Have You had a Rude Railfan-Railroader Experience?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NARguy

OK. It's time to lock this one and move on. Bergie?

Lock it? why, no one is being nasty.... Such a control fixation for somone having only 18 posts...[:D]

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Let me see if I am following this:

As a railfan, I need to be sure Millie is packed with a camera, no film, peek in no windows, except bathroom ones and only with one eye, carry an unarmed armament, a bible and be sure my lawyer is with me at all times!

I think I got it - and just in time for this weekend's train watching!

Mook

Is Millie the name of your car?

Yes - we have two - and rather than say old or new - I just named her. It is a Buick Century - hence the name Millenium "Millie".....

Our *middle* cat would be proud!

[Anonymous]

OK. It's time to lock this one and move on. Bergie?

[Anonymous]

[:D][:D][^][^][8D][:)][:)][:P][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]

You remember!!!!

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by rgroeling

I am just wondering, why do some railroaders (not all of them, some) get so mad when you take pics of their train..

Maybe they are ashamed, because they have lowest seniority and always get stuck with the creaky old EMD's cause the senior guys always grab the GE's for themselves?... [}:)]

But, my personal bet is that they are not mad about the photos, they are mad about the snotty, defiant attitudes of the photographer telling them what the score is.

Okay CN Guy.[|)]

[Anonymous]

But I like creaky old EMDs... I think they are cool

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rgroeling

I am just wondering, why do some railroaders (not all of them, some) get so mad when you take pics of their train..

Maybe they are ashamed, because they have lowest seniority and always get stuck with the creaky old EMD's cause the senior guys always grab the GE's for themselves?... [}:)]

But, my personal bet is that they are not mad about the photos, they are mad about the snotty, defiant attitudes of the photographer telling them what the score is.

[Anonymous]

I am just wondering, why do some railroaders (not all of them, some) get so mad when you take pics of their train.. Wouldn't it be nice to know that someone takes such an interest in what you are doing that they want to photogrpah it...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Don't you need a restraining order of some sort in order to enforce no photography rules of private property from public property? Also, if you are to pleed that you are immune some how of being prosecuted for taking pictures, don't you have to be a licenced journalist/ press in order for that excuse to work?

No on all counts.

LC

[Junctionfan]

Don't you need a restraining order of some sort in order to enforce no photography rules of private property from public property? Also, if you are to pleed that you are immune some how of being prosecuted for taking pictures, don't you have to be a licenced journalist/ press in order for that excuse to work?

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

I prefer the Book of Armaments 1:1....

If thou cannot reason with thy foe, use all reasonable means and then some, to smite him into the ground.

Think I saw in the footnotes a referral to "A Smith & Wesson trumps four aces"....I am so-ooooo not worthy! Kudos Dan!

[bow][bow][bow]

Well then, Deal me in on that hand. My .44's ready to rock and roll. It doesn't get much excerscise now that I'm livin in the city.[;)]

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

I prefer the Book of Armaments 1:1....

If thou cannot reason with thy foe, use all reasonable means and then some, to smite him into the ground.

Think I saw in the footnotes a referral to "A Smith & Wesson trumps four aces"....I am so-ooooo not worthy! Kudos Dan!

[bow][bow][bow]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear
So think about that the next time you want to take a photo of a railroad employee.

LC

The amazing thing about this conversation is that the ones bellyaching the most defiantly are also the ones to have had unpleasant encounters with the railroads,

Coincidence? I suspect not... [;)]

and teens for the most part.....oh to be half as smart as I was then.....

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Dear LimitedClear,
The first ammendment also, by default replies to state and local laws.

Of course, you are right, common sense should always be followed.

PEOPLE, ALWAYS BE CALM, POLITE, and USE COMMON SENSE.

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

How does the First Amendment apply to you taking pictures of a train or railroad employees? All it says is what the government cannot do.....I don't see where it says anything about your right to take a picture, unless you are construing the freedom of speech or press to that end.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


As far as military bases go. Most will have a sign on the fence that says photography not permitted. Ergo, not allowed. Ignorance is not a defense.

Dan

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Dear LimitedClear,
Please take a look at this:
http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

Most sincerely,
Daniel Parks

READ IT CAREFULLY. NOTHING IN THIS DOCUMENT CONFLICTS WITH WHAT I HAVE ALREADY SAID.

LC

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Let me see if I am following this:

As a railfan, I need to be sure Millie is packed with a camera, no film, peek in no windows, except bathroom ones and only with one eye, carry an unarmed armament, a bible and be sure my lawyer is with me at all times!

I think I got it - and just in time for this weekend's train watching!

Mook

Is Millie the name of your car?

Yes - we have two - and rather than say old or new - I just named her. It is a Buick Century - hence the name Millenium "Millie".....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

I prefer the Book of Armaments 1:1....

I sort of like the book of EMD Gearing Ratios 27:98 [:)][:D][8D].

[Anonymous]

Dear LimitedClear,
Please take a look at this:
http://www.krages.com/ThePhotographersRight.pdf

Most sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[Anonymous]

Dear LimitedClear,
The first ammendment also, by default replies to state and local laws.

Of course, you are right, common sense should always be followed.

PEOPLE, ALWAYS BE CALM, POLITE, and USE COMMON SENSE.

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Dear LimitedClear,
Any pictures I take from public property are fair game. According to the supreme court, this includes military installations until I am asked not to. Everything else is A-okay. It is the responsibility of the citizen to not become a railroader if he or she does not want railfans taking pictures of him or her.

