Murphy Siding If PTC can tell you that you are going too fast, is it also made to have slow orders programmed in? "Hey bubb! Ease back a bit, there's a slow order just around the bend."
If PTC can tell you that you are going too fast, is it also made to have slow orders programmed in? "Hey bubb! Ease back a bit, there's a slow order just around the bend."
That, in a word, is what PTC is all about. Such changes appear on the PTC screen well ahead of the restriction, no matter what it is.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Yes, the PTC has the temporary restrictions programmed into it. The system is updated everytime the dispatcher updates the computer. We get paper bulletins issued and compare them to PTC. On those specific slows that get upgraded after so many tons have passed over them, it's not unusual to have PTC show a higher speed than what the paperwork shows.
Until the dispatcher issues the changes to us, we have to follow the slower speed listed in the paperwork.
Jeff
CShaveRR Norris, a good engineer can feel a derailment at very low speeds. We had an engineer who felt--accurately--a derailment on a hump shove, which wasn't moving faster than a walk.Another engineer was coupling a track in the yard to pull back over the hump. "I think we've got something on the ground here." He was instructed to pull them back anyway. It took a bit of power, but he was able to yank them out. That was one track--and part of a lead--that couldn't be used for a while!
Norris, a good engineer can feel a derailment at very low speeds. We had an engineer who felt--accurately--a derailment on a hump shove, which wasn't moving faster than a walk.Another engineer was coupling a track in the yard to pull back over the hump. "I think we've got something on the ground here." He was instructed to pull them back anyway. It took a bit of power, but he was able to yank them out. That was one track--and part of a lead--that couldn't be used for a while!
Johnny
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
The BNSF line past our lumberyard must have a slow order just north of us. The trains come through now at what looks like a brisk, walking pace. I happened to be out back yesterday and time a unit grain train going by in just under 5 minutes. I wondered if there have been any major derailments of a train moving over a slow order spot of track. My guess would be no, I'd think whoever is making that decision is going to err on the side of safety. Would an engineer be more or less likely to feel a train on the ground at lower speeds?
Electroliner 1935So YES, Larry, the concept goes back a long way.
tree68If you look carefully at Starrucca Viaduct, you'll note the stones sticking out from the supporting columns. I'm pretty sure they were there to support the falsework needed to build the arches. I remember when that dawned on me - I was rather impressed at the ingenuity. I'm sure the technique predates that viaduct, though.
When my wife & I took a trip to France about 15 years ago, we included a stop in Arles Fr and I spent a day driving in the country and we saw the Pont de Gard Roman Aqueduct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pont_du_Gard
It was built in the period of 40–60 AD to supply water to Nîmes. It has projecting bricks or stones to support scaffolding during construction.
So YES, Larry, the concept goes back a long way.
Murphy Siding 54light15 This may be of interest as it looks like the bridges pictured in the above photo and links. It's been buried since the early 1950s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_Street_Bridge There was some subsidence a few years ago and someone looked in the hole and said, "There's a bridge down here!" and it got in the papers. People had forgotten about it. It's just south of Dundas Street. Here's a quote from the linked article that made me laugh. I'm envisioning an episode of This is your life! " once spanned over Garrison Creek valley (the actual creek disappeared as brick sewer in 1885". It looks like a pretty good sized bridge to be replace by simply making the creek into a brick sewer.
54light15 This may be of interest as it looks like the bridges pictured in the above photo and links. It's been buried since the early 1950s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_Street_Bridge There was some subsidence a few years ago and someone looked in the hole and said, "There's a bridge down here!" and it got in the papers. People had forgotten about it. It's just south of Dundas Street.
This may be of interest as it looks like the bridges pictured in the above photo and links. It's been buried since the early 1950s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_Street_Bridge
There was some subsidence a few years ago and someone looked in the hole and said, "There's a bridge down here!" and it got in the papers. People had forgotten about it. It's just south of Dundas Street.
Here's a quote from the linked article that made me laugh. I'm envisioning an episode of This is your life! " once spanned over Garrison Creek valley (the actual creek disappeared as brick sewer in 1885". It looks like a pretty good sized bridge to be replace by simply making the creek into a brick sewer.
