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CSX Train hits car

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, October 15, 2020 10:31 AM

Euclid
The criticism was completely justified, and it was not by just one person.

That's your opinion - which I think is wrong.  But that's my opinion. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, October 15, 2020 10:31 AM

What's really amazing to me is how the car driver could have done that when the whole place is so well lit.

I recall a similar layout in Oakland CA, down by Jack London Square.  Back in the day, at least, it wasn't lit; so the poor screwup at least had SOME excuse.  And, yup, I saw cars "parked" there.

 

Ed

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, October 15, 2020 10:16 AM

 

zugmann
 
Lithonia Operator
But when the Amtrak engineer that struck the CSX employees did that, she got crucified on this forum.

 

By one person. 

 

The criticism was completely justified, and it was not by just one person.

 

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Posted by zugmann on Thursday, October 15, 2020 10:12 AM

Lithonia Operator
But when the Amtrak engineer that struck the CSX employees did that, she got crucified on this forum.

By one person. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:50 AM

Convicted One
So, perhaps the engineer was using manual means to apply the brake up to the point of contact? And then went into emergency upon contact?

Not to make this semantics, but I believe the term you want is not 'manual' but 'full service'.  

And I suspect it is fully logical that the train would initially be put into full extended-range dynamic, blended with service if possible, rather than straight into 'emergency' (especially if there are any sections of lightly-loaded or baretable cars in the consist) to get 'way off' the train, followed by emergency if it became apparent at lower speed that a collision was still likely.  I obviously default to the actual engineers here as to how 'correct' braking in this sort of situation is best made. 

On the other hand, nailing emergency after actual collision is, as it was in the case of Sahara and the two conductors, pointless: not really better than feel-good sentimentality or CYA.

I detect the presence of a flammable accelerant of sorts -- ethanol -- in this accident... Whistling 

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:50 AM

I assume the engineer made an emergency application about the point where the train was first visible in the video.  The first indication of trouble seen by the crew was probably the flashing lights of the squad cars near the track.  They also may have seen the car about the same time. 

If the train was passing through that area at only say 20 mph, they may have just made a service application.  If so, that was not enough to stop in time.    

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:24 AM

Convicted One

Multiple videos for the same location, it appears that is not an uncommon  problem for this crossing? 

 

It's not uncommon at all.  I know exactly  where that grade crossing is and have driven over it many times, in daylight and after dark.  So let me tell you, you really have to have your head up your a$$ to foul up like that driver did, and like other drivers do.  No sympathy.  At least no-one was killed or injured. 

At least the car was removed from the tracks courtesy of CSX!  

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:16 AM

Lithonia Operator
How do we know the train was not in emergency?

I don't know that.  Just speculating in conjunction with the observation that the train appears to slow down much faster after contact. 

So, perhaps the engineer was using manual means to apply the break up to the point of contact? And then went into emergency upon contact?

And I hope we won't get into some dreadful game of semantics over ~they don't call it "manual"~...

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Posted by MMLDelete on Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:09 AM

Convicted One

Someone mentioned a policy of not going into emergency until contact was made.

I have no opinion on what's the best policy.

But when the Amtrak engineer that struck the CSX employees did that, she got crucified on this forum.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Thursday, October 15, 2020 9:06 AM

How do we know the train was not in emergency? Lack of squealing noise and brake smoke?

If he was not in emergency, maybe that's because the train had been contacted (police to dispatcher to engineer) and told the car was no longer occupied. And the engineer determined that the impact speed would be low.

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:57 AM

Someone mentioned a policy of not going into emergency until contact was made.

So, I was contemplating that the engineer might have been doing everything he could to stop, ..up to the point of contact, and then just went into emergency upon contact.

Sort of like "throwing out the anchor"  lol.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:57 AM

Lithonia Operator
Alcohol.

Probably coupled with a voiced GPS instruction to 'Turn Left'.

Voiced GPS instruction 'can' seem very instant to execute the instruction now!

Track speed through Ashland is 45 MPH.  With engines stopping within 150 feet of the impact, it is evident that the train had been braking for a period of time before arriving at the scene.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:53 AM

Convicted One
When you watch the video, the rate of deceleration appears to change after contact is made.

It's possible that it might have.  At that point the brake set would be firmly applied, perhaps with both independent and automatic set, and even small retardation would produce rapid deceleration.  But from the way the car moved when 'pushed, the train was already in the tail end of the speed below 5mph where there is progressively lower momentum for the high fixed braking friction to overcome.  They almost made it; the moving the car was almost incidental.

Some graphic indication of the nature of high-speed train braking is in the LRC accident video from 1991, where it is obvious the two trains are going to collide right up to nearly the moment the passenger train stops.

See the notes about 'cab lights going red' when GEs are put in emergency.  That would place the faster deceleration rate starting very shortly after the 'red light', with emergency pressure applying to clamped shoes already in full contact through fully tensioned linkages via the full service set.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:48 AM

Convicted One
Glad that I could summons you out of hybernation, tho...

It takes work, these days.  You ... you're worth getting to think about something.

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:41 AM

Overmod
I have some technical reading for you to do. 

Glad that I could summons you out of hybernation, tho...Pirate

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:39 AM

When you watch the video, the rate of deceleration appears to change after contact is made.  I doubt that the drag of the vehicle made much difference in the momentum.

 

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:31 AM

Convicted One
Seems to support the claims of some members here that the official policy is to wait until after contact before going into emergency.

If you think that an intermodal train stops in one and a half engine lengths when put in emergency, I have some technical reading for you to do. Smile

As Tree said, they almost got it stopped in time.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:31 AM

JC UPTON
Makes one wonder if anyone called the emergency phone nimber posted on the crossing gate installation....

It's not always the fastest process - you start with a call-taker, who has to figure out where the crossing is, and which dispatcher to notify.

The train almost stopped in time.  Based on how long the horn was being blown, they gave it the old college try.  What's the normal speed through there?

The first unit there (white SUV) appeared to be FD rather than PD.  Doesn't mean the call shouldn't have been made.  Around here the FD dispatcher would call the railroad, not the person on the scene.

Given the street running in Ashland, and the apparent frequent interactions between trains and vehicles there, you'd think dispatch would have the railroad on speed dial.

LarryWhistling
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There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:30 AM

It seems interesting how the train managed to stop so soon after hitting the car. Seems to support the claims of some members here that the official policy is to wait until after contact before going into emergency.

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Posted by JC UPTON on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:09 AM

I find it intersting that, despite police on the scene, the gates go down and the train approaches...

 

Makes one wonder if anyone called the emergency phone nimber posted on the crossing gate installation....

from the Far East of the Sunset Route

(In the shadow of the Huey P Long bridge)

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Posted by Convicted One on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:08 AM

Multiple videos for the same location, it appears that is not an uncommon  problem for this crossing? 

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Posted by MMLDelete on Thursday, October 15, 2020 8:02 AM

Alcohol.

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CSX Train hits car
Posted by CMStPnP on Thursday, October 15, 2020 6:43 AM

I have seen some people almost do this but they usually stop before the pavement ends.    Even in the dark, I don't know how you can get confused by where to turn when you have crossing signals right there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDjOoCY_7ms

 

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