Railfans who break the law...

[Anonymous]

In response to the thread which discussed the detaining of two railfans for photographing trains (http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=28130), what have you done, as a railfan, that could land you a short stay in jail, or an empty wallet? Do you frequently tresspass on railroad property, to get that close-up photo of your fav. locomotives? Have you done the timeless tradition of putting a penny on the rail? If you have, have you ever been caught? Maybe you have gotten trouble, like the railfans in the mentioned thread, without any reason. Lets hear the stories where railfanning became, dare I say, lawbreaking.

(For those who are shaking their heads at this thread, despite the hard work of Op. Lifesaver, I do tresspass on railway property, but that is pretty much as far as I go, and I haven't been caught--yet[:p].)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dragonslayer87

In response to the thread which discussed the detaining of two railfans for photographing trains (http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=28130), what have you done, as a railfan, that could land you a short stay in jail, or an empty wallet? Do you frequently tresspass on railroad property, to get that close-up photo of your fav. locomotives? Have you done the timeless tradition of putting a penny on the rail? If you have, have you ever been caught? Maybe you have gotten trouble, like the railfans in the mentioned thread, without any reason. Lets hear the stories where railfanning became, dare I say, lawbreaking.

(For those who are shaking their heads at this thread, despite the hard work of Op. Lifesaver, I do tresspass on railway property, but that is pretty much as far as I go, and I haven't been caught--yet[:p].)

Lucky you! Me neather..........Yet!

[Anonymous]

It's only a matter of time...

LC

[tree68]

QUOTE: Do you frequently tresspass on railroad property, to get that close-up photo of your fav. locomotives? Have you done the timeless tradition of putting a penny on the rail? If you have, have you ever been caught?

When I wasn't as smart as I am today, certainly. Today? No where near as likely, particularly if it's a situation where I could be considered a threat to the railroad. I chose my photo ops where I have legitimate access (ie, from a parking lot - private property, but publically accessible). I got an invite from the local trainmaster to visit the yard, and when I finally take him up on it, my first stop will be his office...

[Anonymous]

There are plenty of public places that have excellent vantage points of railways in action, trespassing on their property (or anyone elses for that matter) just isn't necessary.

[miniwyo]

If there is a certian vantage point you want, and it is on public land get WRITTEN permission first. and thne go about your railfanning.

[Anonymous]

when i was 12 or 13 i used to live in Ottawa, IL and i would go watch the local BN crew switch the small yard in town. every afternoon the train would come down from aurora to take a trainload of sand north. i was offered a cabride the one time but declined...the 'don't accept rides from strangers' was hammered into a kid's mind u know. as a consolation one of the trainmen let me give the engineer the highball over the radio. another time when i was around the same age my dad took us to the CSX yard in ottawa to look around. we were approached by an employee there and my dad told him he was takin us kids for a look at what was goin on there. the guy was kind enough to take us up into the cab of an engine...#1522 a GP-15T. gone are the gp 15's...now i see dash 8's and sd 40's-60's there. so, i was trespassing, but that would never happen nowadays...

[Anonymous]

As a railroad employee I have seen and heard of some railfans doing thing that were just increadable.

One was caught on a stored unit striping equipment, another was seen ( on camera) running around the out bound, jumping in frount of moving trains and taking pictures then jumping out of the way at the last minute.

And those are just two examples of the stuff that goes on around here.

And you know what?
When the police caught up with those two, they didn't even think they were doing anything wrong and couldn't understand why they were being charged with anything.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Freedom Rider

As a railroad employee I have seen and heard of some railfans doing thing that were just increadable.

One was caught on a stored unit striping equipment, another was seen ( on camera) running around the out bound, jumping in frount of moving trains and taking pictures then jumping out of the way at the last minute.

And those are just two examples of the stuff that goes on around here.

And you know what?
When the police caught up with those two, they didn't even think they were doing anything wrong and couldn't understand why they were being charged with anything.

That's called not useing your head or thinking.

