Lets not leave out the attorneys who, after defending the RR's from lawsuits without merit, create the language which industrial clients are requested to sign.
Those 'hometown juries' award damages that the big rich railroad has to pay. Many issues involved with this subject.
We are living in a 'Gotcha' world.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Shadow the Cats ownerWe have 10 empties that have needed to be picked up here at our SIT yard
What does SIT mean? (Although, if pronounced lke an acronym, it seems to perhaps explain itself!)
Stuck in transit
Sitting In TheWay
Stopped in timelessness
Sorta idling there
Stupid Incidence of track-blocking
So inconvenient there
So, it's traveling?
Situation I'm tolerating
Sabotaged, I'm told
But, seriously folks ...
What does it mean?
Sadly Irrelevant Trailer?
Site for Immobile Trains
Sucks, in toto
Stuck, idle, trapped
Suspended in time
Lithonia Operator But, seriously folks ... What does it mean?
Storage in Transit
At one time the Railroads had numerous 'Transit' rates that covered various manufacturing/logistics operations.
In general the Tranist rates created a through rate between original origin and ultimate destination for someting that changes form in route. Milling in Transit was a frequently applied rate. 100K tons of wheat are loaded at Elevator 1 and are shipped to Mill 9, at Mill 9 those 100K tons of wheat are ground into flour that are then moved to BakerZ. A through transit rate applies to the trip from Elevatorl 1 to BakerZ, despite the product changing form at Mill 9. The railraod had to keep track of the tonnages handled at Mill 9 to make sure they weren't being 'played' by the participants in the shipment moving in this service.
Storage in transit. Now there's an oxymoron for for you.
Thanks, Balt.
As it's applied today, of course, SIT is just a cheap way to store product. Certainly cheaper than building silos or other storage facilities that you have to pay property tax on.
Houston Ed's railroad operated several SIT yards, as I recall.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
UP and BNSF have them as well.... Crocodile tears from industry if they screw up and leave something where demurrage rates kick in.
tree68 As it's applied today, of course, SIT is just a cheap way to store product. Certainly cheaper than building silos or other storage facilities that you have to pay property tax on. Houston Ed's railroad operated several SIT yards, as I recall.
But Shadow's owner said those cars were empty.
Lithonia Operator tree68 As it's applied today, of course, SIT is just a cheap way to store product. Certainly cheaper than building silos or other storage facilities that you have to pay property tax on. Houston Ed's railroad operated several SIT yards, as I recall. But Shadow's owner said those cars were empty.
I presume 'the cat' notified the railroad the cars are now able to be pulled - it is amazing how many times that simple act gets overlooked.
We have been trying for now 3 weeks to get them removed from our SIT yard and still nothing. We also have 2 sidings full of fracking sand that needs to be picked up but again can not get anyone at NS to respond to our demands. Yep your hearing that right 2k tons of product needed in other states plus our empties and we still can not get anyone to respond to our requests for service. Emails phone calls hell my boss even tried smoke signals and also asked a track crew that was doing work on the NS line today when they would be coming for these cars. Track worker called the dispatcher and was told we were never told by the Sales department that service had been requested. My boss proceeded to call the head of the Sales department for the area we are in a few choice words.
Then he found out why our requests had been ignored. NS was trying to freeze us out due to PSR. Why we don't ship a trainload a week with them. Our lawyers are now involved this one will be fun as well they are suggesting a formal complaint to the STB along with a request for an order to provide service to us.
Shadow the Cats owner We have been trying for now 3 weeks to get them removed from our SIT yard and still nothing. We also have 2 sidings full of fracking sand that needs to be picked up but again can not get anyone at NS to respond to our demands. Yep your hearing that right 2k tons ... Then he found out why our requests had been ignored. NS was trying to freeze us out due to PSR. Why we don't ship a trainload a week with them. Our lawyers are now involved this one will be fun as well they are suggesting a formal complaint to the STB along with a request for an order to provide service to us.
We have been trying for now 3 weeks to get them removed from our SIT yard and still nothing. We also have 2 sidings full of fracking sand that needs to be picked up but again can not get anyone at NS to respond to our demands. Yep your hearing that right 2k tons ...
Shadow the Cats owner It also doesn't help that the Railroads especially the class 1's treat customer service like it is a black hole something never to be done. We have 10 empties that have needed to be picked up here at our SIT yard on the NS side of the operation. I have been trying to get a hold of someone at NS for the last 2 weeks to get them taken away. My emails phone calls have gone unanswered. Heck even my boss can not get anyone on the freaking phone. Yet at anytime anyone of our customers can call us during regular hours and within 2 mins tops have someone on the phone and have that person working on solving their needs and problem they are having. I hope this explains why industries also left the Railroads they flat out do not care about their small customers anymore. Unless your name is UPS JB or a major shipper and even then you might get ignored at times.
It also doesn't help that the Railroads especially the class 1's treat customer service like it is a black hole something never to be done. We have 10 empties that have needed to be picked up here at our SIT yard on the NS side of the operation. I have been trying to get a hold of someone at NS for the last 2 weeks to get them taken away. My emails phone calls have gone unanswered. Heck even my boss can not get anyone on the freaking phone. Yet at anytime anyone of our customers can call us during regular hours and within 2 mins tops have someone on the phone and have that person working on solving their needs and problem they are having. I hope this explains why industries also left the Railroads they flat out do not care about their small customers anymore. Unless your name is UPS JB or a major shipper and even then you might get ignored at times.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy they are not responding to anything we send them. Electronic requests for service emails phone calls to our supposed CS rep are going unanswered. Our lawyers can not even get anyone to answer the freaking phone as to why they are refusing to service us and we are at the point we are demanding answers. BNSF stepped up to the plate got our cars that NS had with the Medical grade resins we had been hauling in our trucks to interchanged in Chicago and then dropped them off in our SIT yard on their tracks. This way we can start providing proper service to our customer again. NS I swear is in a full fledged PSR meltdown when it comes to PSR customer relations and anymore they are shooting themselves in the head while trying to shoot themselves in the foot. The local ethonal plant they service in the area is wanting to have Iowa Interstate put in a track to service them as NS does not want the business either.
