We usually see 2-3 trains during the day on BNSF past my place of work. Today there were 3 between 8:00 am and 11:00. All three were long unit trains of empty ethanol tank cars heading back to their home planets. There are half a dozen ethanol plants within 50 miles of me. This afternoon I read that because of COVID-19, ... economy...blah blah blah, Poet was temporarily shutting down 3 ethanol plants, including the one at Chancellor, S.D., 25 miles down the line. Our gas prices are currently about $1.69. I saw gas last week in N.W. Iowa at $1.56 a gallon. I know that ethanol thrives when gas prices are high. Is ethanol in trouble?
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Meme recently seen on FB: How many weeks per gallon are you getting?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Murphy SidingThis afternoon I read that because of COVID-19, ... economy...blah blah blah, Poet was temporarily shutting down 3 ethanol plants, including the one at Chancellor, S.D., 25 miles down the line. Our gas prices are currently about $1.69. I saw gas last week in N.W. Iowa at $1.56 a gallon. I know that ethanol thrives when gas prices are high.
There's a lesson in this somewhere. Throughout the United States, ethanol is now a 'key' health material, one of the better viral disinfectants (at about 78%) -- yet is unavailable even to essential businesses without a great deal of under-the-table convincing and haggling. Even isopropanol has become a scarce and likely price-gouged material.
And yet we hear there's no point in continuing to produce it, even though I suspect the output of at least one of those plants could easily be sold into the current market at what are likely the highest margins in many years for industrial alcohol.
Makes me wonder who is setting the policies/incentives and watching the logistics in this evolving 'situation'. (Meanwhile people volunteering to help with ventilator fabrication get no offers ... but it seems there's plenty of demand fabricating better corpse-handling machinery. It would be hard to make this stuff up.)
This was in my little town's paper this morning. It was an e-edition, so I couldn't copy it, and it's a pay site, so I just took some screen shots. Sorry.
Anyway, the ethanol plants are working with the University of Nebraska to produce sanitizer.
York1 John
In Michigan they closed the bars and dine-in restaurants, and craft distilleries are using their excess alcohol to make hand sanitizer.
MidlandMike In Michigan they closed the bars and dine-in restaurants, and craft distilleries are using their excess alcohol to make hand sanitizer.
Same here in my area. There's two quart bottles of "moonshine" at the fire station, plainly marked "food grade sanitizer..."
York1 This was in my little town's paper this morning. It was an e-edition, so I couldn't copy it, and it's a pay site, so I just took some screen shots. Sorry. Anyway, the ethanol plants are working with the University of Nebraska to produce sanitizer.
Murph, it sounds like you know the turf and the situation, so I don't doubt they are empties.
But I'm curious: can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it?
And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers.
Lithonia OperatorMurph, it sounds like you know the turf and the situation, so I don't doubt they are empties. But I'm curious: can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers.
The biggest 'tell' is knowing traffic patterns. If you get close enough to view the spings on the car you can see them more compressed on a load than they are on a empty. If you have a fine ear you can hear a different sound between loads and empties as sound waves resonate differently between loaded and empty cars. The third way is to listen to the wheel/rail interface in the track structure - you hear sounds in the track structure created by the additional weight.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
samfp1943..." a tip of 'Jack' with water by it, was a drink of choice. Then my doctor, said it was bad for me, and it would do ugly things to my body...
The greatest source of the 'ugliness' is the congeners, including the fusel oils. Of course, some of them produce the particular flavor of particular favorite wee drams.
Just as we have Neurosine as a deprecated indication of the medical value of C. sativa, we have a book published in the late '40s on the health and medical benefits of beverage alcohol. It is probably far from the inevitable wicked evil so many busybodies over the years have made it out to be, although if you truly want a headache work your way through the thirty-odd specific and often contradictory effects alcohol has on the human body...
Meanwhile -- I have never entirely understood why fundamentalist Christians try to be teetotalers. What the Bible says is essentially in line with STRONG drink being a mocker; moderation is a different thing entirely. Then your believers have to get around what was being served in the upper room the night of Gethsemane ... it sure wasn't Welch's.
Of course you can reasonably tell if theology has been doctored by a particular sect when you hear some of the frankly remarkable excuses for Christ's first miracle. Some of them are more than a little reminiscent of Clinton's 'I never inhaled'...
