Truck Driver Shortage

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

So, when is enough enough! I'm a LTL driver - got good medical, retirement...

Jim

I'm ever so glad you are proud of being an overpaid delivery man. Not what I'd want for my son.

LC

Well, I'm so proud of all of my sons. But, one became an overpaid deliveryman just like his DAD. Without any help from me, he got a LT company to train him, after his servitude, he found a Monday through Friday job, during daylight hours which pays him $50,000 bucks a year with good benefits, thats company paid health and welfare, not bad for a young man who for one reason or other didn't follow the college track.

Like I said, he did it with no help from me!

Jim

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

So, when is enough enough! I'm a LTL driver - got good medical, retirement...

Jim

Enough of you was enough when you made your first post. GET LOST.

LC

I can certainly understand your sentiment about GETTING LOST. Maybe I should GET LOST. But, I think what I really need to do is become a part of this online community. So, I'll end the salty tongue the glebe remarks and the pot-shoots.

I'll endeavor to be an asset. It will not be easy, but I'll work towards that...Not positive or educated postings to a thread, call me down!

I feel good posting this within this thread

Jim

[Anonymous]

Them younger drivers ought not to go that far west.

They get lonely and bored being so far from nothing.

Stick em on the North east runs. If they can survive for a year accident free, then I send em west as much they want to.

[passengerfan]

Yep tried 14A had deliveries for Cody, Powell, Sheridan and Gillette all scheduled for the same day. I made it and it was my first and last time I ever ran that highway I guess the boss took pity on me. Being the Senior driver the boss use to send me to all the armpits of the Western U.S. his argument was I had more experience therefore he didn't have to worry if I was on the load. My argument was how are the younger drivers ever going to get the experience if you don't send them on these routes. I liked it better when his dad was sending out the loads he agreed that all drivers will have to learn sooner or later so it might as well be sooner. I was sorry when he retired. But I must admit i did have one favoirite somewhat regulkar route and that was starting in Washington State and deliverinmg down the Oregon and California Coasts to L A. Another of the nicer routes was along the Columbia River and making the deliveries all the way to Salt Lake City. But probably the most enjoyment was the summer i ran cback and forth for the entire summer between Sparks and Las Vegas NV. Our company was one of the largest transporters of Slot Machines out of Las Vegas so got to see all 48 states and even some of the Canadian Provinces while employed their. The best part is we ran empty back to Vegas for then next load and got paid the same as if we were loaded.

[Anonymous]

Any of you guys ever try U.S. Highway 14A between Sheridan and Lovell Wyoming? When we were kids on a family vacation back in 1970 my dad pulled a trailer over that road. The signs said "No Trucks" so we should have taken notice, I guess. Three hours, three screaming kids and one screaming mom later, we finally made it into Lovell with some bent trailer parts in tow. On the plus side, I got to see my only CB&Q train near Lovell (it was right before the merger).

[Anonymous]

There is an arizona scale house with a picture of a semi trailer lost on a mountain curve at near 8,000 foot from someone trying to by pass it...

Was this the road passengerfan?

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by passengerfan

Probably tried it myself . I unloaded X-ray equipment at Edwards Air Foirce Base one friday and found I did not have enough fuel to get to LA so found out their was no place to get diesel in the Lancaster Palmdale area i pulled in to a home heating oil agent and asked if he could spare enough diesel to get me to LA he said better than that i'll fill ypur tanks and charge it to the California Highway Patrol who are getting there tank filled in the morning at there regional headquarters. I paid him for what the meter showed no fuel taxes or sales taxes of any kind. He was right it was the cheapest fuel I ever bought in California and I wonder if he really did bill the home oil to the CHP.

Yeah that's the same stuff only he found it in the southern part of Rochester when he ran out and yes it was true cheaper mainly because it was home heating oil with a different tint or coloring in it.

[passengerfan]

Might also suggest if you want a hair raising experience with a big rig try alternate 89 from Prescott to Sedona. First and only time up their was in the middle of the night and the signs said no trucks. But rather than turn around and turn at Prescott and take the truck route I guess it was my bull headedness or maybe stupidity or maybe both I kept going. It probably was a good thing it was about two in the morning when i descended as I never meant a car on the entire descent and it was just as well. I took the entire highway and watched my doughnut wheeled trailers rub the guard rails as i negotiated the tightest curves I have ever seen. When I got to Sedona where my Morning delivery was I was shaking to much to crawl in the sleeper for some much needed rest. In the morning when they were unloading the Grocery Store Check stands and Produce tables one of the grocery truck drivers I was talking to said it was a good thing they didn't catch me on that highway as the fine was 500.00. As I weaved my way through Cottonwood that early AM even the local Police car was parked and in bed where anyone with any sense would have been. Can't say I'm sorry I no longer drive trucks but today I don't think I would have attempted that little drive.

