What would the founding fathers think about this.

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

Did you serve? Are your children serving? Are any Democrats children serving?

Avoid the question by asking another. My kids used to try that on me, too.

However, no, I did not serve. I was fortunate that when I turned 18, the draft had be changed to a 'birthday lottery' type system. I was drafted to be in the second of three groups to go to Viet Nam, but thankfully the war was winding down at that time, and I just barely avoided having to go.

And two other of my nephews are almost at draft age. So yes, I do have a personal reason to see the madness end. By the way, have you signed up yet???

And you totally missed my point. I agree that there are Democrats that invoked their position of power so their children do not have to serve. That does not make it any more correct for the Republicans. I repeat: I am not a democrat or republican. I just want the truth. You do not have; I do not have it. I just wish someone did.

[zardoz]

Bush / Kerry. Same difference. I am not a Kerry fan either. I am not even a Democrat. To claim a label can limit the degree of one's ability to contemplate alternate ideas.

And I did ask a soldier from Iraq. If you read my post, you will have noted that my source was a serviceman that has recently returned from Iraq. And you ought to know better than to trust surveys. Especially since you claim you can do more than cut-and-paste.

Freedom to drill for oil? Yea, screw the the wildlife refuges, to hell with the environment. And anyway, what does that have to do with the record profits of the oil companies? You seem to have forgotten that little tidbit.

How about an even more novel concept? Take some of that subsidy money and put it towards developing "alternative" sources of energy, so we can tell the whole middle-east what they can do with their oil! But that is likely too forward-thinking for some; they would prefer to continue the madness.

I certainly do not have any answers. I'm just a nobody that's going nowhere. And I'm not too smart, either. I just know enough to realize that I know next to nothing.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

I'll be back.

Is that your best Schwartzenegger impression?

Don't do us any favors.

If you cant dazzel em with brilliance, baffel em with bullsh it. You da man James.

Slam dunk Zardos!!!!![^]

[Anonymous]

Did you serve? Are your children serving? Are any Democrats children serving?

[zardoz]

I'm confident that most republicans did serve, as well as that there are Democrats that did not serve. My point is that those that are now in power, and are sending our people to die, have never faced hostile fire, and they talk of war like a game. When Bush enlists his alcoholic daughters to serve under fire, I'll back off a bit.

[Anonymous]

Why don’t we ask our soldiers in Iraq?
Who do you trust more to handle the responsibilities of commander in chief of the military: George W. Bush or John Kerry? George W. Bush: 69%, or John Kerry: 24%
Or this one:
Do you think John Kerry has a clear plan for bringing the situation in Iraq to a successful conclusion, or don't you think so? Has a clear plan: 16%, Does not have a clear plan: 74%

[Anonymous]

Well you could list the Republican that did serve. You could get some proof for George Bush going AWOL, other than what Dan Rather printed off of Microsoft Word. Maybe we wouldn't need to subsidize the oil companied if we gave them the freedom to drill for oil; I know novel concept. I'll be back.

P.S. I can do more than cut and paste off of Democrat Websites.

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal
[Let me guess: You listen to Air America and NPR, you watch CNN/CBS/Bill Moyers/Chris Mathews, and you read New York Times/Washington Post/LA Times/or any Knight-Ridder/Tribune media owned papers. Geez, if I was as immersed in that culture of negativity I'd be as despondent as you.

Economic growth - 3.4%
U.S. productivity - 4.1%
Unemployment - under 5.0%

Given the hits from oil prices and the Hurricanes, it is remarkable that the Bush Administration has kept this economy on course. You may hate Bush, you may even be one of these self-debasing "Hate America First" types, but if you want any credibility you have to admit that Bush has done the job.

Of course, it's always possible that folks like you will somehow manage to snatch defeat from the mouth of victory in Iraq and Afghanistan, should you all regain power in 2006. It shouldn't suprise anyone that the terrorists (you know, those sub-humans that you call "insurgents") are reading and listening to the same media that you read and listen to, because after a hard day of performing the acts of a dead-ender, they can always get themselves re-energized by accessing the mainstream US media.

It's no wonder soldiers come back from Iraq shocked at what they see and hear in the US media. For you see, from their perspective, the work they are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan has been a great success, as they work to rebuild those nations while taking potshots from your "insurgent" buddies. It's too bad people like you continue to stab them in the back by undermining their accomplishments.