Quoting Overmod: " What the Bible says is essentially in line with STRONG drink being a mocker;..."
Some wine may seem strong to some, but Proverbs, chapter 20, verse 1, says, "Wine is a mocker; strong drink is raging (or a brawler), and whoever is led astray by it is not wise."
Did you ever read My Talks with Dean Spanley by Lord Dunsany? Under the influence of Tokay wine, the good dean would recount tales of his life as a dog.
Yes, we should be moderate in our use of ethanol in all of the carriers.
Johnny
BaltACD Lithonia Operator Murph, it sounds like you know the turf and the situation, so I don't doubt they are empties. But I'm curious: can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers. The biggest 'tell' is knowing traffic patterns. If you get close enough to view the spings on the car you can see them more compressed on a load than they are on a empty. If you have a fine ear you can hear a different sound between loads and empties as sound waves resonate differently between loaded and empty cars. The third way is to listen to the wheel/rail interface in the track structure - you hear sounds in the track structure created by the additional weight.
Lithonia Operator Murph, it sounds like you know the turf and the situation, so I don't doubt they are empties. But I'm curious: can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers.
Murphy S.
Take from me; Your hearing will be more and more of a problem... It will get better; when your wife tells you to go get hearing aids- or she orders you a set from Amazon ! As your hearing gets better, it will; be a very high pitched sound relaying the above information...
Lithonia Operatorcan you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers.
You can tell when looking at the side of the wheels/bogey/truck (whatever you want to call it) On top of the springs is a box girder that is the cross member from one side of the truck to the other. The car is setting on that member, free to pivot on it at the center. The ends of that member are setting on the springs that are setting on the lower portion of the side frame. The wheels are on the axle that the side frame is resting on.
The weight bearing path, from the rail to the car is, wheels, axle, side frame, springs, cross member, car pivot point.
But back to that girder/cross member. It is usually divided into two sections across its length by a vertical web. So, from the end, what you see is two rectangles next to each other, sharing one side in the center (that web). That cross member is free to move up and down inside the side frame in the area occupied by the springs and the cross member (or maybe the side frame is free to move vertically around the cross member, depending on how you want to consider it). The area below the cross member is filled by the springs, but above the cross member is free space that is about the same size and shape as the end of the cross member.
Compare the height of the cross member to the space above it.
When the car is empty that space will be slightly smaller (in height) than the height of the cross member and when the car is fully loaded that space will be slightly taller than the cross member (the springs being compressed). Careful compareson of the height of those two rectangular spaces will give you some idea of whether the car is full or empty.
It can be hard to tell on some cars if it was designed to carry a heavy product, (thus it has stronger or more springs), but if it is repurposed to carry a light product the springs won't compress much and the two spaces can not be relied upon to detect the load status.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
samfp1943 Murphy S. Take from me; Your hearing will be more and more of a problem... It will get better; when your wife tells you to go get hearing aids- or she orders you a set from Amazon ! As your hearing gets better, it will; be a very high pitched sound relaying the above information...
Yes, the Ethanol industry is in trouble. With prices of fuel this low, sales of ethanol right now are at or below the cost of production. The small refinery waivers have also reduced demand. Ethanol could compete with gas now if the price of corn was low, but that would be a serious blow to Agriculture.
The correct name for the "box girder" is truck bolster.
1019xThe correct name for the "box girder" is truck bolster.
More specifically, three-piece-truck bolster (other designs of truck have very different construction, and there are a number of highly-interesting patents for detail design of three-piece truck bolsters of alternative construction).
I think he was trying to explain to someone who said he was a 'layman' in engineering (and, as I recall, also said that he had trouble distinguishing loaded spring depression range from unloaded) what to look for in the side view of a three-piece truck. I admit that I'd start by describing what the bolster does, and then go on to describe what it usually looks like and how its end appears, but I'm more of a tech fiend than the person who was asking.
Yeah, I knew it had a proper name and would have used it and called it a box girder just as a description, but my brain had left the room when I started writing and I could not remember the name... even box girder is probably not a good descrition except to say that when viewed from the end you see a box shape.
Semper Vaporoeven box girder is probably not a good description except to say that when viewed from the end you see a box shape.
