"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 So what kind of goods can be shipped, other than mail, on HSL?
QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 How much more blasted proof do you need, a mushroom cloud over your home town? He use the gosh-darn things ten time before we invaded. All of those people could see the proof, man since those people aren't very smart you must even less smart. WARNING BIG FACT AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! “He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.” Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18,1998. HERE IS YOUR PROOF! http://www.sundayherald.com/39252 [I] Since 1983? that was 22 years ago, and we invaded in 1993, he didnt use them. We go again in 2002 and they find nothing. Again all your facts are based on pre-invasion intelligence that was openly criticized for being flawed by our allies. the facts of how and why have changed now. If our fearless leader had waited two more month until Hans Blicks (my spelling) report was released I wonder how much support congress or the public would have given him. Saddam had them, used them, got his nose bloodied in 93 and dumped them. But keep up all appearances to his nieghbors and the UN to keep the apperance of a threat so he could the US and the UN off balance and remain in power. The truth of this was becoming known, so Bush had to act before they could risk a public change of opinion. If your worried about a mushroom cloud, why the hell are they not doing something about North Korea? Iran? they are MUCH greater risks. Yet we are now stuck up to our knees in Iraq with no real way out. PS ...Bin Boy is still giving us the finger every day he remains free, and thats my principle beef with Bush-Boy! Anyway this topic is going all over the place, I've stated my last post of this as the original topic is now irrelevant...there will be no HSR in this country, we wont have Amtrack for much longer. Bush and his cadre of idiots are dooming America to air-cattle and freeway schlepping. Maybe we will see some of these soon to be ex-Amtrack Genesis units hauling double-stacks or triple-crowns in the near future....[}:)]
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 How much more blasted proof do you need, a mushroom cloud over your home town? He use the gosh-darn things ten time before we invaded. All of those people could see the proof, man since those people aren't very smart you must even less smart. WARNING BIG FACT AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! “He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.” Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18,1998. HERE IS YOUR PROOF! http://www.sundayherald.com/39252 [I]
Have fun with your trains
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton Tom and others. What you have to understand is that James has a little problem with the concept of before and after. It seems like everybody agreed that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and so we invaded Iraq. Apparently Saddam must have seen us coming and flushed them all down the toilet, because after spending tens of millions of dollars looking all over the place we could not find any WMD's. Either that or Saddam now has his WMD's hidden somewhere in his jail cell. At any rate if we start spending government money on HSR, we will never find the WMD's and before we know it Idaho will be blown up. YES. I showed plenty of proof he had them. We weren't expecting to stroll in and ask for them, he wasn’t that stupid, we looked and if you read the article, found some. We didn't known he had destroyed most of it before we invaded, so we had to look. Other reasons for going in were presented, but were forgotten. This cricket keeps telling me to stick to railroads.
QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton Tom and others. What you have to understand is that James has a little problem with the concept of before and after. It seems like everybody agreed that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and so we invaded Iraq. Apparently Saddam must have seen us coming and flushed them all down the toilet, because after spending tens of millions of dollars looking all over the place we could not find any WMD's. Either that or Saddam now has his WMD's hidden somewhere in his jail cell. At any rate if we start spending government money on HSR, we will never find the WMD's and before we know it Idaho will be blown up.
Five out of four people have trouble with fractions. -AnonymousThree may keep a secret, if two of them are dead. -Benjamin Franklin "You don't have to be Jeeves to love butlers, but it helps." (Followers of Levi's Real Jewish Rye will get this one) -Ed K "A potted watch never boils." -Ed Kowal If it's not fun, why do it ? -Ben & Jerry
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 As to a HSL being viewed similar to a road, you may be thinking along the lines of a false premise. Everyone uses roads.
