Truck Driver Shortage

[passengerfan]

Funniest incident I remember was my second year as an O/O I hired a driver to run double with me for the busy summer months. He worked in the warehouse and every couple of years he got the itch to run the road again. Pete was a lot of fun to run double with. We were westbound on I-80 one saturday morning running downhill toward Laramie from Cheyenne. Pete was in the sleeper and I was behind the wheel driving at the speed limit when I came to the first overpass and see two kids on top waving at the trucks I waved and just as I started under the overpass they either threw or kicked a bunch of rocks off.
The rocks took the right side windshield out and for probably the only time I can remember Pete had the sleeper curtains pulled or otherwise would have got a faceful of Glass. I was carrying a light load so slammed on the brakes and headed for the shoulder. Pete was out of the sleeper and I was running back up the shoulder toward the overpass when Pete decided to run diagonally across the field to catch the kids at the bottom of the Overpass. The kids at first started to run to the right then remembered there bikes were the other way so changed direction. About that time I yelled at a driver on the overpass to stop the boys. I looked for Pete running across the field just in time to see him vanish like the earth opened up and swallowed him.
The driver of the pickup on the overpass happened to be an off duty sheriff's deputy who stopped the boys and called the Larimie police on his police radio in his truck.
I turned my attention to finding Pete. Ibegan searching the area where he disappeared and sure enouch their was some broken wood and Pette down this dark hole yelling like a madman. The hole it turned out was a onetime outhouse and Pete was absolutely covered in you know what. The Fire department soon arrrived after the police who had the boys and there bikes in custody. The fireman through a rope to pete with the admonisment not to get it dirty. He tied it around his waist and the police and four firemen pulled him out of the once board covered outhouse remains.
I have never in my life seen anyone so covered in excrement as Pete was. The temperature was about sixty so he wasn't in any danger of freezing. The Police gave him a ride to town as there was no way I was letting him in the truck till he took a shower or two. The police gave him a blanket and took him to the jail where he took a shower and threw his clothes and the blanket away. I arrived in time for him to get dressed in a clean set of clothes that I got from the truck for him.
Everyone in the station was crying from laughing so hard and the two boys were scared. They were six and eight year old brothers sons of a local preacher. The police found a glass dealer who opened up on Saturday who just happened to have that particular piece of glass in stock I figure them being sons of a preacher was the only reason that dealer had that piece of glass in stock.
I'll bet the preacher got the price of that piesce of glass back in the next days sermon. For about the next month I sure had alot of fun relating the story to everyone at home and any truck stop we were stopped at. When Pete went back into the warehouse that fall the young guys would walk by for a few weeks and hold their noses, as they had all heard the story of what had happened to the Lead Warehouseman. I knew Pete for about another ten years and not once during that time did he ever get itchy feet to go on the road again. I kidded him that if I ever came into a little money and had the time I was going to have a sign made and placed next to Pete's hole simply saying "Watch Your Step" and sign it Pete. Everytime I went through Larimie for years after I always thought of Pete and that hole.

[Anonymous]

Trainees HAW HAW HAW.

Trainees are fun but you gotta train em. I had one turn up one day shaking with excitement as it was his first "real" delivery. We dead head 100 miles to get the load with him hanging over the driving wheel googled eyed and panting with the joy of driving a "Real" truck that actually ran well instead of the dirty and dusty school junkers he had. (Dont slobber all over my coffee mug!)

[edbenton]

High Iron have you ever heard of 2 drivers named Calafornia Shaker and Plum Crazy. I have met Plum Crazy in Oregan at the Burns Bros at exit 28 in Troutdale OR. He was headed back to AL the next day I did not have a load yet. I was talking to him and a IWX trainer trainee combo came in and the trainee was talking down about Cat engines and Peterbilts. Crazy looked him in the eye and told him watch your mouth before someone puts you in your place. The trainer saw who he was talking to and told him to shut his mouth. The trainee goes why should I no one can pass us. Plum Crazy looked him in the eye and them got a ticket out of his pocket from 1979 showing he was running 125 at the time. Then proceeded to tell the trainee I Still have the same truck so don't tell me I can't pass you BOY.

[jeaton]

I'll grant 4 hours and change, but to AVERAGE 100 seems a little over the top-so to speak. That suggests cruising at 105-110 to make up for the time our two when some four wheeler was hanging in the left lane. Unless, of course, good use was made of the median strip.

