Engineer improperly arrested in TX?

[adrianspeeder]

Wow! Very interesting reading. More stories please Ed.

Adrianspeeder

[nobullchitbids]

Laws are different in different jurisdictions and differently enforced -- here, driving without a driver's license (first offense) is a civil infraction. And, of course, one must be operating a motor vehicle on one of the STATE'S roads.

I've never heard of any law which REQUIRES that one produce a driver's license -- what happens if the person does not have one? All states will issue non-driver's ID cards instead, and one might need one to cash checks; but, they are not mandatory under any law. Do we arrest the "motorist" as well as the engineer if the train has the bad luck of being struck by a bicycle? Or if (since we are in Texas) the train scared a horse?

[Anonymous]

I vote we start making fun of the French again.

First and foremost, I second the above motion...

Now, on to the topic at hand. First, I am a Police Officer in the State of Texas. Not from the Houston area, but the Dallas area. Now, the rules for Police Officers, Sheriffs, Deputies, Constables, Troopers, Agents---they are all the same as set forth in the Texas Transportation Code. I have with me the "ST-100" - Titled "Instructions to Police for Reporting Accidents". This specific book is issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety Accident Records Bureau.

On page 11 at the very bottom I'll qoute verbatim a quick paragraph---

"If Unit 2 (the other part of the accident) was a train, streetcar, etc., check appropriate box of if other, check box and indicate which. Show the name of the engineer or operator in space for "Driver's Name," and insert "Train Engineer" or "Streetcar Operator" in space provided for driver's license number (DO NOT show driver's license number). If casualties occur on train, streetcar, etc., complete information on back of report labeled "Casualties Not in Motor Vehicle."

The State of Texas is very clear, so much that they underlined and capitalized the part about not needing ANY drivers license information. I won't take sides in the above debate, but thats at least the way I have filled out Accident Reports in the past and will continue to do so in the future.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by lrpaul

In Texas and Oklahoma you can become a officer of the law with very little training. And the ones who take the jobs are the one who are too scared to steal and too lazy to work.
The good ole' boy system is very deeply intrenched. Just drive down one of our highways and you will be passed by a law officer doing at least 10 to 20 mile per hour over the speed limit. They will never be stopped. When they are in there personal cars and are stopped for speeding all they have to do is show there badge or card, they are allowed to go on there marry way with out a ticket.
I think the engineer is telling the truth, why would he not want to cooperate with the law he did nothing wrong and take a chance on loosing his job. Because the accident would have been filed under his drivers license number had he produced it.

Yeah just slightly more than it took to write this garbage. If you guys think that Texas is the only place this exists....I suggest you pull your cranium from your anium...I've come across the same local cop mentality in just about every state I've lived...and a couple of other countries...so give it a rest.......

Any other stereotypes we want to perpetuate today......people from California, how bout Mainers....people from Minnesota????

hmmm just noticed it's the parade of first time posters......

I vote we start making fun of the French again.

LOL Gabe, that is ALWAYS a target rich environment...

LC

[edbenton]

It used to be said in the deep south that one term as Sherrif set you up for life. I also dealt with IDIOTS in law enforcement when I drove OTR. I had a rookie in Oregan give me a ticket when I was in a RUNAWAY TRUCK coming off of a hill known as cabbage. That F****** IDIOT ALSO TRIED TO GET ME FOR TRING TO EVADE A POLICE OFFICER. I ha NO BRAKES WHATSO EVER. When I finally was able to get the truck stopped he did not even know how to look at a logbook. His supervisor ripped up the evading ticket and also called the DA to get my ticket for speeding lowered to 60 in a 55 verus 82 in a 55. Still I felt like I was bent over and took it *******.

[Anonymous]

Well if the sheriff officers in Montgomery Co. Texas are not well educated, I hope the county attorney has some form of formal education. When they do a little research in federal law and state law pertaining to railroad accidents they will probably believe it is not worth their time and effort to take the case of engineer Stokes to court. Who wants to be embarrassed?

