zugmannMaybe they can link the ENS number when you stop moving on the tracks?
Of course a reasonable solution is to serve all the ENS numbers for a given likely positional drift, and automate making emergency calls to them all based on the ENS metadata. This might result in some false-positive train slowdowns but I think would accomplish the necessary prompt notification.
I would agree that things like ease of 'false alarms' sent maliciously by east-to-use apps may be a concern, but less of one than the safety that would be gained.
OvermodYes, whining as hominems from hypocrites does that to me. But unlike you I'll stop discussing it now. When you work for Kalmbach you can tell me what and what not to post.
Nah, you'll be back in the next topic.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann Must have touched a nerve.
When you work for Kalmbach you can tell me what and what not to post.
adkrr64The Wayze app does specifically highlight RR crossings and will play a special tone when approaching them. I don't think it would necessarily help in this particular situation.
Maybe they can link the ENS number when you stop moving on the tracks?
OvermodTou can shut up about it now, just like I have about chronic misspellings.
Must have touched a nerve.
Again with the apple rants. Go to MacRumors and sound off there. You keep twisting every topic into your love/hate/whatever for apple products. It's just weird. And that's coming from me.
zugmann You do know they make other phones, right? You don't have to have an apple. Heck, you don't even have to use apple maps - you can download other map apps. Although I'm sure none of them go through great pains to tell you to be careful and not drive ont eh RR tracks.
You do know they make other phones, right? You don't have to have an apple. Heck, you don't even have to use apple maps - you can download other map apps. Although I'm sure none of them go through great pains to tell you to be careful and not drive ont eh RR tracks.
The Wayze app does specifically highlight RR crossings and will play a special tone when approaching them. I don't think it would necessarily help in this particular situation.
zugmannYou do know they make other phones, right? You don't have to have an apple.
It would be remarkably simple to fix the issues with iPhone navigation -- better TXOs for the GPS core, losing the sliding scale, better voice prompting, and allowing zoom or pan to predict a route in progress being simple things that other nav systems did properly before 2000. Even porting the last-generation Windows-Phone nav application to iOS would solve all these, and more, like not having address entry come up with the numerical keyboard since that's the way everyone enters addresses now.
As it happens I prefer Apple phones for all the stuff they do better than Android. I was perfectly happy with what the 4s did, and would still be using it except, you know, crApple stopped supporting it. I have a large number of Macs running 10.6.8 by choice (as I do still use files from PowerPC applications) but many crApple apps won't run on them... although they do just fine on Windows ME machines a decade older. Excuse that, if you can.
Incidentally, leaving the fanboi stuff aside where it belongs, perhaps the 'best' alternative remains one of the earliest ones. As an upgrade to CONELRAD during the Nixon administration, the idea was floated of having car FM radios (then a relatively new feature) be made to turn on and automatically be tuned to Energency Broadcast System stations in the current reception area. I was not the only one to realize that short-range local 'low-power FM' transmitters near railroad crossings could be used for warnings when a driver was nearing a crossing, or more active levels of warning when trains were approaching or present. This would likely have been largely warning lights rather than alpha displays ... with sound through the speakers reserved only for emergency notification ... but everyone's new car would have it, and year after year more would until eventually most running cars would be compatible (plus those with aftermarket FM installed) at no major additional cost.
Unfortunately the whole idea failed, in part through anti-Nixon paranoia, but it still represents a road easily taken that would largely address many 'crossing awareness' issues.
EuclidWith all of that in mind, this most recent collision in Ashland almost looks as though it were staged.
You think they were just bored in Ashland that night? Maybe Virtual Railfan wanted more views?
OvermodIt gets worse on crApple Maps. BOTH sides are labeled 'S. Center St. south of town, both sides 'N. Center St. north of town, and in the historic district both sides are S. Railroad Ave, although you have to zoom in heavily to get the east side road to show this. It would be highly interesting to see how the Apple navigation renders a turn when someone has just visibly crossed S. Railroad Ave. in the dark and rain and the nav system instructs them to 'turn now' on S. Railroad Ave...
charlie hebdoI think the gates rotate, across the tracks as the default position, then moving to block the road if a train is coming.
