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Let's police ourselves

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, April 4, 2022 10:32 PM

charlie hebdo
...

MS: Too much concern about someone's feelings getting hurt. I'm tempted to use a term a political group I don't care for. It's too many snowflakes.

Define snowflake!

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, April 4, 2022 10:00 PM

charlie hebdo
I'm tempted to use a term a political group I don't care for. It's too many snowflakes.

Source?

LarryWhistling
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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, April 4, 2022 5:30 PM

CO: I don't have a clue as to how your long analogy applies to these fora.

MS: Too much concern about someone's feelings getting hurt. I'm tempted to use a term a political group I don't care for. It's too many snowflakes.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, April 4, 2022 5:28 PM

charlie hebdo

 

 
Murphy Siding

 

 
charlie hebdo

I look on here on Monday @ 10:35 am and last post on General Forum was 10 hours ago. An example of how boring most threads are.

 

 

 

Pardon me if this sounds cheeky, but if all the threads are boring, why not start one that isn't? It's kind of like the kid that looks in the fridge and says there's nothing good to eat. Why can't he just take it upon himself to cook something good? I guess it's not as easy as it sounds.

 

 

 

 

The very active ones are usually controversial by nature. Topics where all agree don't generate many responses. And then those controversial threads get blocked even when the rules were not broken.

 

 

I don't know what to tell you.

Pooh said "It's a beautiful day outside. We should go do something".
Eeyore said "It'll probably rain".
In the end, the forum is what we make it to be.

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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, April 4, 2022 5:26 PM

Murphy Siding
Why the generic pronouns? I think we'd all agree that 99.9% of us on here are men (or at least identify as men?) can't he just exceed himself? 

I'm always hopeful  that Kathi Kube might one day resume participation?

The point I was hoping to make is, that some members seem to revel pushing the envelope of what is prohibited here, and know full well they are doing so in the process.

While the majority of the community might recognize what is going on (as it happens), they have no desire to have their name in the mix once anticipated moderation begins exacting it's toll. So they shun the thread.

Very few people willing to drink in a burning bar, no matter how thirsty they might be. would be an abstract analogy.

And for anyone so misguided as to stand holding the door open bellittling passers by for their reluctance to enter,  enjoy the "free beer"...and entertain them....well....I think  that is a decision everyone must make for themselves.  I've never felt any implicit "duty" to entertain anyone else here....

PirateLaughPirate

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, April 4, 2022 3:03 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 
charlie hebdo

I look on here on Monday @ 10:35 am and last post on General Forum was 10 hours ago. An example of how boring most threads are.

 

 

 

Pardon me if this sounds cheeky, but if all the threads are boring, why not start one that isn't? It's kind of like the kid that looks in the fridge and says there's nothing good to eat. Why can't he just take it upon himself to cook something good? I guess it's not as easy as it sounds.

 

 

The very active ones are usually controversial by nature. Topics where all agree don't generate many responses. And then those controversial threads get blocked even when the rules were not broken.

 

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, April 4, 2022 2:29 PM

Convicted One

Just my My 2 Cents , but the way I see it,  sometimes there is an intricate balance between content the host doesn't want to see posted here, and what is on people's minds specific to the subject matter.

So, rather than risk the ire, they just keep those thoughts to themselves. 

Sort of a twist on the old saying "If you can't say something nice...etc"

That's where I believe the protracted silences come from.The community sees one member "exceed themself", and rather than get sucked into the vortex with them, they just shun the subject

 

Why the generic pronouns? I think we'd all agree that 99.9% of us on here are men (or at least identify as men?Devil) can't he just exceed himself? Mischief

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, April 4, 2022 2:25 PM

charlie hebdo

I look on here on Monday @ 10:35 am and last post on General Forum was 10 hours ago. An example of how boring most threads are.

 

Pardon me if this sounds cheeky, but if all the threads are boring, why not start one that isn't? It's kind of like the kid that looks in the fridge and says there's nothing good to eat. Why can't he just take it upon himself to cook something good? I guess it's not as easy as it sounds.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Monday, April 4, 2022 1:24 PM
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Posted by tree68 on Monday, April 4, 2022 12:49 PM

charlie hebdo

I look on here on Monday @ 10:35 am and last post on General Forum was 10 hours ago. An example of how boring most threads are.