This is based up on the all the “expert” testimony present by the benevolent authoritative writers in the form.

[edblysard]

Mike..
First, let me make it perfectly clear..
The Montgomery County bunch is the exception to the rule here in Texas...
But you know that already!

Most law enforcement officers in Texas are professionals, and any county or city would be darn lucky to have a few of them on their force...

Tarrant County is an excellent example of what a determined Sheriff can turn a department into...from a good ole boy system into a department that sets standards other should follow.

Every time I have dealt with them and the Dallas county guys...not to mention the Dallas Police Dept., I have been shown all the professional courtesies you would expect, and that extra amount of effort to get it right...

LRSmith...
Well, part of the problem is that the DA is an elected office....and a good politician knows who controls what in their county...so...

Ed

[Rodney Beck]

Junctionfan the railroads train their own engineers under the FRA guide lines for engineer ceritfication and yes all locomotive engineers are regestierd with the FRA.

Rodney
Locomitive engineer BNSF

[Junctionfan]

Thankyou for your response Rodney.

When watching COPS, I like the professionalism particularly of Fort Worth's Police. Some of them are unusually patient with real criminals until the scum get out of line and become a threat and then they remind them who the law enforcer is.

[Anonymous]

I just have to say *** THA POLICE!!!!!!!!

[gregmc]

This same senerio happened last year here in Putnam Co. WV. A CSX train struck a car that pulled out in front of them. When asked by the deputy to provide his license, the engineer refused. I don't remember if he showed him his engineer card or not. The engineer was arrested for obstruction. A few months later the charges were dropped.

Greg McCartney

[Anonymous]

I belive the engineer was well within his rights. With fedral law on his side it should be no problem, but pollitics always gum up the works. Especially if he seemed to be trying to hide something.
He also did not want to risk having his insurance rates skyrocket. If he showed his driver's lisence it could haunt him forever.[xx(]

[Anonymous]

1) Police is always right.
2) in case that the Police is not right, see 3)
3) In case of 2) ; 1) is in effect

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Herbert Schwarz

1) Police is always right.
2) in case that the Police is not right, see 3)
3) In case of 2) ; 1) is in effect

I have been involved (with out mentioning whose side I was on) in quite a few instances of police (or more accurately the State or local municipality) paying a lot of 6-figure appologies for them being always right.

Gabe

[Anonymous]

I had a similar incident occur during an auto vs. train collision I was investigating. The engineer had a real attitude, but did not realize I was a ralfan as well as a peace officer. I asked him for his engineer's ID (not his drivier's license) and he refused saying he didn't want to have his name on the report for fear of civil action. Once I told him if he failed to comply I would arrest him as a transient and book him for trespassing on railroad property, he promptly cooperated and the investigation concluded without further incident.

[Anonymous]

The law is a very complex endeavor, heck lawyers get it wrong all the time. In Nevada a rancher was asked for his Drivers Lic, he refused the request, because he'd done nothing wrong and was not driving, he was arrested for some stupid charge like "Not being Friendly to a cop," not really, it was some trumped up charge like failure to comply with an order of a policeman, or something like that...

The US Supreme court upheld his convection and stated a person must produce proof of just who you are if ask by a cop, no matter if you didn't do anything wrong .

And Jade Girl, I was in Hawthorne, NV and stopped for a cup of coffee and a leg stretch, and a cop, with nothing better to do at 4:00 AM came up to me and threaten me with arrest for parking too close to a Red zone.

You work for us, the everyday taxpaying people, don't forget that. If you'd been a people's cop, you'd know to "high ball" his name, because you could get it from his railroad later.

Thanks for making an everyday working stiff feel like a piece of garbage and a criminal.