Actually, I have listened to/read some of the media you mentioned; I also have listened to Fox, ABC, NBC, Reuters, Ap, and others. I, unlike certain others, try to get a variety of viewpoints, in order that I can make my OWN decisions and judgements.

Sure, the economy is great (if you want to make minimun wage at Wal-mart).

Bush has done the job? Which job is that? Subsidies to the oil companies while they reap record profits? Haliburton? Let's not forget the chartered plane supplied by Bush for the evacuation of the Bin Laden family members that were still in the US when 9/11 happened!!!!!! (it was the ONLY plane allowed to be in the air). Or was it how Bush has cut so many benefits from the servicemen/women? Or was it how Bush went AWOL from the cushy military commitment he made to avoid actually having to serve?

My nephew just returned from Iraq; what he is so shocked about is how the media is portraying the conflict. HIS assessment (he was actually serving under fire) is that we are NOT "winning"; and the troops are just trying to stay alive until they are released.

"Defeat from the mouth of victory" Is this in any way similar to dubya on the aircraft carrier announcing "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" (that was about 1500 American deaths ago).

Oh, did i mention that exxon received $2.6 BILLION in SUBSIDIES from the bush administration?
In other words: we as taxpayers gave exxon $2.6 BILLION so that they could go on to have record earnings and record profits.
These subsidies were a part of the energy bill that the oil industry helped write, along with *** cheney(who, surprise surprise, is the former ceo of halliburton, an energy company).

The bush ideology is so f*cking transparent: take money away from people and give it to corporations. tax the poor and subsidize rich corporations.
All of this other right-wing nonsense is just a smokescreen. the bush administration has one goal: funnel taxpayers money to the energy and defense industries.


How about the military records of our elected officials:
Democrats:

* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
Paraplegic from war injuries. Served in Congress.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but received #311
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul Wallenberg.

Republicans -- and these are the guys sending people to war:

* *** Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got assigned to Alabama so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non- combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Vietnam POW, Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit,Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem, " although continued in NFL for 8 years as quarterback.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base.

Right-Wing Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot back.)

Need I say more?

[Anonymous]

Hmm, I did miss a comma. I research everything, I do not simply following anything I hear from anywhere. I occasionally break grammar rules to make a point, I maintain we don't speak English anyways; we speak the much improved version, American.

I maintain it is you who are the sheep, you have no facts, and you simply call me names. You are just copying what you heard on Communist News Network, Communist BS, and Absolute Bull Crud, for those of you in Rio Linda that’s (CNN, CBS, and ABC).

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098
IF THIS IS BAD YOU ARE A BIG, NO HUGE, NO GIANTIC, NO ENOUROUS, PESITMIST.

er, ah, was that English you were using?

Perhaps when you grow up you will understand things a bit clearer; if not, you will just join the ranks of the followers, believing everything the press tells you, and you will continue to watch Fox for the latest "unbiased" news.

[Anonymous]

Hey, I am going to have to stand up for Amtrak hear, it ain't Mineta’s fault. An Amtrak train was to be moved north just before the hurricane hit, Amtrak wanted to pack people on that train. But somebody wouldn't let them, who do you suppose could be that incompetent, here's a hint it wasn’t Mineta.






The Mayor of New Orleans, Mr. Ray Nagin.
As for the trains, the Times Picayune reported that Amtrak called the mayor on Friday and offered to evacuate passengers on their Saturday trains hauling equipment to safety. The last train was to leave Saturday night. Nagin declined the offer.
Quoted from: http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/005417.php

Knowing the truth I am calling my representatives to tell them, to tell Mineta to keep up the good work. This issue is not one of left and right, but one of the truth, if Mineta hadn’t done anything I too would complain, but he did. Mr. Nagin did absolutely nothing, but sit down and cry for the federal government to rescue him.

Since you might like a more reliable source. This is from the Washington Post http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/10/AR2005091001529_4.html

In fact, while the last regularly scheduled train out of town had left a few hours earlier, Amtrak had decided to run a “dead-head” train that evening to move equipment out of the city. It was headed for high ground in Macomb, Miss., and it had room for several hundred passengers. “We offered the city the opportunity to take evacuees out of harm’s way,” said Amtrak spokesman Cliff Black. “The city declined.”
So the ghost train left New Orleans at 8:30 p.m., with no passengers on board.
So why are we blaming Mineta again?