There's only so much you can discuss on whether the McGinnis scheme was red or orange.

This is a forum about a rather specialized topic - trains.  Only so many people have something to say, or ask, on a given topic  I'm on one forum that would probably go days without a post, if it weren't for folks posting about daily train activity.

The chats on the various train cams run into the same thing.  

Besides that, people have to sleep, and work.

That's just the nature of the beast.

Edit - I just jumped up one level to see all the Trains forums..  The most recent post on the Locomotive forum was yesterday.  Transit was seven hours ago.  Passenger was 4 hours ago.  Steam/Preservation wins this round with the most recent post just an hour ago.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, April 4, 2022 11:49 AM

Just my My 2 Cents , but the way I see it,  sometimes there is an intricate balance between content the host doesn't want to see posted here, and what is on people's minds specific to the subject matter.

So, rather than risk the ire, they just keep those thoughts to themselves. 

Sort of a twist on the old saying "If you can't say something nice...etc"

That's where I believe the protracted silences come from.The community sees one member "exceed themself", and rather than get sucked into the vortex with them, they just shun the subject

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, April 4, 2022 10:36 AM

I look on here on Monday @ 10:35 am and last post on General Forum was 10 hours ago. An example of how boring most threads are.

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Posted by Convicted One on Monday, April 4, 2022 12:15 AM

Why yes, the McGinnis paint scheme on the New Haven railroad always did appear orange to me, despite the insistence of some that the color was red.

I guess that just goes to prove that anyone determined to "see red" is going to find what they are looking for. Human nature, actually.

 

 

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Sunday, April 3, 2022 2:56 PM

I'm just saying these forums are more interesting as market places of ideas and opinions, preferably backed by some sources if stated as facts. But some whine and only want discussions of paint colors or kumbaya celebrations. IMO, the reason many have left and there appear to be fewer responses is that  plus rather heavy-handed moderation that lately doesn't even bother to follow the forum rules, instead called some of us jerks.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, April 3, 2022 10:41 AM

Lithonia Operator

 

 
charlie hebdo

 

 
Lithonia Operator
Buy a punching bag and mount it in your garage; vent your aggression there rather than in this forum.

 

That's pretty a pretty passive aggressive remark. 

As Harry S Truman said, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.". Pretty decent guy who didn't mince words for fear of offending thin-skinned folks.

 

 

 

Well, you more than matched me. Congratulations.

I can stand the heat. I just don't like it.

And I'm done with this thread.

Yes and again you have to ask......whose kitchen is it?    And are you not a guest just like the person asking you to leave if you do not like his behavior?    

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, April 2, 2022 8:55 PM

Perhaps you should look up the meaning passive aggressive before parroting it.

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Saturday, April 2, 2022 8:46 PM

charlie hebdo

 

 
Lithonia Operator
Buy a punching bag and mount it in your garage; vent your aggression there rather than in this forum.

 

That's pretty a pretty passive aggressive remark. 

As Harry S Truman said, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.". Pretty decent guy who didn't mince words for fear of offending thin-skinned folks.

 

Well, you more than matched me. Congratulations.

I can stand the heat. I just don't like it.

And I'm done with this thread.

Still in training.


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Posted by selector on Saturday, April 2, 2022 4:33 PM

Rules to argue by:

a. If you resort to the ad hominem, you're signifying that your outta useful ammo, so you've already lost. A gentleman or lady would know to cease and desist beyond that point;

2. If you must disagree, don't be disagreeable about it; and

3. For the intractable and unconvinced, disengage.  Life's much too short to tilt at windmills.  They may crow that you've gone silent, and indeed you have.  Let them crow.  If you were at all convincing, and used veridical information, the sharper minds looking on will know. That should suffice.

 

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, April 2, 2022 12:28 PM

Flintlock76
"We only have one rule here, that every student be a gentleman." Pretty good words to live by, don't you think?

