Why are GE locomotives better than EMD?

[Anonymous]

I agree with you 100%.I think its interesting how many people out there get thier railroad experiance from reading magazines.And then seem to think they know more about it than the people who do it for a living.

[Anonymous]

well it seems that you are the only one on this board who has failed to make a point.

[Anonymous]

Larry,Exactly the conclusion I came to,althought it took me a while. This guy isn't even worth the time of day. Keith

[BRAKIE]

Management?? I forgive you! a no brain, management type and engineer wanna be.

I doubt that you are even out of high school or college.So why am I wasting my time?
You gave yourself away my friend.

[Anonymous]

Four stroke brain,I am not and have never pretended to be anything but a locomotive engineer.If you knew anything about locomotive engineers you'd know that the job description doesn't incude being a computer software expert.In fact tampering or altering the computers on board is a big no no.If you want to discuss computer sofeware go to another site.One thing I do know is that when increasing throttle positions the amp load is supose to increase not decrease like a great many of the dsah-9's I've been getting lately.Also the amp load is suppose to maintain a constant level unless your speed(MPH) increases or a wheel slip is detected,not fluctuate wildly up and down like most GE's do.So if your idea of fun is to question what I do forget it, find someone else.As far as I'm concerned your insulting arrogant know it all character,or I should say lack of, doesn't warrent any further acknowledgment from me.GOODBYE

[Anonymous]

I think mr.know it all has his mind made up has ingested to many of those pcb's that GE is notorious for dumping in the enviroment.

[BRAKIE]

Nothing to do with GEs just the past history around 1960.I doubt if some are old enough to remember or been in the hobby long enough to know the past history.To top that off I ain't telling.I know some really have no clue what the Feds are very capable of doing for big business,of course you won't see that on CNN..

[wabash1]

dont confuse "mr. know it all" with the facts when his simple ge mind is made up...

[BRAKIE]

So much you know about railroad history.Tsk tsk.

[Anonymous]

What power does a US government agency have to prevent a Canadian Company from shutting down? Are you proposing to use my US tax dollars to pay EMDs Canadian payroll? Should that happen just watch the firestorm it will generate on the news and in the political rhetoric.

As for competition there are pleanty of other builders who build locomotives for commuter service or are remanufacturers of locomotives. Either group would have very little trouble making the step to large scale production. Very successful new locomotives have been manufactured using the Catapiller engines. The railroads who tested them rated them as much better than anything EMD or GE offered. They just did not want a third builder to have to stock parts for. Without EMD this issue goes away.

And we have not considered any of the non North American builders who are just beginning to make sales here. They have a lot of experience selling in some very competitive and highly regulated markets.

[BRAKIE]

The best way to get the true story is to ask the engineers and train crews that work with them.These are the guys/gals that know the truth and will tell you the real facts.As far as EMD shutting down,I don't think the railraods or the Feds would allow that to happen.The railroads needs 2 major locomotive builders to keep the prices in check.

[Anonymous]

The facts are that GE's don't perform in the REAL world of RRing.Take all your statistics and ratings and believe what you want,but we people who have to work and ride in them know what their really like.

[Anonymous]

We're all trembling in our boots!!

[Anonymous]

Hello,don't let this guy get to you, he takes enjoyment in putting people down who don't agree with him and finds it hard to accept the reality that GE's SUCK!!! Also finds it hard to accept what we engineers already know about GE's. Keith

[Anonymous]

Why do you find it so hard to believe real engineers read and respond to this forum? Can't real railroaders be fans also? Oh by the way had another interesting experience with a two yr old dash-9. 70% load potential for a high and 5% for a low,great performance for a 2yr old GE!

[Anonymous]

all of us "fake " posters as you put are people who have to work with this stuff

[Anonymous]

a conductor i was working with is now on disability due to a GE ceiling panel falling

[Jackflash]

Hello, I'm new here, but not new to locomotives
as a engineer who runs both GE and EMD I am
always a happy camper when I have a EMD on the
head end, for one thing the ride is so much better
The GE's just dont seem to be built to last,
they leak oil all over the walkways, the interior
cab roofing insulation comes loose and falls to
the floor, with all the excessive vibration its
a wonder any equipment on one can hold up.
I dont hate running GE's, I just like the EMDs
more, I've been an engineer since the early 1980's

[Anonymous]

My last three GM automobiles each lasted 150,000 miles plus, and they performed remarkedly well the whole time. The only reason I traded them in (for another GM product) was because I WANTED something new. I will agree with everyone that the late 70s and entire 80s were the pits. If EMD is reflective at all with the rest of GM, then the 70 series at least should be an improvement over what they produced with the 50 series. By the way, I haven't seen any GE autos, so I don't know how they would stack up against GM autos.

