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Goodbye to autoracks?

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Posted by Paul Milenkovic on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 8:48 AM

Please remove.

If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 10:11 AM

Efficiency, labor and fuel, is reflected in the prices charged for shippers.  In the end, rail has the ability to provide just as reliable service as truckers do.  If they make the effort.

Just arrived on my in-box, affecting truck reliablity, from the Orlando Sentinal:

All lanes blocked north on SR 429 where semi flips near Turnpike

A driver was transported to the hospital following an accident Wednesday morning involving an overturned semi truck off State Road 429 at the entrance to Florida’s Turnpike blocking all S.R. 429 northbound lanes.
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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 7:23 PM

Gramp

Gad, talk about Amazon.  Fulfillment and delivery centers going in all over it seems.  And air freight, too.  Not a rail or tie in sight.

 

 

Yet on a recent trip to Deshler I saw dozens of of Amazon Prime containers riding on the rails...

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Posted by Backshop on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 8:26 PM

daveklepper

Just arrived on my in-box, affecting truck reliablity, from the Orlando Sentinal:

All lanes blocked north on SR 429 where semi flips near Turnpike

A driver was transported to the hospital following an accident Wednesday morning involving an overturned semi truck off State Road 429 at the entrance to Florida’s Turnpike blocking all S.R. 429 northbound lanes.
 

Luckily, trains never derail.

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Posted by ttrraaffiicc on Thursday, July 30, 2020 12:54 PM

MARTIN STATION
As someone who has worked at an auto plant, I could not imagine shipping vehicles without doing so by rail. I don't know if we could find enough trucks to move everything we made, not to mention the road congestion at the plant and local highways and interstates especially with the perpetual road construction. And arriving parts are always running behind in the winter snow storms, much more by truck than rail.



You could have said this about numerous industries that had high output many years ago. Most industries, especially consumer-oriented ones, have gone to majority trucks. There isn't any difference in auto transport.

You should look at this:
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.oliverwyman.com/content/dam/oliver-wyman/v2-de/events/2019/Case-Railtrends-2019-Speech.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjo39mE4fPqAhV_lHIEHUwVC_QQFjAAegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3wdR5psmHNrQ_Qyr4zWqgm

This presentation highlites how rail's share of auto transport is on a declining path.

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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, July 30, 2020 3:10 PM

I highly recommend watching the whole presentation if you have the time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxUnryZuy8g&feature=emb_logo

Continuing the same business model will be increasingly unviable as the shipping industry trends towards smaller shipments moving shorter distances.

Shifting the business model to account for these changes is possible, however.

 

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Posted by ttrraaffiicc on Thursday, July 30, 2020 4:58 PM

NorthWest
Continuing the same business model will be increasingly unviable as the shipping industry trends towards smaller shipments moving shorter distances. Shifting the business model to account for these changes is possible, however.

Possible, but unlikely. This downwards trajectory is nothing new.

The unfortunate part is that this doesn't take into account the disruption caused by new trucking technologies.

On the topic of auto transport though, the presentation confirms that rail's market share of vehicle transport is weak and that trucks carry out the majority of vehicle transportation for automakers.

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Posted by Bruce D Gillings on Thursday, July 30, 2020 7:05 PM

[quote user="ttrraaffiicc"]

 You could have said this about numerous industries that had high output many years ago. Most industries, especially consumer-oriented ones, have gone to majority trucks. There isn't any difference in auto transport.

Well said by ttrraaffiicc. At one time virtually every industry in the nation used railroading for most shipping. One by one, trucking has taken that traffic away from rail. To think that it won't happen to automotive, or is not already happening, is to ignore history and its lessons. Railroading needs to change and become a customer-centric service industry. Or the decline will accelerate. 

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 30, 2020 9:21 PM

[quote user="Bruce D Gillings"]

ttrraaffiicc

 You could have said this about numerous industries that had high output many years ago. Most industries, especially consumer-oriented ones, have gone to majority trucks. There isn't any difference in auto transport.

