Simon Reed wrote: The Polish machine is out of traffic at the moment. We had a Peckett 0-4-0ST (1438 of 1916), a Yorkshire 0-6-0 diesel electric and ex BR "02" D2853 - carrying a 26D shed plate (Bank Hall.) The tours are operated by the Appleby Frodingham Railway Preservation Society using their stock and traction although I understand that on special occasions Corus locos are used. I'm not even sure where Normanby Park was. I presume that it was rail-served, but I probably first went to Cleethorpes with a "40" in about 1981 and can only remember Appleby-Frodingham. Mind you, that's a long time ago and I'd have been listening more than looking!
The Polish machine is out of traffic at the moment.
We had a Peckett 0-4-0ST (1438 of 1916), a Yorkshire 0-6-0 diesel electric and ex BR "02" D2853 - carrying a 26D shed plate (Bank Hall.)
The tours are operated by the Appleby Frodingham Railway Preservation Society using their stock and traction although I understand that on special occasions Corus locos are used.
I'm not even sure where Normanby Park was. I presume that it was rail-served, but I probably first went to Cleethorpes with a "40" in about 1981 and can only remember Appleby-Frodingham.
Mind you, that's a long time ago and I'd have been listening more than looking!
Normanby Park steelworks was about 3 miles north of Scunthorpe and was served by the North Lindsey Light Railway which left the mainline at Trent Junction, near the old Frodingham Motive Power Depot. This line originally went as far as the bank of the River Humber at Winteringham. It also served ironstone mines at Crosby, Dragonby and Winterton. These mines closed in the 1970s when British Steel started using high grade imported ore instead of the fairly low grade local ore. Right up to the end of local ore mining, Appleby-Frodingham Ore Ming Branch used their own locomotives and wagons on the NLLR between the mines and the works in Scunthorpe.
Malc.
owlsroost wrote: . BTW, if the Mk2's at Oxley are the ex-VWC Euston - Birmingham - Wolverhampton stock, I'd be surprised if they weren't just awaiting collection for the scrap dealer - they've had 35 years of hard life already. Tony
.
BTW, if the Mk2's at Oxley are the ex-VWC Euston - Birmingham - Wolverhampton stock, I'd be surprised if they weren't just awaiting collection for the scrap dealer - they've had 35 years of hard life already.
Tony
If they're only fit for scrap how come the New Zealand railways have bought some, and refurbuished some with sliding doors at 1/3rd and 2/3rd along the body. Now if the ROSCO's were not as risk averse as GNER, they could do something like that and rent them out.
I hope the Rosco's do find a home for all the ex-TPE 158's (I think some are going to SWT for Waterloo-Exeter services, and TPE might need to keep some for Northwest-Scotland services if that moves out of the CrossCountry franchise, for starters).
One thing mentioned in the Modern Railways piece was that FGW was changing the supplier of it's 158's because they'd got a better deal from another Rosco, which does illustrate that a commercial market operates.
At the end of the day, there's nothing to stop a TOC buying trains itself, but (except for FGW's HST stockpile, as far as I know) they've all decided to pay someone else to carry that commercial risk.
Hugh Jampton wrote:Toronto had a load of them at one time. I don't suspect there's any left though..
Toronto has 2 PCCs left but they are used only for charters now (along with the Peter Witt). Toronto did have the largest fleet of PCC cars and also the largest fleet of used PCC cars.
What's this got to do with British Railways?
--David
John Baker
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I dont know but hopefully it may have boosted rail travel. After all, rail does not need such stringent security measures because trains dont drop out of the sky! Ever since 9/11 airport securiy procedures have been stepped. As this adds to the journey time it takes to get somewhere by air, this should tip the balance in favour of rail. Before 9/11 it was thought that 3 hours was the maximum journey time over which rail was competitive; if it is now 4 hours then that could mean Virgin's new Pendolinos could attract extra business on the London - Glasgow route. Back in the 1980's British Rail chairman Sir Peter Parker described this as the biggest passenger market which BR did not dominate.
At that time BR's hopes were pinned on the tilting Advanced Passenger Train (APT) which came within an ace of success but was ditched at the last minute. Now Virgin have got their tilting Pendolines up and running and are now looking to run them at 135mph.