[favuprailroadfan]

Let me ask you this.

COULD A GE PASS EMISSIONS TESTS? Not NO, but HEl* NO. I guess we are all full of opinions but I guess the only one that counts is our own. UP does have the option to buy them 70's. All I am saying is, everybody is entitled to their own opinion and I am just stating mine.

Laters, Dru

[Anonymous]

lol, ok

[Anonymous]

hey jackass,if your refering to me ,i am a real engineer,and have been for 7 years.and its idiots like you that we laugh at

[Anonymous]

I used to love the GE's back in the 70's. I thought they would blow up every time I saw one. Made railfanning interesting. EMD's were booring. They never sounded nor looked like anything but a smooth operation. I liked GE cause I always root for the underdog which they were. Fast forward to 1998 when I got interested in railroads again. What's this I hear? EMD number 2. GE number ONE??? You could have pushed me over with a feather. Something happened! EMD 50 series and DASH-8 GE's. Sort of says it all. Now I see.

[Anonymous]

well i am an NS engineer and i like the emds better.as far as comparing the 2.many people are match up brand new GE dash 9s to 20 year old EMDs.what kind of shape will the GEs be in when they are 20 years old.you need to also keep in mind that GEs are cheaper than EMDs thats why companys are buying them, to save money.GEs are also slow loading and not as responsive as EMDs

[Anonymous]

Dru, If EMD is not a problem then why is UP leasing the SD70s rather than buying them? UP buys locomotives it intends to keep. And why did EMD have to offer lease rates to UP that are more in line with used locomotives than for new? That doesn't sound to me like UP has a good impression of the quality of EMD.

EMD had no orders on the books when they started negotiations with UP. It appears that they were willing to practically "give away the farm" to land an order. Sure doesn't sound like the customers believe that EMD has a quality product.

[wabash1]

i agree, i also own no ge appliances either they are just as bad as thier engines.

[Anonymous]

You're behind the times. GM's vehicles shot way up in build quality last year , right behind Toyota & Honda. There are still a lot of beater cavaliers from the bad old 80's still running with 140k-200k on the clock so long life shouldn't be a big problem. GM still does a lot of inovating, it just may not of the kind you notice. Kind of like thinking something can't be sophisticated because it's simple.
As for EMD it still has valuble name recognition and goodwill, much like Harley in the early 80's, and could do well in a LBO by the right management group. There is a new business model for a lean organization. You do the engineering, marketing, support, and final assembly. The assembly of most components is subcontracted out. Costs are lower and there is much more flexability than trying to build everything yourself. Samual Adams beer is just one example of this.If I had lived my life differently I might try to do the deal myself.

[Anonymous]

You must work for GE. Or own their stock.

[Anonymous]

Here we go with the insults again! Is that all you know how to do when one disagrees with you? I'm entitled to my opinions on RR locomotive operations and how they perform and until you sit your butt in the engineers seat your opions mean nothing to me!

[Anonymous]

Let's try a BIG PICTURE look at EMD vs GE.
In the 80's every major GM division [5 auto, 2 truck, Detroit Deisel, EMD, etc.] was in trouble the same way. They use to dominate their market with products that were the best enginered, most reliable, and cheapest to produce. By the late 70's early 80's they had hung on to good designs for too long. These old designs could not keep up with new demands/standards, or the toolig was wearing out, or the updating work was inferior, or someone had come out with a better product[think Honda/Toyota]. When new designs were finally brought out they were troubled, often being worse than what they were to replace [ Chevy Beretta, the 50 line]. Worse was a corporate attitude that there was no proublem,"we know what to do, we just need to do it better", or " we have a preceived qaulity problem" { better call that last one a paraphrase rather than a quote].
Eventually the board of directors woke up and did their job, fireing the existing top corporate management and bringing in a much more capable team. This was a hugh story at the time and brought out a lot of business humor about CEO's all across America suddenly in fear of their boards waking up. GM sreanlined, downsized, reengineered and is now making good to great product. I thought th 70 line could be included in this and would hate to see EMD go just because a fellow bean counter desided the market was to small to for the capital needed to make a good loco great again. Maybe if they branded a 70mac as the next Cadilac SUV the numbers could work.