Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:14 AM Well I to am more of a speed guy. Buuuuuuut when I was at Cajon it was really a sight to see 3 locos pulling a 2 mile train uphill all strung out in front of you. Now that I said that I think once you have seen & heard it the power of speed is still better then the power to drag a big consist up hill. If you ask me watching the UPRR bullet train flying by at a real hi rate of speed was the best vs watching a train struggling uphill[:D][:p][:o)] Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM Sounds quite pretty but I have not yet done any Colorado rail fanning. Buuuuuuuut if you get to Cajon go west on 138 past the underpass for track 3 then jump the curb make a hard right go over track 3 down to track 2 & you can get super head on shots of trains coming round a bend struggling up the hill. [:o)][:I] Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:51 AM Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:21 AM Yes Sullivans is like a semi horseshoe so it can bend around the mountain. Since Cajon is your home turf try Caliente between Mojave & Bakersfield. There is a ground level horseshoe curve their either before they start upwards or are on the downhill exiting. The best is that their is you can get a end to end pix of the shoe because their is a overlook. The scenery their is also super. There is also a pssing siding so you can stand right next to a EBer waiting for the WBer to come by & take super head on shots as the WBer moves from the main to the passing siding.[:(][:D][:)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:36 AM Please locate this site for me as I will be in Utah end May early June. Also are you familiar with SLC & know where the merge point is between the old WPRR & the UPRR line from LAX? Thanks [:p][:o)][:I] Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:52 AM Yes that is exactly what I meant. coming from Hesperia a UPRR train can transfer @ Siverwood to the Palmdale track because the gradage is less then return to the BNSF track @ Keenbrook. The UPRR can naturally do it in the other direction as well coming from San B transfer from the BNSF @ Keenbrook use there own track up the grade as it is less then track #2 then return to the BNSF @ Silverwood to come down the hill via Hesperia/Victorville/Barstow & then again exit the BNSF @ Daggett. The BNSF is not permitted to utlize the Palmdale track only the UPRR can use it. [:o)][:I][:p][:D] I will be in your area late Aug this year[8D][:D][:p][8)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:51 AM Thank U I am going to try to fit it in. Dies you book give you like streets that will get you to that merge point? Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 AM Sent U a Email[8D] Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM Sounds quite pretty but I have not yet done any Colorado rail fanning. Buuuuuuuut if you get to Cajon go west on 138 past the underpass for track 3 then jump the curb make a hard right go over track 3 down to track 2 & you can get super head on shots of trains coming round a bend struggling up the hill. [:o)][:I] Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:51 AM Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:21 AM Yes Sullivans is like a semi horseshoe so it can bend around the mountain. Since Cajon is your home turf try Caliente between Mojave & Bakersfield. There is a ground level horseshoe curve their either before they start upwards or are on the downhill exiting. The best is that their is you can get a end to end pix of the shoe because their is a overlook. The scenery their is also super. There is also a pssing siding so you can stand right next to a EBer waiting for the WBer to come by & take super head on shots as the WBer moves from the main to the passing siding.[:(][:D][:)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:36 AM Please locate this site for me as I will be in Utah end May early June. Also are you familiar with SLC & know where the merge point is between the old WPRR & the UPRR line from LAX? Thanks [:p][:o)][:I] Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:52 AM Yes that is exactly what I meant. coming from Hesperia a UPRR train can transfer @ Siverwood to the Palmdale track because the gradage is less then return to the BNSF track @ Keenbrook. The UPRR can naturally do it in the other direction as well coming from San B transfer from the BNSF @ Keenbrook use there own track up the grade as it is less then track #2 then return to the BNSF @ Silverwood to come down the hill via Hesperia/Victorville/Barstow & then again exit the BNSF @ Daggett. The BNSF is not permitted to utlize the Palmdale track only the UPRR can use it. [:o)][:I][:p][:D] I will be in your area late Aug this year[8D][:D][:p][8)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:51 AM Thank U I am going to try to fit it in. Dies you book give you like streets that will get you to that merge point? Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 AM Sent U a Email[8D] Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:51 AM Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:21 AM Yes Sullivans is like a semi horseshoe so it can bend around the mountain. Since Cajon is your home turf try Caliente between Mojave & Bakersfield. There is a ground level horseshoe curve their either before they start upwards or are on the downhill exiting. The best is that their is you can get a end to end pix of the shoe because their is a overlook. The scenery their is also super. There is also a pssing siding so you can stand right next to a EBer waiting for the WBer to come by & take super head on shots as the WBer moves from the main to the passing siding.[:(][:D][:)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:36 AM Please locate this site for me as I will be in Utah end May early June. Also are you familiar with SLC & know where the merge point is between the old WPRR & the UPRR line from LAX? Thanks [:p][:o)][:I] Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:52 AM Yes that is exactly what I meant. coming from Hesperia a UPRR train can transfer @ Siverwood to the Palmdale track because the gradage is less then return to the BNSF track @ Keenbrook. The UPRR can naturally do it in the other direction as well coming from San B transfer from the BNSF @ Keenbrook use there own track up the grade as it is less then track #2 then return to the BNSF @ Silverwood to come down the hill via Hesperia/Victorville/Barstow & then again exit the BNSF @ Daggett. The BNSF is not permitted to utlize the Palmdale track only the UPRR can use it. [:o)][:I][:p][:D] I will be in your area late Aug this year[8D][:D][:p][8)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:51 AM Thank U I am going to try to fit it in. Dies you book give you like streets that will get you to that merge point? Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 AM Sent U a Email[8D] Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Quentin