Meanwhile, the opening next year of both Phase of the Channel Tunnel Rail Link, from London St. Pancras to Ebbsfleet and the LGV ("Ligne a Grand Vitess" - French for high speed line) Est from Paris to Cologne (Germany) will mean that you'll be able to travel by train from London to Cologne in less time that in takes from London to Edinburgh (just over 4 hours).
Tulyar15 wrote:I dont know but hopefully it may have boosted rail travel. After all, rail does not need such stringent security measures because trains dont drop out of the sky! Ever since 9/11 airport securiy procedures have been stepped. As this adds to the journey time it takes to get somewhere by air, this should tip the balance in favour of rail. Before 9/11 it was thought that 3 hours was the maximum journey time over which rail was competitive; if it is now 4 hours then that could mean Virgin's new Pendolinos could attract extra business on the London - Glasgow route. Back in the 1980's British Rail chairman Sir Peter Parker described this as the biggest passenger market which BR did not dominate. At that time BR's hopes were pinned on the tilting Advanced Passenger Train (APT) which came within an ace of success but was ditched at the last minute. Now Virgin have got their tilting Pendolines up and running and are now looking to run them at 135mph. Meanwhile, the opening next year of both Phase of the Channel Tunnel Rail Link, from London St. Pancras to Ebbsfleet and the LGV ("Ligne a Grand Vitess" - French for high speed line) Est from Paris to Cologne (Germany) will mean that you'll be able to travel by train from London to Cologne in less time that in takes from London to Edinburgh (just over 4 hours).
Tulyar15 wrote: owlsroost wrote: . BTW, if the Mk2's at Oxley are the ex-VWC Euston - Birmingham - Wolverhampton stock, I'd be surprised if they weren't just awaiting collection for the scrap dealer - they've had 35 years of hard life already. Tony If they're only fit for scrap how come the New Zealand railways have bought some, and refurbuished some with sliding doors at 1/3rd and 2/3rd along the body. Now if the ROSCO's were not as risk averse as GNER, they could do something like that and rent them out.
Remember that the normal laws of physics don't apply in New Zealand! These guys dug up an 1885 Rogers 2-4-2 - that is dug up, it had been dumped in a river to protect the bank from erosion in the 1920s and had been submerged for more than 40 years. And it went back into service with the shell of the boiler it had when dumped! Since then it got a new welded boiler and a second one was dug up and has joined the first, and they even double headed at least once.
Even the New Zealanders said they were surprised at the extent of rust removal required. The set used on the "Capital Connection" from Wellington to Palmerston North has the original doors, converted to operate as plug doors like those on Irish Mk 3s, but the later cars have sliding doors.
I have heard they were considering buying more Mk 2s, because they are one of the few existing designs outside NZ that fit their clearances. The last new passenger stock was Ganz Mavag (Hungarian) electric two car sets built before the fall of the Berlin Wall. They are still running 1939 English Electric suburban sets in Wellington, that look a bit like 1938 Tube trains (they are bigger than the tube profile, of course).
There is just not enough money in New Zealand for many new passenger trains that need subsidies to run. Most private automobiles in New Zealand are second hand from Japan!
M636C
I had arranged to go to London to meet some friends. In order to travel there as cheaply as possible I had pre-booked a ticket that was valid on
specified trains only.
The situation was complicated by engineering works at Wooten Bassett Junction, between Chippenham
and Swindon. An hourly bus service was running between those two places and an hourly train shuttle
between Chippenham and Bristol Temple Meads . So I booked on the 10:00 train from
Chippenham to Bath and the 10:42 Bath - Paddington. (Trains from Bath to London Paddington were being diverted via Bradford-on-Avon, the normal freight only east curve at Westbury (Wilts.) and Newbury.
All went well in the morning and while waiting for the 10:42 at Bath I saw a steam hauled
special train head through towards Bristol, hauled by Bulleid "Battle of Britain" 4-6-2 34067"Tangmere". Unfortunately I did not get as many shots as I would have liked as I ran out of film!
The 10:42 arrived on time and arrival at Paddington was a couple of minutes early.
All to soon I had to return to Paddington to get the 16:15 back to Bath. No sooner had I boarded than an announcement was made that all trains out of Paddington would be delayed due to a bomb scare at Reading. At 16:30 we were still in Paddington when a further announcement was made than no trains would leave for at least another two hours. Passengers for Exeter and stations west thereof were advised to make their way to Waterloo and catch a train from there. At this point I remembered that Southwest trains run some trains to Bath from Waterloo. I mentioned this to some fellow passengers who were also bound for Bath. One of them who had a WAP phone found that there was a train from Waterloo at 17:20 to Salisbury which would connect in with a train from Salisbury to Bath.