There are associated problems with this idea, including the very distant but legally significant risk of derailment if a barrier does not raise properly and a train hits it. The cost is also orders of magnitude beyond paint, the flexible pole barriers, and appropriate warning signage, and likely also beyond effective ramping.
Euclid BaltACD Euclid An article from five years ago, in detailing a City policy in dealing with railroad related emergencies says that in the case where a car is stuck on the tracks, the first responding unit would contact CSX. Surely, that would prevent any collision if there is time to make this contact while no trains are too close to stop in time. I assume that this contact would reach the train crew in the shortest time possible, no more than 30 seconds. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I know exactly what I am taking about and I made it perfectly clear. Why don't you tell us what you are talking about so we can understand and consider it?
BaltACD Euclid An article from five years ago, in detailing a City policy in dealing with railroad related emergencies says that in the case where a car is stuck on the tracks, the first responding unit would contact CSX. Surely, that would prevent any collision if there is time to make this contact while no trains are too close to stop in time. I assume that this contact would reach the train crew in the shortest time possible, no more than 30 seconds. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Euclid An article from five years ago, in detailing a City policy in dealing with railroad related emergencies says that in the case where a car is stuck on the tracks, the first responding unit would contact CSX. Surely, that would prevent any collision if there is time to make this contact while no trains are too close to stop in time. I assume that this contact would reach the train crew in the shortest time possible, no more than 30 seconds.
Surely, that would prevent any collision if there is time to make this contact while no trains are too close to stop in time. I assume that this contact would reach the train crew in the shortest time possible, no more than 30 seconds.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
I know exactly what I am taking about and I made it perfectly clear. Why don't you tell us what you are talking about so we can understand and consider it?
Leave the world of fantasy and enter the world of reality.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
charlie hebdo Flintlock76 And that's all I'm going to say on that subject. Are you sure you can? How about refraining from your use of reductio ad absurdum arguments as well?
Flintlock76 And that's all I'm going to say on that subject.
Are you sure you can? How about refraining from your use of reductio ad absurdum arguments as well?
I'm sure I can. Are you sure you can stop playing the elitist?
And let me remind you, a while back you asked me to keep something private, and so I have. And so I will. Maybe you need a little reminder I'm a man of my word.
Forget it, to day I'm in no mood.
I think Ashland, VA would be a perfect place to test prototypes for a stalled vehicle train warning system. Such a system only protects against trains striking stalled vehicles, and that is unusually frequent in Ashland. This would be a modern version of trying to fiddle around calling the railroad in the case of track being fouled by stalled vehicles.
The stalled vehicle detector would bring the message right into the locomotive cab, and the action called for would be clear.
tree68 Lithonia Operator Then add Tree's flexible markers. Someone else suggested them - I just brought them back up. Credit where due. As has been pointed out, there are those who will defeat even the most fool-proof protections. They'd just drive between the delineators and onto the tracks. A solution suggested by the photo of a British line would be to put in a set of standard gates across the tracks. They'd go up when the roadway gates go down. Perhaps they could even be made to failsafe up instead of down, as is the case with the road gates. Definitely one more thing to maintain, but at least it's an existing technology. The question is whether the municipality is willing to foot the bill. As has been pointed out, they are the interloper - the railroad was there first.
Lithonia Operator Then add Tree's flexible markers.
Someone else suggested them - I just brought them back up. Credit where due.
As has been pointed out, there are those who will defeat even the most fool-proof protections. They'd just drive between the delineators and onto the tracks.
A solution suggested by the photo of a British line would be to put in a set of standard gates across the tracks. They'd go up when the roadway gates go down.