Speaking of speeding-this is an all car story-from back when one could cruise I-65 between Gary and Louisville at 10-15 over without slowing a lot for traffic. One day I am north of Lafayette and a 300-Z with Florida plates blows by me like it's home by sundown. A few miles down the road I go by him while he is having a chat with a state trooper. We go through the same drill between Lafayette and Indianapolis. I think at that point the lesson is learned, but nooo. In the middle of Indianapolis, here he comes again. I past him and the state just south of Indy. After that stop, I don't see him again, but I suppose he was asked to hang around for a while.

Jay

[Anonymous]

Crazy? He he.

I have met some drivers who have nerves that dont work and no way of feeling any kind of emotion. Some of these boys.. whew.. they can drive. Just aint make trucks fast enough for them.

*Imitates forrest gump.."That's all I have to say about that"

Why?

I dont want to tell stories of two lane backroads at 80+ in areas marked 35. I was pretty heavy on the hammer back then, but these fellas.. they make me feel like a little boy wanting to play in the big leagues.

I hope they are still alive today. They are the ones who you hear of driving backwards down mt eagle with a bad steer pump and fading brakes.

Walk into any truckstop, the speed kings are the ones gulping coffee and vibrating in their booths craning necks this way and that while muttering about slow service.

he he.

[greyhounds]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

This has been an entertaining thread...but 4 hours from Streator to Omaha is hard to believe.

ed

I was going to say. I make Streator to Omaha (via Ottawa and I-80) at least 400 miles.

Jay

Oh, I pretty much believe it - give or take a few ticks of the clock.

Reading this thread has convinced me that SOME truck drivers are freaking crazy. I believe the guy was running 100 mph down I-80. With his son in the tractor. Calling over the CB radio for other truckers to get out of his way.

Roll on Big Mama.

[jeaton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

This has been an entertaining thread...but 4 hours from Streator to Omaha is hard to believe.

ed

I was going to say. I make Streator to Omaha (via Ottawa and I-80) at least 400 miles.

Jay

[passengerfan]

Fastest truck I ever owned did 68mph unless I kicked it out of gear and had atailwind on a 5% grade downhill . Then it could get real scary.
All kidding aside never had a need to go any faster than that and glad I never bought a trauck that would run anyfaster than that.
My proudest achievement was running a 320 Cummins for 641,000 miles and never had a wrench on the engine except to change oil. It was starting to burn a little oil so I traded it in. In the years I owned that truck a International Cab Over I never had a major problem with it. I learned very early as an O/O that if you look after the truck it will look after you. Regular service and preventive maintenance will go a long way in keeping it on the road and dependable. And that is how you make maney as an O/O or even as a company driver assigned a regular unit. I never worked for any company that paid me for downtime so never had any downtime that could be laid at my doorstep. By the same token I never went to work for a company after I quit as an O/O that supplied me with a tractor that was junk. If they operated good trucks and you could tell by the way they looked when they went down the road. Or if you were in a truckstop and saw the driver wiping down the chrome wheels etc. while waiting for his next load you pretty well knew he worked for a good company.
Drivers if you are thinking of changing companies after getting some miles under your belt look at rigs running down the highway and talk to other drivers it doesn't take long to find out the companies that care about their drivers and those that don't. It might take awhile to get on with a good company but keeping your driving record clean sure helps.

[MP173]

This has been an entertaining thread...but 4 hours from Streator to Omaha is hard to believe.

ed

[edbenton]

High Iron my father drove in the good ole days also. The hammer lane used to be called the Monfort lane since Monfort had some of the fastest rigs out there. My dad was driving for a small company in IL at the time hsi truck was a Freightliner cabover 1693 Cat mated to a 4-4 tranny and 3 speed rears. I know this i true since I went with him on this trip so I could get some time wth dad. We were westbound on I-80 in Iowa headed for Omaha he got on the radio and told 2 Monforts to clear the left lane cause he had to go they said " there is not a truck out there that can pass us." My dad floored that old Cat and let her scream we went from Streator IL to Omaha in 4 hrs total time and were reloaded and on our way back in 5.