Lithonia Operator Shadow the Cats owner We have been trying for now 3 weeks to get them removed from our SIT yard and still nothing. We also have 2 sidings full of fracking sand that needs to be picked up but again can not get anyone at NS to respond to our demands. Yep your hearing that right 2k tons ... Then he found out why our requests had been ignored. NS was trying to freeze us out due to PSR. Why we don't ship a trainload a week with them. Our lawyers are now involved this one will be fun as well they are suggesting a formal complaint to the STB along with a request for an order to provide service to us. That's outrageous. Really bad. Kind of a poster child for what's wrong with PSR from the customer point of view. Please keep us posted on this. I'm very interested in where this leads.
Unfortunately, this sort of thing has been the norm for railroad-customer relationships in recent years. Every time someone tries to spout off about how great Hunter Harrison and PSR are, remember stories like this.
This may be a ploy to squeeze higher freight rates out of Shadow's employer, as opposed to completely running them off (but that works too if it will make the OR go down).
The PSR mentality toward captive customers is similar to the Mafia. Don't ship or pay enough? Well, that's a nice operation you got there, would be a shame if something were to "happen" to it.......
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
We're on an anti-OT kick now. Nothing over 9 hours and change. No exceptions.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
My experience with dealing with NS and CSX for 38 years in several public agencies:
1- If they ignore you long enough you will go away and stop bothering them.
2- Nobody has the authority to say yes, but everyone has the authority to say no.
I've heard from a couple of different sources that we're going to piddle away a $10 million a year contract. The contract requires they get service (switched) 5 days a week, but the railroad has decided to only switch them 3 days a week. They want the 5 day service.
The customer has complained, but so far as I know they have not taken legal action. They are however, building new truck docks.
Jeff
How bad does it get before the feared "R" word starts to get thrown about?
I wouldn't blame every service failure today on some facet of PSR. Service failures have been around since the beginning of time, and they will go on forever or until humans somehow evolve to a perfect state. I don't ship alot by rail, but I have noticed a marked improvement over the last 20 years. Most of all, its easier to do business with the railroads... they respond in a timely manner to rate and service requests.. and I'm by no means a high volume user of rail. Many shippers who now don't use rail left long ago.. back in the 70s when economic regulations were still firmly in place. Many of those will likely never come back as they've pivoted to other modes and likely any direct rail access has been removed decades ago.
Ulrich I don't ship alot by rail, but I have noticed a marked improvement over the last 20 years. Most of all, its easier to do business with the railroads... they respond in a timely manner to rate and service requests.. and I'm by no means a high volume user of rail.
Which railroad(s) are you typically doing business with?
adkrr64 Ulrich I don't ship alot by rail, but I have noticed a marked improvement over the last 20 years. Most of all, its easier to do business with the railroads... they respond in a timely manner to rate and service requests.. and I'm by no means a high volume user of rail. Which railroad(s) are you typically doing business with?
CN and CSX primarily
At least one of those entities that fits your description has filed a complaint with STB. (Sanimax, and they are also in the courts / NOR 42171)
Shadow the Cats owner Murphy they are not responding to anything we send them. Electronic requests for service emails phone calls to our supposed CS rep are going unanswered. Our lawyers can not even get anyone to answer the freaking phone as to why they are refusing to service us and we are at the point we are demanding answers. BNSF stepped up to the plate got our cars that NS had with the Medical grade resins we had been hauling in our trucks to interchanged in Chicago and then dropped them off in our SIT yard on their tracks. This way we can start providing proper service to our customer again. NS I swear is in a full fledged PSR meltdown when it comes to PSR customer relations and anymore they are shooting themselves in the head while trying to shoot themselves in the foot. The local ethonal plant they service in the area is wanting to have Iowa Interstate put in a track to service them as NS does not want the business either.
This is an interesting thread to read, when weighed against the hard cases who insist:
A. No railroad has EVER chased away a customer that was willing to pay a fair price
B. No railroad has ever abandoned a line that had willing customers wanting to do business
Both are arguments we've seen advanced here a time or two.
UlrichI wouldn't blame every service failure today on some facet of PSR.
PSR is just another tool. But it's like using your ratchet for a hammer.
Convicted One A. No railroad has EVER chased away a customer that was willing to pay a fair price B. No railroad has ever abandoned a line that had willing customers wanting to do business
Methinks the impression has been the difference between how the others view "fair."
tree68the impression has been the difference between how the others view "fair."
I have no doubt that is a factor, but I also believe other factors such as volume, opportunity cost, and incompetence have their roles, as well.
What is that old saying: "we are too much accustomed to attribute to a single cause, problems that are a product of many"
It's amazing when you threaten to get the STB involved in with a service issue with a railroad that is under the PSR belief system. Just the threat of my boss going to them from his lawyers got the NS to not only pull our empties but also the loads that had been waiting for weeks then also bring in cars we had been waiting on those that had not been diverted to the BNSF for us. We also got a formal apology from the Dearborn Division trainmaster and 2 different customer service reps also called my boss and personally apologized to him. The best part was NS agreed to service us as needed from now on and did it in writing.
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