https://aviationweek.com/defense-space/space/northrop-grumman-study-darpa-concept-lunar-railroad
https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grumman-to-develop-concept-for-lunar-railroad
Northrop Grumman’s study will:
The whole idea is sheer lunacy.
Mining the Moon may solve USA and Canadian shortages of rare-earth metals required for many communications and transpotation applications.
With hardly any gravity, what would that do for tractive effort?
adkrr64 The whole idea is sheer lunacy.
daveklepper Mining the Moon may solve USA and Canadian shortages of rare-earth metals required for many communications and transpotation applications.
Don't know what the job would pay, but you'd make out like a bandit on the deadhead.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
CSSHEGEWISCH daveklepper Mining the Moon may solve USA and Canadian shortages of rare-earth metals required for many communications and transpotation applications. But the costs would be astronomical.
It would cost billions AND billions of dollars.
Seems likke the liky extension to what we now enjoy in our 'National CapitaL'...a plot to just dig us deeper and deeper into another hole.
BackshopWith hardly any gravity, what would that do for tractive effort?
The braking inertia of course is higher, so expect magnetic track brakes. No air for cheap braking anyway.
And if you need better physical TE, there's always inspiration from our fellow toy-train enthusiasts... Magne-Traction!
Overmod Backshop With hardly any gravity, what would that do for tractive effort? The braking inertia of course is higher, so expect magnetic track brakes. No air for cheap braking anyway. And if you need better physical TE, there's always inspiration from our fellow toy-train enthusiasts... Magne-Traction!
Backshop
Will they be using the same consultants and contractors as California's High Speed Rail Project? And what about the NIMSSs (not in my solar system)?
Will all signal aspects be lunar?
Didn't Model Railroader have an article about this some years back?
Cost would be no object, as long as there's enough ink for the presses...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
NKP guyWill they be using the same consultants and contractors as California's High Speed Rail Project?
blue streak 1Gravity or lack of gravity means cannot use earth type RRs. Any change in direction either horizontal or verticle train goes off track.
... So, locos and cars must have some kind of positive contact up and down and sideways with rails at all times to prevent lift off of rails.
But the rails and cross ties then would also need to be anchored for every crosstie & rail to solid moon.
No cooling available from air causes major engineering work for propulsion, friction, and braking.
For tractive effort and braking best use a rack RR.
For rails cannot use CWR as kinks and pull aparts due to extreme temperature changes with alternate 14 days of sun and then 14 days dark. Miter joints every 20 feet?
blue streak 1 For rails cannot use CWR as kinks and pull aparts due to extreme temperature changes with alternate 14 days of sun and then 14 days dark. Miter joints every 20 feet?
I remember thinking about what it would take to build a railroad on the moon and one of the first challenges was how to deal with thermal expansion/contraction. It then occurred to me that rocks would have similar problems - repeated thermal cycles would break the surface into little pieces. My next thought was: that's why the lunar regolith is a coarse powder.
I like OM's idea of "snowshed", especially if there is a heap of lunar regolith on top. The heap of regolith would accomplish two things. First is the thermal mass would even out the temperature underneath. Second is that a meter or two of regolith would be a passable radiation shield providing some protection against the normal background radiation levels of space as well as solar flares. The earth's atmosphere is roughly equivalent to 15 feet of concrete with respect to radiation shielding.
Keep in mind that the Northrop Grumman study for DARPA is part of the LunA-10 framework of development, which is being worked out by these guys:
https://lsic.jhuapl.edu/
with DARPA saying they are inspired by
https://www.pwc.com.au/industry/space-industry/lunar-market-assessment-2021.pdf
I forget how old I was when I came across Neil Ruzic's 'The Case for Going to the Moon', but I became convinced then, and still am, that sensible Lunar development ought to be undertaken... as long as it doesn't devolve into the usual kinds of finance oligarchy. I note that the current thinking does call for 'surface construction' of a network of lines, rather than in deep tunnels or even with the overburden Erik mentions against flare or CME events. Be interesting to see what detail design and options they come up with.
I confess I'll be eagerly watching for Don Oltmann's 'railroading in 2060' blog post about a typical day's work up there.
The problem with the idea of exploiting lunar resources is the assumption that any single entity or country "owns" the resources. There is no law for the Moon, no agreed upon international treaties, etc. Wild Wild West. No guarantee that if you build it someone won't take it or tear it up, etc.
- Ed Kyle
I own one square foot of the moon. It was purchased for me by my daughter for my 60th birthday.
I'd appreciate it if everyone would respect my wishes and stay off my property.
York1 John
tree68 Didn't Model Railroader have an article about this some years back? Cost would be no object, as long as there's enough ink for the presses...
I remember that article. I looked up the issue date, April 1978. I was pretty sure it was an April issue, but I was thinking 1976.
April being the key indicator.
Starting from scratch on the moon, it could provide a market for autonomous rail cars.
Jeff
Ed KyleThere is no law for the Moon, no agreed upon international treaties, etc.
I suspect there's an element of "whodathunkit" involved there.
Should someone attempt to lay claim to it, I'm not sure anyone else would respect that claim. Something like Antarctica would probably be the end result.
That MR article was, indeed, the April issue (as I recalled when I posted that), lending a shade of "April Fools" to it. As we can see, however, the possibility is increasingly real.
I wonder if the technology used on roller coasters might not be useful.
York1I own one square foot of the moon. It was purchased for me by my daughter for my 60th birthday. I'd appreciate it if everyone would respect my wishes and stay off my property.
Overmod York1 I own one square foot of the moon. It was purchased for me by my daughter for my 60th birthday. I'd appreciate it if everyone would respect my wishes and stay off my property.
York1 I own one square foot of the moon. It was purchased for me by my daughter for my 60th birthday. I'd appreciate it if everyone would respect my wishes and stay off my property.
York1Actually, I have high hopes my square foot will lie on the route of the moon train, and I can hold out for millions.
Are you calling it "Rock Ridge?"
tree68 York1 Actually, I have high hopes my square foot will lie on the route of the moon train, and I can hold out for millions. Are you calling it "Rock Ridge?"
York1 Actually, I have high hopes my square foot will lie on the route of the moon train, and I can hold out for millions.
I have Hedley Lamarr on my advisory board.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Surprised nobody has mentioned this study so far.
Ed Kyle The problem with the idea of exploiting lunar resources is the assumption that any single entity or country "owns" the resources. There is no law for the Moon, no agreed upon international treaties, etc. Wild Wild West. No guarantee that if you build it someone won't take it or tear it up, etc. - Ed Kyle
Actually there is a treaty regarding the moon. It's covered in a broad treaty for outer space. Those party to the treaty agree that no single country can claim ownership of the moon or other heavenly bodies.
https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/who-owns-moon
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