Interesting Little Incident On The BNSF

[Anonymous]

http://www.bnsf.com/employees/communications/bnsf_today/2005/12/2005-12-13-d.html

QUOTE: Recently Ken Strickland, signal maintainer, Temple, Texas, received recognition for being "On Guard" by protecting BNSF employees and property.

One afternoon, Ken noticed a suspicious male taking photos of trains in Meridian, Texas. The suspect caught Ken's attention because he remembered seeing him taking pictures in Morgan, Texas, the day before. Ken carefully watched from a distance. The male subject continued to follow and monitor trains traveling south on the Fort Worth Subdivision. Ken decided to contact the BNSF Resource Protection Special Agents in Temple, Texas. Robert Pounds and Suzanne Jaroch, both senior special agents, located the subject in McGregor, Texas.

The suspect was questioned and it was then determined that he had been contacted earlier by local law enforcement agencies and that he was from the Boston area. After questioning him, agents verified his response with the agency. However, his responses were different from those given when previously contacted by local law enforcements. So they began a search of his vehicle and found several cameras, a scanner, a laptop and other recording equipment.

He was warned again that his observed behavior was suspicious in nature and he was told to stay away from BNSF property. He was also referred to the Federal Bureau of Investigation Homeland Security in Boston.

Ken received a BNSF "On Guard" award for his response on this individual.

Anyone who notices anything suspicious should call 1-800-832-5452. However, employees should never take action on their own if they spot a possible problem -- they should always call their local Resource Protection agents.

For more information on the On Guard program, go to the Resource Protection Intranet site and click Protection Solutions.

[zardoz]

So what is your point?

Are we to be reassured because thisemployee was "on guard" (read paranoid).

Or are we to be totally outraged because this "suspicious" person was found to be doing nothing more than having a hobby of 'recording' things. And now, because someone who obviously watches way too much news on the Fox channel, and is convinced that there is a swarm of terrorists just waiting to do damage in his little hick town in Texas, that he has been harrassed by not only two police departmentsand the railroad cops, but also he now has the 'attention' of the FBI.

And he gets an AWARD for this??

The terrorists have won. We are now officially terrorzed.

Of everything.....our shadows......ourselves......everyone.

[daveklepper]

Didn't he have any railfan club identification?

[csmith9474]

That right there is the primary reason I don't railfan anymore. I used to enjoy packing some snacks, a camera, and sodas and taking my son railfanning. It just isn't safe to do anymore.

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

So what is your point?

Are we to be reassured because thisemployee was "on guard" (read paranoid).

Or are we to be totally outraged because this "suspicious" person was found to be doing nothing more than having a hobby of 'recording' things. And now, because someone who obviously watches way too much news on the Fox channel, and is convinced that there is a swarm of terrorists just waiting to do damage in his little hick town in Texas, that he has been harrassed by not only two police departmentsand the railroad cops, but also he now has the 'attention' of the FBI.

And he gets an AWARD for this??

The terrorists have won. We are now officially terrorzed.

Of everything.....our shadows......ourselves......everyone.

The terrorists have in the wake of 9/11, robbed Americans of the most prized benefit-our liberty, and freedom to move around. Their gift to the American people is paranoia, and it is now oficially sanctioned, and rewarded.

[Chris_S68]

If we change, the terrorists win.
Oops... too late.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by h18w777

http://www.bnsf.com/employees/communications/bnsf_today/2005/12/2005-12-13-d.html

QUOTE: Recently Ken Strickland, signal maintainer, Temple, Texas, received recognition for being "On Guard" by protecting BNSF employees and property.

One afternoon, Ken noticed a suspicious male taking photos of trains in Meridian, Texas. The suspect caught Ken's attention because he remembered seeing him taking pictures in Morgan, Texas, the day before. Ken carefully watched from a distance. The male subject continued to follow and monitor trains traveling south on the Fort Worth Subdivision. Ken decided to contact the BNSF Resource Protection Special Agents in Temple, Texas. Robert Pounds and Suzanne Jaroch, both senior special agents, located the subject in McGregor, Texas.

The suspect was questioned and it was then determined that he had been contacted earlier by local law enforcement agencies and that he was from the Boston area. After questioning him, agents verified his response with the agency. However, his responses were different from those given when previously contacted by local law enforcements. So they began a search of his vehicle and found several cameras, a scanner, a laptop and other recording equipment.

