BaltACD Miningman Real or faked photo? Very real - happened near Thomasville, GA - PSR copuled a cut of loaded grain cars on the rear of a rail train (rail train cars are among the oldest the railroads own - they are not used in Interchange Service and thus can be older than FRA limits for cars used in interchange service).
Miningman Real or faked photo?
Very real - happened near Thomasville, GA - PSR copuled a cut of loaded grain cars on the rear of a rail train (rail train cars are among the oldest the railroads own - they are not used in Interchange Service and thus can be older than FRA limits for cars used in interchange service).
Johnny
tree68 Convicted One It's amazing how flexible that stuff is.
Convicted One It's amazing how flexible that stuff is.
Paul_D_North_ Jr2. No cars shall be attached to a rail train other than its own support cars and a buffer car or two. Nor shall a rail train be moved in any other train. (Wonder if the MOW people warned about this but were overruled by an upper management-type . . . Whistling .)
When I was working, BEFORE PSR, that was the train handling instructions for rail trains. Rail trains could be dobuled together but no other traffic could be handled. Of course EHH and his version of PSR viewed such restrictions as archaic.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
However, note that in the photo posted by BaltACD, the rail is bent mainly in the vertical direction. Probably what happened after the knuckle broke, the train pulled apart for a pretty good distance - certainly more than what's shown in the photo - but still moving. The rail was then hanging in mid-air, but drooping down. Then the train came partially back together ('ran-in'), which compressed and buckled the rails further downward into the shape as shown. That portion of the strings is scrap, at least.
I see that the little gremlins at Kalmbach IT are messing with the posting utility again. Can the new forum 'experience' be far away? Can't they just pay them off with saucers of warm milk or referrals to North Pole workshops or whatever, and actually hire real IT techs who can get the job finished and be done with it?
I don't think that picture reflects anything but a pull-apart in 'tension' and subsequent gravity sag of the rail 'span'. If there were substantial run-in you'd see some of those lengths bending laterally, which you yourself just established as requiring far less force, probably producing some net upward bowing of some of the upper and outer strings as a resultant -- see some of the other pictures of post-incident rail shapes in other pictures we have seen. There's also more than a little telephoto foreshortening in that image, no?
Why would vertical sag produce scrap? True, you'd do some kind of Sperry-like internal metallurgical testing to ensure there is no hidden cracking, but if it passes that test I don't see a necessary reason to reject it categorically. This ain't aerospace.
OvermodWhy would vertical sag produce scrap? True, you'd do some kind of Sperry-like internal metallurgical testing to ensure there is no hidden cracking, but if it passes that test I don't see a necessary reason to reject it categorically. This ain't aerospace.
I don't know if this was a rail train that was taking new or relay rail to be installed in track somewhere or if it was 'pick up' rail that was being taken to a rail plant or to a scrap yard. Rail does not get abandoned it place when it is removed fromtrack - scrapable rail may lay alongside the right of way for several days or weeks, however it will get picked up and moved. If going to a Rail Plant, it will get fully inspected before its ultimate disposition is made.
Convicted One Overmod Shackles. This guy here, otoh, is much less of a mystery. I can see all the points of attachment for the shackles.
Overmod Shackles.
This guy here, otoh, is much less of a mystery. I can see all the points of attachment for the shackles.
rrnut282 Convicted One Overmod Shackles. This guy here, otoh, is much less of a mystery. I can see all the points of attachment for the shackles. Precast bridge beams coming from Pre-Stressed Concrete in Decatur, IN. The truck in the previous photo could be hauling bulk shackles, not shackles installed, ready for use.
Precast bridge beams coming from Pre-Stressed Concrete in Decatur, IN. The truck in the previous photo could be hauling bulk shackles, not shackles installed, ready for use.
Several years ago I passed several trucks carrying overlength concrete beams North on I-95 in South Carolina. They were arranged such that the final wheelset on the beams were steerable with a individual having a seat, steering wheel and windbreak for his riding position. Did I mention that the temperature was in the upper 30's and it was raining. Everybody needs to have a job - that is one I would not want in those circumstance.
Convicted One Here is a picture of a neglected NS bridge in a neglected part of town. Former NYC/Fort Wayne & Jackson Still in light use, mostly as car storage. Then, less than two miles away we have this former PRR/Grand Rapids & Indiana that sits abandoned, tracks long gone, and not even a bikepath over it And then there is this bridge, Former PRR mainline,currently belongs to CSX, but the line is leased to C,F,&E and mostly used by NS as a connection between Cincinnati and Chicago. Technically a CSX bridge, but seldom, if ever used by them
Here is a picture of a neglected NS bridge in a neglected part of town. Former NYC/Fort Wayne & Jackson Still in light use, mostly as car storage.