[Anonymous]

Pshaw... that is pretty good for mountian driving passengerfan.

I heard stories about a place called "Salt Lick" which is down in Arizona. I have had it described as a pass so dangerous that your "Inside" trailer wheels are rubbing against the broken rock wall on a curve while your tractor's outside dual wheels are hanging over open space that spans thousands of feet. As you drove you had to hang out the window and look at your left steer to make sure you did not lose the pavement.

I dont know if this was a story designed to scare non mountain driving folks white or not but legends have a kernel of truth.

I personally had to a dangerous drive at a quarry in the Northeast. They had a rock bridge that reached the exit gate at the plant. This bridge is nothing more than a spacer between two seperate quarries that have been worked on since America became a nation or so they say...

On that bridge there is hundreds of feet drop on either side. It is just 2 feet wider than a tractor trailer's wheels. On the pavement is painted a 1 foot wide yellow line. There are gaurds at either end of this path which was several hundred feet long. These gaurds take your waiver and next of kin information and in some cases your last will and testament should you choose to provide one on a peice of scrap paper.

On signal you are allowed to take as much time as needed keeping the left steer tire on that yellow line. You are told that if your steer tire goes "Out of bounds" off that yellow strip you are going to die that day.

believe me, I saw nothing but yellow paint on that cracked and worn pavement. After I made that trip I stood at the other gaurdshack smoking a cigerette and appreciating how wonderful that day was.

The regulars who work or go in and out of the plant daily takes that bridge in stride. It was the outside drivers who deliver freight in there that were taken care of with special care.

[passengerfan]

If you want a rough Mountain pass to run I would suggest you eaterners try highway 160 across southern Colorado they have a pass down there called Wolf Creek and have seen it make grown men cry just driving an RV over that one. Got caught by a early fall storm and the trucks didn't even have their plows on yet Yes I Chained up and I probably would have put even more chains on if I had had more. Going westbound there is a very sharp curve at the bootonm of the long downgrade with what lokks to be a thousand foot drop if you miss this turn. Between my daughter, wife and Wolf Creek Pass I earned every gray hair on my head.

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

Carload railroading sucks!

I once wrote a simple computer simulation of a carload system and it showed the system would (suprise) produce erradic delivery times, cars would pass each other in transit and arrive out of order. They would also bunch up.
Just like the real world.

There are too many "events" in loose car railroading - and each event has an opportunity for failure. And there's little anyone can do to fix reliability on the carload side.

Intermodal and unit trains work becuse they reduce the number of "events". Basically solid trains just run from origin to destination with intermediate handling (such as the cross town in Chicago) being done by truck.

Railroads can, and do, produce good reliable truck competivie service with their intermodal operations (UPS proves that). And the apples will some day find their way into double stack service.

Here is some data from the real loose car world. A car of acetic acid from a ???? in Bayport, TX to the then GATX tank farm in Wilmington, CA, if operating exactly according to schdule, would have experienced 132 events back in 1995 on this main line route. If the process performs correctly 95% of the time that means there is a miss 5% of the time. 132x5%=660%. Rail is cheap but you better have a lot of safety stock inventory in Wilmington.

[Anonymous]

There is a 76 off I-78 in Jersey about 7 miles this side of the PA line.

Parking problems that time. Cops were in force writing tickets. One trucker pulled out of the no parking I pulled into his spot. Walked into the restraunt while angry bear was writing one down the line.

Eat dinner and watch about 6 officers show up, and continued to eat dinner very slowly watching them across the road.

3 hours later I came out to the rig and all 7 were irate. They were very angry that they lost command of the english language. Between shouted gibberish reinforced by spittle I gathered that I will be:

1- Inspected
2- Rechecked
3- papers checked, load checked
4- weighed
5- ticketed
6- charged and hauled off to jail
7 billed for delay of law enforcement personel

and any number of dire problems ranging from casteration to the spanish inqusition.

Seeing both sides with doors open in the cab and several pairs of boots swinging as all of them fought thier way into the cab was one for the books. I didnt know that many could fit in at once.

$130 dollars later I headed on my way. I suppose it was worth it to just sit for 3 hours at dinner (and desert, conversta5tion coffee etc) while they waited.

