fully assess what happened. I'm sure that the authorities were acting in good faith for the welfare of the the railroad and their constituents. Mr. Strickland should be commended for his ability to recognize a potentially theatening situation and deal with it in the manner deemed appropriate by his company. But I have some concerns with some of the report:

QUOTE:
The suspect was questioned and it was then determined that he had been contacted earlier by local law enforcement agencies and that he was from the Boston area.

While Boston is quite a distance from Texas, so what? Lots of people are from Boston, about 600,000 in Boston proper. Does this make any difference?

QUOTE:
After questioning him, agents verified his response with the agency. However, his responses were different from those given when previously contacted by local law enforcements. So they began a search of his vehicle and found several cameras, a scanner, a laptop and other recording equipment.

Okay, so he changed his story. I agree that would make me a bit more suspicious. As for the items in the car, I often have these same items in my car everyday. I have a laptop with both an audio recording/editing program for work and photo editing program that will let me edit video. (Laptop and other recording equipment) I usually have a disposable camera in the care to take pics for insurance in case of an accident, and if I knew that I might get to see some trains, I'd probably have my scanner and my trusty old Minolta SLR with me ( several cameras, scanner)

QUOTE:
He was warned again that his observed behavior was suspicious in nature and he was told to stay away from BNSF property. He was also referred to the Federal Bureau of Investigation Homeland Security in Boston.

This is what really gets me. Please tell me where, in this whole story, the perpetrator in question did anything more than change his story to the authorities. So what, he lied? Do you see anyone locking Clinton or Bush up for lies they've told? While I agree it is not the smartest move to change your story to the cops, so far as I can tell that is all he did. No where in this whole story does it say that he was tresspassing or on private property. No where in this story does it say he did anything to threaten the safety of the railroad employees or himself. No where does it say he failed to cooperate with the authorites. All it says is he was acting suspicious. For that he was referred to Homeland Security, and I presume he will be monitored. As Sarah (CSXrules4eva) says :

"they can not JUST assume that he is a criminal. "

I think that BNSF did what they felt was right, that the authorities did what they felt was right and that perhaps this fellow did what he thought was right. The story, at best, insinuates that there was some illegal, or at least, some questionable activity occuring here, but there is nothing said of pending charges against this person. Perhaps BNSF is not in the habit of divulging this information for their own legal reasons. Regardless, based on the lack of information I find it difficult to know who was in the right and who was in the wrong. There is just not enough information.

What concerns me most is that based on the information in the story, I could go to railfanning at Eola Yard, tell a lie and be considered suspicious by Homeland Security. I enjoy railfanning and continue to enjoy it, but I have to admit this story is going to make me really paranoid next time I'm trackside.

I wonder if the local authorities would consider that paranoia suspicious?

Mike

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by THEBREEZE2005NYTX

[8D] i belive that you should be able to take pic of trains as long as your not to close to the tracks if you pullover to the side of the road and arenot blocking trafiick your cool but if your going to follow the train & take som pics let some one else drive

AMEN !!! especially when chaseing steam.[;)]

[Anonymous]

[8D] i belive that you should be able to take pic of trains as long as your not to close to the tracks if you pullover to the side of the road and arenot blocking trafiick your cool but if your going to follow the train & take som pics let some one else drive

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

So what is your point?

Are we to be reassured because thisemployee was "on guard" (read paranoid).

Or are we to be totally outraged because this "suspicious" person was found to be doing nothing more than having a hobby of 'recording' things. And now, because someone who obviously watches way too much news on the Fox channel, and is convinced that there is a swarm of terrorists just waiting to do damage in his little hick town in Texas, that he has been harrassed by not only two police departmentsand the railroad cops, but also he now has the 'attention' of the FBI.

And he gets an AWARD for this??

The terrorists have won. We are now officially terrorzed.

Of everything.....our shadows......ourselves......everyone.

AMEN BRO what the big deal some wussy guy is scared of a camera
and gets awarded i wish i was on a boxcar when he came down the tracks i would jump out yell SUPRISE & give him either a heart attack or a reson to call the cops[}:)][8D][:D]

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by canazar

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

QUOTE: Originally posted by the feed

by the way one of the top pics of the day on railpics is a BNSF engineer taking picture back from the railfan taking a pic

There is a whole thread on So Cal Railfan.net on "when railfans get fanned" with crews taking pictures of railfans.