[dknelson]

Well the statute of limitations has passed on this .... when I was a teenager -- so we are talking about close to 40 years ago -- a friend and I would spend as many summer days as we could hanging around the local C&NW depot. One day we walked over to their trash heap where they would pile up trash and about once every three months or so pour kerosene on it and burn it up. That particular day we saw that they had thrown away their metal Railway Express Agency signs (since the Agency itself had long been closed) as well as several Adlake kerosene lanterns. The lenses were all smashed out of the lanterns.
In theory I guess we were taking railroad property although of course by that time the railroad was assigning no value to the stuff
My friend was more daring than I was. He later went to the station agent and explained that he had taken two lanterns from the trash heap but that the lenses were broken. The guy took him into the store room and gave him new lenses as well as the rubber gaskets that were used -- so I guess you could also view that as permission to have the lanterns, although I suppose the guy probably lacked authority to give away railroad property, even if it was trash.
Dave Nelson

[jockellis]

All I can say is that I miss the roof walks on box cars parked on wayside sidings. I had great fun running all over them when I was a young teen some 45 years ago. But it wasn't until my new, 17-year-old bride charmed an SCL engineer into giving us a ride at Fernandina Beach, FL that i ever got on a diesel. And I was scared to death then. So was the engineer, but he was helplessly under the spell of a beautiful woman.
Jock Ellis
Cumming, GA US of A

[Anonymous]

When i was 12-13 y.o, i rode coal locals taking emptys up a short line to a mine where a good friend lived,spent the day and road the loaded cars back to start at the end of a fun day. To think of doing that now, i cringe.I sometimes get close to tracks but never on them to take pics.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Freedom Rider

As a railroad employee I have seen and heard of some railfans doing thing that were just increadable.

One was caught on a stored unit striping equipment, another was seen ( on camera) running around the out bound, jumping in frount of moving trains and taking pictures then jumping out of the way at the last minute.

And those are just two examples of the stuff that goes on around here.

And you know what?
When the police caught up with those two, they didn't even think they were doing anything wrong and couldn't understand why they were being charged with anything.

That's called not useing your head or thinking.

an interesting article about this kind of stuff is at the Canadian OL website: http://www.operationlifesaver.ca/docs/interch/article04.htm

[Anonymous]

Dragonslayer87- CLearly in your picture you can see superman is indeed tresspassing. NS police were quick to try to detain him but after saving the day superman flew away just out of the grasps of the NS police. Though his identity was revealed by the Camera in the front engine. The next day Clark Kent wrote a well written story about the daring feets of superman. While the New York TImes wrote a scathing expose on how easy it is to tresspass on Railroad Property. And how the terrorists could easily use this information and destroy America.
Andrew

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by george745

Dragonslayer87- CLearly in your picture you can see superman is indeed tresspassing. NS police were quick to try to detain him but after saving the day superman flew away just out of the grasps of the NS police. Though his identity was revealed by the Camera in the front engine. The next day Clark Kent wrote a well written story about the daring feets of superman. While the New York TImes wrote a scathing expose on how easy it is to tresspass on Railroad Property. And how the terrorists could easily use this information and destroy America.
Andrew

...and the royaties earned from his articles went towards his chiropractor bill-- those wheel flanges caused considerable pain along the spine...[:D]

[locomutt]

Only ONE rail?[:D]

Not sure about the 'adventures' of 'younger' people now;
but I did a 'few things' when I was younger.[8D][B)]
I have a "Railroad Crossing" sign in my collection.
However,the 'railroad' knows about it,and actually gave
it to me.

[Anonymous]

I dread to think how many times I have been technically trespassing on Railway Property - usually loco sheds but yards and others. Lets be clear though - we're not talking running lines and it was usuually with a nod and a wink from whoever was around.

I've also spent many happy hours in signal boxes (towers) with friendly Bobbies (signalmen). It was all spoilt by the idiots who decided to start sueing against their own stupidity.

Would I do it again - not today but take me back to the 70s and 80s and I'd do it all over again but make sure I visited all those places that I missed then or didn't know about. I guess you could say I was unrepentent but I never vandalised, stole or put myself in the way of 100 tons of metal coming the wrong way. I might ask permission a few more times, looking back it was rarely refused and then you had a little justification.

The penalties have changed , it was worth the risk for a stern telling off, its not worth it for a criminal record.

Sorry if this appals the professionals amongst you

Kev

[oubliette]

It would seem that the same story plays out across the world. Here in the UK most railfans are sensible and keep their distance or don't trespass on the railway. However there is a few that do spoil it for others. They blatantly walk across tracks, walk into rail depots without asking and then spoil it for the rest of the railfans.

I work at a large depot and I am still a railfan, have been for over 30 years. In the 80's some UK depots would let you look around if you asked and it was fairly quiet. Obviously over the years and with the sue culture; some accidents followed. Eventually depots became fortresses and even permits that used to be issued to large groups were steadily withdrawn.

Railway depots are dangerous places. Before I worked on the railways, if visiting a depot I would try to arrange a permit in advance or visit the offices or indeed ring up to see if access would be allowed. In those times I have seen people just run into depots, take pictures, take items for their collection and run out. It’s a shame but these very few people spoil it for the majority.