[passengerfan]

Probably tried it myself . I unloaded X-ray equipment at Edwards Air Foirce Base one friday and found I did not have enough fuel to get to LA so found out their was no place to get diesel in the Lancaster Palmdale area i pulled in to a home heating oil agent and asked if he could spare enough diesel to get me to LA he said better than that i'll fill ypur tanks and charge it to the California Highway Patrol who are getting there tank filled in the morning at there regional headquarters. I paid him for what the meter showed no fuel taxes or sales taxes of any kind. He was right it was the cheapest fuel I ever bought in California and I wonder if he really did bill the home oil to the CHP.

[Sterling1]

I may not be a truck driver but my uncle is . . . been driving for years he's almost in his sixties

From a few of the stories he told some were as bad those mentioned above .

I'm not sure but I think he was based mainly in the Rochester NY area as a commercail trucker not interstate . . .

He had a certain story which he told that I won't mention here unless asked for it
It had something illegal to do with the fuel . . .

If there are any gov't types out in the trains forum . . . leave you don't want to hear this

By request only . . .

[Anonymous]

I'll indulge you a little bit on the terror in the hills.

I was told a story by a west virginia trucker one night. Here is what I remember of it...

I a-fixing to come across that dar sandstone. If you aint nevah seen dat sandstone you will someday. One night it was raining at the bottom and snowing at the top and fog in between. First thing I noticed was a bad wheel on the way to the truckstop near the line at a place called sulphur springs.

I see folks on the side saying bad wreck down there, they be souls seeking god tonight. I passed them seeing it aint dinner time yet and this rig has to go. Long grade towards the bottom the brakes start to smoke and fade. The more air I spent on the hot and hotter brakes the less stopping I had.

Shifting the cigar to the other side and seeing the big red low air light as the broken springs fell away in a shower of sparks... a CB call came in.. please mr. trucker stop your rig before you hit that wreck at the bottom on sulpher springs my family is still stuck in that car.

Wal.. Ive driven many a year and seen many a problem to be solved. This one jest calls for some sacrifice. No brakes, rig on fire, steepining grade and a failing engine from being over driven by the tranny to hold it down on the roadway. The broken concrete hammers at the wheel making it hard to hold the increasingly unstable rig.

The lights of the police, ambulance shows on the windshield in the glare of the fire behind my cab advancing towards me. I need to decide if I will go to the right and into the great river 300 feet below or to the left and hit the rocks off the side... what to do?? what to do..

As I hear the last pleas of the people moments before deciding my own fate I wake up in a load of sweat and fear. Thru the window can be seen the sulpher springs truckstop where drivers are filing into the restruant for breakfast on the faint dawn of a sunrise.

I suppose you know the story of sulphur springs... as I said if you see Sandstone get ready for the springs because it will get you someday.

[arbfbe]

Overpaid delivery drivers? By definition, if they were overpaid then there would be a drive surplus. Since there is such a shortage they are obviously under paid for the work and working conditions.

[Overmod]

Shades of the Wreck of the old 97:

I got to get past Atlanta as soon as I can tonight
I got to try to dodge the scales and stay out of Smokey's sight
But there's one big thing standin' like a nightmare in my way
I got to top Monteagle Mountain a little bit later today

Goin' down Monteagle Mountain on I-24
It's hell for a trucker when the devil's at your door
He'll tempt you and tell you come on let her roll
Cause the mountain wants your rig and trucker I want your soul

When I started down Monteagle the brakes just wouldn't hold
I knew I was in trouble and 'bout to lose control
The runaway ramp was waitin' I saw the warnin' sign
I said Lord help me make it have mercy on this soul of mine

Well I ploughed into that runaway ramp and I could feel that bigh truck groan
My life flashed right before my eyes and for a minute I thought I was gone
But when the smoke cleared I thanked God that I was still alive
Cause when there's a runaway on Monteagle some truckers don't survive

(Johnny Cash!)

Still. I have to think that PA route 115 going down into Wilkes-Barre (below the Turnpike extension exit) is one of the nastiest pieces of road in the East...

[edbenton]

High Iron I have to agree on monteagle that is the meanest SOB east of the Mississippi river. But nastiest one I ever ran has to be east on I-70 out of the IKE tunnel very long grade not steep but if you dont watch it it WILL BITE YOU IN THE *** . I had to come down it one time grossed out with good old sweet corn thank god for top ice on it kept the brakes cool truck I was in was a reginal truck and was not supposed to get west of Kanasas City. I had fun that run but at least when I got to the yard my regular tractor was fixed. My fini***rainee dropped the tranny out of it. I still don't know how he did it it was a Super 10 no going back thru the pattern.