He was warned again that his observed behavior was suspicious in nature and he was told to stay away from BNSF property. He was also referred to the Federal Bureau of Investigation Homeland Security in Boston.

Ken received a BNSF "On Guard" award for his response on this individual.

Anyone who notices anything suspicious should call 1-800-832-5452. However, employees should never take action on their own if they spot a possible problem -- they should always call their local Resource Protection agents.

For more information on the On Guard program, go to the Resource Protection Intranet site and click Protection Solutions.

It doesnt help the situation when the "railfan" acts this way, it gives everyone a bad name, especially after he had been previously warned that his behavior was causing suspision, another example of one idiot poisoning the well for the rest of us [B)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

So what is your point?

Are we to be reassured because thisemployee was "on guard" (read paranoid).

Or are we to be totally outraged because this "suspicious" person was found to be doing nothing more than having a hobby of 'recording' things. And now, because someone who obviously watches way too much news on the Fox channel, and is convinced that there is a swarm of terrorists just waiting to do damage in his little hick town in Texas, that he has been harrassed by not only two police departmentsand the railroad cops, but also he now has the 'attention' of the FBI.

And he gets an AWARD for this??

The terrorists have won. We are now officially terrorzed.

Of everything.....our shadows......ourselves......everyone.

That is what we are instructed to do! He did what he is paid for and he was rewarded for it! It's not paranoia. Besides, your foamer buddy gave conflicting answers....there is where the problem lies. He could have simply said, "I'm a railbuff.....blah....blah." As far as pictures, stay off of the property and I won't report foamers. As far as these tracking programs that some of you have....they should be banned. Scanners should be banned as well. Our conversations and operations have no concern to you. It is kinda creepy when I have seen guys post ETD freqs. What kinda geek cares about the ETD freqs? Take your pictures and leave it at that.

[UPTRAIN]

God dang fricken overreactive people...wait till I get my hands around their throats.

[joegreen]

I'll still railfan no matter how many times cops will tell me not to, after all what are they going to do............send me to jail.

So far I havn't been stopped. I live near the CNIC Freeport yard and the Police's gas station is down by the yard. They see railfans down there and they don't do anything.

[coborn35]

I dont think that we should stop railfanning. However, if we are worried about getting in trouble for nothing, may I say that country backroads are a railfans best friend. I primarily do my railfanning in areas' where the only employees I will see are crewmembers of trains. Based on my knowledge, the horn blowers and switch throwers are USUALLY more tolerent of railfans. Where would I rather railfan? Barstow or Saunders Junction? Saunders, 60 trains a day, and it is secluded. Not, (im gonna get kidnapped) secluded, but there are no-non crewmembers in the area. Barstow I believe is more mainstream and will most likely have more police. Even someone did call the police, I doubt nary a cop would know where Saunders is! I dont think terrorists have won, because after all, I am typing this.

[canazar]

Wow.... I read the article and thoguh nothing of it. Then I read some of the posts, "the terrorists are winning, we are loseing our freedoms" Blah blah blah.

Personally I think the guy shold get an award. Alot of things to think aboutt in this.

1 Think of it from the railraods veiw. There is no other industry that is as important that is so vunerable to attack. Think of it, thousands upon thousands of miles of track with no way to guard it. If I worked for RR I would be a bit edgy too.

2. Any one who works for the RR knows about railfans and foamers. Since the first tracks were laid, someone was there to watch. They know about us. Considering all the times I have had interaction with crews or RR folks, it has been quite pleasent.

3. I think the reason he got booted was most likely cause he was a butthead.
I have seen some of the attitudes come across the board here, and even in person watching other rail fans get roosted right in front of me cause they had have an attitude.

Also, if you read the article, is quite obivous why he got nailed, he lied. I know from personal expeirence, the biggest tip off is when someone is not honest. Its game over. This guy shot himself in the foot.

[chad thomas]

I myself have had kinda the opposite experience myself. Before 911 my run ins with the law dogs and RR employees were not all that pleasent. They wern't nessasarily bad either. More like a nusance. Since 911 though the few run ins I have had were rather pleasant. One incident were I got caught where I wasn't suppose to be (wasn't posted though) the officer gave me permission to stay where I was at as long as I didn't do anything stupid. The way I look at it, it pays to keep your cool.

[csmith9474]

Who knows if he actually did give conflicting statements. I know a bit about law enforcement agencies and how they handle the transfer of info amongst themselves. It isn't always dependable. Besides, they had to justify this officer's actions somehow.

