GG1 in service?

[Supermicha]

Can anyone tell me, which railroads had the GG1 in service? I have seen models by IHC with many paintschemes like New Haven "McGinnis", Milwaukee, New York Central, Great Northern and so on? Had these railroads the gg1 in service? i know only from Pennsylvania, NJT, Amtrak.

Thanks, Micha, Dresden, Germany

[Anonymous]

Conrail and Penn Central used them , also as freight engines. When PC and Amtak had them they ran on the New Haven lines but never painted as NH.

[eolafan]

Micha, the GG1 was designed by Raymond Lowey (at least the esthetic parts) and developed by GE and Westinhouse for the Pennsylvania RR in the 1930's and ran under PRR, PC, AMTRAK and Conrail ownership until the last one was retired (I believe) in the early 1980's.

[dknelson]

The running gear on the GG1 somewhat resembled that of an older New Haven (nonstreamlined) elelctric which I think is why you sometimes saw model GG1s painted New Haven. I think even Penn Line had their all metal shorty GG1 painted New Haven.
Dave Nelson

[cabforward]

spikesys.com has much info on gg1..

[edblysard]

Micha,
The makers of models will paint them in any railroad colors they think will sell. You can find just about every model of every diesel painted in the Santa Fe's warbonnet paintscheme.
As far as I know, Pennsylvania RR was the only road with them, it developed it with General Electric. You may find a few photos of it in PC paint,& Conrail blue, and of course pennesy tuscan red and that odd green they had.. I dont think Amtrak ever repainted the ones they inherited.
Ed

[dknelson]

I think at least a few had Amtrak lettering, Ed. Painted black rather than the red blue and platinum mist
In fact I think the one donated to the Illinois Railroad Museum in Union Illinois has, or at least had, its black Amtrak paint on delivery.
There might also have been a special paint job for the bicentennial and perhaps also the 1969 commemoration of the Golden Spike.
Dave Nelson

[edblysard]

You know, now that you mention it, I think I saw a shot of a black one, with white amtrak letters, in Classic trains....not a classy look for a classy looking motor. Sitting still, them look like their moving...
Ed

[eolafan]

The "classiest" paint scheme I ever saw the GG1 in was the Tuscan Red with Gold striping of the PRR back in the 1950's era. VERY classy indeed!

[Supermicha]

Ed, i just saw a picture with a GG1 painted in Amtrak Bloody nose paint scheme. But i was sure, that there were not so much different paintschemes. On the website of Mehano modelrailroads, you can see the gg1 with more than 20 different paintschemes in ho scale. And i must say, also if they never existed, the mcginnis and the milwaukee paintschemes looks very nice on a gg1. i´m worried about, that new jersey transit runs there gg1´s only in black, and not in the todays silver paintscheme with the colerful stripes. I´m a big njt fan. i hope some company will build the new alp-46 in ho scale. If not, i must scratchbuild it from the german class 101, they are just the same locos.

Micha

[mccannt]

Amtrak did paint several of its GG1s into a red, blue and platinum mist scheme. Others simply wore their former Penn Central black with Amtrak lettering.

The classiest Amtrak GG1 was probably the 4935, repainted into its classic Brunswick green in the mid-1970s. This unit is now on display at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania in Strasburg, along with the first GG1, #4800.

Pennsy originally painted 10 GG1s into the Tuscan red scheme in 1952 for service on its new "Senator" and "Congressional" Budd streamliners.

[eolafan]

I have to say that the Brunswick Green scheme on the GG1 units was also great, and would be my second choice behind Tuscan Red!

[dknelson]

Somewhere and I cannot recall where I saw a photo of a GG1 that the Pennsy cut in half and used as some sort of snow plow in a yard! I swear I saw this! I only had one little beer tonight!
Dave Nelson

[cabforward]

the largest and most intimidating engines ever are the up big boy and the gg1.. i feel lke a kid looking up to the frankenstein monster, i want to run away, but i cant take my eyes off this enormous piece of iron which is controlled by just 2 operators!! i heard the big boy could develop 1M lbs. of thrust.. si o no?

[edblysard]

Look here, I think you may like this,,,
http:/www.hobokenterminal.com/
It the unoffical NJT fans website, it should have GG1 in NJT colors...
Have fun, ED

[Anonymous]

The Pennsy also painted five Gs in a silver scheme with a wide red stripe with the large Keystone logo.
Rust from the pantographs stained the silver paint, so the locos didn't keep that scheme for long.
Eric from Doylestown

[Anonymous]

Dave--you did not have one beer too many! One PRR GG1 was cut in half & used as a "shop switcher" at Wilmington DE. (Not really a snowplow.) This loco was pictured in the railfan press many years ago. It may also have been pictured in one of Al Staufer's PRR motive power books or REMARKABLE GG1 by Karl Zimmerman.