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 How much more blasted proof do you need, a mushroom cloud over your home town? He use the gosh-darn things ten time before we invaded. All of those people could see the proof, man since those people aren't very smart you must even less smart. WARNING BIG FACT AHEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! “He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.” Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18,1998. HERE IS YOUR PROOF! http://www.sundayherald.com/39252 [I] Oh, I don't know. Maybe since we've occupied the country for a few years, if we FOUND SOME.
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Lotus - RE: Your statement "Only a (sadly) slender amount of the population would use a HSL" is true for passenger HSR, but we all benefit from freight transportation expediency, so a freight HSR system would have societal benefits not seen in a passenger HSR system. Murphy, I ain't eatin popcorn, I'm munching Cheez-It's. Get your own box!
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 QUOTE: Choose, hmmm..Funny, I didnt have any say in going to Iraq? Billions spent every week there...I didnt have any say in a massive tax cut for the wealthy, lets watch that deficit soar like a Saturn V at takeoff! I didnt have any say yet I'm told these are for the national good? The amount of money spent in Iraq since Bush flew his Premature "Mission Accomplished" banner could have build a HSR system across the entire country. Yet I dont here any complaints about the millions being spoon fed to no-bid contract companies like Haliburton, wasted on boondoggle military programs like the Centurian Self Propelled Howitzer or the welfare for the rich taxcuts that our children are going to pay through the nose for. We didnt have a National Referendum for any of these yet here they are. No one had a choice; the choice was made on September 11th , when were brutally attacked by the tyrants of the middle east (Afghanistan is in the Middle East? Sheeooot I thought that was part of Asia) . If Saddam was not helping the terrorist, why are they all in Iraq, (because they poured over in the border from Iran and Syria spoiling to kill as many American GIs as they could..Saddam's ego would tolerate no rivals like Bin Laden) we aren’t the majority of our enemy’s in Iraq are not citizens of Iraqi. You had plenty of say on the tax cuts, you can vote, you can talk about it, lot more. (I do vote, voted last night , but the fact is that unless the majority of my fellow citizens vote the same as I do, then I have no choice but to live with the decisions those I oppose in office have made, if the present regime decides to end all taxation for those making $1M a year and the congress and senate aprrove it, is that my vote being considered?, just a thought) The proof is in the pudding, we haven’t been attacked (Spain, Britain, and Thailand might have something to say about that, they are afterall our allies and might disagree) , we must be doing something right. (Maybe, or its just that by being in Iraq, we are giving them a much easier way to get close to our troops and create havoc)So what is the big difference between paying Halliburton to drill for your oil and a government funded HSL? I am for neither, just for the record. I suppose the B-52, B-2, M-60 tank, and M-16 rifle, were all boondoggles. (No, but the Centurian, the B-1, and the original Bradleys were big fiascos, it took a big fix to get the Bradley made right) and the We can’t keep the country safe if we don’t invest into our own security. In fact we were told to. ( I dont disagree with that, I just wi***o see more logical approach to it, to me a good example of that would be the Preditor, can stay aloft for hours, take out targets, without risking a pilots life)QUOTE: Our government makes decisions that no one has a real say over they always have, thats the way government works. That’s the problem with government, it needs to be kept small. Government is not reason, it is not eloquence; it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.- George Washington. As for the WMD here is the proof. Now view the hypocrisy of the left in all it’s glory: “One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.” President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998 “If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously dimini***he threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.” President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998. “Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face.” Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998. “He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.” Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18,1998. “[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998 “Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998. “Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.” Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999. “There is no doubt that … Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies.” Letter to President Bush, Signed by Joe Lieberman (D-CT), John McCain (R-AZ) and others, Dec. 5, 2001 “We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandated of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them.” Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002. “We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.” Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002. “Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002. “We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.” Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002. “The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons…” Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002. “I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force– if necessary– to disarm Saddam Hussein because I b believe that a deadly****nal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.” Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002. “There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years … We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction.” Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002. “He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do” Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002. “In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members … It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.” Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002. “We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction.” Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002. “[W]without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime … He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction … So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real …” Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003. How interesting it is that all these Democrats who do not believe WMD’s exist now, thought they existed just a year ago or when a Democrat was in the White House. I find this “Let’s put the American people in mortal danger so I can get elected President” ethic to be highly disturbing. The proof is in the pudding.
