GG1 in service?

[dknelson]

The Illinois Railroad Museum wire has standard trolley voltage -- maybe 600 volts. I doubt if the GG1 could do much with that even assuming it is in running order. By the way they also have a South Shore Little Joe, another large and interesting electric. Speaking of which the museum in Duluth has a Milwaukee Road boxcab that is also an imrpessive sight
Dave Nelson

[eolafan]

Todd, you are correct, the two GG1's in the Midwest are at the Illinois Railway Museum in Union, IL and the other is in the National Railway Museum in Green Bay, WI. I agree that seeing a G motor under wire again would be cool, but not likely to happen (the IRM has some wire hung and run some of their electric motors during warmer weather, but not the GG1).

[Anonymous]

There are existant GG-1's all over the country. The GG-1 was a classic, but, and don't take this the wrong way, I think it is the most "over-preserved" locomotive ever, considering its original home territory. The last I knew, there were at least two of them in the Illinois/Wisconsin area alone. Far removed from ex-Pennsy catenary. But, it's better to have them, than not have them, no matter where they may be. Now here is a suggestion. One of these traction museums should juice up their overhead wires with the proper current to allow one of the big G's to move again under its own power. Just a thought........
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

that "GG-1" probibuly be the B&O r.r. museums. the roster of the colection shows two. csx is probibuly storing it there untill they reroof the place. i think that is the right answer. farmall kid

[Anonymous]

steamlocomotive.com has info on the GG1 as well it even has the survivors listed as well

[Anonymous]

For those interested, there is a GG-1 parked in a CSX yard on the south side of Baltimore. I have no idea why it is there but it has been there for quite some time. It was dark when I saw it so I could not discern what color or roadname it was wearing. Bill

[Anonymous]

Jim,
Depends how long its been since you've been here.
I havn't been on the R5 since I graduated from Temple U. in 1995, but I know I've seen the AEM7s running push-pull on the express trains during rush hour.
I also understand that the Lansdale station has been renovated so it probably looks a little less like a scene from an old Russian movie inside, with its leaking stained glass windows and wishful-thinking radiators making people think the waiting room's heated.
In Doylestown, the freight house has been skinned, its steel trusses and columns waiting for new sheathing and new life as a brew-pub. I'll have to drive by tonight and see what it looks like, the last time I remember checking it out was in the summer.
Generally, the line has been modernized, the stretch from Lansdale to Gladwynnne doesn't shake your breakfast out of your stomach any more, and the platforms have all gotten ADA-compliant wheelchair loading platforms.
Lastly, the old Silverliners are sporting a stylin' new red-fade-to-blue stripe along the windows, and of course ditch lights bolted to the front of the old MU cars.
Eric from Doylestown

[Anonymous]

I beleive the German class 118 electric units had similar quil type drives to the GG-1.

[Anonymous]

Hmmmmm, velly interstink... vill have to look into dis.... :-)

[oltmannd]

I'm no expert at quill drives, but I beleive the quill is a hollow shaft with the axle inside it. This hollow shaft is either the motor armature shaft itself or is drive by the motor(s). I think the GG1s had 2 motors per axle. The quill pushes against spokes on the wheels to transmit the motor torque to the wheel. If you look closely at a GG1 picture, you can see the quill pads against the wheel spokes.

[oltmannd]

It would be a stretch calling it a rebuild. All you'd be saving from the original would be the carbody and, perhaps, the truck frames. It would cost more than a new electric loco of similar capacity because you'd have to build some one-of-a-kind traction motors for it.

[Anonymous]

first let me say that you can find a ton of european railpicts at the following url: http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/ the Austrain 1020 is an ecellent example of the Eurpean Crocodile. they where build in the late 30's when Austra was unfortinatly under german controll so they also apperared on the german railways.
Back to the GG1s they could probily run with the electrifcation scheem north of Penn Station.

[eolafan]

Great idea, and I seem to remember a while back that somebody had a similar idea to have EMD start building the E-9 passenger unit again with updated and modern technology, but this idea was pooh-poohed. I know I for one would much rather see an E-9 on the head end of an Amtrak train than the ugly Genesis units of today and the same goes for the Metra trains of today with the somewhat better looking but still plain F40's (I remember fondly the Metra trains of not too many years ago with the Green/Black/White BN E-9 units.

[Anonymous]

Putting modern traction motors and filling the inards of a GG-1 with modern electronic compnents to make it run would make it into a fake gg1. I'd love to see one restored and operated on main line, but it should be mechanicaly like the originals. The real GG-1,s were almost silent motors. I beleive the older technoligy of those engines will run on lesser voltage than built for and even on diffferent frequencies. Maybe not at 99 mph tho.
ps: the GG-1 looked good even in PC black.