Jim - Lawton, NV MP 236

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jadegirl

I had a similar incident occur during an auto vs. train collision I was investigating. The engineer had a real attitude, but did not realize I was a ralfan as well as a peace officer. I asked him for his engineer's ID (not his drivier's license) and he refused saying he didn't want to have his name on the report for fear of civil action. Once I told him if he failed to comply I would arrest him as a transient and book him for trespassing on railroad property, he promptly cooperated and the investigation concluded without further incident.

Jade -

As an attorney who formerly represented numerous police officers and departments I can tell you that if you did arrest the engineer on railroad property on the charge you propose that you would have violated Federal Law and could have subjected yourself and your department to a vaild civil action under 42 U.S.C. 1983 as well as a proper dismissal of the criminal charges. Your arrest would have been beyond your jurisdiction. I'd urge you to think carefully about that fact if the situation should ever occur again. Oh, and again, I have been a police officer, prosecutor, locomotive engineer, conductor and RR manager as well, so I have walked in many of the shoes involved...

Oh, and I still make my primary living working on the rails.

LC

[selector]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cowboy2910

I just have to say *** THA POLICE!!!!!!!!

Except, if you ever needed one it would be, "Where's the ****ing police?!!"

Reminds me of a poem with lines something like:

"It's Tommy this, and Tommy that,
And chuck him out, the Brute!
But he's Hero of His Country
when the guns begin to shoot."

I have never been treated except with professionalism and courtesy by American and Canadian police. Of course, at my age, even had it been otherwise I know that humans are just that. We have a few bad soldiers, bad cops, bad lawyers, and bad priests. The preponderance are not so.

[Anonymous]

So you need a cop Selector,

"Except, if you ever needed one it would be, "Where's the ****ing police?!!"

The "F++King police, he is eating a krisky kream donut for free!

Just read Jade's comments, a power tripper.

Jim

[dharmon]

Gosh ...and some people wonder why some cops can be the way they are....

hmm..good and bad cops...
hmmm good and bad railraod guys...
hmmm good and bad examples of just about everything....

for every bad cop story there's the one about the guys that helped someone...or kept someone from getting hurt...oh yeah we seem to forget about those...it's only the ones that created "a problem" for someone....

[Anonymous]

I noticed something else, as you were all talking about the incident. It was stated in the article, that the engineer came to a stop, and his conductor(s) got off to see if there was any cross traffic coming. They saw nothing so they flagged the engineer to proceed, then all of a sudden out of nowhere, this car comes up and hits the train.

It sounds to me like someone was trying to set this one up. I agree about the small town cops, because even up here in hte city or outskirts of the city, they lay for whoever they want. I live outside of Chicago, so no one asks. Up here, if an accident occurs, the local police department comes in and starts the investigation, until the Railroad Police arrive on the scene. Then they do their own investigation, but both departments co-operate with each other.

Another thing about being a Railroad police officer is the fact that they have more jurisdction than any other police department anywhere, except for the Federal dept.'s.
The only trouble is their jurisdiction is with whatever city that their company has tracks through.

ralph zimmer [e-mail]

[Anonymous]

Originally posted by stdwight

Wandering astray, I wonder if the writer who bashed the press really read the story before commenting. I know journalists sometimes "slant" their stories, but as a professional journalist for 45 years, I saw a thorough, well-balanced story.
The reporter wrote what the engineer said, what the arresting officers said, what other officers at the scene said, and what everybody replied to what everybody else had said. How can one be more balanced.
Will
[
/quote] If this is the way you saw it, then go back and read the whole story again. It said that the engineer said he saw the lights flashing, but the gates did not go down. So he stopped his train while the conductor(s)o got off and walked to the front of the train. When they saw no traffic coming, they flagged him to proceed (which he did with caution), when out of nowhere this car came along and hit the train.

Before stating the reporters are always right, read all of the words. I have seen stories get written and then twisted around to fit the way the reporter says it happened, when he/she didn't explain the whole story.

ralph zimmer [e-mail]

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