Well said by ttrraaffiicc. At one time virtually every industry in the nation used railroading for most shipping. One by one, trucking has taken that traffic away from rail. To think that it won't happen to automotive, or is not already happening, is to ignore history and its lessons. Railroading needs to change and become a customer-centric service industry. Or the decline will accelerate. 

Railroads have been changing their markets as necessary ever since the first 6 barrels of flour were shipped from Ellicott City, MD to Baltimore as the B&O's first revenue freight shipment.  For better or worse, today's Class 1 railroads are not seeking out car load shippers - they are seeking out train load shippers.  The train loads that the Class 1's are oprating would, in may cases, require a thousand or more trucks to haul the designated amount of product.

When I travel long distances, I normally depart at approximately Midnight and drive through the night when traffic is light to non-existant.  However, when it comes time to make a 'pit stop' at a Rest Area on the Interstate, if I am towing my race car and trailer, it becomes next to impossible to find a parking place for all the trucks that are taking their Log Book Rest Period in the Rest Area.  Most states have now errected computer signs to note the number of truck parking spaces that are available at the Rest Areas.

Somehow, I don't think the States really understood the demand upon Rest Area space that the computerized log book would generate.  Rest Areas approacing 'big' cities are the ones that are filled up the most - drivers getting 'full rest' before going to their delivery locations and then getting whipsawed and delayed by personnel at the delivery location.  Once they come off 'rest' the computer clock starts ticking.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Backshop on Friday, July 31, 2020 6:54 AM

One other thing to consider about hauling cars by truck OTR is the lack of sleeper cabs.  Carhaulers are special models with lower cabs and shorter hoods.  They have to be to haul as many cars as they do. None of them have sleeper cabs, other than the ones that haul a much smaller number of show/high value cars. Putting all those drivers up in motel rooms, if you can find them, really adds to the cost of business.

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 31, 2020 7:25 AM

Backshop

One other thing to consider about hauling cars by truck OTR is the lack of sleeper cabs.  Carhaulers are special models with lower cabs and shorter hoods.  They have to be to haul as many cars as they do. None of them have sleeper cabs, other than the ones that haul a much smaller number of show/high value cars. Putting all those drivers up in motel rooms, if you can find them, really adds to the cost of business.

 

Maybe in five or ten years from now nobody will be hauling cars.. the cars will be able to drive themselves to the showroom floor. 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, July 31, 2020 7:37 AM

Ulrich
Maybe in five or ten years from now nobody will be hauling cars.. the cars will be able to drive themselves to the showroom floor. 

More buggy-whip assumptions.  Five or ten years from now nobody will be wasting money on showrooms; the cars will be able to drive themselves from the factory direct to meet their new owners, like a glorified version of Enterprise pick-up service.  Or arrange for test-drive pickup... as optioned with the amenities of particular interest to a buyer.  Who needs dealers, or required stock, or shuffling cars to nonsecure lot storage, in a future beyond rail-shipping economy?

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 31, 2020 7:43 AM

Would be great to order our customized vehicles on line and then have them show up on their own in our driveways. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Friday, July 31, 2020 8:02 AM

I do not believe you will see driverless trucks, buses, or cars, on the national general highway and street system, in your lifetime.    Too many legal and safety issues. Just as the perfect laptop that never errors is still to arrive.  Automatic and self-driving operation, yes to improve safety, but still with a licensed driver on board.

 

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Friday, July 31, 2020 8:30 AM

Ulrich

Would be great to order our customized vehicles on line and then have them show up on their own in our driveways. 

I have two items on order right now that are waaaay late to be delivered and the tracking info only lists that they got shipped (different vendors, different delivery companies) last month.  It is bad enough that one of these items was $460, but if I am going to spend $20,000 to $60,000+ on a product, it had better be on display in a show room and I can drive it away myself upon payment!