Then, less than two miles away we have this former PRR/Grand Rapids & Indiana that sits abandoned, tracks long gone, and not even a bikepath over it
And then there is this bridge, Former PRR mainline,currently belongs to CSX, but the line is leased to C,F,&E and mostly used by NS as a connection between Cincinnati and Chicago.
Technically a CSX bridge, but seldom, if ever used by them
That last one might be one of my favorites, due to the pedestrian walkway on the right side, built like a fortress. Gee, that might be the best maintained CSX bridge in the state, and they (CSX) don't even use it.
Gee, that might be the best maintained CSX bridge in the state, and they (CSX) don't even use it.
The third view in the first post and the post above are different views of the same bridge for those playing from home and weren't sure.
Fun facts: I played a small part in putting in that "sidewalk." The steel painting came years later. I may or may not have ridden a hi-railer over that bridge as part of another project in the area. The abutments are there for three or four tracks, had two for over half a century, and now has only one track.
BaltACD rrnut282 Convicted One Overmod Shackles. This guy here, otoh, is much less of a mystery. I can see all the points of attachment for the shackles. Precast bridge beams coming from Pre-Stressed Concrete in Decatur, IN. The truck in the previous photo could be hauling bulk shackles, not shackles installed, ready for use. Several years ago I passed several trucks carrying overlength concrete beams North on I-95 in South Carolina. They were arranged such that the final wheelset on the beams were steerable with a individual having a seat, steering wheel and windbreak for his riding position. Did I mention that the temperature was in the upper 30's and it was raining. Everybody needs to have a job - that is one I would not want in those circumstance.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
rrnut282 The abutments are there for three or four tracks, had two for over half a century, and now has only one track.
Originally built in 1937, I believe. Any thoughts as to what the original intent of the expansion that never materialized, was? (lights fuse, and runs)
Convicted One rrnut282 The abutments are there for three or four tracks, had two for over half a century, and now has only one track. Originally built in 1937, I believe. Any thoughts as to what the original intent of the expansion that never materialized, was? (lights fuse, and runs)
Murphy SidingJust planning ahead for a major rails to trails project
Well, there is no shortage of theories, but that is the first time I've heard that one.
Electroliner 1935For what its worth, the CSX (former NYC, C.C.C. & St.L ) viaduct over the Miami River in Sidney OH. is slowly crumbling or spalling concrete. I can't post the pic's I took last time I was there but possibly it has been repaired since the white areas on this GOGGLE image. It is a magnificant multi-arch viaduct. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2737842,-84.1547162,3a,90y,352.82h,92.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg02Nvvpt6HT9dYlRn2Ijbg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
I've always been very fond of those open spandrel concrete arch bridges. There is a bridge very similar in design on the Big Four's old line in Putnam County Indiana.
Growning up we had a number of those style bridges for roadways, which since they were a popular way to cross utilities as well, had service portals cast in the vertical panels, allowing adventurous children to climb cell to cell in the bridge's interior, passing all the way across.
The grandaddy of them all - the Tunkhannock Viaduct (also known as the Nicholson Viaduct or Bridge):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunkhannock_Viaduct
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunkhannock_Viaduct#/media/File:Steamtown-Nicholson-Viaduct.JPG
2,375 ft. long x 240 ft. high from the creekbed, 105 years old and still in service being used by a Class 1 (NS since 2015). At the time it was built it was the largest concrete structure in the world, and I understand it's still the largest concrete bridge(however that's determined).
This site has several close-up views of the bridge;
https://www.gribblenation.org/2017/03/tunkhannock-viaduct.html?m=0
Note that each arch is two parallel arches, and there are portals in the vertical columns for access to walk across each arch for inspection and minor maintenance purposes. I'll leave the rest up to your imagination (no, I didn't do it, but I have a photo of Ken Wolfgang who did, way back when we were young [I was 14, I think] and foolish).
- PDN.
Convicted One Electroliner 1935 For what its worth, the CSX (former NYC, C.C.C. & St.L ) viaduct over the Miami River in Sidney OH. is slowly crumbling or spalling concrete. I can't post the pic's I took last time I was there but possibly it has been repaired since the white areas on this GOGGLE image. It is a magnificant multi-arch viaduct. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2737842,-84.1547162,3a,90y,352.82h,92.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg02Nvvpt6HT9dYlRn2Ijbg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664 Growning up we had a number of those style bridges for roadways, which since they were a popular way to cross utilities as well, had service portals cast in the vertical panels, allowing adventurous children to climb cell to cell in the bridge's interior, passing all the way across.