So I decided to get the Bakerloo line to Waterloo (good job I'd kept my day rover ticket!) and got there at about17:00. Expecting to be challenged at the ticket barrier I was amazed to find no one on the gateand I boarded the 17:20 without being challenged. A marked contrast to the barriers at Paddington! (Had I been a terrorist I could have planted a bomb on any of Waterloo's 21domestic platforms!)
It was not till after Woking, the 17:20 having left Waterloo on time, that the guard came round.
I explained my situation and he said I could use my ticket on his train.
Arrival at Salisbury was on time and there I was greeted with the sight of "Tangmere" taking on water. Havingreplenished its tanks, it set off back to its base with just the support crew coach in tow. Fortunately I'd put a fresh film in my camera and was able to get some pics but the light was fading by now.
The Bath bound train arrived and set off on time, and its guard was also aware of the situation and allowedmy ticket. Unfortunately a failed train delayed our arrival at Bath so I had to wait nearly an hour for the 21:17 to Chippenham. I finally arrived home about 22:00, having had to cancel plans to meet some other friends(some of my Avon Valley Railway co-workers) at Keynsham (near Bristol) as it was too late to go there.
Whilst the disruption was frustrating, as a compensation I did get to travel over some lines I dont often get to do. By the time I got back to Bath the "package" at Reading must have been dealt with as there was a stready stream of Great Western High Speed Trains passing thru.
For anyone who's interested, there was a BBC Radio 4 conversation/discussion programme about UK rail privatisation on recently - see http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/thereunion/pip/5cgqd/ - it's available online via 'listen again', and it will be repeated on Friday morning (8th Sept)
My brother has started scanning in his collection of slides some of whih date back to the 1970's. He's put some pics taken in the early 1970's at a number of locations in the West Midlands at:-
http://www.roscalen.com/signals/WestMids/index.htm
Tulyar15 wrote:My brother has started scanning in his collection of slides some of whih date back to the 1970's. He's put some pics taken in the early 1970's at a number of locations in the West Midlands at:- http://www.roscalen.com/signals/WestMids/index.htm
Thanks for the info - very interesting.
The West Midlands photo's take me back at bit - I first got interested in trains around 1972 when I lived in the area (Stourbridge Junction - Birmingham was my local line) - Kidderminster is a few miles SW of Stourbridge on the same line (the 'Old Worse and Worse').
Although Stourbridge Junction didn't have many 'oddities' in signalling terms, at that time it still had three operational signalboxes (south, middle and north) controlling mostly ex-GWR/WR lower-quadrant semaphores.
All changed now - the 'Middle' signalbox building survives as the control centre for the SSI power signalling along the line to Birmingham, but the other two 'boxes and the semaphores are long gone....as are the 'Westerns' hauling china-clay through there in old wooden-bodied wagons to Stoke-on-Trent - a sight to lift the spirits of any enthusiast (a bit of Cornish atmosphere transported north!)
Tulyar - great stuff as usual.
Can't find anything on your brother's site about your Cumbrian trip yet. Having said that there's a good article in this month's RM about Carlisle PSB.
I was over there yesterday (does anyone want a house in Whitehaven please? We can't seem to sell it) and spent an hour or so at St. Bees. Such a fascinating station. I'm writing about it here on a US website and it's a 19th Century anachronism.
Out of perversity...what was on the front of the train passing through Four Oaks? Whatever it was it was working hard.
Hook of Holland - Harwich ferry.
Stena are going to take the HSS Stena Discovery of this route, I think at the end of the year. Regular ferries will be subsituted. I'am not sure if there will be a daytime sailing.
I want to take the opportunity to go to London on the catamaran before it will be used elsewhere.
What is there to see on the rail trip? What route does it take? Is it worthwile to leave the train and take some pictures along the route?
