Amtrak

[Anonymous]

President Bush, in his $ 2.75 trillion budget proposal has sounded the death knell for Amtrak with the elimination of the $ 1.2 billion annual subsidy. This is long overdue as Amtrak has not been viable for the last several years, I'm not sure that the wole endeavour wasn't still born at conception.

[oltmannd]

Amtrak has never been viable, but that's never really been the issue. Doubtful Bush's budget attempt to kill Amtrak will be sucessful. Nixon and Reagan tried to "zero out" Amtrak many times in the past and never succeeded. Suspect Amtrak will get almost what they need to struggle through another year.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by letzerich

President Bush, in his $ 2.75 trillion budget proposal has sounded the death knell for Amtrak with the elimination of the $ 1.2 billion annual subsidy. This is long overdue as Amtrak has not been viable for the last several years, I'm not sure that the wole endeavour wasn't still born at conception.

Not viable to WHOM?

So Amtrak share of intercity travel is 1% comapred to like 85% highways and 12% air and 2% bus.

Teachers represent about 2% of U.S. society with farmers a little less.

They're insignificant?

Tell that to 25 million people that rode the system last year, despite Amtrak being attacked left and right.

Given Washington's three decades of stiffing Amtrak when it comes to funding, actually decreasing rail funding in gigantic amounts while increasing highway and air funding (those aren't subsidized, right!), it's a miracle Amtrak has the market share it has now.

Record ridership. More than anytime in the past three decades.

[Anonymous]

Oltmannd made a succinct and accurate observation. Viability isn't possible without funding, and funding doesn't happen without political committment, and political committment doesn't happen without popular support. Amtrak is a fine example of purgatory. Not a pleasant place to be.


OS

[Anonymous]

O.S.YOU DONT SEEM TO REALIZE THAT PEOPLE ARE SICK TO DEATH OF ALL THOSE OUTIN THE US WHO ARGUE A POINT WITHOUT LETTING ALL THE CORRECT FACTS ,OR ARE OF THE OPINION THAT WHAT IS GOOD FOR THEM IS GOOD FOR ALL .JUST BECAUSETHEY DONT USE AMTRAK NO ONE SHOULD BE ALLOWED .YOU KNOW WHAT I DONT WANT MY TAX MONEY USED FOR THE HIGHWAYSOR AIRWAYS NOW WHAT IS TOUR REPLY SIR

[morseman]

To all those who suggest privatizing Amtrak I suggest they look at
all other countries and their passenger rail systems
HIGH speed trains, Frequent service, Up to date equipment,
dedicated tracks, maintenance facilities, I'm sure the list could go
on and on. All other countries realize the importance of
passenger rail and appropriate funding for same.
I say all other countries, perhaps this is a blanket statement
but what other largely populated country undercuts and
attempts to disolve its passenger trains as the U>S>

[Anonymous]

I DON T THINK MR BUSH REMEMBERS 9/11 WHEN ALL AIRCRAFT WERE GROUNDED AND PEOPLE COULD NOT GET HOME . NO WE DONT NEED AMTRAK OR THE THOUSANDS OF JOBS THAT IT HAS .CONSERVATIVES ONLY THINK ABOUT WAR

[billlbeutler]

From what I hear, the fright railroads would like to see Amtrak gone from there roads anyway. With fright traffic at a high these trains are in the way arn't they?
Don't get me wrong I like having the passenger trains and think that more would be better. It's a nice way to travel I took my family to Illinois form Kansas.
Also why are the cities restoring the old passenger depots if there is no intrest in rail travel?Take K.C.Mo Union Station.
Saturday 02/05/05 Amtrak #4 was held up in Topeka Ks. for at least 6 hours, some drunk tried to out run the Police and hit a big power pole and the wires droped on to the tracks shuting down the Topeka sub.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TRAINMANTOM

I DON T THINK MR BUSH REMEMBERS 9/11 WHEN ALL AIRCRAFT WERE GROUNDED AND PEOPLE COULD NOT GET HOME . NO WE DONT NEED AMTRAK OR THE THOUSANDS OF JOBS THAT IT HAS .CONSERVATIVES ONLY THINK ABOUT WAR

Yeah that is all that Bu***hinks about. War, at least he does something about suffereing unlike Bill Clinton who let over a 800,000 die in Ruwanda. Just because I am a conservative also doesn't mean I don't support Amtrak. There are a lot of conservatives who do. JFK sure as hell doesn't though. Unless he is using it as a political vice. Please don't use name calling here, as all it does is degenerate the thread.
Brad

[Anonymous]

I DONT USE THE FEDERAL AIRWYS WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM WITH MY TAX MONEY . ANY REPLIES FROM CONSERVATIVES OUT THERE