For those who don't know about truck engines. The Caterpiller 1693 was a six clyinder turbocharged engine that could put out unlimted horsepower for an unlimted time. I actually got to drive one and that thing would pull like you would not belive. My dads bosses son tried to drive that same truck and broke the driveshaft by dumping the clutch and flooring it in 1st gear.

[Anonymous]

Granted, those polish rigs must have a hell of a ratio in the last 5 gears.

And a hell of a dyno to withstand that kind of energy. I have ridden rigs maxed out on the dyno and the roaring, bucking and shaking requires you to be secured to the seat or you will be thrown about.

To you saftey belt people I recall the dyno man had a remote control set in his hands controlling the dyno.

100 mph in any vehicle presents three problems.

1- Human reaction time actually is too slow to be useful. (Racing in NASCAR etc requires relative speeds between vehicles to be close to 0 allowing manuvering.

2- The mass of the total gross weight of the truck demands it to carry it straight ahead; introduce any kind of curve from the plane of straight path will induce rolling your rig. THAT is not the way you want to die.

**In a severe roll over, the cab will turn over itself many times as it chops and breaks any people inside bit by bit over several seconds. Injuries are quite mortal and the affected will live long enough to regret the speed.

3- Tires. They can handle the speed for a while. Eventually heat builds up that cannot be dissapated. Heat destroys tires. The number two problem with tires is objects. Any kind of object will interfere with the physical integrety of a tire that is being made to carry thousands of pounds at speeds (RPM's) 30-50% beyond safe design limits.

And finally the brakes. They are capable of stopping you one time from such high speeds. Be prepared to fight resulting fires.

[rvos1979]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

The bulk of trucks are governed today.

Some run max 55 (UGH), others 65 or so a few will break 70 as a sort of a "Benefit" to those who have performed very well in service.

One company I was with advertised the speed governed at 65 and GPS in real time revealed that they actually governed at 63 as a sort of a secret.

When I went to tech school in IL I was told this story by one of my instructors.

When this instructor worked in a shop, he got to set up trucks for delivery. This involved running the trucks on the dyno to check operation and speed settings. This dyno had a maximum speed of 100MPH.

One day, he was checking out trucks that were going to a Poli***rucking outfit somewhere, these were set up with 18-speed trannies and something like 3.23:1 rear gear ratios.

He told us that when he maxed out the dyno, he had five gears to go before he hit top gear in the transmission.

I don't know about y'all, but over 100MPH in a semi seems pretty hairy to me.

Randy

[Anonymous]

The bulk of trucks are governed today.

Some run max 55 (UGH), others 65 or so a few will break 70 as a sort of a "Benefit" to those who have performed very well in service.

One company I was with advertised the speed governed at 65 and GPS in real time revealed that they actually governed at 63 as a sort of a secret.

You can open a Cat 3046 wide up and burn about 20 gallons an hour. You can do it going straight up hill until you get to the top or you can fly at 120 in Lordsburg NM. Your choice.

But with the computers placed onto trucks and monitored by satellite, it is nigh impossible for a trucker to break his company's software-imposed speed limit.

Split speed limits make the problem even worse stuffing traffic chock full as faster trucks try to pass the slower ones *Swift.. cough cough...

The speeds I wrote of reaches back to the day before Satellite monitoring and software managed engines. I speak of engines that were high on horsepower and tourque with the express purpose of getting that load across mountains in a timely manner or.... zipping along the flats.

In the day getting that load moved fast was all that mattered. Fuel was "Cheap" compared to the profits to be made if you could execute 3 deliverys in a week instead of just two.

An example.

One company who I will not name to protect them had R Model Macks. They were extremely fast. The only monitoring was the old speed clocks that recieved circular peices of paper every morning. At the end of the day they were turned in. The problem was most of the devices had a ... extra part that limited thier effectiveness.. literally.

Police officers were not permitted to view these speed cards as they were strictly company property. No matter what the offence may be.

Way back in the day there was a Cement plant near the Pentagon that had 5 silos ready for 5 bulk tank trucks. 6 would be dispatched there as a initial run.

To the driver being able to cross the legion bridge on the Md Va line in the far left lane at 90+ with the first 4 trucks behind you while the 5th and last lags behind. Horsepower was king. The last one to arrive at this plant got to sit for a unproductive hour and half.

Each load pays about $65 dollars. The first 5 unloads within 2 hours and by the end of the day the fastest of us would have delivered perhaps 6 loads. The last and the slowest might see 4-5 loads a day.