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 31, 2020 9:07 AM

The service is still in its infancy.. I'm sure online shopping and delivery to your door services will improve greatly over the coming five years. It may not seem that way though because consumer expectations will continue to go up accordingly. Just look at the home pizza delivery biz.. Once upon a time we had to actually CALL the pizza joint to place an order.. now we just go online, and most places will give you a a detailed minute by minute update on how your pizza is progressing. Yet still we fret about not having it in our hands sooner.. maybe drones can get the finished product to us even faster? It will be the same with everything else. Need a new shirt? Hmm.. why isn't it here yet when I placed the order over  20 minutes ago? Among the universe of products and services that are available at our disposal nothing exists to temper consumer expectations... the better things get the more and faster we want them. 

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Posted by JPS1 on Friday, July 31, 2020 9:20 AM

Overmod
 More buggy-whip assumptions.

Two of my acquaintances have bought used cars from Carvana.  They shopped on-line, ordered what they wanted, and viola it was delivered.  Moreover, my local Toyota dealer offers the same option.  I could go on-line, pick out a vehicle, organize the details on-line or over the phone, and have the car delivered. 

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Posted by Juniata Man on Friday, July 31, 2020 9:59 AM

As much as I dislike "the dance" that's involved when walking into a dealership to purchase a new vehicle; it is incomprehensible to me to purchase a vehicle on line and have it show up in my driveway without having test driven it.  Heck; I won't even purchase a new pair of walking shoes on line as I like trying them on before buying.

And I realize cars and shoes purchased on line can be returned but, there are some things I need to actually "experience" before pulling the trigger on buying.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, July 31, 2020 10:02 AM

Right.  Why pay for all the overhead and profit margins of a middle man (dealer)?  Even now,  a large and increasing  portion of dealers' new car sales are from online. They get the vehicle you want from another dealer or the manufacturer's stock.   Fewer and fewer folks buy a car straight off the lot. 

As to the original post,  I sure see a lot of autoracks on the UP. 

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, July 31, 2020 10:19 AM

Most of the online car selling services that advertise so heavily seem to be dealing in used cars.  Picking a used car off a website seems to be a high-risk decision to me since I can't independently verify the "facts" in the attached blurb.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by SD60MAC9500 on Friday, July 31, 2020 10:25 AM
 

NorthWest

I highly recommend watching the whole presentation if you have the time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxUnryZuy8g&feature=emb_logo

Continuing the same business model will be increasingly unviable as the shipping industry trends towards smaller shipments moving shorter distances.

Shifting the business model to account for these changes is possible, however.

 

 

 

They say automotive traffic is declining.. Saying Automotive is very broad as that cover autoparts as well. I imagine their graph combine both parts and finished autos, etc, which would give trucking greater market share. Rail still dominates the market when it comes to finished autos. Autopart traffic has been on the decline in boxcar service for years this is nothing new. I'd like to see their breakdown of autoparts shipped by intermodal.

 
 
Rahhhhhhhhh!!!!
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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 31, 2020 10:47 AM

Juniata Man

As much as I dislike "the dance" that's involved when walking into a dealership to purchase a new vehicle; it is incomprehensible to me to purchase a vehicle on line and have it show up in my driveway without having test driven it.  Heck; I won't even purchase a new pair of walking shoes on line as I like trying them on before buying.

And I realize cars and shoes purchased on line can be returned but, there are some things I need to actually "experience" before pulling the trigger on buying.

 

Better return policies would fix that.. and  perhaps one would be able to take the car for a "virtual" spin before buying it.. 

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, July 31, 2020 10:53 AM

Ulrich
 
Juniata Man

As much as I dislike "the dance" that's involved when walking into a dealership to purchase a new vehicle; it is incomprehensible to me to purchase a vehicle on line and have it show up in my driveway without having test driven it.  Heck; I won't even purchase a new pair of walking shoes on line as I like trying them on before buying.