Where I work is quite a large depot that facilitates maintenance on locomotives, rolling stock, including fuelling and a Wheel Lathe. I have on a number of occasions just come across people walking around the site. When challenged they assume it was all right to walk across a mainline to get to us. Our site is only accessed off a private road and a private crossing which we have to get permission from the signaller to cross it. The other end of the site is accessed from a footbridge from other railway property and is classed as a walking route for railway employees only. Yes despite this people just walk on and feel it’s their right to walk into running areas, around moving locomotives and take pictures.

On Christmas day I was working and it had been snowing. I walked around the site and saw fresh footprints in the snow. I followed these and found a railfan taking pictures. When I asked him what he was doing he said he didn't expect anyone to be working, despite loco's running in the background and cars on the car park. He was a polite gentleman and as he had already been around I walked him off the premises via a safe route.

Only 2 days ago on a night shift I caught someone else and he was rather abusive. He said what harm was he doing taking pictures and carried on doing so. We had to remove him rather quickly and reported him.

A number of depots have had problems with people removing parts for "preserved" loco's; this does not help the preservation scene whatsoever of which I am a part also. I have seen locomotives come onto our depot with corners of nameplates broken off or bent where someone has forced a bar behind it to try and remove it.

The depot where I work is full of employees who are railfans and we do allow people around if they notify us in advance and agree to our terms of safety and not to photograph sensitive issues or use them for publications if requested not to do so.

Many of people who enter depots pretend to work for other railroad companies and wear hi-viz vests of that company. They rarely can provide i.d. (required on railways) and have usually purchased their clothing from websites etc.

My experience with the US rail scene is somewhat limited but when I have visited I have in advanced emailed depots, Train Operators to ask permission to visit sites. I have so far been 100% successful and having "booked" in advance found all the railroad staff very helpful, informative and willing to help a fellow railfan and worker.

[sebamat]

When I was living in Champaign (97-98) I regularly drove to the yard and sitting on a bench just out of the yard office look to what was happening and in the lull times read some magazines...

From what i am reading here, I was absolutely trespassing IC proprierty (to go there you had to cross a few tracks), but none never complained (and the yard men were walking a few meters from me). So apparently I was tollerated....

sebastiano

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Freedom Rider

As a railroad employee I have seen and heard of some railfans doing thing that were just increadable.

One was caught on a stored unit striping equipment, another was seen ( on camera) running around the out bound, jumping in frount of moving trains and taking pictures then jumping out of the way at the last minute.

And those are just two examples of the stuff that goes on around here.

And you know what?
When the police caught up with those two, they didn't even think they were doing anything wrong and couldn't understand why they were being charged with anything.

I was a conductor riding a shove a few years back and came around a bend on the very active running track, in the middle of an area with a siding next to me with cars in it and two main tracks on the opposite side, in the midst of a good sized yard complex used by three railroads, the other side only to encounter a fan with his tripod set up in the gauge taking photos of a visiting steam engine. Needless to say we had to come to an abrupt stop and the fan was escorted to the local police station by RR police for booking.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by Freedom Rider

As a railroad employee I have seen and heard of some railfans doing thing that were just increadable.

One was caught on a stored unit striping equipment, another was seen ( on camera) running around the out bound, jumping in frount of moving trains and taking pictures then jumping out of the way at the last minute.

And those are just two examples of the stuff that goes on around here.

And you know what?
When the police caught up with those two, they didn't even think they were doing anything wrong and couldn't understand why they were being charged with anything.

I was a conductor riding a shove a few years back and came around a bend on the very active running track, in the middle of an area with a siding next to me with cars in it and two main tracks on the opposite side, in the midst of a good sized yard complex used by three railroads, the other side only to encounter a fan with his tripod set up in the gauge taking photos of a visiting steam engine. Needless to say we had to come to an abrupt stop and the fan was escorted to the local police station by RR police for booking.

LC

does anybody know what the fines or penalties are for tresspassing or other infractions? (obviously varying with state or province, but in general)

[kwboehm]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dragonslayer87
does anybody know what the fines or penalties are for tresspassing or other infractions? (obviously varying with state or province, but in general)

It does vary upon state, but even in my state it all varies upon a number of circumstances. Here (Nebr.) it can range from a $50 fine to up to a year in the joint. Or, at the time of the offense, there are certain circumstance where I may be only able to issue a citation and others where I could haul the offender away. One such case involved a transient stowing away on the second unit of a train. He was asked to leave by the crew as they got on their van at the end of their shift, but when my partner & I got there he was still there. I won't go into details, but that situtation met more than one of the criteria to make a reservation at the County Bed & Breakfast.