[Supermicha]

Also in europe was a loco called alligator or Crocodile. it was a 2-6-6-2, 3 part articulatet electric locomotive, one of the biggest and strongest of there time. the first where built in the mid 1930´s i think. some are still in use as museum locos. the had two long low hoods, including the engines, and a high hood in the middle with the cabs and the electrical parts. also in germany was a loco called crocodile in use, a 6-6 electrical freight loco, called class E94.

Micha

[dknelson]

The "alligator" was an Alco diesel with a long long front hood
The Crokodil is a European electric locomotive with side rods on large drive wheels, very distinctive looking, and yes Green at least in some versions. It might have been on both German and Swiss railroads and I think Marklin and Fleischmann had/have HO versions.
Dave Nelson

[eolafan]

The only unit I have ever heard of being called an "Alligator" was an Alco diesel-electric back intg the 1950's built for the Santa Fe.

[cabforward]

which one was called the alligator ( or crocodile )?
i lived in stuttgart 3 years in the '60s, the long green machine was the biggest one i saw..

[eolafan]

For those of you obviously interested in the legendary GG1, you will be interested in a great article in TRAINS magazine this month on the Northeast Corridor, lots of print and photos of the GG1.

[Supermicha]

But I think, its not a problem to rebuild a GG1 to fit all 3 NEC energy systems. In germany, we have locomotives, from the dimension of NJT Alp46´s, which can run with four different energy systems (15kV/16.3 Hz; 25kV/50 Hz; 3 kV DC and 1.5 kV DC)for use all over europe. They are build by Siemens and called Class 185. In the 70´s, the west german railway had also a four system loco in service, the class E310. It was not bigger as the AEM-7. I will say, a four system loco does not need more space than a normal.

Micha

[Anonymous]

Thanks Don. I have been scratching my head over this one for years, (what is a Quill drive, how does it work)?
Todd C.

[eolafan]

Great explanation! Here's something else to consider, if you have ever seen inside the cab of a GG1 you would have found it to be VERY small and cramped for the crew and without any of the modern conveniences or comforts, and I am not sure if the cab would pass by the engineers union or even the federal govt. if it were considered a "new" unit these days.

[oltmannd]

E60s have nose-suspended DC traction motors like a diesel electric. GG1s have AC motors with quill drive. They are so different in size, shape and construction, that it would be much easier just to put a new transformer and tap switches into a GG1 than try to convert it to DC traction motors. You could probably do a complete rebuild/convert a GG1 to run on 60 Hz for >$1M - not too shaby when a new electric loco goes for several million.

BTW the real problem with the 25/60 Hz issue is that from Penn Sta north to New Haven it is 12,000 VAC 60 Hz, from New Haven to Boston it is 25,000 VAC 60 Hz and the old PRR is still 11,000VAC 25Hz. Amtrak found it cheaper to convert commercial 60Hz power to 25Hz using solid state converter than to redo everything to 60 Hz. The trick is getting a locomotive to run on all 3, which, for a GG1 would be a huge cost.

[eolafan]

Eric, as a former resident of Chalfont, I was wondering what might be new on the SEPTA (former Reading) line from Doylestown, through Chalfont and to Phila.? Jim from Aurora, IL

[Anonymous]

From what I gather, the GG-1's were retired because it was uneconimical to convert them to 60 cycle current. Now here's a question for the "juice fans", Why can't they take the electrical guts out of an Amtrak E-60, (which are being retired), and re-fit a GG-1 body to operate on todays catenary? Just food for thought, remember the grass-roots group that got 4935 restored to PRR livery? Sure, it would cost some serious bucks, but it IS possible.
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

Dave--you did not have one beer too many! One PRR GG1 was cut in half & used as a "shop switcher" at Wilmington DE. (Not really a snowplow.) This loco was pictured in the railfan press many years ago. It may also have been pictured in one of Al Staufer's PRR motive power books or REMARKABLE GG1 by Karl Zimmerman.

[Anonymous]

The Pennsy also painted five Gs in a silver scheme with a wide red stripe with the large Keystone logo.
Rust from the pantographs stained the silver paint, so the locos didn't keep that scheme for long.
Eric from Doylestown

[edblysard]

Look here, I think you may like this,,,
http:/www.hobokenterminal.com/
It the unoffical NJT fans website, it should have GG1 in NJT colors...
Have fun, ED

[cabforward]

the largest and most intimidating engines ever are the up big boy and the gg1.. i feel lke a kid looking up to the frankenstein monster, i want to run away, but i cant take my eyes off this enormous piece of iron which is controlled by just 2 operators!! i heard the big boy could develop 1M lbs. of thrust.. si o no?