The Western Maryland did a similar thing with its crossing of Gwynns Falls - a stream in Owings Mills, MD. Made a fill out of a bridge over the stream and installed a culvert to handle the water. All was good until Hurricane Agnes in June of 1972 - water backed up behind the fill to the point that it totally washed out the fill which then swept across Reisterstown Road - sweeping away a mother and daughter in the car operating on the road (I believe they were found 8 or 9 months later somewhere along the Chesapeake Bay.
After Agnes the right of way was rebuilt with a bridge spanning the stream.
Underestimating the flow of streams that get hidden in culverts or other underground means of carrying the water creates catastrophic issues when the 1000 year storm happens twice in three years - Think Ellicott City, MD.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Convicted One Overmod I believe you'll find that many of these had the arch cast on formwork on a scow or barge, which was then moved into position relative to piers and positioned with appropriate haunch loading; this was then used as structure to support the spandrel formwork and eventually the deck. Arches could be precast or sectional too. Actually, I had a couple of long dormant brain cells suddenly sputter back to life and remembered one of the names I used to see on the builders plates of these bridges "Grosvenor".....I remembered it because as a youngster I always used to confuse the name on the plates with the editor of National Geographic. Anyway the local engineer was A.W. Grosvenor. And after doing a search for him came upon a bit more of his legacy. He prefered the Melan rib style of reinforcement over the more common re-bar, and tended to cast-in-place over falsework. Here is another "in progress" photo of another local bridge he designed, showing the placement of the reinforcement. Link to photo
Overmod I believe you'll find that many of these had the arch cast on formwork on a scow or barge, which was then moved into position relative to piers and positioned with appropriate haunch loading; this was then used as structure to support the spandrel formwork and eventually the deck. Arches could be precast or sectional too.
Actually, I had a couple of long dormant brain cells suddenly sputter back to life and remembered one of the names I used to see on the builders plates of these bridges "Grosvenor".....I remembered it because as a youngster I always used to confuse the name on the plates with the editor of National Geographic. Anyway the local engineer was A.W. Grosvenor. And after doing a search for him came upon a bit more of his legacy.
He prefered the Melan rib style of reinforcement over the more common re-bar, and tended to cast-in-place over falsework.
Here is another "in progress" photo of another local bridge he designed, showing the placement of the reinforcement.
Link to photo
Convicted One Murphy Siding I would think that constructing an arched concrete bridge like this would have been more expensive than a steel alternative way back then. It seems like the builders would have spent forever setting forms and pouring concrete- over the top of a river. It is amazing how you sometimes inspire the best in me. Here is a picture of that very bridge being constructed. Note the steel bridge in the background that is being replaced. This bridge and a few carbon copies were built in the early 1920's by a group who must have had an extremely inflated self image, they engraved their names in a plethora of public works projects, assuring them a "cast in stone" legacy. This group got their names on more items than any other generation in this city's history. This particular bridge had an engraved granite panel mounted on the cement walkway that was in the neighborhood of 3 feet square, listing all their names. Making these bridges a memorial stone to the group of men behind them. With this particular picture you may need to adjust brightness/contrast to suit, to bring out more detail. Link to image
Murphy Siding I would think that constructing an arched concrete bridge like this would have been more expensive than a steel alternative way back then. It seems like the builders would have spent forever setting forms and pouring concrete- over the top of a river.
It is amazing how you sometimes inspire the best in me. Here is a picture of that very bridge being constructed. Note the steel bridge in the background that is being replaced. This bridge and a few carbon copies were built in the early 1920's by a group who must have had an extremely inflated self image, they engraved their names in a plethora of public works projects, assuring them a "cast in stone" legacy. This group got their names on more items than any other generation in this city's history. This particular bridge had an engraved granite panel mounted on the cement walkway that was in the neighborhood of 3 feet square, listing all their names. Making these bridges a memorial stone to the group of men behind them.
With this particular picture you may need to adjust brightness/contrast to suit, to bring out more detail.
Link to image
If you look carefully at Starrucca Viaduct, you'll note the stones sticking out from the supporting columns.
I'm pretty sure they were there to support the falsework needed to build the arches.
I remember when that dawned on me - I was rather impressed at the ingenuity. I'm sure the technique predates that viaduct, though.