Sincerely and respectfully,
Daniel Parks

Mr. Parks -

What concerns me is not so much what you do, it is the impression you are leaving on other impressionable people on this forum who may follow your dangerously wrong and unlawful advice. I urge those of you out there to use the rules of reason, use the common sense you were given. Most times you will be within the law. I am not aware of any U.S. Supreme Court decision that gives any specific right to take pictures from any property. There is a great deal of law out there that restricts all manner of activities on private property and more law still that governs the privacy of individuals from both government and individual intrusion. Don't count on the First Amendment to shield you from everything. The First Amendment controls the behavior of the government ONLY, and does not affect the rights of individuals or companies that could result in some nasty wake up calls in civil or criminal court.

LC

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Let me see if I am following this:

As a railfan, I need to be sure Millie is packed with a camera, no film, peek in no windows, except bathroom ones and only with one eye, carry an unarmed armament, a bible and be sure my lawyer is with me at all times!

I think I got it - and just in time for this weekend's train watching!

Mook

Is Millie the name of your car?

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Dear LimitedClear,
Any pictures I take from public property are fair game. According to the supreme court, this includes military installations until I am asked not to. Everything else is A-okay. It is the responsibility of the citizen to not become a railroader if he or she does not want railfans taking pictures of him or her.

Sincerely and respectfully,
Daniel Parks

OK, lets take this from a more realistic perspective.

Suppose some sleazey photographer sets up his camera in the middle of your front yard, and he's just banging away taking pictures, through your windows.

You go out and tell him to stop, and he tells you some line trying to convince you that it's "OK" for him to continue.

You tell him that it's NOT ok, you want him to stop, and point out that he is trespassing on your property, and you want him to leave.
He moves back 12 feet to the public sidewalk, sets the camera back up, thumbs his nose at you, and defiantly states that there is nothing you can do to stop him now, because he is within his rights.


Just how diplomatic are you going to fell the need to be in the face of such an antagonistic attitude? O mean think about it, here this guy is at your place, trying to convince you that he's in charge, and there's not a thing you can do about it. (that is what thhis thread is about, the response of the employee, not the debate of the laws as written)

I'll say this much, if some squirrely little dingus came up to my place with that kind of attitude, he'd have an awful embarrassing time explaining how his camera got shoved so far up where the sun don't shine... that's for sure [:D]

There might not be anything legal you can do when he steps off your property BUT there is nothing he can do about you turning the garden hose on him. Cameras and water don't mix very well. [:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Dear LimitedClear,
Any pictures I take from public property are fair game. According to the supreme court, this includes military installations until I am asked not to. Everything else is A-okay. It is the responsibility of the citizen to not become a railroader if he or she does not want railfans taking pictures of him or her.

Sincerely and respectfully,
Daniel Parks

OK, lets take this from a more realistic perspective.

Suppose some sleazey photographer sets up his camera in the middle of your front yard, and he's just banging away taking pictures, through your windows.

You go out and tell him to stop, and he tells you some line trying to convince you that it's "OK" for him to continue.

You tell him that it's NOT ok, you want him to stop, and point out that he is trespassing on your property, and you want him to leave.
He moves back 12 feet to the public sidewalk, sets the camera back up, thumbs his nose at you, and defiantly states that there is nothing you can do to stop him now, because he is within his rights.


Just how diplomatic are you going to feel the need to be in the face of such an antagonistic attitude? I mean think about it, here this guy is at your place, trying to convince you that he's in charge, and there's not a thing you can do about it. (that is what this thread is about, the response of the employee, not the debate of the laws as written)

I'll say this much, if some squirrely little dingus came up to my place with that kind of attitude, he'd have an awful embarrassing time explaining how his camera got shoved so far up where the sun don't shine... that's for sure [:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear
So think about that the next time you want to take a photo of a railroad employee.

LC

The amazing thing about this conversation is that the ones bellyaching the most defiantly are also the ones to have had unpleasant encounters with the railroads,

Coincidence? I suspect not... [;)]

[Anonymous]

Dear LimitedClear,
Any pictures I take from public property are fair game. According to the supreme court, this includes military installations until I am asked not to. Everything else is A-okay. It is the responsibility of the citizen to not become a railroader if he or she does not want railfans taking pictures of him or her.

Sincerely and respectfully,
Daniel Parks

[chad thomas]

[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Too funny Mookie [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]

[edblysard]

You forgot your GCOR, again![:D]

Ed

[Mookie]

Let me see if I am following this:

As a railfan, I need to be sure Millie is packed with a camera, no film, peek in no windows, except bathroom ones and only with one eye, carry an unarmed armament, a bible and be sure my lawyer is with me at all times!

I think I got it - and just in time for this weekend's train watching!

Mook

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainjunky29

Honest to goodness, this is the most purile topic I've ever been on.

Firstly, while we're all pretending to be lawyers, if I'm on public property, and there is a window, then whatever I can see through that window with my eyes is fair game to take a picture of while on on private property. Now, all you people are going to say I'm some sort of pervert for this bathroom thing. The point is that a crew in a locomotive cab has no more expectation of privacy through their FRA-glazed windows than a car driver on a freeway.

I would like to thank James for sticking up for me. I owe you one. I would also like to thank Ed, Mr. Hemphill and everyone else who has remained reasonable.

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

No pretending going on here Dan. I've been an attorney for almost two decades, although I don't currently spend time practicing law much. I prefer running locomotives and related railroading. Oh, and for the record, a train crew does have a greater expectancy of privacy on private railroad property than someone on a public highway. Also, if you take my photo and use it without my permission you will find yourself on the receiving end of a civil suit which doesn't require that I have any expectation of privacy at all. So think about that the next time you want to take a photo of a railroad employee.

LC

[dharmon]

I prefer the Book of Armaments 1:1....

If thou cannot reason with thy foe, use all reasonable means and then some, to smite him into the ground.