Good advice but it is also the internet.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Saturday, April 2, 2022 12:19 PM

The ground rules should be spelled out better in the Forum stickies but should be in my personal view:

1. Don't repeatedly challenge people for links to sources or evidence.   Nothing wrong with asking how they formed a conclusion or how they reached an opinion.  Constantly asking for a source in an informal opinion forum is rather disruptive if you ask me.

2. Presume that posted comments are opinions unless someone claims to be an expert (only one poster has done that since I have been a member here and I have to say I severly doubted his expert status based on items he posted, he no longer posts here or was suspended.......which I think the Mods stepped in there because he kept clobbering others over the head with his self proclaimed "expert" status which a real expert would never feel the need to do).    Moral of the story is nobody should claim to be an expert on anything we all should still be learning about life and various aspects of our various crafts.   If someone claims to have some knowledge in an area you should not jump to the larger claim that they are claiming to be an expert.......I think that is obnoxious.

3. Don't try to certify posters as "Expert" or "Non Expert" publicly.   One of the dumber items to do on the Internet.    Nothing wrong with saying "That is not how we did things on the railroad I worked on...."  or "My experience has been that items usually work this way......".     Or even if you have no experience to say "That does not make any sense to me because....... am I missing something?"

4. Don't correct others punctuation, grammer, or spelling in an informal discussion forum repeatedly.    It never is topical and is a disruption to the conversation flow.   Exception being if the persons posts are so atrociously written you cannot understand what is being said.

5.  Just because you do not know a topic well does not mean the person your having a discussion with is "making things up".    Use Google or your personal contacts and make sure you paraphrase what is being stated correctly in your search for the truth.

6. As consumer of information here, it's everyones job to search for the truth by asking questions politely of the poster or using the Internet or other means in an attempt to understand a position.   I think it is very rude to ask someone to link to a source or provide it when a 5 min Google will give you the whole argument in a nutshell and all sides to an argument.    It is much more diplomatic to say you believe in another side to an arguement being presented than to accuse the other person of making something up or not being factual.    Many times there is some truth to two sides of an argument.

7. Please do not parrot an obviously partisan news source.   While there are some here that will accept anything in print others like to have something better researched if your going to provide evidence provide evidence that can be viewed as objective and neutral with no underlying agenda.

8. Don't put words in other peoples mouths or incorrectly repeat what they stated read carefully their comments for comprehension and don't change them in your head to be comments you think they should say so you can argue.   Be honest here in representing what a poster posted.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Saturday, April 2, 2022 12:06 PM

Lithonia Operator
Buy a punching bag and mount it in your garage; vent your aggression there rather than in this forum.

That's pretty a pretty passive aggressive remark. 

As Harry S Truman said, "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.". Pretty decent guy who didn't mince words for fear of offending thin-skinned folks.

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Posted by D.Carleton on Saturday, April 2, 2022 11:32 AM

Backshop
D.Carleton

As Lizzy said: If the boys wanna fight you better let 'em.

I heard she had anorexia.

With decades of hindsight I think now she was a proto-vegan.

Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Friday, April 1, 2022 8:13 PM

Why am I reminded of the expression:

Every body is crazy but me and Thee and sometimes I wonder about Thee.

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, April 1, 2022 7:42 PM

From a post on FB:  "When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice: but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn."  Proverbs.

The problem comes with who decides what's righteous and what's wicked...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Friday, April 1, 2022 7:33 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 
charlie hebdo

Well said. However, I realize this is not academia or a research forum. Nevertheless, I think it is entirely appropriate to ask the poster for a source for his assertion that the locomotive is a dragon: actual published source or just his opinion. Such is not a personal attack and should not be construed as such in the marketplace of ideas.

 

 

 

Again, it's all in how it's presented. "Sources?" usually comes off about as polite as "Oh yeah? Says who?". A more informal approach that would encourage discussion over arguement would be something like "Where are you seeing that? Most articles I've read in Dragon Owner's Digest magazine say that steam engines are really dragons".