Thanks for the info.
greetings,
Marc Immeker
marcimmeker wrote: Hook of Holland - Harwich ferry. Stena are going to take the HSS Stena Discovery of this route, I think at the end of the year. Regular ferries will be subsituted. I'am not sure if there will be a daytime sailing. I want to take the opportunity to go to London on the catamaran before it will be used elsewhere. What is there to see on the rail trip? What route does it take? Is it worthwile to leave the train and take some pictures along the route? Thanks for the info. greetings, Marc Immeker
The route is along the Harwich branch to the main line at Manningtree, then via Colchester, Chelmsford, Shenfield, Ilford and Stratford to London Liverpool Street. This is the ex Great Eastern Railway main line, electrified at 25kv 50Hz (converted from the original 1500V dc in the 1960's) which carries very heavy commuter traffic and a fair amount of freight traffic (mostly Freightliner container trains from Felixstowe docks on the opposite - north - side of the river from Harwich).
If you have the time for a few diversions, catch a train from Manningtree to Ipswich (one stop east) - alongside the station is a Freightliner loco depot - class 86 and 90 electrics, class 57 and 66 diesels usually. Ipswich yard is just east of the station (where most trains from Felixstowe docks change power or reverse) - the easiest way of seeing what's there is probably to catch a train towards Felixstowe.
Heading towards London, the rural branch to Sudbury connects with the main line at Marks Tey (first stop after Colchester). On the branch, the East Anglia Railway Museum is alongside Chappel & Wakes Colne station (first stop).
Closer to London, there is a major train maintenance depot just east of Ilford station (worth a look as you pass - north side of the line after Seven Kings station).
The last station before Liverpool Street is Stratford - also a terminus for the LU Jubilee Line and a DLR branch (both on the surface, so good for photography). Fast trains tend not to stop at Stratford, so it's probably easiest buy an off-peak Travelcard at Liverpool Street - valid for unlimited travel on trains/underground/DLR/buses within the 'zones' you select - and head back if you're interested in a ride on the DLR system (one of my favourite rides in London because you get a 'drivers eye' view of the track from the front).
For UK rail timetables, maps etc see http://www.nationalrail.co.uk and for transport in London see http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/
If you need more info, let me know....
Thanks Tony.
I will go in october I think so there will be some time left for planning.
Did some digging through the internet and came upon these pictures showing the unloading of ACTS 5811 (former EWS 58039?) in the harbor in Rotterdam-Maasvlakte. I don't know why there is no correspondence in numbers. This is not the eleventh locomotive of this class for ACTS. They have locomotives with numbers 5811, 5812 and 5814.
http://www.rolandrail.net/special/special011.htm
What did this class look like in BR or EWS colours? Where there other companies that used these locomotives?
marcimmeker wrote:Did some digging through the internet and came upon these pictures showing the unloading of ACTS 5811 (former EWS 58039?) in the harbor in Rotterdam-Maasvlakte. I don't know why there is no correspondence in numbers. This is not the eleventh locomotive of this class for ACTS. They have locomotives with numbers 5811, 5812 and 5814. http://www.rolandrail.net/special/special011.htm What did this class look like in BR or EWS colours? Where there other companies that used these locomotives? greetings, Marc Immeker
Simon Reed wrote: Tulyar - great stuff as usual. Can't find anything on your brother's site about your Cumbrian trip yet. Having said that there's a good article in this month's RM about Carlisle PSB. I was over there yesterday (does anyone want a house in Whitehaven please? We can't seem to sell it) and spent an hour or so at St. Bees. Such a fascinating station. I'm writing about it here on a US website and it's a 19th Century anachronism. Out of perversity...what was on the front of the train passing through Four Oaks? Whatever it was it was working hard.
My brother has put a page on for New Cumnock (on the former Glasgow and Sou' West line)
http://www.roscalen.com/signals/NewCumnock/index.htm
but he seems to be concentrating on scanning his archive pics at the moment. As John B pointed, he's only got so much time.
I'm afraid my brother probably didn't record the loco pulling him thru 4 Oaks. It was probably a Sunday as I remember him saying that in those days they often diverted cross country inter city trains via Lichfield on Sundays (I think they still do on occassions, but in those days the Lichfield - Burton-on-Trent line was double track throughout; it's single nowadays). My brother is not particularly interested in locos. This a pity as he has taken one or two good shots which he has not published. The day he went to Wrexham, for instance, he saw three 40's as well as a 25 that you do see on those pics.
Simon Reed wrote: Out of perversity...what was on the front of the train passing through Four Oaks? Whatever it was it was working hard.
If I had to guess, at that period it would be a Holbeck or Gateshead allocated Peak (45/0). If not, it would be a 47 (slightly more likely if it was a train from Newcastle).
Anything else would have had the train-spotters at New Street jumping up and down (me included at the time !)
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