QUOTE: Choose, hmmm..Funny, I didnt have any say in going to Iraq? Billions spent every week there...I didnt have any say in a massive tax cut for the wealthy, lets watch that deficit soar like a Saturn V at takeoff! I didnt have any say yet I'm told these are for the national good? The amount of money spent in Iraq since Bush flew his Premature "Mission Accomplished" banner could have build a HSR system across the entire country. Yet I dont here any complaints about the millions being spoon fed to no-bid contract companies like Haliburton, wasted on boondoggle military programs like the Centurian Self Propelled Howitzer or the welfare for the rich taxcuts that our children are going to pay through the nose for. We didnt have a National Referendum for any of these yet here they are.
QUOTE: Our government makes decisions that no one has a real say over they always have, thats the way government works.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 QUOTE: Where did I ever say I wanted the US to operate like France? thats out of context. I just said government funding of HSR is a good idea. I can tell you've never been to France...Actually visiting a place before you condemn it is always a good idea, I used to think Italy was a dump, till I spent some time there, now I wont hesitate to take a visit there ...Ah Venice! France is a beautiful place, amazing country sides, terrific wine, food, OH the cheeses! But if you dont like France might I suggest Japan? Perhaps the most awesome national rail system in the world, all funded by the government, and great sushi too! It is apparent you have not been there recently either. Have you looked at the headlines about France; the place is in a near civil war. You always want socialism, and France is run on total socialism, which is just a mild from of communism. People don’t like working to pay for nonsense like that, so they get mad and burn things. France will never compare to America, head out to Idaho, and take a look at the wide-open country on an early morning, no distant smoke from burning vehicles, no stench of the unabated populace. Not to mention, you can’t hunt in France, or even own a gun. Food well, I will take a hamburger any day of the week, and I can’t drink wine, plus if you want cheese got to Wisconsin. If you want real good eats nothing can ever beat a mess of homemade fried chicken, that’s good eatin. Japan would be better, but you idea of awesome, is being built on the backs of laborers being stolen from. If I were to steal rob banks, and mug people to build a HLS, you would call me a criminal. Were I to have congress do it, you would be pleased as punch. I have decided to take you up on you offer, why don’t you get together with you friends and pay for a ticket for me to Europe. If it is as good as you say, I might change my mind. IF THESE PLACES ARE SO GREAT- WHY ARE YOU STILL HERE?
QUOTE: Where did I ever say I wanted the US to operate like France? thats out of context. I just said government funding of HSR is a good idea. I can tell you've never been to France...Actually visiting a place before you condemn it is always a good idea, I used to think Italy was a dump, till I spent some time there, now I wont hesitate to take a visit there ...Ah Venice! France is a beautiful place, amazing country sides, terrific wine, food, OH the cheeses! But if you dont like France might I suggest Japan? Perhaps the most awesome national rail system in the world, all funded by the government, and great sushi too!
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by KCMOWMAN You dudes are deep. Let's make it simple, you can't move enough people, as fast, as cheaply, as you can in an airplane, to make it worthwhile. "Cheaply as you can in a plane?" So we're not supposed to consider the cost of the huge pieces of property needed for airports and runways? (BTW, these are bought, built, and maintained with your tax dollars) Or the Air Traffic Control System? (PS: Run by and at the expense of the federal government) The people making these decisions should be taking all these factors into consideration, along with the enviornmental impact of the different modes, to decide which is best for the given situation. This is not a "one size fits all" type question. The amount of money and breaks given the airlines is hardly an excuse to do the same for the railroads, which did get their land given to them. Two wrongs don't make a right. The people making these decisions should not be the government.