[canazar]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

. The way I look at it, it pays to keep your cool.

Exactly.[^]

[csmith9474]

I guess as long as you are not one of these idiots that jump in the middle of a ROW with a camera, and stay off of railroad property unless you have permission from the railroad, you should be OK, right? I guess having a scanner is a bit overboard, but to each their own. There are all kinds of people that use scanners to monitor police, aviation, NASCAR, etc.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

God dang fricken overreactive people...wait till I get my hands around their throats.

I guess that I'm one of those overactive people. My throats right here.

[Anonymous]

What really frosts me is when I post the best, I mean the BEST post I've ever posted, and for some reason it doesn't go through and ends up God knows where in cyperspace.

So I'll try it again....

First of all, Meridian is a really nice town in Central Texas about 30 miles northwest of Waco. It is deifinately not a HICK town. They have tv's there and telelphones and they wear shoes to school.

The BNSF line is not really very interesting there, not too many trains go through on a daily basis.

The guy told a lie. He was from Boston. I don't think they see many liars from Boston wandering around in Bosque County.

And one thing that hasn't been mentioned, Meridian is pretty close to Crawford, where President Bush has his ranch. So if someone from Boston is checking out a lightly used rail about twenty or so miles from the presidents ranch, and lies about it, what would you think if you were a peace officer? I'll bet everyone from Hamilton to Waco is on the lookout for just this sort of behavior. Things ain't always like they seem at first glance.


mike

[canazar]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csmith9474

I guess as long as you are not one of these idiots that jump in the middle of a ROW with a camera, and stay off of railroad property unless you have permission from the railroad, you should be OK, right? I guess having a scanner is a bit overboard, but to each their own. There are all kinds of people that use scanners to monitor police, aviation, NASCAR, etc.

Well, I thogut useing a scanner was abit too much. But then I realised with a 5 year old hangin on your hip, it is nice to know when that train is coming. It cuts down on these kinda of conversations....

"When's the train coming Dad?"
"Oh it will be here soon."

3 minutes laters..

"When is it coming Dad?
"Soon."

Repeat until train arrives.

[8D]

[scotttmason]

The guy is a jerk. Anyone shooting private property, wherever it is, should go out of their way to cooperate with employees or security. When taking photos of people, they should ask permission first when possible. I would be concerned if some guy pulled out a camera and started shooting pics of me while I was working. Or the guy shooting pictures of my kids the other day - coulda' been some nut, but atleast he introduced himself, told me what he was doing, asked me if it was ok to take pictures.

Steam operations expect throngs of photographers trackside, but current operations have every right to be suspect of some guy circling their equipment. His being there requires that the crew to keep track of his location (for his safety) and what he's doing (taking pictures? collecting loose spikes? tampering with equipment?) until he leaves. Fans should take the same courtesy photojournalists do not trespassing on private property, asking permission when possible, answer questions, and leave when asked to. The guy is a jerk.

[StillGrande]

You know, it never ceases to amaze me that I can go down to Andrews Air Force Base, you know, where they keep Air Force One) and take pictures of planes landing all day long (shoot, once a year they actually INVITE the public onto the base to wander around and take a look at the pretty planes) or go over to a park just north or south of Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport, right across the river from the WHITE HOUSE) and photograph planes all day long (probably not alone either) taking off or landing so close you can almost touch them, and never be harassed or questioned by any of the various DC based law enforcement agencies (there are a bunch).

But someone in Podunk Nowhere points a camera at a train while on vacation and all heck breaks loose. Shoot, the guy should have said he wasn't taking pictures of trains but of all the illegals on the train and was going to send the photos to the IRS to show that the BNSF is supporting illegal immigration and providing free transportation to them. He should have claimed he was with the Minute men (he was from Boston, right?). Then someone would have given HIM an award.

[CSXrules4eva]

I do wonder what kind odf suspisious activity was this "observer" engaging in by taking pictures or filming trains? The report failed to mention his behavior, was it erratic, was it nutty, did he start acting like a fool, was he tresspassing, was he throuwing things, was he dressed in all black, or maybe he had a former Soviet Union battle uniform on? All the report said was that he was acting suspisious, well tell me what does that mean?

