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Baltimore and Ohio and West Virginia Mainline

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, November 27, 2020 10:45 PM

Backshop
Another thing to consider is that with the big downturn in coal mining, there isn't anywhere as much online business and there wouldn't be enough bridge traffic to maintain it.

CSX kept the lines out of Grafton that supported coal mines.  Those that did not support mines were either abandoned or turned over to short line operators.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Backshop on Friday, November 27, 2020 7:57 PM

Another thing to consider is that with the big downturn in coal mining, there isn't anywhere as much online business and there wouldn't be enough bridge traffic to maintain it.

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Posted by mvlandsw on Friday, November 27, 2020 7:50 PM
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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 12:14 PM

Fred M Cain
Balt,

Good thoughts, there.  One thing that I have never agreed with is the idea that when a line is deemed unprofitable, the thing to do is to abandon it and pull the tracks up.  I think there are a number of cases where railroads have burned their bridges behing them by doing that.  I have always believed that a better approach would be to simply mothball the line as the Union Pacific has done with their Wellton line in Arizona (possibly Tennesse Pass as well).

Do property taxes play a roll in this?  If so, that would make sense.  High taxes discourage investment and if taxes are punitive enough they actually ENCOURAGE disinvestment.

Now, if the Ex-B&O mainline were mothballed, CSX might consider considering taking a second look at higher tunnel clearances. But, with the tracks gone.........

Sad, sad, sad.  Who else said that in capital letters?

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

The grades between Cumberland and Grafton are more severe than between Cumberland and Connellsville over Sand Patch.

In some cases, when a right of way is ABANDONED, the railroad no longer retains title to the property the track was constructed upon.  Once the rails are gone - they are gone forever.

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Posted by Fred M Cain on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 12:06 PM

Balt,

Good thoughts, there.  One thing that I have never agreed with is the idea that when a line is deemed unprofitable, the thing to do is to abandon it and pull the tracks up.  I think there are a number of cases where railroads have burned their bridges behing them by doing that.  I have always believed that a better approach would be to simply mothball the line as the Union Pacific has done with their Wellton line in Arizona (possibly Tennesse Pass as well).

Do property taxes play a roll in this?  If so, that would make sense.  High taxes discourage investment and if taxes are punitive enough they actually ENCOURAGE disinvestment.

Now, if the Ex-B&O mainline were mothballed, CSX might consider considering taking a second look at higher tunnel clearances. But, with the tracks gone.........

Sad, sad, sad.  Who else said that in capital letters?

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 11:25 AM

Fred M Cain
Balt,

Thanks for your response and the information.  I now know more than I did before.  However, I'm still not understanding how they're shipping double stacks from the Washington D.C. area to St Louis.   My guess is they're sending them up Sand Patch to Pittsburgh then on up to the Akron area then west to near Greenwich, OH where the former Conrail line is intersected then back down to Indy and on west from there.  That is not a direct route by any means.  It's hard for me to understand how competitive that can be with over-the-road trucking.

OR, they could still send trains west through Grafton, Clarksburg, Parkersburg then down to Huntington and then back up to Cinncinati, but that's REALLY winding around and would probably take even longer and I'm not sure they'd have the clearance on those routes anyhow.

It also kinda looks to me like the former B&O mainline has either been abandoned, sold to short line operators or some combination thereof in eastern Ohio east of Cinncy.  Is that right?  Has all the right of way now been completely obliterated or has most of it been "rail banked"?

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

Bean counters and line drawers have very different views of the railroads and how to conduct business.

Industry really doesn't care that route A is a day quicker than route B (especially if railroad cars are being used).  What they care about is that their switch happens 'On Time' daily and whatever the transit times for their shipment are - that shipment time is consistent.  

I don't necessarily agree with the bean counters, however, at the top levels of the company they are in possession of more hard facts than I am.  I have no real knowledge of what has happened to the former B&O trackage from Cincinnati to Grafton.  My understanding is the that the former B&O Illinois Sub has had its track severed at Noble and Caseyville, IL with no traffic operating between those points - the rail is still in place and has not been abandoned.

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Posted by Fred M Cain on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 11:05 AM

Balt,

Thanks for your response and the information.  I now know more than I did before.  However, I'm still not understanding how they're shipping double stacks from the Washington D.C. area to St Louis.   My guess is they're sending them up Sand Patch to Pittsburgh then on up to the Akron area then west to near Greenwich, OH where the former Conrail line is intersected then back down to Indy and on west from there.  That is not a direct route by any means.  It's hard for me to understand how competitive that can be with over-the-road trucking.

OR, they could still send trains west through Grafton, Clarksburg, Parkersburg then down to Huntington and then back up to Cinncinati, but that's REALLY winding around and would probably take even longer and I'm not sure they'd have the clearance on those routes anyhow.

It also kinda looks to me like the former B&O mainline has either been abandoned, sold to short line operators or some combination thereof in eastern Ohio east of Cinncy.  Is that right?  Has all the right of way now been completely obliterated or has most of it been "rail banked"?

Regards,

Fred M. Cain

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 9:08 AM

Grafton - Parkersburg was closed because of clearance issues and a lack of on line traffic.  While the line did have a clearance project undertaken on its many tunnels in the 1960's those projects cleared the line to approximately 17'6" standards - it was undertaken at a time when double stacked containers as a form of rail transportation was not even a pipedream.  CSX came into existance in 1980 and shortly thereafter, visionaries, could see the use of double stacking of containers as well as the enclosing of automobile racks - both of which would seriously exceed the 17'6" clearance plate.  It was determined that the necessary clearance project to handle the traffic on the line would not be cost effective and subsequently operational plans were made to allow the route to be abandoned.

I might add that as early as the late 1940's the B&O determined there wasn't sufficient passenger traffic to support a dedicated Baltimore - Cincinnati train (The Cincinnatian).  Passengers on a line (at that time) foretold the level of freight traffic the line could generate.  

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Posted by csxns on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 8:17 AM

Fred M Cain
How many more lines like this do we have to lose?

The rails between Shelby NC and Blacksburg SC are now pulled up going to be a walking trail.

Russell

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Baltimore and Ohio and West Virginia Mainline
Posted by Fred M Cain on Wednesday, November 25, 2020 7:08 AM
Does anyone know why the former B&O mainline across West Virginia west of Grafton was abandoned?  It seems to me that this could have possibly been an important line.
 
How is CSX handling hot freight and intermodal shipments from the Baltimore/Washington area to St Louis?  Seems to me like they would have to transverse a rather circuitous routing.
 
Is this because this current routing avoids mountains so that it has very nearly the same running time in spite of the fact that’s it’s much longer?  Or, has CSX simply given up on that market?
 
A short section at the western end of the line east of St Louis has also been closed although the last I knew the rails were still in place.
 
How many more lines like this do we have to lose?
Regards,
Fred M. Cain

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