At the end of the week out of the top 5 drivers to that one plant alone the paycheck would reflect the extra load per day... close to 400 dollars gross extra. If you were assigned to this one plant it literally paid to be very fast.

Of course the company earned the revenue off the extra loads. The fuel is cheap. These R models will do 5 loads on one small tank of fuel. For a extra load it was a matter of 20 minutes grabbing a second full load that afternoon. (Making it possible to get even more loads in the next day without having to fuel)

Those who did not stop ran out of fuel.. those are the ones that dont stay with this one company too long. You especially DONT run out of fuel while blowing concrete powder up to the silo 100 feet above.

In time Law Enforcement, New Laws banning trucks from the left two lanes in D.C. beltway, increased traffic, stricter monitoring of speed rules within the company and assorted selective removal of the worst offenders to keep the others in line eventually solved the issue of extremly fast trucks.

The commuters that went to work in DC were very fast and unforgiving in thier BMW's but they get kind of nervous when a Mack R model bores down on thier rear bumber with obviously greater power to the wheels than they are willing to go at 80+ mph. In the far left lane to boot.

In time they see us coming they automatically moved over to the right.

As I said, those times were Happy times. 4 figure paychecks with the prospect of a good year were literally possible with the extra speed and power.

The cost?

I think we lost three loads, 5 people and perhaps several hundred thousand dollars worth of revenue in one year. That is unacceptable in today's climate of saftey first and so called staying on the line.

I think back to that one year. We could easily have supported that one ready mix plant every day that year with just 5 trucks and 5 loads each per day legally in every way.

But.. too many people were driven by greed for the profits, good wages and other reasons for any sort of controls to work in the day.

Technology as shown in computers, satellite monitoring and cell phone, highway cameras against aggressive driving etc etc etc etc.... has put a stop to the happy time.

For that I thank god because we are saving lives and revenue by slowing down. This I speak as a voice of someone who lived thru the early 20's with reckless speed and disregard for anything but horsepower and tire traction.

Slow down, ride easy and be safe. You will not be as tired and still make close to the same wages that week.

[Anonymous]

After reading some of these 18-wheeler stories I think some drivers need to be reminded that a tractor's fuel consumption goes up by 1% for every mile per hour over 60. In other words, a truck running at 100 mph uses 40% more fuel for the same distance as a truck running at 60 mph. Now I wonder where the extra money comes from? Especially for O/Os.

[route_rock]

Giggles as I read through the postings. This will tell the age of some of the guys here after reading Wolf Creek I couldnt get this out of my head" Wolf Creek pass way up on the great divide trucking on down to the other side!" C. W. Mcall getting to the bottom with a 14 foot high trailer and chickens [:D] Ohh man some of hte stories here ( sandstone is one) gives me shivers. Saluda almost forgot about it! Rain on Saluda and NC drivers acting like they know it all. Shee***ime for bed ya'all keep the bugs off ya glass the bears off ya @$$ this here is Casey Jones and I am back quiet.(RB) 10 points for what the (RB) is [:D]

[Anonymous]

I recall some of the eastern drivers who hit the rockies for the first time.

They return to the east and sit on the coffee line with arms **This wide and **That high telling stories of grades so steep that the 5th weel would throw the pin *(and trailer) completely off.

I think they do this to scare the tenderfeet.

I was a company driver for many years and a trainer in later times. Finally back to company driver with dreams of O/O glory and gingerbread and all of that stuff. I had a good run but got out of it.

I think part of the problem was "You want this load WHERE?! and HOW SOON?!" it was not fun for me in the later years. Even as a team 24/7 with the wife we were just barely able to keep up with dispatch bailing out all of those poor tired single drivers who just aint what they needed to make that load on time.

I recall talk of being sent into central america or up in the far north on the ice lakes... I think I rather stay jest right here at home in the good old 48 =)

Im back out!

[Anonymous]

Started out with Swift as apprentice driver, after 9 mos bought own tractor, leased on to various companies (incl SP trucking subsidiary) for 5 yrs. Finally got my own authority and bought a step deck, a 53 van and a 53 reefer all used. Got to know shippers and good brokers now I'm out only about 200 days per yr and still clear $60k. Have seen nearly every rail line in the country-wonderful way to pursue hobby, do everything myself, no boss, not much hassle, learned all the places to stay away from. Can't imagine doing anything else. But to do it this way you've got to have a good cash stake to start out with.