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:21 AM Yes Sullivans is like a semi horseshoe so it can bend around the mountain. Since Cajon is your home turf try Caliente between Mojave & Bakersfield. There is a ground level horseshoe curve their either before they start upwards or are on the downhill exiting. The best is that their is you can get a end to end pix of the shoe because their is a overlook. The scenery their is also super. There is also a pssing siding so you can stand right next to a EBer waiting for the WBer to come by & take super head on shots as the WBer moves from the main to the passing siding.[:(][:D][:)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:36 AM Please locate this site for me as I will be in Utah end May early June. Also are you familiar with SLC & know where the merge point is between the old WPRR & the UPRR line from LAX? Thanks [:p][:o)][:I] Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:52 AM Yes that is exactly what I meant. coming from Hesperia a UPRR train can transfer @ Siverwood to the Palmdale track because the gradage is less then return to the BNSF track @ Keenbrook. The UPRR can naturally do it in the other direction as well coming from San B transfer from the BNSF @ Keenbrook use there own track up the grade as it is less then track #2 then return to the BNSF @ Silverwood to come down the hill via Hesperia/Victorville/Barstow & then again exit the BNSF @ Daggett. The BNSF is not permitted to utlize the Palmdale track only the UPRR can use it. [:o)][:I][:p][:D] I will be in your area late Aug this year[8D][:D][:p][8)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:51 AM Thank U I am going to try to fit it in. Dies you book give you like streets that will get you to that merge point? Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 AM Sent U a Email[8D] Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:21 AM Yes Sullivans is like a semi horseshoe so it can bend around the mountain. Since Cajon is your home turf try Caliente between Mojave & Bakersfield. There is a ground level horseshoe curve their either before they start upwards or are on the downhill exiting. The best is that their is you can get a end to end pix of the shoe because their is a overlook. The scenery their is also super. There is also a pssing siding so you can stand right next to a EBer waiting for the WBer to come by & take super head on shots as the WBer moves from the main to the passing siding.[:(][:D][:)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:36 AM Please locate this site for me as I will be in Utah end May early June. Also are you familiar with SLC & know where the merge point is between the old WPRR & the UPRR line from LAX? Thanks [:p][:o)][:I] Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:52 AM Yes that is exactly what I meant. coming from Hesperia a UPRR train can transfer @ Siverwood to the Palmdale track because the gradage is less then return to the BNSF track @ Keenbrook. The UPRR can naturally do it in the other direction as well coming from San B transfer from the BNSF @ Keenbrook use there own track up the grade as it is less then track #2 then return to the BNSF @ Silverwood to come down the hill via Hesperia/Victorville/Barstow & then again exit the BNSF @ Daggett. The BNSF is not permitted to utlize the Palmdale track only the UPRR can use it. [:o)][:I][:p][:D] I will be in your area late Aug this year[8D][:D][:p][8)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:51 AM Thank U I am going to try to fit it in. Dies you book give you like streets that will get you to that merge point? Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 AM Sent U a Email[8D] Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is.
Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:36 AM Please locate this site for me as I will be in Utah end May early June. Also are you familiar with SLC & know where the merge point is between the old WPRR & the UPRR line from LAX? Thanks [:p][:o)][:I] Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:52 AM Yes that is exactly what I meant. coming from Hesperia a UPRR train can transfer @ Siverwood to the Palmdale track because the gradage is less then return to the BNSF track @ Keenbrook. The UPRR can naturally do it in the other direction as well coming from San B transfer from the BNSF @ Keenbrook use there own track up the grade as it is less then track #2 then return to the BNSF @ Silverwood to come down the hill via Hesperia/Victorville/Barstow & then again exit the BNSF @ Daggett. The BNSF is not permitted to utlize the Palmdale track only the UPRR can use it. [:o)][:I][:p][:D] I will be in your area late Aug this year[8D][:D][:p][8)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:51 AM Thank U I am going to try to fit it in. Dies you book give you like streets that will get you to that merge point? Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 AM Sent U a Email[8D] Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:52 AM Yes that is exactly what I meant. coming from Hesperia a UPRR train can transfer @ Siverwood to the Palmdale track because the gradage is less then return to the BNSF track @ Keenbrook. The UPRR can naturally do it in the other direction as well coming from San B transfer from the BNSF @ Keenbrook use there own track up the grade as it is less then track #2 then return to the BNSF @ Silverwood to come down the hill via Hesperia/Victorville/Barstow & then again exit the BNSF @ Daggett. The BNSF is not permitted to utlize the Palmdale track only the UPRR can use it. [:o)][:I][:p][:D] I will be in your area late Aug this year[8D][:D][:p][8)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:51 AM Thank U I am going to try to fit it in. Dies you book give you like streets that will get you to that merge point? Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 AM Sent U a Email[8D] Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I]
Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:51 AM Thank U I am going to try to fit it in. Dies you book give you like streets that will get you to that merge point? Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 AM Sent U a Email[8D] Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd
Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 AM Sent U a Email[8D] Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 11:08 AM Sent U a Email[8D] Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 2:50 PM Soldier Summit was always a favorite of mine too, expecially when you ride the CZ and see it in daylight because at the top you see to more railroads (or is it three) below you, parallel to you, and eventually you find you ride them all, as the line zigzags down on the western side. I also like the way the Summit lets you know it is a summit, since the transition of upgrade to downgrade is visible and has, for railroad, a very sharp vertical curve. This is something lacking on the Big Ten Curves grade out of Denver, where the summit is actually in Moffat Tunnel itself and isn't very noticeable. I also did ride Tennessee Pass once or twice and both times stopped at the Royal George (fan trips). And I have ridden Cajon and Donner and Sherman. Horseshoe was long another favorite and I liked it when the K4 was there. Maybe soon there will be an active K4 running on the Horseshoe. The GP-9 doesn't bother me too much since I had a tiny bit to do with that locomotive's design, working at EMD the summer of 1952. Not much remarked is the B&A in the Birksheres. Is the summit at Sate Line tunnel? I forget the actual summit location, but the countryside is very pretty. Sure the 2-8-4's have gone and the E-units and the RDC's, but it is still a fine place. The Autumn at the height of the leaves changing is the best time. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:10 PM ....Of course that K4 that was on the Curve has done some live running in that area since it has been removed from that location and put back in working order about a decade or so ago....Hasn't run much at all these last recent years. Believe it did require some more work to be done but I don't kow it's status presently. Quentin Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 3:22 PM The K4 is due back in Altoona after much rebuilding this summer or fall, whatver is stated in the Altoona museum add in May 2005 TRAINS recreational railroading supplement. Apparently to be in working order. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:00 PM My favorite was the south side of Lofty Tunnel in PA. Serious upgrade from Tamaqua to the south. Between the Reading trains on the grade you could watch the LV above you at Delano, and another LV line below you at Quakake, and the CNJ way below at Tammanend. Alas, except for an occasional freight on the Reading & Northern on the valley floor it is all gone. Reply Edit Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:48 PM ....Stood in the Altoona Museum rail yard some years ago and photographed 1361 K4 but never did see or hear that one run....Rode behind others though many miles. Quentin Reply athelney Member sinceMay 2003 From: Abbotsford BC Canada 300 posts Posted by athelney on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:30 PM No one has mentioned Marias Pass in Montana -- or Rogers Pass up here in BC -- both pretty spectacular -- Was able to ride the 6- SD40 pusher set up Rogers Pass before they built the new Macdonald tunnel- way back in the 80's. The westbound CPR coal train was 2 SD40-2's up front , 3 SD40-2s mid train & the 6 set -30 cars from the rear . Thats great mountain railroading - shame it had to finish on a regular basis. 2860 Restoration Crew Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:44 PM For mookie, please add Crawford Hill (BNSF/BN/CB&Q) in the NW Nebraska Panhandle which now has coal trains out the gazoo, but in 1975 was up for abandonment. Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply techguy57 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: NW Chicago 591 posts Posted by techguy57 on Friday, April 1, 2005 3:53 PM Mountains=A+[:D] (as in letter grade, get it?) Oh, c'mon guys it is April Fool's Day after all![:o)] Just another one of the fools, Mike techguy "Beware the lollipop of mediocrity. Lick it once and you suck forever." - Anonymous Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Friday, April 1, 2005 8:03 PM Stevens Pass in Washington State is no slouch and I also like Stampede. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 9:55 PM Its not exactly a mountain grade but I would have to say my favorite is Logan Hill on the Orin Sub in Wyoming. As for favorite mountain grade I would have to say Kicking Horse Pass. Reply Edit rvos1979 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Burlington, WI 1,418 posts Posted by rvos1979 on Friday, April 1, 2005 10:07 PM Lessee, Rogers and Donner passes, which I'd like to visit someday. As for what we consider hills in Wisconsin, I've seen one and been up another. Byron hill south of Fond Du Lac is a nice place to sit and watch WC/CN battle it out. I've also run trains up Dane Hill, I've been pulled down to 7MPH with UP ballast trains crawling up that little devil. Both these hills are about 1 percent, and about the same 5-6 miles in length. Randy Randy Vos "Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings "May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 1, 2005 11:15 PM Modelcar - Alleghany was three tracks up the west side in the direction of loads (the middle track was the eastbound freight running track) and two tracks up the east side. West side 1%, east side 1.34%. Kevarc - Iaeger to Bluefield was longer and steeper than Alleghany but didn't have the tonnage, and, therefore, the number of movements. The east loads that came into Bluefield from the Clinch Valley District didn't come through Iaeger, but did go up Alleghany. In midweek, Bluefield would call a 120-130 car EB coal train hourly. We're talking just before diesels, now . . . OId Timer Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.