[Anonymous]

From what I gather, the GG-1's were retired because it was uneconimical to convert them to 60 cycle current. Now here's a question for the "juice fans", Why can't they take the electrical guts out of an Amtrak E-60, (which are being retired), and re-fit a GG-1 body to operate on todays catenary? Just food for thought, remember the grass-roots group that got 4935 restored to PRR livery? Sure, it would cost some serious bucks, but it IS possible.
Todd C.

[eolafan]

Eric, as a former resident of Chalfont, I was wondering what might be new on the SEPTA (former Reading) line from Doylestown, through Chalfont and to Phila.? Jim from Aurora, IL

[oltmannd]

E60s have nose-suspended DC traction motors like a diesel electric. GG1s have AC motors with quill drive. They are so different in size, shape and construction, that it would be much easier just to put a new transformer and tap switches into a GG1 than try to convert it to DC traction motors. You could probably do a complete rebuild/convert a GG1 to run on 60 Hz for >$1M - not too shaby when a new electric loco goes for several million.

BTW the real problem with the 25/60 Hz issue is that from Penn Sta north to New Haven it is 12,000 VAC 60 Hz, from New Haven to Boston it is 25,000 VAC 60 Hz and the old PRR is still 11,000VAC 25Hz. Amtrak found it cheaper to convert commercial 60Hz power to 25Hz using solid state converter than to redo everything to 60 Hz. The trick is getting a locomotive to run on all 3, which, for a GG1 would be a huge cost.

[eolafan]

Great explanation! Here's something else to consider, if you have ever seen inside the cab of a GG1 you would have found it to be VERY small and cramped for the crew and without any of the modern conveniences or comforts, and I am not sure if the cab would pass by the engineers union or even the federal govt. if it were considered a "new" unit these days.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Don. I have been scratching my head over this one for years, (what is a Quill drive, how does it work)?
Todd C.

[Supermicha]

But I think, its not a problem to rebuild a GG1 to fit all 3 NEC energy systems. In germany, we have locomotives, from the dimension of NJT Alp46´s, which can run with four different energy systems (15kV/16.3 Hz; 25kV/50 Hz; 3 kV DC and 1.5 kV DC)for use all over europe. They are build by Siemens and called Class 185. In the 70´s, the west german railway had also a four system loco in service, the class E310. It was not bigger as the AEM-7. I will say, a four system loco does not need more space than a normal.

Micha

[eolafan]

For those of you obviously interested in the legendary GG1, you will be interested in a great article in TRAINS magazine this month on the Northeast Corridor, lots of print and photos of the GG1.

[cabforward]

which one was called the alligator ( or crocodile )?
i lived in stuttgart 3 years in the '60s, the long green machine was the biggest one i saw..

[eolafan]

The only unit I have ever heard of being called an "Alligator" was an Alco diesel-electric back intg the 1950's built for the Santa Fe.

[dknelson]

The "alligator" was an Alco diesel with a long long front hood
The Crokodil is a European electric locomotive with side rods on large drive wheels, very distinctive looking, and yes Green at least in some versions. It might have been on both German and Swiss railroads and I think Marklin and Fleischmann had/have HO versions.
Dave Nelson

[Supermicha]

Also in europe was a loco called alligator or Crocodile. it was a 2-6-6-2, 3 part articulatet electric locomotive, one of the biggest and strongest of there time. the first where built in the mid 1930´s i think. some are still in use as museum locos. the had two long low hoods, including the engines, and a high hood in the middle with the cabs and the electrical parts. also in germany was a loco called crocodile in use, a 6-6 electrical freight loco, called class E94.

Micha

[Anonymous]

Putting modern traction motors and filling the inards of a GG-1 with modern electronic compnents to make it run would make it into a fake gg1. I'd love to see one restored and operated on main line, but it should be mechanicaly like the originals. The real GG-1,s were almost silent motors. I beleive the older technoligy of those engines will run on lesser voltage than built for and even on diffferent frequencies. Maybe not at 99 mph tho.
ps: the GG-1 looked good even in PC black.

[eolafan]

Great idea, and I seem to remember a while back that somebody had a similar idea to have EMD start building the E-9 passenger unit again with updated and modern technology, but this idea was pooh-poohed. I know I for one would much rather see an E-9 on the head end of an Amtrak train than the ugly Genesis units of today and the same goes for the Metra trains of today with the somewhat better looking but still plain F40's (I remember fondly the Metra trains of not too many years ago with the Green/Black/White BN E-9 units.