[Anonymous]

I was in Fremont,Neb.yesterday to get a spair tire for my truck and decided to run down to the UP/BNSF Dimond for just a few seconds and saw nothing,so then I went up the street to the BNSF Depot and there was the Re-Painted H1 BNSF2300 sitting there with it's Caboose. I wanted to real bad to get a Photo shot of it realy bad but all this talk about Railfans going to jail is starting to realy scare me now more than ever so I don't know what the Hell to do now.
Is america's new attatude you take photo's you go to jail?
Im scared as hell now!
You don't how know much I wanted to get a Photograph of that BNSF2300.

[kwboehm]

If you are able to click on the link, read the post that Mike Yuhas had today from the Chicago Tribune. I think they are finally trying to dispell that and correctly redirect officers, at least with Metra Police and some of their surrounding communities.

If you do night photography, tonight will be safe to take pics in Cass County...I'm working tonight and I promise I won't haul you off...unless of course you do something foolish.

[Tharmeni]

Well, I can no longer be charged for this, but I used to go into tunnels on the IC in Southern Indiana, hide in the recesses and let the trains fly by me -- a mere three feet away. Stupid? YES. But what a rush!

[Anonymous]

macguy-


there's something wrong when we need permission to be on PUBLIC PROPERTY

on that note, i heard a story of railroad fuzz harassing someone on PUBLIC PROPERTY for taking pics. municipal police got involved and they had no problem with it. sorry bull, but you got no case. run along and get all the people that drive around the gates.

talk to a lawyer and know your rights, and i wish i knew the link for the photographer's bill of rights.


d

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

I was in Fremont,Neb.yesterday to get a spair tire for my truck and decided to run down to the UP/BNSF Dimond for just a few seconds and saw nothing,so then I went up the street to the BNSF Depot and there was the Re-Painted H1 BNSF2300 sitting there with it's Caboose. I wanted to real bad to get a Photo shot of it realy bad but all this talk about Railfans going to jail is starting to realy scare me now more than ever so I don't know what the Hell to do now.
Is america's new attatude you take photo's you go to jail?
Im scared as hell now!
You don't how know much I wanted to get a Photograph of that BNSF2300.

If you are shooting it from the public street or sidewalk, there should be no problem at all. Walking onto posted RR property would be a different story. Due to the uproar over the Metra Incident, where the Metra Police were trying to enforce a Metra directive forbidding public photography on public property, which has now been discontinued. If you are on public property, and not being a nuisance...blocking traffic, etc...you should be fine. Dave Williams http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nsaltoonajohnstown

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

I was in Fremont,Neb.yesterday to get a spair tire for my truck and decided to run down to the UP/BNSF Dimond for just a few seconds and saw nothing,so then I went up the street to the BNSF Depot and there was the Re-Painted H1 BNSF2300 sitting there with it's Caboose. I wanted to real bad to get a Photo shot of it realy bad but all this talk about Railfans going to jail is starting to realy scare me now more than ever so I don't know what the Hell to do now.
Is america's new attatude you take photo's you go to jail?
Im scared as hell now!
You don't how know much I wanted to get a Photograph of that BNSF2300.

railfanning is becoming a "grey area"; no one knows what is right and what is wrong, and neither do the authorities[V]

[Anonymous]

This is just my two cents worth. I don't know if I'm trying to make a point or just comment...Bear with me, sometimes it's fun to ramble on!

You know, there aren't too many people who know who railfans are, or that the hobby of railfanning exists...Including policemen. So to the general public it might seem odd that someone would spend all day or all night watching and taking pictures of trains, because they don't do it. So it surprises them and maybe scares them that someone else would. There are tons of hobbies out there that we, as railfans, don't know exist. Perhaps if those hobbies were done in public it might surprise or scare us as well.

I think I can understand that after the bombing in Spain that people would be more aware, even in this country, of what's going on around trains and tracks, but only because they don't know why we do it, not that they think it's wrong. I doubt if anyone wants to get blown up.

Who knows what the government has heard or knows about regarding railroads. I'm sure lots of incidents that have happened since 9/11 would scare the crap out of us. They're just not taking any chances. The government, the railroads and the police are erring on the side of safety rather than the side of our rights.

Perhaps all the press this issue is getting will eventually educate the population that we're all pretty harmless and are just pursuing something we see as fun and not subversive. Then they can start seeing us as eyes and ears and are to be trusted to help out.


A nod and a smile go a long way.


mike

[tree68]

[2c] A visiting technician saw the wallpaper on my computer - A couple of modern diesel-electrics. "Are those steam engines?" he asked....

It's funny that people who wouldn't think twice about birdwatching consider trainwatching an odd sport.