[passengerfan]

Probably would never have happened in the west as most of the states have sanders out when the road starts to get slick.
Northern Ontario used salt when I drove don't know if they still do or not but the province of Ontario owned several large salt mines.
Salt works well down to about fifteen but doesn't do much for the enviroment. or wildlife I understand it damages even the hoofs of deer.
As the state of Nebraska redid sections of I-80 they would not use sand on the areas of new concrete for two years and put signs up warning drivers to that effect where the new concrete was laid. This apparently was done to assure the curing process.
In almost thirty years of driving big rigs I never found chains to be much help on ice and very early in my driving career made the decision when the roads were icy their was nothing in that trailer that was worth my life or anyone else's so I parked and found a motel until the conditions changed. In turn I was never late with a delivery because I always allowed myself extra time in the winter months. I never had a dispatcher get on my case for operating that way when I was an owner operator or when I drove for someone else. When the road was like a washboard from drivers with chains it was no time to be hauling glass showcases blanket wrapped. It was better to park which i did get a motel and wait it out. I don't remember it ever being more than twelve hours until the road was clear enough to travel. And the plows and sanders had worked their magic in that time frame. It would not have done any good to deliver a load of broken glass to a and damaged cabinets to a new store that was opening and would have to wait another six to eight weeks for showcases.
Advise I have for young drivers starting out can be summed up in one word Patience!

[Anonymous]

passengerfan, You just learned a secret in trucking.

Companies fire on sight for any number of rules if they are broken. So there is a little bit of "Juggling" so to speak to make the incident acceptable to the company.

If they could get them chains on there before a company official arrives then that driver might have a chance still.

I am going to tell you a story here. The point of the story is when to require chains.

Coming out of Knoxville several years ago into a light winter storm going west on I-40, there was a few inches of snow on the grass but none on the road. The higher we got into the plateau it turned to hard packed snow and eventually to a little ice as the humidty levels got wet.

I was the lead truck and we come around upgrade to a 40 degree bend that also increased in grade. 5 inches of packed snow turned to a patch of ice halfway thru the turn. The Rig stumbled and went into a tractor skid towards a jackknife while being pulled by gravity towards the median divider.

A authoritive yank on the steering wheel broke the skid and happened early enough before a fatal jack knife angle was reached.

Number two had the exact same behavior in my rear view mirror.... in the mean time....

Numbers 3 thru 8 all saw the first two of us slide and knew that curve is going to be a problem.

Number 3 slid and went off the road trying to stay out of the dreaded jackknife. Number 4 was a flat bed the last I saw of him was his trailer dragging the whole unit backwards into the divider and down into the ground as the driver used the last of his interlocked traction to keep the whole rig straight.

When it was over the interstate was blocked at that point. The drivers were NOT happy. No blame anywhere, just a icy patch on a compound curve.

This being in tennessee they really dont require chains like the western states do.

But if this happened in a western state, I believe the chain law would be placed into effect when the first semi (Me) started to spin out. That means the tires have reached thier limits of traction. From that point on all should have chain.

I hold that as long as you can walk on it, you can drive on it as ground pressure is very similar. But... if big trucks are looking for a place to chain up and or wait out the remainder of the storm... dont you be going out there in your little 4x4 or car.

Many a time I see doubles turned completely around in storms near chicago. Usually they would be chaining at that point because it is the only way to get traction.

Many a time I come across 7 mountains near state college without chain and see many drivers who wind up into the shoulder or barriers because they were in a hurry.

When your interlock is activated and you are plowing 2 feet of dry snow in 3rd at 8 mph... that is NOT the time to be concerned about arrival time or speed.

All this talk of mountain driving in winter should help you keep in mind that there are alot of drivers and very good trucks out there doing a dangerous job. To me mountain driving holds no fear as I go up or down them the exact same way every time. What I do fear is the man killing cold that reaches close to -90 (Including wind chill) some nights in the far northern states.

Eisenhower tunner is a hoot on I-70. But try Tuscacora or Allegheny in a roaring storm on the PA Turnpike sometime. I think the Alley is the one that has 7 miles of 5% eastbound and additional grades westbound combined with super elevation and wind chutes created by the mountains around you.

But Mount Eagle is the one that will get ya east of the mississippi.

[greyhounds]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

So, when is enough enough! I'm a LTL driver - got good medical, retirement...

Jim

When an individual decides that he/she has enough, that's when it's enough.

You can't decide what's enough for me, nor can I decide what's enough for you. It's a concept called "freedom" and/or "liberty".

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

So, when is enough enough! I'm a LTL driver - got good medical, retirement...