      I worked with a guy how had way of suggesting that something was BS: "Well, I don't know if that's necessarily true...". That got the point accross in a nice way without any fightin' words.

 

 

Well said. Yes

Still in training.


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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, April 1, 2022 6:51 PM

May I quote the now much-malinged General Robert E. Lee?

When asked for a rulebook when he was president of Washington College he replied:

"We only have one rule here, that every student be a gentleman."

Pretty good words to live by, don't you think?

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Posted by Lithonia Operator on Friday, April 1, 2022 6:26 PM

charlie hebdo

Have we all become so thin-skinned that no criticism is allowed?

As the Dodo says in "Alice in Wonderland" --

EVERYBODY has won, and all must have
prizes.'
 

I think it's fine to disagree, say "I don't see it that way. This is my opinion." Or "what I've read runs counter to that."

But what I'm against is even the slightest hint of insult to the other poster. It's not necessary to characterize the individual in any way. All one needs to do is state one's own view and leave it at that. One's personal opinion of someone else has no place here. For example, there are people here whose politics run very different than my own. So I might have some vague impression/opinion of those folks regarding that one aspect. But that doesn't mean we can't talk trains without insulting each other.

I just don't want the snark, the mud-slinging, and the insults to the intelligence, experience, education or knowledge-base of others.

Put another way: Sometime you just know you're right. (For this example let's assume your are actually objectively correct.) And you know the other guy is wrong. All you have to do is state what you know is right, and back it up if you can. But you do not need to point out in any personal way that the other fellow is wrong.

Honestly, there are folks on here that tend to rub me the wrong way sometimes. But I try really hard not to say anything personal in my responses. Or I just don't respond at all. Once you get personal, things tend to ratchet up. Have I broken this rule myself on occasion in the past? Yes, I admit it. And I was wrong to do so.

Buy a punching bag and mount it in your garage; vent your aggression there rather than in this forum.

Still in training.


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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, April 1, 2022 6:15 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 
charlie hebdo

Well said. However, I realize this is not academia or a research forum. Nevertheless, I think it is entirely appropriate to ask the poster for a source for his assertion that the locomotive is a dragon: actual published source or just his opinion. Such is not a personal attack and should not be construed as such in the marketplace of ideas.

 

 

 

Again, it's all in how it's presented. "Sources?" usually comes off about as polite as "Oh yeah? Says who?". A more informal approach that would encourage discussion over arguement would be something like "Where are you seeing that? Most articles I've read in Dragon Owner's Digest magazine say that steam engines are really dragons".

      I worked with a guy how had way of suggesting that something was BS: "Well, I don't know if that's necessarily true...". That got the point accross in a nice way without any fightin' words.

 

 

One of the Chinese inscriptions on the Boone & Scenic Valley's steam engine (Last one built at the Datong works.) translated reads something like, "The engine is like a dragon that bounds through the valley."  

So maybe steam engines really are dragons.

Jeff

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Posted by Backshop on Friday, April 1, 2022 4:47 PM

D.Carleton

As Lizzy said: If the boys wanna fight you better let 'em.

 

I heard she had anorexia.

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, April 1, 2022 4:32 PM

Murphy Siding

 

 
charlie hebdo

Well said. However, I realize this is not academia or a research forum. Nevertheless, I think it is entirely appropriate to ask the poster for a source for his assertion that the locomotive is a dragon: actual published source or just his opinion. Such is not a personal attack and should not be construed as such in the marketplace of ideas.

 

 

 

Again, it's all in how it's presented. "Sources?" usually comes off about as polite as "Oh yeah? Says who?". A more informal approach that would encourage discussion over arguement would be something like "Where are you seeing that? Most articles I've read in Dragon Owner's Digest magazine say that steam engines are really dragons".

      I worked with a guy how had way of suggesting that something was BS: "Well, I don't know if that's necessarily true...". That got the point accross in a nice way without any fightin' words.

 

 

Exactly.. its the presentation.. it's the difference betweeen getting fired and getting promoted.. staying married or getting divorced.. 

 

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