OvermodI believe you'll find that many of these had the arch cast on formwork on a scow or barge, which was then moved into position relative to piers and positioned with appropriate haunch loading; this was then used as structure to support the spandrel formwork and eventually the deck. Arches could be precast or sectional too.
I'd be tempted to do one of two things with the rail train. Both involve pulling one end out far enough to drop the rail completely off it in some controlled manner, as I doubt you could raise or block the rail to get the train recoupled under it.
One approach is to pull the end away and drop the rail, then couple additional cars to the opposite end of the standing cut and winch each string in turn until all the strings are back on.
The alternative would be to drop all the rail, to get the main open (with lots of rail on the ties and to either side) and then recouple the rail train and start recovering strings as traffic permits.
You could couple a 'third' set of rail-bearing cars at one end, then pull across, but each 'tail end' would have to be carefully accommodated. Presumably there is low enough resistance that more than one string could be pulled at a time in this case... if that is at all safe. I'd be VERY leery of stray tension built up in those dropped spans...
Here is a second bridge built by the same group, same time period. Note again this bridge is also replacing a steel truss predecessor:
https://i.imgur.com/dM11Wmk.png
https://i.imgur.com/6AdvcYJ.png
And yet a 3rd bridge, same group, but slightly different design, this one you couldn't pass all the way through the interior
https://i.imgur.com/THjT5Vb.png
Murphy SidingI would think that constructing an arched concrete bridge like this would have been more expensive than a steel alternative way back then. It seems like the builders would have spent forever setting forms and pouring concrete- over the top of a river.
I believe you'll find that many of these had the arch cast on formwork on a scow or barge, which was then moved into position relative to piers and positioned with appropriate haunch loading; this was then used as structure to support the spandrel formwork and eventually the deck. Arches could be precast or sectional too.
Convicted One
Murphy Sidingw do they go about realoading this? It looks kind if like trying to put toothepaste back in the tube.
Looks like it would be quite a challenge short of just buzzing them off and collecting the trimmings after the train is moved out.
Recovery, IMO, might be the best argument for writing it off as scrap.
Still, I wonder if it would be practical to back up an empty rail train to the one stranded, and pull each rail individually onto the empty one.
Paul_D_North_Jrno, I didn't do it, but I have a photo of Ken Wolfgang who did, way back when we were young [I was 14, I think] and foolish).
Both the bridge you present and the one Tree offers, are incredible structures, way beyond the scope of anything I would feel safe climbing on.
The bridges I used to climb through had exactly the opposite peril. They were of a size that the top of their arch nearly touched the bottom of the deck above. Meaning the portals one has to pass through in the center of the spans were probably no more than 14" square.
Having always been a chubby one, I used to always worry about getting stuck.
A few miles north of Tunkahannock is the Martin's Creek, or Kingsley Viaduct, Tunkahannock's little brother. N 41.74476 W 75.75275
I was pleasantly surprised to encounter it after visiting Nicholson, then continuing north on Route 11 instead of returning to the Interstate.
Not too far further north is a closed interlocking tower, all concrete.
Paul_D_North_Jr Convicted One Electroliner 1935 For what its worth, the CSX (former NYC, C.C.C. & St.L ) viaduct over the Miami River in Sidney OH. is slowly crumbling or spalling concrete. I can't post the pic's I took last time I was there but possibly it has been repaired since the white areas on this GOGGLE image. It is a magnificant multi-arch viaduct. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2737842,-84.1547162,3a,90y,352.82h,92.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg02Nvvpt6HT9dYlRn2Ijbg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664 Growning up we had a number of those style bridges for roadways, which since they were a popular way to cross utilities as well, had service portals cast in the vertical panels, allowing adventurous children to climb cell to cell in the bridge's interior, passing all the way across. Here's the link to the Bridgehunter.com webpage on the Sidney 'Big 4' bridge: https://bridgehunter.com/oh/shelby/big-four/ From the description: "Large 5 span open-spandrel concrete arch bridge more than 200 feet tall and 400 feet long. It has crumbling concrete in spots and has been patched to repair wear and tear damage." Elsewhere on that page it says 783 ft. long. Bridgehunter's page on the Tunkhannock Viaduct: https://bridgehunter.com/pa/wyoming/tunkhannock/ - PDN.