Now thats funny., I dont care who you are...[:D]

Here is the link

http://www.socalrailfan.com/forums/showthread.php?t=362

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tregurtha

It's a fine line these days. I've found that if you're respectful of railroad property and respectful of law enforcement and are honest about simply being a railfan you don't have much of a problem. After the London subway bombings earlier this year, I was approached by the CN police at the diamond in Durand, Michigan. Usually not a copy there but it may have had something to do with the bombings. A lot of folks gather at the restored station there, but I happened to be the only person there that day. The cop asked what I was doing (I had a scanner and camera). I was honest, I said I was a railfan, I said I was respectful of railroad property and always stayed safe, and he's was cool with that. It seems to be a few bad eggs that cause the problems.

Ross R.

Good answer Ross. I guess from a railroad employee's perspective on that fine line is to err on the side of safety.
I got to thinking about the guy from Boston. There are a mulititude of great sites for railfanning in Texas. Meridian isn't one of them. If I was working around there and had probably never seen a railfan, I might have gotten suspicious too. He was probably just that, a rail fan, but he shouldn't have lied in the first place.


mike

[canazar]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

QUOTE: Originally posted by the feed

by the way one of the top pics of the day on railpics is a BNSF engineer taking picture back from the railfan taking a pic

There is a whole thread on So Cal Railfan.net on "when railfans get fanned" with crews taking pictures of railfans.

Now thats funny., I dont care who you are...[:D]

[tregurtha]

It's a fine line these days. I've found that if you're respectful of railroad property and respectful of law enforcement and are honest about simply being a railfan you don't have much of a problem. After the London subway bombings earlier this year, I was approached by the CN police at the diamond in Durand, Michigan. Usually not a copy there but it may have had something to do with the bombings. A lot of folks gather at the restored station there, but I happened to be the only person there that day. The cop asked what I was doing (I had a scanner and camera). I was honest, I said I was a railfan, I said I was respectful of railroad property and always stayed safe, and he's was cool with that. It seems to be a few bad eggs that cause the problems.

Ross R.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by the feed

by the way one of the top pics of the day on railpics is a BNSF engineer taking picture back from the railfan taking a pic

There is a whole thread on So Cal Railfan.net on "when railfans get fanned" with crews taking pictures of railfans.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

by ChrisBar
"This is a free exchange of ideas and knowledge. I do not read this forum to be called stupid. I take offense to you calling me stupid or my ideas stupid."

Read the first sentence of your first post again. You came off agressively and got treated with agression. Nobody said that you were stupid. I said that statement was stupid and I maintain that.

Chad, You make a good point on the scanner thing if you are a bit time railfan and want to have a heads up for a shot. The thought behind the scanner thing is purely because I thought it was a little creepy. As far as the train tracking set-up that is out there. I still think that software and system is borderline hacking into the RR's signal system, just my opinion.

Ironken, I can see where you are comming from. In my line of work untill cell phones got popular 2-way radios were the main communications. I always assumed conversations were being listened to by many ears anyway so conversations were always kept professional. Of couse there are not to many cable tech fans standing down the street with a scanner watching me work. If that were to happen I would get a little creeped out too I guess.

As for the ATCS monitor you bring up an interesting point, is it hacking? Off the cuff I would say no, the signal is airborne and you are only receiving. If you were to transmitt data and interfear with operations I would say yes, and you would be guilty of interfearing with interstate commerce. And I'm sure that would be a felony at the least. But that is not the case. The ATCS monitor is a receiver only and CAN NOT IN ANY WAY CONTROLL THE RAILROADS TRACK OR SIGNALS, and the creator of the software made sure there is no way the program can be modified to do so. I wouldn't worry about this too much, ATCS monitor takes some skill and effort to set up and only the die hard railfan will bother. You need a specialy modified scanner, a computer with a certain type of sound card, the ATCS program, and the software that interpets the data into a track diagram. Then it will only work in areas that use that system. In my area the BNSF transcon, and mabee the surf line are the only places this will work.

Oh, and yes there is an effort to outlaw the ATCS monitor.

[CopCarSS]

I think we should call this a Phoenix thread. It's certainly doing a decent job of rising up from its own ashes!

[Anonymous]

Chad...fire up the popcorn machine...


mike

[paulstecyna21]

oh really mr. hody tody god like smarty pants you have to run for president