And I realize cars and shoes purchased on line can be returned but, there are some things I need to actually "experience" before pulling the trigger on buying. 

Better return policies would fix that.. and  perhaps one would be able to take the car for a "virtual" spin before buying it.. 

Virtual - as real as it may seem - IS NOT REAL

You don't get the feel of the real ergonomics from a virtual representation.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 31, 2020 11:02 AM

BaltACD

 

Not yet!. It's just a matter of time. 

 

 
Ulrich
 
Juniata Man

As much as I dislike "the dance" that's involved when walking into a dealership to purchase a new vehicle; it is incomprehensible to me to purchase a vehicle on line and have it show up in my driveway without having test driven it.  Heck; I won't even purchase a new pair of walking shoes on line as I like trying them on before buying.

And I realize cars and shoes purchased on line can be returned but, there are some things I need to actually "experience" before pulling the trigger on buying. 

Better return policies would fix that.. and  perhaps one would be able to take the car for a "virtual" spin before buying it.. 

 

Virtual - as real as it may seem - IS NOT REAL

You don't get the feel of the real ergonomics from a virtual representation.

 

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Posted by Ulrich on Friday, July 31, 2020 11:03 AM

[quote user="Balt

 

 
Ulrich
 
Juniata Man

As much as I dislike "the dance" that's involved when walking into a dealership to purchase a new vehicle; it is incomprehensible to me to purchase a vehicle on line and have it show up in my driveway without having test driven it.  Heck; I won't even purchase a new pair of walking shoes on line as I like trying them on before buying.

And I realize cars and shoes purchased on line can be returned but, there are some things I need to actually "experience" before pulling the trigger on buying. 

Better return policies would fix that.. and  perhaps one would be able to take the car for a "virtual" spin before buying it.. 

 

Virtual - as real as it may seem - IS NOT REAL

You don't get the feel of the real ergonomics from a virtual representation.

 

[/quote]

 

 

Not yet! It's just a matter of time..

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Posted by Backshop on Friday, July 31, 2020 11:03 AM

SD60MAC9500
 

 

 
NorthWest

I highly recommend watching the whole presentation if you have the time:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxUnryZuy8g&feature=emb_logo

Continuing the same business model will be increasingly unviable as the shipping industry trends towards smaller shipments moving shorter distances.

Shifting the business model to account for these changes is possible, however.

 

 

 

 

 

They say automotive traffic is declining.. Saying Automotive is very broad as that cover autoparts as well. I imagine their graph combine both parts and finished autos, etc, which would give trucking greater market share. Rail still dominates the market when it comes to finished autos. Autopart traffic has been on the decline in boxcar service for years this is nothing new. I'd like to see their breakdown of autoparts shipped by intermodal.

 
 
 

I go by the Ford Brownstown Parts Redistribution Center every day that I go to work.  Plenty of containers there.

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Posted by rdamon on Friday, July 31, 2020 11:05 AM

Look at the Tesla Model ..  show rooms in shopping areas with a few models to test drive. Then you order off a web page to have it delivered.  

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Posted by ttrraaffiicc on Friday, July 31, 2020 11:06 AM

I think one thing that is missing from the discussion here is the fact that once cars are able to drive themselves there won't be any need for autoracks as the cars can literally deliver themselves. From the looks of things, it won't be long until rail is shut out of the automotive sector entirely.

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Posted by csxns on Friday, July 31, 2020 11:12 AM

ttrraaffiicc
deliver themselves. From the looks of things, it won't be long until rail is shut out of the automotive sector entirely.

Add trucks to that if cars can deliever themselves.

Russell

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Posted by Juniata Man on Friday, July 31, 2020 1:09 PM

And when teleportation becomes available, we won't even need cars.

"Beam me up Scotty!"

 

 

csxns

 

ttrraaffiicc
deliver themselves. From the looks of things, it won't be long until rail is shut out of the automotive sector entirely.

 

Add trucks to that if cars can deliever themselves.

 

 

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