tree68 Murphy Siding Are you meaning visibly sagging in the middle like the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile? I believe they're built that way. Any sag would be virtually undetectable. They're not like the highway flatbeds with the curve built in.
Murphy Siding Are you meaning visibly sagging in the middle like the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile?
I believe they're built that way. Any sag would be virtually undetectable. They're not like the highway flatbeds with the curve built in.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Masters of metal working can get it to do just about anything they want it to do.
The following video is about working aluminum for a car - similar things can be done in fabricating steel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hR8AvJjMXyg
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Murphy SidingI'm not sure how you would build camber into a tank car.
The most likely would be to assemble the shell from a series of 'rings', each with slightly different facial angles. Like assembling part of a very large radius torus. A different approach can be seen with Amfleet cars (which can be thought of as a constructed 'tube' and were built with substantial visible camber)
But these tank cars aren't showing camber -- if they were, the 'empties' would visibly bow upward and the cars would run visibly 'flat' when loaded. That being the whole point of camber in the first place. Visible "sag" is almost always, as noted, intentional in the car design to make gravity unloading quicker or more positive, especially for viscous product. Part of the 'key' here is that the portions of car either side are visibly straight; this is not a continuous 'swayback' as progressive fatigue might produce.
That's not to say that a given observer might not be able to discriminate fine deflection between empty and loaded examples of the same car series. I would think, however, that anyone who can't 'tell' from the spring deflection would be able to 'tell' more from tank deflection...
Hey Murphy, why don't you go out into your yard and take some photos of the bolster and springs of one of the lumber cars in both the loaded and unloaded condition, and post or link to the photos here? Or measure the distance from the top of the opening to the top of the bolster at all 4 places (1 each side of each truck) and average them for each condition, and post those figures here?
The distance the bolster 'sinks' depresses the springs in the loaded condition vs. unloaded has to be limited to only a couple inches (can't recall the exact number). The reason is that AAR has specs for the tolerances of the coupler height above the rails (also taking into account the physical wear of various parts). That's so that the couplers don't inadvertently get mismatched so badly that they separate. The worst case scenario would be an unloaded car with a new coupler and draft gear (high) coupled to a loaded car with a badly worn coupler shank and draft gear (low), going over a sharp summit vertical curve.
- PDN.
As luck would have it, we got two cars in yesterday. The guys probably thought I was crazy, walking around with my tape measure and taking pictures. I probably am.
Paul_D_North_JrHey Murphy, why don't you go out into your yard and take some photos of the bolster and springs of one of the lumber cars in both the loaded and unloaded condition, and post or link to the photos here? Or measure the distance from the top of the opening to the top of the bolster at all 4 places (1 each side of each truck) and average them for each condition, and post those figures here? The distance the bolster 'sinks' depresses the springs in the loaded condition vs. unloaded has to be limited to only a couple inches (can't recall the exact number). The reason is that AAR has specs for the tolerances of the coupler height above the rails (also taking into account the physical wear of various parts). That's so that the couplers don't inadvertently get mismatched so badly that they separate. The worst case scenario would be an unloaded car with a new coupler and draft gear (high) coupled to a loaded car with a badly worn coupler shank and draft gear (low), going over a sharp summit vertical curve. - PDN.
In real railroading - Hi-Lo couplings still occasionally end up 'uncoupled' with the knuckles on the adjoining cars still closed. It isn't frequent, but it still happens - most commonly caused by either a severly worn or nearly broken 'carrier iron' - the iron that the coupler shank rests upon.
I saw the last car of a train of empty auto-carriers slip over the previous car's coupler and disconnect. The train was traveling quite fast for the "ski jump" grade crossing and each car was going an inch or so airborne going over the grade crossing, but still coming back down on the rails.
I had my radio scanner on and had heard about a train waiting to enter the main right after this train had passed. Someone on that train said, in a low voice as if the dispatcher would not hear him, "Keep 'em on the rails."
No sooner had he said that, but I witness the train separate at the last car.
The 2nd to last car sunk on the springs when it came down, just as the last car was going up. The coupler on the last car slipped over the coupler of the car ahead. The glad hands separated and the whole train went into emergency.
It took some distance for the train to come to a stop, but that last car really threw the sparks as the wheels locked up and it slid on the rails. It all happened so fast it took me a moment to really realize what I had just witnessed right in front of me.
The train came to a stop about 1/2 mile away and the car slid almost up to it.
Someone from the other train called over the radio, "Your train separated." and the other train responded, "Yes, I know!"
Someone from the other train went out to open the couplers, inspect everything and then protect the backup move of the train to retrieve the car, and connect the air hoses.
It went on and the other train took the main going the other way.
Exciting!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Sounds like that last car might have had some pretty flat wheels!
Many bottom discharge tank cars are constructed with a sag in the center to aid in unloading.
MikeInPlano Many bottom discharge tank cars are constructed with a sag in the center to aid in unloading. And here I thought tank cars were unloaded from the top by sticking a garden hose in that hole and sucking on it to start a siphon.