Perhaps they could even be made to failsafe up instead of down, as is the case with the road gates. Definitely one more thing to maintain, but at least it's an existing technology.
The question is whether the municipality is willing to foot the bill. As has been pointed out, they are the interloper - the railroad was there first.
I think the gates rotate, across the tracks as the default position, then moving to block the road if a train is coming. At least they were that way at some crossings in the past.
Lithonia OperatorThen add Tree's flexible markers.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
EuclidAn article from five years ago, in detailing a City policy in dealing with railroad related emergencies says that in the case where a car is stuck on the tracks, the first responding unit would contact CSX. Surely, that would prevent any collision if there is time to make this contact while no trains are too close to stop in time. I assume that this contact would reach the train crew in the shortest time possible, no more than 30 seconds.
An article from five years ago, in detailing a City policy in dealing with railroad related emergencies says that in the case where a car is stuck on the tracks, the first responding unit would contact CSX.
In the case of this most recent collision, first responders were on the scene apparently several minutes before the train arrived. And even after it did arrive in sight, there was plenty of time to stop before impact. So I am curious about what happened in this latest collision.
This is an odd situation because you have a disproportionate amount of stalled vehicle grade crossing collisions that have nothing to do with motorists trying to beat the train. Generally, stalled vehicle collisions have nothing to do with crossing warnings and approaching trains. They only feature a vehicle that has encountered a problem on its own. So with a stalled vehicle there is often way more than enough time to take some type of collision preventative action before a train arrives.
In Ashland, VA, there is an unusual tendency for vehicles to become stalled on the track, but also an unusual amount of people nearby to witness the problem and to take action to help prevent a collision if there is sufficient time. With all of that in mind, this most recent collision in Ashland almost looks as though it were staged.
Flintlock76And that's all I'm going to say on that subject.
EuclidWhat is the current thinking in the town as to whether there is a problem and what do do about it if there is? In the article, it sounds like there is a problem, and they go into detail about ways to eliminate the problem.
Considering that the article was from 2017, I wonder if they ever implemented their remedy.
I recall someone saying the train speed limit through there is 45 mph. Is that the speed that trains normally pass through there?
I would not be surprised to find that this reduction is in response to one of the crossing mishaps...
EuclidWhen you say the use of the term, "anecdotal evidence" says it all, what is it that you think it says?
What it means to me is "The exception doesn't prove the rule." Hundreds, if not thousands more make it through that grade crossing without incident, so the actions of an inattentive few shouldn't be the cause for mass panic or hysteria.
Yeah, call me a heartless unfeeling SOB, I don't care.
Sure, we can take all the precautions we want and put up all the warnings we want but as I said earlier there's some out there you can't save from themselves no matter what you do.
Hey, we could reduce the death toll from driving accidents to almost zero if we set a national speed limit of 25 MPH. How many of you would agree to that?
And that's all I'm going to say on that subject.
I think painting the line (or two lines, maybe one white, one yellow or orange) as Paul said would help a lot.
Then add Tree's flexible markers.
Plus slope the pavement, so the wayward drivers have a chance of extracting themselves.
They could also post big yellow signs in each direction, that say "For Left Turn Cross 2 Tracks THEN Turn."
All that together, and they've really changed the odds.
Flintlock76 Interesting story, but it's three years old. The important paragraph, to me at least, is the one that begins with "Anecdotal evidence..." In a way, it kind of says it all.
Interesting story, but it's three years old.
The important paragraph, to me at least, is the one that begins with "Anecdotal evidence..." In a way, it kind of says it all.
When you say the use of the term, "anecdotal evidence" says it all, what is it that you think it says? It seems that you are saying that the article is exaggerting the problem, or that the problem was three years ago, but has been fixed since then.
What is the current thinking in the town as to whether there is a problem and what do do about it if there is? In the article, it sounds like there is a problem, and they go into detail about ways to eliminate the problem. Considering that the article was from 2017, I wonder if they ever implemented their remedy.