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by KCMOWMAN You dudes are deep. Let's make it simple, you can't move enough people, as fast, as cheaply, as you can in an airplane, to make it worthwhile. "Cheaply as you can in a plane?" So we're not supposed to consider the cost of the huge pieces of property needed for airports and runways? (BTW, these are bought, built, and maintained with your tax dollars) Or the Air Traffic Control System? (PS: Run by and at the expense of the federal government) The people making these decisions should be taking all these factors into consideration, along with the enviornmental impact of the different modes, to decide which is best for the given situation. This is not a "one size fits all" type question.
QUOTE: Originally posted by KCMOWMAN You dudes are deep. Let's make it simple, you can't move enough people, as fast, as cheaply, as you can in an airplane, to make it worthwhile.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 QUOTE: EVERY nation IN THE WORLD that has a functioning HSR or even a functioning national rail system has substantial government support. EVERY ONE OF THEM LOOSES MONEY IN THE LONG RUN! Yes, they do, and they always will, but they still keep building more of them, more people keep riding them, and we keep admiring them from afar. Where we probably should if it has to be paid for out of the pockets of people who have no say in the matter. Why if so many people want it and are going to pay for it anyways, why don’t we try LETTING THEM CHOOSE, gasp freedom, if they want to? Choose, hmmm..Funny, I didnt have any say in going to Iraq? Billions spent every week there...I didnt have any say in a massive tax cut for the wealthy, lets watch that deficit soar like a Saturn V at takeoff! I didnt have any say yet I'm told these are for the national good? The amount of money spent in Iraq since Bush flew his Premature "Mission Accomplished" banner could have build a HSR system across the entire country. Yet I dont here any complaints about the millions being spoon fed to no-bid contract companies like Haliburton, wasted on boondoggle military programs like the Centurian Self Propelled Howitzer or the welfare for the rich taxcuts that our children are going to pay through the nose for. We didnt have a National Referendum for any of these yet here they are. Our government makes decisions that no one has a real say over they always have, thats the way government works. QUOTE: If everything has to earn a buck, why are we still in Iraq? Dont see any profits there? Well now this is different, I thought you said we went in for oil profits. We went in to save lives, and establish peace. Keeping our country safe is in our national interest and will in the long run help the whole nation, we can pay for it now, or pay for it later, and we have little choice. one small question? WHERES OSAMA? I dont think he's in Iraq. Niether were the MWDs...If we had sent 100,000 troops into Afghanistan and northern Pakistan and rooted out and eliminated Al Quida then and there, I would be elated! But this BS in Iraq had NOTHING to do with making America safer, they knew there were no MWDs but they needed a justifation to go after a personal vendetta Bush inherited from his fathers administration. Thats why I'm so bitter over Iraq. Big Oil did move in almost the next day, but got its nose so bloodied by the insurgents they fled and havent been back since. Ithe insurgants BTW are almost entirely lead by former Baath party leaders, they are using Mojadin suicide bombers simply as ready cannon fodder, or didnt you read the interview in Al Jarzera with a bomber handler, a former Baath mamber, about how this was being done, he even states that when the US leaves he knows there will be a civil war between the Bathe and Al quida forces for control. This debacle in Iraq because our fearless leaders had already decided they were going in and just made the evidence fit there version. The evidence is out there. On top of that maybe there worst failure was that they again COMPLETELY misunderstood the middle east, and charged in like Reagan did in Lebanon. We all know how that ended...I support our troops but it just galls me to think they're lives are being used up in a war thats justification was flawed from the outset . All this and Osama is still free ... are we getting a litle off topic here? I doubt you and I will ever see eye to eye on this topic, but this is my viewpoint and take it only as that. QUOTE: Its not all about the money, namely tax money, yet thats all you seam focused on. You have a better way to fund it, that you haven’t mentioned? As I said before, government is the only source of funding large enough to support such an endevour. Private industry just simply lacks the capital so its going to