And here I thought tank cars were unloaded from the top by sticking a garden hose in that hole and sucking on it to start a siphon.
No ethanol mix for my mowers and chain saws
blue streak 1No ethanol mix for my mowers and chain saws
Using ethanol 'enhanced' gas in season is not a real issue. Letting ethanol enhanced fuel stay in the engine during the season of no use is the problem. Ethanol his hydroscopic - it will steal water from the air, over time and the water air and fuel will create corrosion in passages in the carburetor on the equipment, also over time the ethanol will deteriorate any rubber hoses it comes in contact with.
In recent years I have had success in running my lawn mowers' engine and fuel system out of fuel after making the last cutting of the season. Starting the new mowing year with fresh fuel.
I also found that squirrels in my area love to chew on a plastic gas can that is left outdoors - to the extent they chewed through the handle on mine. I store the riding mower outside and keep it covered by a Northern Tool sourced lawn mower cover and also keep the fuel outside. I also use a 2 amp battery charger that is connected to a timer that allows the charger to operate for about 30 minutes (or the lowest value I can set on the timer) for each day - that doesn't overcharge and 'cook' the battery. While I had to put a battery in the mower last year (2019) the prior battery was from 2011.
Getting back to ethanol on rail, the local plant here was sold to Valero last year. It hasn't produced a batch since. Traffic out the back window went from two daily switches from the local plus 3 or more unit trains per month to the local stopping maybe once a week to switch cars in/out of storage. The plant has 8 tracks capable of around 100 cars each. Other plants in the area still seem to be in operation, as I still see a tank train every other week go by.
On the other topic, I bought gas for $1.16 two weeks ago, now it's $1.69 for some reason.
rrnut282Getting back to ethanol on rail, the local plant here was sold to Valero last year. It hasn't produced a batch since. Traffic out the back window went from two daily switches from the local plus 3 or more unit trains per month to the local stopping maybe once a week to switch cars in/out of storage. The plant has 8 tracks capable of around 100 cars each. Other plants in the area still seem to be in operation, as I still see a tank train every other week go by. On the other topic, I bought gas for $1.16 two weeks ago, now it's $1.69 for some reason.
If there is a glut of crude - it is because that crude is not being refined into all the normal commercial products. One of those commerical products is gasoline that gets blended with ethanol to be sold to the public.
Public consumption of gasoline is down, so therefore the need for ethanol is down.
Supply and demand manifest themselves in many different ways.
The glut of crude doesn't explain the price jump. An over-supply drops prices, usually. Crude futures actually went negative for the first time in history.
As for the refineries, they output kerosene, jet A, diesel, gasoline, and lighter products. Not much demand for kerosene these days, except for space heaters. Jets are parked in record numbers, so jet fuel is piling up. Diesel is the only bright spot as trucks, railroads, the Navy, and farmers are still chugging along near normal levels. Gasoline supplies are backing up as many people are getting weeks per gallon performance out of their cars.
As for the ethanol plant, letting so many small refineries off the hook dropped demand for ethanol. Corn prices have also cratered (according so some here locally) as the plant is no longer buying large amounts. This was before the demands to shelter in place for Covid 19 dropped the demand for gas whether it was blended with ethanol or not. This hurts more than the railroad.
rrnut282The glut of crude doesn't explain the price jump. An over-supply drops prices, usually. Crude futures actually went negative for the first time in history.
I have given up on trying to reconcile retail gas prices with anything that happens. When I see happenings that I think should raise prices - they remain constant or go down. When I see things that should decrease prices they go up. Speculators and reality don't exist in the same world.
BaltACDI have given up on trying to reconcile retail gas prices with anything that happens.
I always like the stock market reports with changing oil prices.
When the price of oil goes down, the market goes lower because of falling oil company profits.
When the price of oil goes up, the market goes lower because other companies will have to pay more for energy.
York1 John
BaltACDI have given up on trying to reconcile retail gas prices with anything that happens. When I see happenings that I think should raise prices - they remain constant or go down. When I see things that should decrease prices they go up. Speculators and reality don't exist in the same world.
I was told by a convenience store owner that you're paying for their next load of gas, not their last.
Of course, when I worked at a party store (liquor & beer), the state was the wholesaler. If the store owners were notified that prices were going up, they'd stock up before the increase and enjoy the windfall. If prices were going down, they'd nearly empty their shelves before buying more.
That same convenience store owner told me that if he tried to bump his pump price up a penny, his wholesale price would go up a penny, too. The gas companies set the price...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Back in the 70's, if the oil companies needed to raise the price of gasoline to cover their costs, no matter what they did, people complained.
So they learned to raise it by twice the amount they needed to. There would be a ruckus and people would hate the oil companies and Congress would eventually begin to make noises of investigating what is going on. Just before Congress would convene the committee to start gathering evidence and testimony, the oil companies would cut that increase by 1/2 and everybody would praise the oil companies for it.
e.g.: They needed a $0.25 increase, so they would raise it $0.50 for 3 weeks or so, then lower it by $0.25, to where they wanted it in the first place. In the end Congress did nothing (as per usual), the oil companies looked like the heros and the people were glad to be paying ONLY $0.25 more. The oil companies also reaped the windfall of the double-high prices for a few weeks.