[Anonymous]

JUST CHECKED MY PREVIOUS REPLIES COULD NOT FIND ANY NAME CALLING AS I SAID DON T LET FACTS GET IN THE WAY

[Anonymous]

goduckies who is JFK AND WHERE WAS HE MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TRAINMANTOM

goduckies who is JFK AND WHERE WAS HE MENTIONED IN THIS THREAD

John F Kerry, since you called our conservatives, I called out him, since he is the Dem's hero.
Brad

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TRAINMANTOM

I DONT USE THE FEDERAL AIRWYS WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM WITH MY TAX MONEY . ANY REPLIES FROM CONSERVATIVES OUT THERE

Well we should support both, and since a lot of commerce goes through those planes, our economy would come to a screaching halt if we didn't.
Brad

[daveklepper]

Kerry did have his chance to show support for passenger rail at the time of the funding of the Boston Big Dig. If he had been a sincere proponant of balanced transportation, the critical missing North Station South Station link would now be in place.

[MP57313]

Whoa...tempers rising on this thread. Expect some push back from senators (both [D] and [R]) on this matter; that always happened in the past whenever they tried to zero out the Amtrak operating budget.

People are more complex than the stereotypes and loudmouths you hear on the radio or see on TV talk shows. Most conservatives I know are not opposed to Amtrak; some even ride it. There are bigger issues out there...

[siberianmo]

Hello all,

Once again, Amtrak is on the block. You know what? It has been that way pretty much from the inception of this so called National Passenger Railroad Corporation. There has never been a meaningful period of time when Amtrak was not being denied a place at the table. I place the blame squarely on the Congress of this country. Not the Presidents, but the legislators who pander to this or that group in hopes of remaining in office. That is not to say Presidents haven't had their share of the blame - but the Congress has let this idea of a slapped together network fester from thet onset. Just do a bit of research and you will see for yourselves. Who appropriates? Too many of these legislators haven't a clue regarding the subjects they vote on - believe me - the volume they deal with would choke a healthy horse. That's not an excuse for them, simply the truth. In reality, the damned interns are the ones who provide the "input" that either floats or sinks the ship.

We have not had and do not have a national rail transportation plan. There simply is nothing on the table for the U.S. to continue into the 21st century with a high speed rail initiative that will work. Where is the progress with Maglev? How come the high speed rail plans for the midwest are once again mired down. Why? Because of the lobby interests that tie up our tax dollars elsewhere. This is not Democrat vs Republican - so get off the dime with that nonsense. This is just the system as we know it and and have known it all of our adult lives. Money talks and the rest walks, as the paraphrase goes. Amtrak's appeal just hasn't generated the voices, along with the promises of cash (in the form of big donations) to get these legislators off their pontification stands long enough to understand exactly what the ramifications of their actions will be.

My crystal ball isn't worth a hoot, but I picked the Patriots to win and even though I live in the St. Louis area, I suspected the same for the Red Sox. So, I guess I'm on a roll (of sorts) - I don't think Congress will have the nerve to let the passenger rail system die on the vine. They will, as someone else on this thread has indicated, find the money to keep the trains struggling along. That's like putting a band aid on the enormous gash cut into the side of the Titantic. But, you know what, that seems to be the way Congress does business.

It is very easy to vent towards this or that person - whether it be our President or a Senator or a Representative. No individual has the power to klll Amtrak - but collectively, the Congress surely can. The question is, will they?

No one should be the least bit surprised by these turn of events. Surely we haven't forgotten about September 11th, 2001 and the war in Afghanistan. We are also paying through the nose for an Iraqi war that has divided us big time. I'm a 32 year vetern of the armed forces - so don't paint me into a liberal or pacifist corner, cause neither place is for me. However, I know this - we have an infinite amount of things we want to spend money on and a finite amount of ca***o pay for them. Pretty much the way we all should take a look at managing our own affairs. How many times have any of us gone out on a limb for a purchase, thinking that it will ultimately get paid - but fogetting all about the damned interest along the way. We really have huge deficits and they aren't going to simply go away. Pay the man now, or pay much more later.

Okay - enough of that. I am very concerned about the future of passenger rail in our country. I want to see it survive and thrive. I put my money where my mouth is by riding those trains whenever possible. Furthermore I have devoted my time to ensure that those who want the trains to continue running get heard in our state capital through organizational efforts and the like. Any one of us can do the same - just do it. Griping, finger pointing (including my own) and wringing of wrists will not save Amtrak. Perhaps collectively, all of us can.