"Box girder" is a reasonable characterization of the kind of welded-bolster construction being described, including the stiffening web in the middle. There's a wealth of patents for various kinds of bolster design, including those for 'high-speed' three-piece trucks (a fascinating evolution in and of itself!) and various methods of precluding truck skew at the bolster as wear progresses...
I found it fascinating that in the early Seventies a comparatively large range of 'interchange' trucks was found perfectly suitable for peak operating speed of 90mph, without the anti-lozenging features I thought would surely be necessary for safety in that range. Don't think that because a three-piece truck is simple, it isn't extremely capable when its detail design has been done right.
Semper Vaporo Lithonia Operator can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers. You can tell when looking at the side of the wheels/bogey/truck (whatever you want to call it) On top of the springs is a box girder that is the cross member from one side of the truck to the other. The car is setting on that member, free to pivot on it at the center. The ends of that member are setting on the springs that are setting on the lower portion of the side frame. The wheels are on the axle that the side frame is resting on. The weight bearing path, from the rail to the car is, wheels, axle, side frame, springs, cross member, car pivot point. But back to that girder/cross member. It is usually divided into two sections across its length by a vertical web. So, from the end, what you see is two rectangles next to each other, sharing one side in the center (that web). That cross member is free to move up and down inside the side frame in the area occupied by the springs and the cross member (or maybe the side frame is free to move vertically around the cross member, depending on how you want to consider it). The area below the cross member is filled by the springs, but above the cross member is free space that is about the same size and shape as the end of the cross member. Compare the height of the cross member to the space above it. When the car is empty that space will be slightly smaller (in height) than the height of the cross member and when the car is fully loaded that space will be slightly taller than the cross member (the springs being compressed). Careful compareson of the height of those two rectangular spaces will give you some idea of whether the car is full or empty. It can be hard to tell on some cars if it was designed to carry a heavy product, (thus it has stronger or more springs), but if it is repurposed to carry a light product the springs won't compress much and the two spaces can not be relied upon to detect the load status.
Lithonia Operator can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers.
That's how I tell loaded from empty...
Truck parts:
Two side frames
A bolster (most times with friction wedges)
Springs
Brake beams and levers
Wheelsets with cartridge bearings and bearing adapters
The whole deal goes together rather simply. The bolster slides into the top of the truck frames. The springs go in by hand between the bolter and the side frame and you can then let the bolster rest on the springs. The bearing adapters go on the top to the bearings and then you lower the whole assembly onto the wheel sets. Install the brake beam and levers and pins. These are held in place by cotter pins. That's it.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Overmod . . . Don't think that because a three-piece truck is simple, it isn't extremely capable when its detail design has been done right.
- PDN.
tree68Meme recently seen on FB: How many weeks per gallon are you getting?
I'll have to get gas before the end of the month - or lose 60 cents or more a gallon off from my local grocery store.
Discover picked a bad time (from the customers perspective) to offer additional cash back on gasoline purchases from April through June.
One way not mentioned to tell if a car is loaded or empty is to watch the track as each truck moves over it. It will noticeably flex downward more with a heavy load. At least that works with Louisiiana dirt; I don't know about rocky terrain.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Some flexing does occur with good ballast, but it is more common on poorly maintained track.
Re empty vs. loaded, and I havent seen this mentioned, my method is to look at the tank. If it's sagging, it's loaded, otherwise not sagging = not loaded.
LehighLad Lithonia Operator Murph, it sounds like you know the turf and the situation, so I don't doubt they are empties. But I'm curious: can you tell whether a tank car is full/empty just by looking at it? And are there "tells" re other cars, also? For example, covered hoppers. Re empty vs. loaded, and I havent seen this mentioned, my method is to look at the tank. If it's sagging, it's loaded, otherwise not sagging = not loaded.
I've seen a few "sway back" cars, but never thought that might be indicating the load state. I'll have to be on the lookout for that and check it against my tell.
Murphy SidingAre you meaning visibly sagging in the middle like the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile?
I believe they're built that way. Any sag would be virtually undetectable. They're not like the highway flatbeds with the curve built in.
LehighLadRe empty vs. loaded, and I havent seen this mentioned, my method is to look at the tank. If it's sagging, it's loaded, otherwise not sagging = not loaded.
Many bottom discharge tank cars are constructed with a sag in the center to aid in unloading.
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