have to come from either federal, and/or State sources. QUOTE: The Manhattan Project was the biggest money pit of the war, yet no one cried about the costs when it ended the war. Going to the Moon?, I guess that was a boondogle also, regardless of any scientific knowledge, national prestige, beating the Soviets, just a waste? nor was the most massive achievement of the century, landing on another world, just an dream since Man could first talk, guess that was a waste also? Everything worth doing, costs. The atomic bomb saved the life of many an American soldier. Space exploration has helped us to launch many communication satellites, which are economically feasible, ie make money. Defeating the Russians also saved many Americans lives. So if you were trying to imply that I value money over life, you got me dead wrong. I don’t mind some government funding for scientific, and military research, for many reasons. But, even this can get out of hand; look at how many scientists continue to proclaim the theory of global warming, just to keep their research money. Yes everything worth doing cost money, the question becomes is it worth the money. Exactly MY point, things worth doing cost money, The Manhattan Project was a HUGE endevour, at its peak larger that the automobile industry. Yet we did it and we went to the Moon. Building a national HSR system linking the major cities of the country is DEFINITLY worth doing. I haven't been talking about linking San Francisco with Chicago, but Chicago to NY, Ny to Boston, NY to DC, LA to San Diego. DIRECT city to city, no stops inbetween, just like an airline and the TGV and ICE systems. and people should have the right to vote yea or nea, I suspect that they would overwhelmingly approve it given the alternatives of $3 a gallon car travel or cattle-plane travle today. The advantages over air travel to the business man and the tourist would in itself be worth doing. Youz needs a trip ta Europe ma friend, Someone get this man a Eurail Pass !!! Once you experience it, the ability to get from city to city fast comfortably and cheap, you want it here also. Its that convincing. Sounds like a great idea! That is if I can survive going through France, the country operated so much like you want; look at it, DO WE WANT AMERICA TO BECOME LIKE FRANCE?In France due to a socialist society, 30% of the people are unemployed. People don't work because the government takes their money for the TGV and other much worse swindles. Where did I ever say I wanted the US to operate like France? thats out of context. I just said government funding of HSR is a good idea. I can tell you've never been to France...Actually visiting a place before you condemn it is always a good idea, I used to think Italy was a dump, till I spent some time there, now I wont hesitate to take a visit there ...Ah Venice! France is a beautiful place, amazing country sides, terrific wine, food, OH the cheeses! But if you dont like France might I suggest Japan? Perhaps the most awesome national rail system in the world, all funded by the government, and great sushi too! Have fun with your trains Reply « First«1234567 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 QUOTE: EVERY nation IN THE WORLD that has a functioning HSR or even a functioning national rail system has substantial government support. EVERY ONE OF THEM LOOSES MONEY IN THE LONG RUN! Yes, they do, and they always will, but they still keep building more of them, more people keep riding them, and we keep admiring them from afar.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098 QUOTE: EVERY nation IN THE WORLD that has a functioning HSR or even a functioning national rail system has substantial government support. EVERY ONE OF THEM LOOSES MONEY IN THE LONG RUN!
QUOTE: EVERY nation IN THE WORLD that has a functioning HSR or even a functioning national rail system has substantial government support.
QUOTE: If everything has to earn a buck, why are we still in Iraq? Dont see any profits there?
QUOTE: Its not all about the money, namely tax money, yet thats all you seam focused on.
QUOTE: The Manhattan Project was the biggest money pit of the war, yet no one cried about the costs when it ended the war. Going to the Moon?, I guess that was a boondogle also, regardless of any scientific knowledge, national prestige, beating the Soviets, just a waste? nor was the most massive achievement of the century, landing on another world, just an dream since Man could first talk, guess that was a waste also? Everything worth doing, costs.
Youz needs a trip ta Europe ma friend, Someone get this man a Eurail Pass !!! Once you experience it, the ability to get from city to city fast comfortably and cheap, you want it here also. Its that convincing.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.