Electroliner 1935 For what its worth, the CSX (former NYC, C.C.C. & St.L ) viaduct over the Miami River in Sidney OH. is slowly crumbling or spalling concrete. I can't post the pic's I took last time I was there but possibly it has been repaired since the white areas on this GOGGLE image. It is a magnificant multi-arch viaduct. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2737842,-84.1547162,3a,90y,352.82h,92.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg02Nvvpt6HT9dYlRn2Ijbg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
https://bridgehunter.com/oh/shelby/big-four/
From the description:
"Large 5 span open-spandrel concrete arch bridge more than 200 feet tall and 400 feet long. It has crumbling concrete in spots and has been patched to repair wear and tear damage."
Elsewhere on that page it says 783 ft. long.
Bridgehunter's page on the Tunkhannock Viaduct:
https://bridgehunter.com/pa/wyoming/tunkhannock/
BaltACD A knuckle is a terrible thing to break
A knuckle is a terrible thing to break
Paul_D_North_Jr Convicted One Electroliner 1935 For what its worth, the CSX (former NYC, C.C.C. & St.L ) viaduct over the Miami River in Sidney OH. is slowly crumbling or spalling concrete. I can't post the pic's I took last time I was there but possibly it has been repaired since the white areas on this GOGGLE image. It is a magnificant multi-arch viaduct. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2737842,-84.1547162,3a,90y,352.82h,92.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg02Nvvpt6HT9dYlRn2Ijbg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664 Growning up we had a number of those style bridges for roadways, which since they were a popular way to cross utilities as well, had service portals cast in the vertical panels, allowing adventurous children to climb cell to cell in the bridge's interior, passing all the way across. Here's the link to the Bridgehunter.com webpage on the Sidney 'Big 4' bridge: https://bridgehunter.com/oh/shelby/big-four/ From the description: "Large 5 span open-spandrel concrete arch bridge more than 200 feet tall and 400 feet long. It has crumbling concrete in spots and has been patched to repair wear and tear damage." Elsewhere on that page it says 783 ft. long. Bridgehunter's page on the Tunkhannock Viaduct: https://bridgehunter.com/pa/wyoming/tunkhannock/ - PDN.
Here's the link to the Bridgehunter.com webpage on the Sidney 'Big 4' bridge:
A few miles north of Tunkahannock is the Martin's Creek, or Kingsley Viaduct, Tunkahannock's little brother. N 41.74476 W 75.75275
I was pleasantly surprised to encounter it after visiting Nicholson, then continuing north on Route 11 instead of returning to the Interstate.
Not too far further north is a closed interlocking tower, all concrete.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Paul_D_North_Jrno, I didn't do it, but I have a photo of Ken Wolfgang who did, way back when we were young [I was 14, I think] and foolish).
Both the bridge you present and the one Tree offers, are incredible structures, way beyond the scope of anything I would feel safe climbing on.
The bridges I used to climb through had exactly the opposite peril. They were of a size that the top of their arch nearly touched the bottom of the deck above. Meaning the portals one has to pass through in the center of the spans were probably no more than 14" square.
Having always been a chubby one, I used to always worry about getting stuck.
Murphy Sidingw do they go about realoading this? It looks kind if like trying to put toothepaste back in the tube.
Looks like it would be quite a challenge short of just buzzing them off and collecting the trimmings after the train is moved out.
Recovery, IMO, might be the best argument for writing it off as scrap.
Still, I wonder if it would be practical to back up an empty rail train to the one stranded, and pull each rail individually onto the empty one.
Convicted One
Murphy SidingI would think that constructing an arched concrete bridge like this would have been more expensive than a steel alternative way back then. It seems like the builders would have spent forever setting forms and pouring concrete- over the top of a river.
It is amazing how you sometimes inspire the best in me. Here is a picture of that very bridge being constructed. Note the steel bridge in the background that is being replaced. This bridge and a few carbon copies were built in the early 1920's by a group who must have had an extremely inflated self image, they engraved their names in a plethora of public works projects, assuring them a "cast in stone" legacy. This group got their names on more items than any other generation in this city's history. This particular bridge had an engraved granite panel mounted on the cement walkway that was in the neighborhood of 3 feet square, listing all their names. Making these bridges a memorial stone to the group of men behind them.
With this particular picture you may need to adjust brightness/contrast to suit, to bring out more detail.
Link to image
I believe you'll find that many of these had the arch cast on formwork on a scow or barge, which was then moved into position relative to piers and positioned with appropriate haunch loading; this was then used as structure to support the spandrel formwork and eventually the deck. Arches could be precast or sectional too.