Are there people in the town calling for the relocation of the town or the railroad? I recall someone saying the train speed limit through there is 45 mph. Is that the speed that trains normally pass through there?
Since this issue of accidentally driving onto the track is common there, and that the police showed up before the train did, I wonder if the train crew was informed of the problem before their train arrived. If this type of incident is common, I assume that the police can almost instantly get a message to the railroad to stop all approaching trains. Since the train actually hit the vehicle, I have to assume that the crew had no warning notification. If they were warned before arriving at the town, and then hit the vehicle anyway, I think there is more going on here than meets the eye.
Paul of Covington Looking at the OP video, it appears that the driver intended to turn left onto the the street beyond the tracks but mistook the pavement between the tracks for the actual street. It seems to me that re-striping would help avoid confusion. There should be a continuous solid wide white or yellow stripe on each side of the crossing all the way across the tracks until it reaches the actual street.
Looking at the OP video, it appears that the driver intended to turn left onto the the street beyond the tracks but mistook the pavement between the tracks for the actual street. It seems to me that re-striping would help avoid confusion. There should be a continuous solid wide white or yellow stripe on each side of the crossing all the way across the tracks until it reaches the actual street.
Based on the news report I'd opine that all the paint in the world wouldn't have made a difference. It was reported that the driver was following his GPS. Anyone who has used a GPS knows that the machine probably said "Turn Left Now." And, he did.
Unfortunately, the box usually says so several feet before you're actually supposed to turn. This has caused numerous people to do exactly the same thing, ending up everywhere but the street where they wanted to go.
Because of the tracks, there is no visual clue at eye level that this is not the street.
What's needed there, and what would be virtually impossible to implement, is a vertical barrier. The flexible traffic delineators would be about the only thing that could work.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Yes it is, but look at the photo on the news link posted. This is the incident from the OP's video. Perhaps this was the incident that prompted the improvements lined out in the article.
Vehicles getting stalled on the tracks in Ashland, VA is routine with an estimated one case per month. So the city is looking for solutions.
https://www.nbc12.com/story/34345572/after-alarming-track-incidents-ashland-looks-to-improve-railroad-safety/
Here you go folks, a map of downtown Ashland VA.
The track driving incident took place at the corner of England St. and Railroad Ave. northbound.
https://www.ashlandva.gov/DocumentCenter/View/268/Downtown-Ashland-Map-2013?bidId=
Here's the Virtual Railfan live feed as of this time ( 4:00 PM EDT) so you can see what it looks like in daylight. Or you can tune in later and see what it looks like after dark.
By the way, I was watching last night and saw a guy in an SUV make a right turn from that left turn lane just to the right of the tracks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSazQn9xn4M
Point of interest: That building with the white gable right-of-center in the background is the old RF&P station built in the 1920's. It's now the Ashland Visitor Center and has an interesting RF&P mini-museum.
And looking south from the train station.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NermPL_3Dc0
Lithonia Operator. One road is one-way southbound, the other one-way northbound. The do share one street name, though.
Memphis has a street called 'Broadway'. Part of the west end was occupied by railroads, and over the years the full width was occupied by the railroad and there's now no 'road' there -- but it is still mapped as Broadway.
Ashland, on their 'official' maps, considers the whole width of road and track together as 'Railroad Avenue' and makes no distinction that any part may be different from a street; in fact the map is drawn as a street with only gray bars to denote there is a double track there.
It gets worse on crApple Maps. BOTH sides are labeled 'S. Center St. south of town, both sides 'N. Center St. north of town, and in the historic district both sides are S. Railroad Ave, although you have to zoom in heavily to get the east side road to show this. It would be highly interesting to see how the Apple navigation renders a turn when someone has just visibly crossed S. Railroad Ave. in the dark and rain and the nav system instructs them to 'turn now' on S. Railroad Ave...
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