[passengerfan]

Arbfbe
Absolutely correct Lookout pass it was . Guess memory plays tricks on me sometimes.
Mullan Pass is where the old NP line runs guess I get confused.
I have traveled many roads in the east over thirty years of driving and have seen the look on many eastern drivers faces the first time thy encountered the Rockies say on I-70 out of Denver, or better yet the first time they encounter Rogers Pass on TC1. Longest load I ever hauled was from Canadian Forces Base Esquimalt to Candain Forces Bas St. John Newfoundland. had to ride two ferries one from Vancouver Island at Sidney to Tawassen znd the other was from North Sydney Nova Scotia to Port Aux Basque Newfoundland. Literally from one end of the Trans- Canada to the other. When I ran Alcan for six yeras loaded one special load in Houston and delivered it to Anchorage pretty hard to beat that for a North -South distance run.

[ajmiller]

I-78 ends where it connects to I-81 about 20 miles east of Harrisburg. I don't ever travel between Harrisburg and Scranton, so I'm not that familiar with I-81 between I-78 and I-80, but I assume it's probably similar to I-80.

I think that I-78 in Berks county predates much of the interstate system and the road seems a lot older than most interstate highways. I think it was built as an upgrade to US-22 in the 1950's and connected with the Lehigh Valley Thruway in Lehigh and Northampton Counties which was also designated as US-22 and built in the 1950's. Later I-78 was connected to I-81 in Lebanon County, but US-22 still follows its original route in Lebanon and Dauphin Counties.

For a long time, I-78 had a gap between Fogelsville PA and Phillipsburg NJ. Drivers could follow US-22 on the Lehigh Valley Thruway from Fogelsville to Easton PA, but at Easton the expressway ended and US-22 followed ordinary streets through Phillipsburg until the expressway resumed at I-78 in NJ.

I remember that there was a lot of debate as to whether US-22 should be expanded to six lanes and carry I-78 or that a separate highway for I-78 should be built to the south of the Lehigh Valley. Finally in the mid 1980's they built the separate route to the south.

A few years ago they extended PA-33 to connect to I-78 between Bethlehem and Easton. PA-33 is a north-south 4 lane highway that orginally connected I-80 at Stroudsburg PA to US-22 near Bethlehem. It took over ten years from the completion of I-78 to get the route 33 extension started.

[arbfbe]

passengerfan,

Likely you were on Lookout Pass on the MT/ID border. Mullan Pass is near Helena and the highway goes over McDonald Pass anyway. Mullan is dirt road only and closed by drifts at the top during the entire winter, generally reopens in June.

[Anonymous]

South Mountain.. that's it. A small mountain but in bad weather something to think about.

Is that I-78/I-81 STILL in bad shape? UGH! What's going on with you PA folks? I personally witnessed all of the highway between Harrisburg East all the way to Scranton stripped down to bare dirt, repacked and a new interstate built (and relocated in some areas) twice.

That is twice.

Arkansas had bad crumbly concrete. too. We went ahead and stripped down to bare dirt, poured 3 feet of gravel, some concrete in some areas and 2 feet of apshalt on top of that.

Nice smooth ride right now. But 10 years from now I think we will have to rebuild it again.

In history Germany built autobahns that are still in use today on some sections. They know how to build highways. You also dont see Airport runways under repairs either and those airliners are way heavier than we truckers ever will be.

Build em big and strong the first time and have done with it.

I am sorry for a bit of a rant here, but I have seen I think, in the last 16 years sections of our interstate system torn down and rebuilt once or twice. Maybe Im wrong but those schnieder eggs are still in some places 10 years or more.

[ajmiller]

Is that the section of I-78 that also carries PA-309? That goes up and over South Mountain which borders the southern side of Allentown and Bethlehem. It doesn't seem that bad in a car which may be why I didn't think of it.

I know of that gigantic Nestle warehouse. It's in Fogelsville just west of Allentown.

I-78 is kind of hilly, but I think I-80 is more hilly. I-81/78 between Harrisburg and Allentown is not a very nice ride though. The road is a bit old and crumbly. I drove home to my parents that way last weekend and got stuck in traffic where the road is under construction near the Berks/Lehigh county border. When I get to Allentown, I usually take US-22 instead of I-78 since my parents house is north of the Allentown/Bethlehem city area.