Another thing the report said was that he had recording equipment and such in his car. well, I hate to say this but that doesn't make him a terrorist or anything to that effect, he may be a psychotic railfan but, they can not JUST assume that he is a criminal. If they really wanted to find out maybe they should of ran his plates if they thought is behavior was so "suspisious".

Given this information I would say that that report about this situatio needs to be more specific and needs to actually explain to the readers why they dertermined this "observer's" behavior to be suspisious.

[ChrisBARailfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

Scanners should be banned as well. Our conversations and operations have no concern to you.

You know what, if your operations and conversations were that important I think the railroads would spring for 800 Mhz encrypted trunk frequencies like the police and other law enforcement agencies use.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

So what is your point?

Are we to be reassured because thisemployee was "on guard" (read paranoid).

Or are we to be totally outraged because this "suspicious" person was found to be doing nothing more than having a hobby of 'recording' things. And now, because someone who obviously watches way too much news on the Fox channel, and is convinced that there is a swarm of terrorists just waiting to do damage in his little hick town in Texas, that he has been harrassed by not only two police departmentsand the railroad cops, but also he now has the 'attention' of the FBI.

And he gets an AWARD for this??

The terrorists have won. We are now officially terrorzed.

Of everything.....our shadows......ourselves......everyone.

That is what we are instructed to do! He did what he is paid for and he was rewarded for it! It's not paranoia. Besides, your foamer buddy gave conflicting answers....there is where the problem lies. He could have simply said, "I'm a railbuff.....blah....blah." As far as pictures, stay off of the property and I won't report foamers. As far as these tracking programs that some of you have....they should be banned. Scanners should be banned as well. Our conversations and operations have no concern to you. It is kinda creepy when I have seen guys post ETD freqs. What kinda geek cares about the ETD freqs? Take your pictures and leave it at that.

[:(!]


And that is all I do: I take one camera (my 20 year old Nikon FM2) with film, sit and wait for the train, take a few photos, and leave. Once in a while I will see a rail employee who actually seems more friendly then not, and that is all. That is all that is necessary.

[canazar]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva



Given this information I would say that that report about this situatio needs to be more specific and needs to actually explain to the readers why they dertermined this "observer's" behavior to be suspisious.

"The suspect was questioned and it was then determined that he had been contacted earlier by local law enforcement agencies and that he was from the Boston area. After questioning him, agents verified his response with the agency. However, his responses were different from those given when previously contacted by local law enforcements"

Again, I dont think it was his track side behavoir that caused him to be singled out.. All though one could assume he had to be either in a wrong place or behaving in a way that caused him to be notcied in the first place, but will skip that part and stick to the facts, or what we have from the article.....

The biggest thing that will tick off or tip off (however you want to look at it) an officer is lie. When I volunteered with the Sherrifs office here in Arizona, you lie, regardless of how small or trival it may appear, they will be on you like flies on[censored]. I'd pry into you like trying to open a frozen door.

Why?

Well if you just lied now... what else have you lied about? What are you hiding? Why are you really here?

Even if he was being perfectly normal and in public land, you goof like that, the cops ought to kick you out and make you move on. How can you not blame the officers? How can you trust an individual after he screws up his story?

I have been spotted and talked to lots of times and NEVER had a problem. LIke Chad Thomas said, Just keep it Cool. "Here is my stuff, here is why I am here. What can I say officer, I dig the trains man. its cheaper than golf ya know"? Yes, it is a different age and we have to be aware of that and play by the rules. If we do, I see no reason why it still wont be "like the good 'ole days".

Maybe people have had different expeirences, maybe I have been lucky, maybe I was just nicer than you, maybe I am out west and the attitude is different. What ever the case, I have never had a problem and nothing but the best treatment from guys, who considering are working, given to me.

Best Regards
John k

[selector]

At least one response above suggests that the security folks are ***ed. They are ***ed if they do their job, and ***ed if they fail. Can't win with some people.[V]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChrisBARailfan

Originally posted by ironken

Scanners should be banned as well. Our conversations and operations have no concern to you.

You know what, if your operations and conversations were that important I think the railroads would spring for 800 Mhz encrypted trunk frequencies like the police and other law enforcement agencies use.

You know what, that was a stupid statement! If our conversations are so unimportant as you elude to, then riddle me this. Why do you guys listen to them? The conversations are important to the safe movement of freight. Ever heard of Hazmat? You are from KCMO. I know it well. Put some hazmat on the ground near Kemper or in a more residential area and see what happens.

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