[Modelcar]

....And I'm one who has been in contact with my two Senators. It would be a lost cause to do the same with my Representative.

[daveklepper]

Again, a reminder that evacuation is a transportation matter and that Mineta did nothing until after the flood. Each of you does have one congressman and two senators.

[Anonymous]

Jock,

A very interesting viewpoint. I think maybe the founders would have gone for government funding, considering it as a public transportation idea, but certainly not government control; even the freeways and roads are kept up by the state. As Thomas Jefferson said.
If we were directed from Washington when to sow and reap, we should soon want bread."

Dave,

I was talking to a friend of mine about your idea of using the freeway medians as a ROW. He thought this was a splendid idea, if it had been done when the freeways were being built. So you aren’t crazy (well maybe).[swg]

[jockellis]

G'day, Y'all,
As I recall from about eight pages of ranting ago, the question was what would the founding fathers think of HSR. I've read three biographies of Washington in the past year or so and been to his home. I learned that a young George Washington was a surveyor who went to the west to work. There, he saw the future in westward expansion. George was quite an astute economist without portfolio. He saw that the Virginia plantation system was a terrible economic model because the planter transported his crops by ship to England, sold them at wholesale and had his agent buy for him his necessities at retail and have them shipped back to America, again paying shipping. Many of the tidewater planters only kept their estates until their debts were called in and the estates sold at auction.
If you go to Mount Vernon, you'll be taken by the docent into the formal dining room. She'll ask you about the three paintings on the wall of the Ohio River. The answer is that they are there to establish a dialogue with his endless stream of visitors on the merits of the west and the possibilities of shipping by river, which at that time represented the fastest and most cost effective means of transportation. Even as a young man, Washington had a shrewd grasp on what the American colonies could do if they were not the lacky of England, which saw its colonies as a cash cow.
As commander in chief of the colonial army, Washington had an incredible view of the states' lack of funding for the army and said in his letters to all that the new nation needed more power for its central government if they were to accomplish anything as a country.
After the war was won, Washington saw the Potomac River as the basis for a river transportation system with the interior of the country. He and his Virginia friends realized the need to get and give cooperation with other states in order to make the plan work. So they organized a get together of delegates from the affected states. That meeting evolved into the First Continental Congress. So if George Washington and the other leaders of our new nation had not realized the importance of good transportation, we might have never made it as a country.
As a young colonial officer in the service of the British army, Washington met with mainly failure. Despite that, he was given command of the Amerian army. There, he tried to use Briti***actics and our army lost battle after battle. Then he realized we needed to do things differently; he learned not to put all our eggs in one basket, a plan B, if you will. That might turn into having more than one form of public transportation, the airplane. Whether HSR would be his second choice, I don't know. But I do think that, given the facts and the history of passenger rail transportation, he'd vote for governmental ownership.
Personally, I'd rather have that incredible amount of money for dedicated passenger lines spent on upgrading all potential passenger rail lines to 79 or 89 mph. This would improve freight movements and make the freight railroads, which hate passenger rail more than the highway lobby, take a different look at passenger trains.
Jock Ellis
Cumming, GA US of A

[Big_Boy_4005]

Well I had a fun day visiting a couple of model railroads and a hobby store, then went out for pizza and a few rounds of darts at Big Girl's sisters house. I told you I had better things to do. I see you are right where I left you.

I didn't think you neocons smoked that stuff.

Out of curiosity, where did you get those rose colored glasses, and do they come in perscription?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal
After all, the economy is rocking, we won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and are well ahead of any timetable for establishing the new democracies in those countries

Sorry, I just cannot resist this any longer.

Economy is rocking? We WON the wars?

You've GOT TO BE KIDDING!!

I must be listening to the wrong radio stations, seeing the wrong tv stations, and reading the wrong newspapers.

So you want documentation about the democrats "smear" campaign? How about documenting your rather imaginative statements?!