The bigger question is does the American public really give a damn? No way we can keep those trains rolling based only on sentiment. I know about the "stats," and I also know all about "fun with numbers." So, I'm not impressed by these figures. The trains I ride are NEVER full - okay - NEVER. Now maybe I just pick the wrong dates for my travels, but I'm talking about decades of train riding in the U.S. Not so the case in Canada, where VIA Rail seems to be doing better. However, Ottawa and their version of Congress called a Parliament, is trying their level best to downgrade VIA Rail to obscurity.

Sad day for all who love passenger trains - no matter what your political leanings.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by morseman

To all those who suggest privatizing Amtrak I suggest they look at
all other countries and their passenger rail systems
HIGH speed trains, Frequent service, Up to date equipment,
dedicated tracks, maintenance facilities, I'm sure the list could go
on and on. All other countries realize the importance of
passenger rail and appropriate funding for same.
I say all other countries, perhaps this is a blanket statement
but what other largely populated country undercuts and
attempts to disolve its passenger trains as the U>S>

You must remember though that all those other countries have rail systems that are either government owned and/or open access. They also have tax policies that discourage the use of private vehicles, such as gas taxes that are far above what is needed for transportation infrastructure maintenance. They use most of their gas taxes for their general budgets.

Although taken as a matter of fact, the concept of "no money making passenger trains" has not truly been tested. A private rail passenger operation would have to conform to any other business model, e.g. provide a product or service that people will pay for at a price that exceeds the cost of providing that service. If indeed there are viable rail passenger corridors, ones in which it is more beneficial for the traveller to take a passenger train than it is to either fly or drive, then that rail passenger service should be able to make money. If the costs of maintaining a rail right of way was equalized with the costs of highway and airport maintenance, who's to say a private rail passenger service could not make a go of it?

[MP57313]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain
Global positioning program to allow positive train control throughout the country fully funded.

Is this accurate enough? Years ago I heard this was fine for single track lines, but the GPS was not detailed enough to tell if a train was on the main track or a siding, so its utility was limited for meets (except when there was wide separation between the tracks)

[dldance]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain
"Global positioning program to allow positive train control throughout the country fully funded."
"Is this accurate enough? Years ago I heard this was fine for single track lines, but the GPS was not detailed enough to tell if a train was on the main track or a siding, so its utility was limited for meets (except when there was wide separation between the tracks)"
-----
Clinton ordered the variability insertion in GPS to be deactivated - thus allowing civilian usage to have the same accuracy as military GPS usage. With the use of off-the-shelf differential GPS systems - current commercial accuracy is sufficient for legal land surveys - so the use of GPS in multitrack situations has been vastly improved - but this still would not improve Amtrak.

dd

[Anonymous]

GPS technology is incorporated into Postive Train Control systems. PTC is very, very expensive. There is no economic case for PTC on either a collision-avoidance basis or a capacity-improvement basis. I have no idea what DOT is talking about in this case, but having GPS funded doesn't get you to PTC funded.

OS

[Anonymous]

I think this time Amtrak is going to lose its transcontintentals and some other long distance lines.... Oh, the NEC will survive, possibly with a cash infusion from the states it serves..... and possibly the Auto Train....

However, I still see no vision from Amtrak about its future.... The future of passenger railroads in America is not the status quo of running out of date equipment on out of date tracks.....

Now is the time to move on HSR, and convince the nation it can afford a up to date HSR system from New York to Chicago, and further south on the eastern seaboard, plus a line from Northern California to Southern California..... All of these HSR lines if properly funded and built could turn a profit....something the airlines are failing to do......

[Anonymous]

What happens to GPS during solar flares? We can't wait to see what happens next on the on-going Amtrak question - it's like having a tooth that was never maintained properly. Now, you have a tooth ache. So, do you repair the tooth and keep it, or, just yank it out? I wish somebody would make a real decision so that we can go on with our lives. How much of a deficit did our country have before Bush was elected to his 1st term??

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by amtrak-tom

How much of a deficit did our country have before Bush was elected to his 1st term??

We had a huge deficit during the 1990's, only it was disguised in the form of the technology bubble. What was happening was that the feds were taxing moneys that were all on paper, and once that bubble burst "poof!" we we're suddenly in deficit mode. It is too bad that during the 1990's when all this was going on, the Clinton Administration was quietly eroding the viability of our natural resource and heavy manufacturing sectors via obstinate environmental laws and an artificially high dollar that killed our export sector. Once the tech bubble burst and we reverted to dependence on our old economy stalwarts, we found that they had been severely emasculated, on the verge of disappearing altogether.