By the way, I mentioned US-322 through Lewistown Narrows in a previous post on this thread, and it's still under construction. Long traffic delay there, and it looks like it will take years for them to expand the highway to four lanes. Now, I did travel through there late on a Friday afternoon, so that may have contributed to the traffic density, but I think I will avoid that route and stick to I-80.

[Anonymous]

I-78 .. there is a small hill that is rather long in grade from the east up and over before you hit the big one near the Jersey line.

Keep in mind that the interstate is somewhat south of town. If memory serves there is a Nestle's warehouse on the flat section just before that grade.

[ajmiller]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

In a winter storm one afternoon to the East of Allentown, I found myself confronted by the sight of the 3 mile long westbound downgrade shining with ice that was so.... slippery smooth all the way down. This was with a empty flatbed and a Mack CH model rig daycab. I made it down but thank god I was a young man as the stress level was very high that day. I think I took 10 years off my life on that hill that icy day.

Which highway was that east of Allentown? I'm trying to picture where this hill is, but nothing sticks out in my memory.

[passengerfan]

Leaving Spokane late one afternoon at the start of a snow storm I was tired after loading all day so thought I would drive for awhile. Heading east I pulled to the top of Mullan Pass and took the offramp which is right on the Idaho/Montana state line. The after turning onto the overpass I backed up to the be clear of the on ramps as this was dead end road that went maybe 100 feet. I parked crawled into the sleeper and before I knew it was fast asleep.
When I awoke it was daylight and the truck was practically buried in snow. Aftter answering natures call I found the snow was about twelve to fourteen inches deep and crunchy. I crawled up in the cab and filled out my comic book then started down the eastbound on ramp. The first thing I noticed is I was the only truck on the highway in fact I was the only traffic on the highway. As I approached Superior about an hour later I saw the Montana State troopers had a eastbound roadblock. When the spotted me they waded across the highway and flagged me down. The first thing he asked me was where was I coming from as the highway had been closed for the last eight hours. When I told him I was on the top of Mullan he said he was surprised as usually the Idaho troopers or Montana troopers run any drivers away from where I was parked when the highway was closed or going to be closed. His next question was did I see anyone else on my way to Superior I said no he said have a nice day and I was on my way east once again headed for Minneapolis.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

In Upstate NY we don't need no stinking chains!!

LC

Perhaps because Pennsy used up all the Hills that God had in supply when he created this world he he.

=)

In a winter storm one afternoon to the East of Allentown, I found myself confronted by the sight of the 3 mile long westbound downgrade shining with ice that was so.... slippery smooth all the way down. This was with a empty flatbed and a Mack CH model rig daycab. I made it down but thank god I was a young man as the stress level was very high that day. I think I took 10 years off my life on that hill that icy day.

As bad as that one was I was to see even worse ice in the deep south near the end of the 90's. The kind that renders a foot of beach sand irrevelant. (They used to sand bridges to give you a chance to cross down there in the south.)

The previous night I slept at a reciever on top of a hill. The wind would blow very hard and you can feel and see the entire rig shift a inch or so to the side with every gust. I figured if I woke up the next morning in the ditch that is ok because I arrived at the customer on time with very valuable freight that they cannot work without.

Be safe and good luck! See you all on the flip side.

[Anonymous]

In Upstate NY we don't need no stinking chains!!

LC

[Jack_S]

QUOTE: [i]
Often thought when I was driving that California required chaining up many times when it wasn't really necessary.

If you've ever seen how native SoCal drivers of cars drive in rain (they speed up for flooded sections for one), you'd understand why the CHP gets paranoid about weather conditions that would go unnoticed in the Northeast.

When I lived in NY I was an avid skier and I never even had snow tires on my 2 VWs or my two SAABs. My sister lives in northern Vermont and I don't think she has ever used chains. Of course she drives a Jeep Liberty which sure helps.

Jack

[edbenton]

Another grade that will make the butthole pucker is Parlay in Utah headed for SLC on I-80. I almost lost one in winter headed west on the 6% strech and got lucky. My engine failed and i lost the Jakes. Another one in UT is echo canyon narrow and watch for the g****** rocks falling.