Jim

I'm ever so glad you are proud of being an overpaid delivery man. Not what I'd want for my son.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

So, when is enough enough! I'm a LTL driver - got good medical, retirement...

Jim

Enough of you was enough when you made your first post. GET LOST.

LC

[passengerfan]

Having myself been a driver for many years when each winter rolls around I sympathize with all the drivers running between Reno and Sacramento who have to chain up so many nights to get across. This winter has been particularly difficult do to the amount of snow that has fallen in the high Sierra's.
Remember one instance while travelining westbound on I-70 from Denver as I exited Eisenhower tunnel about halfway down the grade was an overturned tractor and set of doubles in the median. There were about four or five other rigs stopped and the drivers were clambering up the sides of the overturned trailers and all were putting chains on the two trailers and the tractor. About a month later when I returned to denver i remembered seeing the overturned trailers and the chains being installed. I asked what good would it do to put chains on an overturned tractor and set of doubles. I found out that the chain controls had been in effect when he started his discent and if the company finds out he did not have them on he gets suspended for thirty days but if the chains are on then nothing happens to the driver by the company they just mark it up as an accident. Apparently the Colorado troopers who know most of these company drivers would keep mum about wheteher the driver had chains on or not. I really thought it was funny that morning seeing everyone scrambling around on the overturned trailers putting on the chains.
Often thought when I was driving that California required chaining up many times when it wasn't really necessary.
Good thing trains aren't required to chain up imagine chaining up a 100 car freight to get over Donner. Ta Ta for now.

[Anonymous]

So, when is enough enough! I'm a LTL driver - got good medical, retirement...

Jim

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I dont see any value in the Van or reefer B trains except in ternimal to ternimal operation.

80% of grocery warehouses and industry docks will NEVER accomodate these things.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

There are quite a lot of b trains combinations hauling wood chips in Washington these days. The biggest advantage I see with this setup is the ease of backing them up. It's nearly impossible to do that with a converter dolly in between (although I have seen it done for short distances).

Chad,

I haven't seen the b-train combo used to haul wood chips yet, but I know it's possible. I live in an area of North Central Idaho where chip trucks by the hundreds are plying U.S. 95 down to the Potlatch pulp mill in Lewiston Idaho. I've seen a few drawbar pulled doubles hauling chips, but most are single 53' and 57' trailers. Maybe one reason they aren't using b-trains is that the unloading lifts may not be able to fit a 75' combo at once, and if the front trailer of a wood chip consist is dumped singly, there would have to be something over the 5th wheel to keep chips from plugging it up as they slide out.

I'm still waiting for someone to invent the b-train dry van combo, using an accordian-style connector between the boxes to make one basic trailer space. You can see such accordian-style connections used on some transit buses, so using them in tight cornering shouldn't be a problem. A dry van interior space of 68' in length and 5700 cubic feet, able to be backed to a dock and loaded at one time, could be a valuable time and effort saver.

I'm less convinced of translating the b-train design into current bi-modal technology. The need to use the tongue and pin connector between the trailers for rail transit conflicts with the need to keep space above the 5th wheel free for the second trailer while in highway mode.

[Anonymous]

Dave,

If you want to read the funny papers, you can't pass up on Transport Topics. Now this is a trade publication, and many articles really need to address the advertisers and sales, I understand that. But unlike trade publications of the past there is no editorial high ground here, its all sell-sell-sell.

From what I've seen, you got a good grip on the industry, HighIron2003ar is also very honest about the Truck_Load position of the industry.

You guys need to get them fellows at TT aligned with the real world!


Jim

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

There are quite a lot of b trains combinations hauling wood chips in Washington these days. The biggest advantage I see with this setup is the ease of backing them up. It's nearly impossible to do that with a converter dolly in between (although I have seen it done for short distances).

Chad,

An additional advantage is there is one less veichle to register and pay taxes on, which in some states can be a big deal. Also the chain laws between a standard set of doubles with con gear and b trains might make a significat difference durring winter.

Depending on the equipment and famility with such, I can back a semi with dolly just about anywhere...But to back that semi with dolly-and trailer, NO from here...But, I've seen a handful of drivers back a rear box to a dock door located between spotted trailers.

The UPS driver handling the unsorted south pull out of MSC at Fernley, NV does it daily. A fellow that I worked with at Thrifty Drug durring the 1980s and now with Central can do it on comand, either over a dirt lot or paved lot.

Jim

[chad thomas]

There are quite a lot of b trains combinations hauling wood chips in Washington these days. The biggest advantage I see with this setup is the ease of backing them up. It's nearly impossible to do that with a converter dolly in between (although I have seen it done for short distances).