It worked very well several times.
tree68I was told by a convenience store owner that you're paying for their next load of gas, not their last.
Until the wholesale price drops; then you're paying for 'the gas he bought' until it's gone.
Or until the guy on the opposite corner breaks discipline and drops his price.
My wife's father, who ran convenience stores for many years, pointed out that gas sales are often treated as a 'loss leader' to get people into the store to buy snacks, beer, etc. where the real profits are to be had. Gas companies set the price, but they don't set it relative to where individual stations sell it. A dirty little secret, at least in New Jersey and in the Memphis area, is that most of the gas, branded or nonbranded, comes from the same cuts at the same refineries; only the perception is different. On the other hand, there are some branded stations that routinely have a higher perceivable 'quality' in their grades ... and those I patronize regardless of a few cents' potential difference.
The story depends on which load costs more. Current or Future ...
Overmod A dirty little secret, at least in New Jersey and in the Memphis area, is that most of the gas, branded or nonbranded, comes from the same cuts at the same refineries; only the perception is different.
A story from years ago - I think it was a Readers Digest column filler.
Two gas station owners on opposite corners in town were always having price wars, bragging about their gas while putting down the other fellow's gas, etc.
Early one morning (a la "oh dark thirty) a resident happened to be up and around and watched as the fuel truck pulled into town, went to one of the two stations to fill up the tanks, then drove across the intersection and filled up the other station's tanks.
Who knew?
rdamon The story depends on which load costs more. Current or Future ...
The answer is, "Yes".
Totally believable. Around here, I've observed that the trailers of most of the gasoline wholesalers are marked with their own name, not that of one of the various gasoline brands.
Way back in the last millenium, when I was just a teen, there were two gas stations across the street from each other that would once a month have a "Gas war". Each had a blackboard easel on which they chalk the price. I was driving my parents car back home one evening and made the mistake of taking the street they were on during one of their skirmishes. The police were there directing traffic, forcing cars from both directions to take turns entering the station with the lowest price at the moment.
I wanted to just get past since I had spent all but 30 cents of my money for the week, so since they were presently directing traffic into the station on my side of the street I turned on my left turn signal and pulled into the lane closest to the middle on my side so I could bypass the cars in line in the curb lane.
But my turn signal didn't click off and I didn't notice it. When I got to the policeman directing traffic, he stood right in front of me and pointed at the drive of the station on the other side of the street. I then realized my turn signal was still on and he thought I wanted to buy gas at the station on the other side of the street. My being a new driver, afraid of not obeying a police officer, I turned into the drive and stopped at the pump.
Now, my Dad never "filled the tank" unless we were on vacation. He would only ask the attendant for "a dollar's worth" once a week or so, which would amount to maybe 4 or 5 gallons. He had purchased gas that afternoon on the way home from work, so the tank was not empty... thankfully, since all I had was 30 cents, and the owner had just chalked up a new price... 10 cents per gallon!
I apologized to the owner for having only 30 cents, but that was all he could squeeze in anyway.
When I got home I told Dad that since I had been burning his gas, I wanted to repay him and so I had filled the tank. I scored big points with him and he was all prepared to give me a dollar for it... until I told him what it really cost me. We had a good laugh about it... but come to think of it, he didn't even give me the 30 cents!
Semper Vaporo rdamon The story depends on which load costs more. Current or Future ... The answer is, "Yes".
More appropriately that answer is which 'story' is being publicized in the media. If the 'story' alludes to constrained availability prices are raised - despite what the last tank load cost. If the 'story' tends that the country is awash in supply, the price will be based on the cost of the last tank load - unless tank loads are on a unbreakable schedule and the outlet isn't selling enough product to be able to receive the next tank load.
Some time back, during one of the times gas prices were spiking, the newspaper would have a story about why prices were high. One week the article said one of the reasons was that prices were tied to what a barrel of Brent crude oil was selling for. A week later when prices went up some more, there was another article. It was about the same with one slight difference, the price was tied to a barrel of West Texas Intermediate crude oil.
Jeff
Ventilator construction has to be done in accordance with FDA regulations relating to quality, training, bacteria control, and final inspection.
The consequences of messing up any one of these things can be fatal.
Kevin
Atlantic and HiberniaVentilator construction has to be done in accordance with FDA regulations relating to quality, training, bacteria control, and final inspection. The consequences of messing up any one of these things can be fatal.
That's just the bare beginning of the issue. None of these ad hoc bridge ventilator projects have even a modicum of real safety to ARDS-affected lungs. And even the 'real' ventilators, run by 'real' professionals, have an over 80% established death rate.
(I think this is posted in the wrong thread - perhaps intended to go in the 'Over-reactin' discussion.)
How the heck did we get from ethanol, oil, and gas to ventilators???
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.