helper engines

[wabash1]

Not taking pot shots and wont. i can say that with a standard setup. i link the box to the headend. i can go to any other engine and put the number in and get a reading and a link also. this is not suposed to happen but it does. So i can say that you are correct in getting a reading. The real question is the fra says that all train air is operated by the lead unit. so here are the questions

1) If the lead loco controls the air then when you cut awy on the fly does the helper go into emergency. (i am not sure how dist power works totaly)

2)How fast is recovery of the air system of a dist power consist.

3) is there a exception to distributed power on cutting on the fly

4)who is the people foolish enough to cut on the fly with out testing their air brakes or being in control of braking system after being cut away on a mountain side

I have and do work pusher service (not fun) and from what been said here it is not safe. pushers are not safe. I am aware of the basic of dist power but this seems way out of line.

[Jackflash]

J. I have never seen helper link, I know nothing
about it, as for DP trains, after an emergency
application the brake handle has to stay in the
emergency position a little longer, about 30 sec.
longer than what is normal, but, once the system
is re-set recharging is faster because the brake
pipe is being supplied with air from not only
the head end, but each DP locomotive in the train.
With DP whenever a cut is made in the train the
engineer has to set the controls to the "SET OUT"
mode, if he dosent do this both sides of the cut
will go into emergency, with DP you would never
cut off on the fly, I was only drawing a parallel
with distributed power, meaning it probably was
radio controled, the helper link was probably
set up to receive radio signals from the HOT
device on the train being helped, most likely,
when helper link pulls the pin on the helper
loco. it also returns "cut in" brake status on the
helper loco. (remember, with the brakes set to
lead-cut out you still have independent brakes)
like I said I know nothing at all about how helper
link works all this is just guessing
One last thing concerning FRA, only the lead engine is suppose to supply air to the train, but
with distributed power all DP locomotives supply
the brake pipe ( and reduce it too )jackflash

[Anonymous]

I'll tell you what I know. My knowledge is limited.
1) Helper link is not the same as dist power. The lead unit does not control the helper throttle (I don't think so anyway). I do know that since there is no physical trainline between the train and helper there are no emergencies when cut off.
2)on dist power consists, it still takes 60 sec. for the PCS to reset on the lead and the remote, when the lead starts charging and the remote sences brake pipe pressure, then it will begin charging as well, so you are charging from both ends.
3)As far as I know dist power cannot be cut off on the fly. You can from a stop put the lead consist in setout mode and remain linked (for adding/removing power to the lead consist. The lead unit, however cannot be changed without unlinking and re setting up DP. Once you come back against your train, you would put the lead unit back in normal mode and you are ready to go. With the exception on a brake test.
4)The brake pipe on the train has never been changed nor has the helper's brake pipe been changed. Not one angle coc has been turned. Fred is still cut in and the helper unit still has control of his brakes. I stated in an earlier post that once dialed in the helper consist mimicks the brake apps. of the train. I spoke out of turn here. It may just be set up to go into emergency if the train does.....I don't know for sure.

[Jackflash]

Forget Distributed Power, No I'm sure helper link
is NOT like DP, I was only drawing a parallel, thinking in terms of radio linkage (brake pipe only !!) The engineer would still control his
throttle and independent brake, the engineer on the train BEING helped, could, if need be, via
radio linkage set the helper locomotives into
emergency, knocking down power and applying the
brakes on the helper consist (all above is a
educated guess at best, forget DP) jackflash

[wabash1]

in pusher service the engineer is in control of his throttle and independant. but we are conected to brake pipe so incase of train in emergency the power gets cut (pcs) Now with the automatic cut out when the lead unit makes his recovery everything resets at that time. With the brake pipe cut in that is how the pusher knows what the air is doing. In disp power there is no one there so it is controlled by the engineer by radio link.. My real question was who is going to release on the fly when they could be killed by cutting on the fly. and how they bypass the fra ruling that they are not allowed to cut on the fly. the info you have about pushers is good but leave it to me to get technical. couse i wanted to know more.

[Jackflash]

J I too would like to know more about this,
maybe someone who does will put up a post here
and tell us. jackflash

[Anonymous]

Jack, I was responding to Wabash's post. I wasn't thrashing you on the DP deal
Ken

[Jackflash]

Ken, I didnt take it that way, thank you, see what
you can find out about this, I believe we would
all like to know, it is interesting. jackflash

[Anonymous]

I'm a flatlander now in KS. The next time I talk to my bud in Gillette, I'll ask. He works a helper regularly.
Ken