Let me guess: You listen to Air America and NPR, you watch CNN/CBS/Bill Moyers/Chris Mathews, and you read New York Times/Washington Post/LA Times/or any Knight-Ridder/Tribune media owned papers. Geez, if I was as immersed in that culture of negativity I'd be as despondent as you.

Economic growth - 3.4%
U.S. productivity - 4.1%
Unemployment - under 5.0%

Given the hits from oil prices and the Hurricanes, it is remarkable that the Bush Administration has kept this economy on course. You may hate Bush, you may even be one of these self-debasing "Hate America First" types, but if you want any credibility you have to admit that Bush has done the job.

Of course, it's always possible that folks like you will somehow manage to snatch defeat from the mouth of victory in Iraq and Afghanistan, should you all regain power in 2006. It shouldn't suprise anyone that the terrorists (you know, those sub-humans that you call "insurgents") are reading and listening to the same media that you read and listen to, because after a hard day of performing the acts of a dead-ender, they can always get themselves re-energized by accessing the mainstream US media.

It's no wonder soldiers come back from Iraq shocked at what they see and hear in the US media. For you see, from their perspective, the work they are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan has been a great success, as they work to rebuild those nations while taking potshots from your "insurgent" buddies. It's too bad people like you continue to stab them in the back by undermining their accomplishments.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

I have better things to do than respond to that bunch of nonsense. Have a nice day.

LOL!

[Anonymous]

Well we beat Saddam in the fastest time in history. The talliban no longer controls Afghanistan. Iraq is now free from the fear of a tyrannical dictator. We haven't bee attacked by terrorist again. Unemployment is lower than under Bill Clinton.
Ha Ha, Gas just dropped some more![:D]

IF THIS IS BAD YOU ARE A BIG, NO HUGE, NO GIANTIC, NO ENOUROUS, PESITMIST.

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal
After all, the economy is rocking, we won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and are well ahead of any timetable for establishing the new democracies in those countries

Sorry, I just cannot resist this any longer.

Economy is rocking? We WON the wars?

You've GOT TO BE KIDDING!!

I must be listening to the wrong radio stations, seeing the wrong tv stations, and reading the wrong newspapers.

So you want documentation about the democrats "smear" campaign? How about documenting your rather imaginative statements?!

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal
Compared to Clinton, this administration has had a nearly spotless record when it comes to integrity and honesty.

[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]
[2c]

[Anonymous]

I will be honest, and not address any more politics (unlike the vsmith). Notice who is calling people names, insulting people, and not giving any facts whatsoever. This usually stems from a weak argument, when someone knows there are beat, they start insulting people. It is the last resort. Simmer down, no flames please. I can see that if you refuse to see past the end of your nose, I won't open your eyes for you.
So:

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

My daddy told me " Son, there two kind of people you can't argue with...a Fanatic and an Idiot"

I think I'll add "Republican" to that list....

I'll end my participation in this by quoting Edward R Morrow, world reknown journalist who was also accused of being a socialist and managed to inform the American Citizenry to what a complete nut-job Sen. Joe McCarthy was...

"Good Night and Good Luck"

Hey now.....I've been known to vote republican......

your conservative, but moderate friend,
Dan

Sorry Dan

That not aimed at you, nor to other members here. It was specific to one or so...

Comment revised in edit

The real shame of it is that I too have Repulican freinds and we get fine. Any way Dan, see you around on other topics. Aint coming back to this stinker, like talking to rocks, only rocks listen better.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

My daddy told me " Son, there two kind of people you can't argue with...a Fanatic and an Idiot"

I think I'll add "Republican" to that list....

I'll end my participation in this by quoting Edward R Morrow, world reknown journalist who was also accused of being a socialist and managed to inform the American Citizenry to what a complete nut-job Sen. Joe McCarthy was...

"Good Night and Good Luck"

Hey now.....I've been known to vote republican......

your conservative, but moderate friend,
Dan

[vsmith]

My daddy told me " Son, there two kind of people you can't argue with...a Fanatic and an Idiot"

I think I'll add "Certain Republican's" to that list....

I'll end my participation in this by quoting Edward R Morrow, world reknown journalist who was also accused of being a socialist and managed to inform the American Citizenry to what a complete nut-job Sen. Joe McCarthy was...

"Good Night and Good Luck"



edit so not to offend FREINDS here, I'm not angry at you guys....