Convicted One Electroliner 1935 For what its worth, the CSX (former NYC, C.C.C. & St.L ) viaduct over the Miami River in Sidney OH. is slowly crumbling or spalling concrete. I can't post the pic's I took last time I was there but possibly it has been repaired since the white areas on this GOGGLE image. It is a magnificant multi-arch viaduct. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2737842,-84.1547162,3a,90y,352.82h,92.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg02Nvvpt6HT9dYlRn2Ijbg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664 Growning up we had a number of those style bridges for roadways, which since they were a popular way to cross utilities as well, had service portals cast in the vertical panels, allowing adventurous children to climb cell to cell in the bridge's interior, passing all the way across.
Electroliner 1935 For what its worth, the CSX (former NYC, C.C.C. & St.L ) viaduct over the Miami River in Sidney OH. is slowly crumbling or spalling concrete. I can't post the pic's I took last time I was there but possibly it has been repaired since the white areas on this GOGGLE image. It is a magnificant multi-arch viaduct. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2737842,-84.1547162,3a,90y,352.82h,92.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg02Nvvpt6HT9dYlRn2Ijbg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
Growning up we had a number of those style bridges for roadways, which since they were a popular way to cross utilities as well, had service portals cast in the vertical panels, allowing adventurous children to climb cell to cell in the bridge's interior, passing all the way across.
Here's the link to the Bridgehunter.com webpage on the Sidney 'Big 4' bridge:
https://bridgehunter.com/oh/shelby/big-four/
From the description:
"Large 5 span open-spandrel concrete arch bridge more than 200 feet tall and 400 feet long. It has crumbling concrete in spots and has been patched to repair wear and tear damage."
Elsewhere on that page it says 783 ft. long.
Bridgehunter's page on the Tunkhannock Viaduct:
https://bridgehunter.com/pa/wyoming/tunkhannock/
- PDN.
BaltACD A knuckle is a terrible thing to break
A knuckle is a terrible thing to break
The grandaddy of them all - the Tunkhannock Viaduct (also known as the Nicholson Viaduct or Bridge):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunkhannock_Viaduct
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunkhannock_Viaduct#/media/File:Steamtown-Nicholson-Viaduct.JPG
2,375 ft. long x 240 ft. high from the creekbed, 105 years old and still in service being used by a Class 1 (NS since 2015). At the time it was built it was the largest concrete structure in the world, and I understand it's still the largest concrete bridge(however that's determined).
This site has several close-up views of the bridge;
https://www.gribblenation.org/2017/03/tunkhannock-viaduct.html?m=0
Note that each arch is two parallel arches, and there are portals in the vertical columns for access to walk across each arch for inspection and minor maintenance purposes. I'll leave the rest up to your imagination (no, I didn't do it, but I have a photo of Ken Wolfgang who did, way back when we were young [I was 14, I think] and foolish).
Electroliner 1935For what its worth, the CSX (former NYC, C.C.C. & St.L ) viaduct over the Miami River in Sidney OH. is slowly crumbling or spalling concrete. I can't post the pic's I took last time I was there but possibly it has been repaired since the white areas on this GOGGLE image. It is a magnificant multi-arch viaduct. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.2737842,-84.1547162,3a,90y,352.82h,92.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg02Nvvpt6HT9dYlRn2Ijbg!2e0!7i3328!8i1664
I've always been very fond of those open spandrel concrete arch bridges. There is a bridge very similar in design on the Big Four's old line in Putnam County Indiana.
Murphy SidingJust planning ahead for a major rails to trails project
Well, there is no shortage of theories, but that is the first time I've heard that one.
Convicted One rrnut282 The abutments are there for three or four tracks, had two for over half a century, and now has only one track. Originally built in 1937, I believe. Any thoughts as to what the original intent of the expansion that never materialized, was? (lights fuse, and runs)
rrnut282 The abutments are there for three or four tracks, had two for over half a century, and now has only one track.
Originally built in 1937, I believe. Any thoughts as to what the original intent of the expansion that never materialized, was? (lights fuse, and runs)
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