It is a minor miracle that the Bush Administration was able to revive these industries, at least to the point of giving them a fighting chance, and doing so in the face of corporate scandals and 9-11. Instead of berating Bush, you should give him the kudos he deserves for saving us from Clinton's Economic Folly.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by donclark

I think this time Amtrak is going to lose its transcontintentals and some other long distance lines.... Oh, the NEC will survive, possibly with a cash infusion from the states it serves..... and possibly the Auto Train....

However, I still see no vision from Amtrak about its future.... The future of passenger railroads in America is not the status quo of running out of date equipment on out of date tracks.....

Now is the time to move on HSR, and convince the nation it can afford a up to date HSR system from New York to Chicago, and further south on the eastern seaboard, plus a line from Northern California to Southern California..... All of these HSR lines if properly funded and built could turn a profit....something the airlines are failing to do......

An HSR infrastructure will need some sort of user fee to pay the majority of it's costs, same as the highway trust fund and the waterways trust fund. Currently, we have an 18 cents per gallon tax on diesel fuel for the highway trust fund, and a 20 cents per gallon tax on fuel for the barge lines (albeit only on a few of the waterway corridors).

How about this: Change the Highway Trust Fund and the waterway trust fund into the Infrastructure Trust Fund, and charge 20 or 30 cents per gallon on all diesel fuel used for transportation whether it be trucks, barge lines, or railroads? The funds from this trust fund woult then be distributed among highway, waterway, and rail infrastructure projects (both high speed corridors and open access freight corridors).

[gfjwilmde]

I'D LIKE TO THANK ALL OF THOSE SUPPORTERS OF THIS NEO-FACIST ANTI-CHRIST, WHO WILL EVENTUALLY PUT ME OUT OF WORK!!! YEP, ONCE AGAIN, THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HAS TURNED ITS BACK ON THE VERY FORM OF TRANSPORTATION THAT HAS RESPONDED TO, "AND", HAS MET THE NEEDS OF OUR NATION IN TIMES OF CRISIS!! I REMEMBER 9/11...W E L L!! I REMEMBER MY EX WIFE TELLING ME THAT I PROBABLY WON'T BE GOING TO WORK THAT AFTERNOON. YET, AS THE AFTERNOON WORE ON, AND THE PENTAGON WAS STILL BURNING, GUESS WHERE I WAS??? A T W O R K . . . A T T H E H I G H S P E E D R A I L S H O P I N W A S H I N G T O N, D C . . . W I T H "N O" P O L I C E P R O T E C T I O N . . . M A K I N G S U R E E V E R Y H I G H S P E E D T R A I N S E T W A S O P P E R A T I O N A L ! ! ! AND HOW DOES OUR GOVERNMENT(WHOM WERE IN HIDING), AND THE PUBLIC THANK US??? THEY SPIT, #*@+. AND ^$%= IN OUR FACES, THEN TELL US YOU ARE NOT WORTHY OF A COUNTRY AS GREAT AS OURS!!! IT'S THE SAME WAY THIS COUNTRY DID THE RAILROADS AFTER WW2, WHEN TAX MONEY THAT SHOULD HAVE WENT TO THE REBUILDING OF THESE RAILROADS' INFASTRUCTURE, SUDDENLY GOT DIVERTED TO BUILDING HIGHWAYS AND AIRPORTS, ALL THE WHILE, THE RAILROADS WERE BEING TAXED TO THE HILT!! YOU CONSERVATIVE NEO-FACIST MAKE ME SICK!!! SO MUCH FOR THE 'LAND OF THE FREE'!! HYPOCRITS, YOU ALL ARE!!!!!!!!



GLENN
A R E A L R A I L R O A D E R....A NOT SO PROUD AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Save our trains now. Amtrak is important and must be saved for the future. I am reminded by a sign I once saw with a little kid holding it asking "Dad what is a passenger train?" Is this what we are leaving. A world without trains.

[Anonymous]

gj, calm down man, There are people on both sides of the fences on this, and who knows, you might actually get more funding out of this is Mr. Gunn does it right. I think that every will work out in the end, even Mineta said that this wasn't final, just a shot across the bow to wake you guys up.
Brad

[MP57313]

Whoa Glenn! Don't call me a neo-fascist!
I've had to justify and re-justify my job over the years, no matter how important it is. It's just the way this country works. Except for some top echelon management folks there are no guarantees in life.
Even if the funding comes through for this year, who is to say the slash-and-burn approach won't get cranked up again next year?
And if the worst happens....people will have to sort it all out and determine what they will do next.
I understand you being PO'd about the situation but don't insult us!!
MP

[Anonymous]

Glenn,

In case you hadn't noticed, the Class I's are in a hiring spree. This may be the best time over for you to put in your resume at a private firm if you are out of a job at Amtrak.