[Big_Boy_4005]

I have better things to do than respond to that bunch of nonsense. Have a nice day.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

Dave, James has not presented a quote newer than 3 years old. The situation and publicly known facts have changed since then, and much of the country feels that we were duped.

The current administration is very good at misrepresenting things to gain public support. Judging from the president's approval rating, people are catching on. Some people can just see through crap better than others.

The best thing about Bush is he can't be re-elected again. Thank God for term limits!!!

You see, this is what I'm talking about. Your entire POV is based on fantasy, not fact.

What has changed from 3 years ago that provides new FACTUAL information regarding the reasons for the Iraq action? Nothing. However, there has been an ongoing slander campaign in which Democrats are trying to rewrite history to both (1) claim that Bush had information somehow unavailable to the Democrats regarding Iraq and WMD which countered the rational for going to war (but of course, when pressed for any documentation of this alleged counter info, they got nothin'), and (2) somehow claim that all along they were doubtful and suspicious of the intellegence information that made the case viable in the first place (when of course during the late 1990's it was the Democrats who were all over the place claiming Saddam had and would use WMD against the US - Didn't you see or read my reference to the Tim Russert interview of Teddy Kennedy?)

The president"s current approval rating does have connections to this propagation of fasle claims against the president, so your slander campaign is having the desired effect, at least for now. I for one believe that the majority of Americans, when and if given the truth about the Democrats slander campaign, will renew their collective faith in Bush. After all, the economy is rocking, we won the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and are well ahead of any timetable for establishing the new democracies in those countries, most of the Al Qaida leadership is either dead or captured, Bin Laden is probably wormfood by now, and most importantly of all, peoples in the Middle East are experiencing their first realistic chances at democracy and all the benefits that ensue.

If you have factual reference that the Bush Adminstration "misrepresented" anything, please provide the proof. Compared to Clinton, this administration has had a nearly spotless record when it comes to integrity and honesty.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Dave, you show your ignorance of HSR technology when you think that it is possible to have it follow interstate medians. Beside, in most metropolitan areas, any left over median space is quickly being paved over with additional traffic lanes.

Most freight doesn't need to travel at high speed, and because of the weight factor cannot be mixed with passenger traffic. HSR is only practical for passengers and maybe parcels, but the infrastructure cost does not justify it's construction.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

Last of my political commentary on this thread (hopefully):

James has provided reference for his take on WMD/Bush/Democrats.

vsmith has not.

Therefore, although you can "agree to disagree" about WMD/Bush/Democrats, what is undeniable is that the positions taken by vsmith et al are without a documentable basis, rather they are feelgood positions simply based on political slander of Bush. It is political postering, nothing more. You can disagree all you want about Bush's policies, but you cannot dimini***he man's intengrity and honesty without making a complete***of yourself.

And a word of advice for you Democrats: If you think you will take back the House or Senate soley via Bush-bashing, you will be sorely disappointed come Novemeber 2006. You guys better come up with some positive ideas to present to the American people. Personally, if the Democrats would just go back to the days of Scoop Jackson, Warren Magnuson, and Zell Miller, they might just get my vote.

BTW, Big Boy, it's more like you guys are bringing spitballs to a nukefest.

Jesus Christ! I'm trying to end this and you drop this? What is with you?

History will remember which one of us is correct, and we'll see who laughing in 06 till then I was ready to drop this subject then you go peeing into the cornflakes!

The reason I didnt post any supporting evidence is because I have a LIFE, and do not feel like Trawling the internet to find the supporting data.

SHEE-IT FutureModal, Guess you want to drive this topic right off the cliff again!

First you say behave, then you drop ***-balls!

Are you just trying to fire this up again after it looked like it might settle down?

Stop being an A$$hole!

BTW this is EXACTLY the reply I would expect from a Ditto-head Soviet-Republican follower.

F*ck this Noise! [:(!]
I hate Sheep!

[Big_Boy_4005]

Dave, James has not presented a quote newer than 3 years old. The situation and publicly known facts have changed since then, and much of the country feels that we were duped.

The current administration is very good at misrepresenting things to gain public support. Judging from the president's approval rating, people are catching on. Some people can just see through crap better than others.

The best thing about Bush is he can't be re-elected again. Thank God for term limits!!!