Here is a second bridge built by the same group, same time period. Note again this bridge is also replacing a steel truss predecessor:
https://i.imgur.com/dM11Wmk.png
https://i.imgur.com/6AdvcYJ.png
And yet a 3rd bridge, same group, but slightly different design, this one you couldn't pass all the way through the interior
https://i.imgur.com/THjT5Vb.png
This may be of interest as it looks like the bridges pictured in the above photo and links. It's been buried since the early 1950s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_Street_Bridge
There was some subsidence a few years ago and someone looked in the hole and said, "There's a bridge down here!" and it got in the papers. People had forgotten about it. It's just south of Dundas Street.
I'd be tempted to do one of two things with the rail train. Both involve pulling one end out far enough to drop the rail completely off it in some controlled manner, as I doubt you could raise or block the rail to get the train recoupled under it.
One approach is to pull the end away and drop the rail, then couple additional cars to the opposite end of the standing cut and winch each string in turn until all the strings are back on.
The alternative would be to drop all the rail, to get the main open (with lots of rail on the ties and to either side) and then recouple the rail train and start recovering strings as traffic permits.
You could couple a 'third' set of rail-bearing cars at one end, then pull across, but each 'tail end' would have to be carefully accommodated. Presumably there is low enough resistance that more than one string could be pulled at a time in this case... if that is at all safe. I'd be VERY leery of stray tension built up in those dropped spans...
OvermodI believe you'll find that many of these had the arch cast on formwork on a scow or barge, which was then moved into position relative to piers and positioned with appropriate haunch loading; this was then used as structure to support the spandrel formwork and eventually the deck. Arches could be precast or sectional too.
Actually, I had a couple of long dormant brain cells suddenly sputter back to life and remembered one of the names I used to see on the builders plates of these bridges "Grosvenor".....I remembered it because as a youngster I always used to confuse the name on the plates with the editor of National Geographic. Anyway the local engineer was A.W. Grosvenor. And after doing a search for him came upon a bit more of his legacy.
He prefered the Melan rib style of reinforcement over the more common re-bar, and tended to cast-in-place over falsework.
Here is another "in progress" photo of another local bridge he designed, showing the placement of the reinforcement.
Link to photo
If you look carefully at Starrucca Viaduct, you'll note the stones sticking out from the supporting columns.
I'm pretty sure they were there to support the falsework needed to build the arches.
I remember when that dawned on me - I was rather impressed at the ingenuity. I'm sure the technique predates that viaduct, though.
Convicted One Murphy Siding I would think that constructing an arched concrete bridge like this would have been more expensive than a steel alternative way back then. It seems like the builders would have spent forever setting forms and pouring concrete- over the top of a river. It is amazing how you sometimes inspire the best in me. Here is a picture of that very bridge being constructed. Note the steel bridge in the background that is being replaced. This bridge and a few carbon copies were built in the early 1920's by a group who must have had an extremely inflated self image, they engraved their names in a plethora of public works projects, assuring them a "cast in stone" legacy. This group got their names on more items than any other generation in this city's history. This particular bridge had an engraved granite panel mounted on the cement walkway that was in the neighborhood of 3 feet square, listing all their names. Making these bridges a memorial stone to the group of men behind them. With this particular picture you may need to adjust brightness/contrast to suit, to bring out more detail. Link to image
Murphy Siding I would think that constructing an arched concrete bridge like this would have been more expensive than a steel alternative way back then. It seems like the builders would have spent forever setting forms and pouring concrete- over the top of a river.
Convicted One Overmod I believe you'll find that many of these had the arch cast on formwork on a scow or barge, which was then moved into position relative to piers and positioned with appropriate haunch loading; this was then used as structure to support the spandrel formwork and eventually the deck. Arches could be precast or sectional too. Actually, I had a couple of long dormant brain cells suddenly sputter back to life and remembered one of the names I used to see on the builders plates of these bridges "Grosvenor".....I remembered it because as a youngster I always used to confuse the name on the plates with the editor of National Geographic. Anyway the local engineer was A.W. Grosvenor. And after doing a search for him came upon a bit more of his legacy. He prefered the Melan rib style of reinforcement over the more common re-bar, and tended to cast-in-place over falsework. Here is another "in progress" photo of another local bridge he designed, showing the placement of the reinforcement. Link to photo
Overmod I believe you'll find that many of these had the arch cast on formwork on a scow or barge, which was then moved into position relative to piers and positioned with appropriate haunch loading; this was then used as structure to support the spandrel formwork and eventually the deck. Arches could be precast or sectional too.
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