Railfans who break the law...

[Anonymous]

There ya go, tree68...birdwatching! I was trying to think of an example of "other" hobbies without making somebody mad. Let's say there was a birdwatcher at the train depot doing the same thing we're doing. Now, since most of us are maybe more receptive to different hobbies, we'd probably stroll over and ask them about it, maybe compare cameras and binoculars, and we'd maybe understand. But the same policeman who talked to you might talk to them and ask them to leave, or wonder why they were there taking pictures...Not because they're doing anything wrong, they're just doing something "different". I'll bet if we went to a birdwatching forum they'd have similar concerns as we do.

Skateboarding also comes to mind. Those guys seem to get a lot of grief too, and they're on public property, just like we are.

mike

[MP57313]

To the uninitiated, train-watching rates up there with manhole cover collecting or cataloging of telephone poles.

A few years ago I was in the Lone Pine area in California's Owens Valley (east of the Sierras). The old station is still there -- used as a bookstore then. Just south of it, you could still find the old right-of-way. SP had left behind some old rails, tie plates, and other debris. If I took an old rusted tie plate, would that be stealing? I think it would be ... I do not know who the landowner was/is.

But in response to the earlier post: if you take something from a junkyard/dump (not a salvage company's lot) is that stealing also? Not so sure there.

I have walked along rights of way numerous times in the past but stick to sidewalks/side of the road dirt these days.

[Anonymous]

I don't have anything to say right now, I just want to get to 100 posts.

m

[Anonymous]

The problem with the cops is,sure they have a job to do,But who ever said that you(cop)have to violate my rights when im doing nothing wrong,Even when im Railfanning!
The problem with the cops is,They want to take the law into there own hands,Your sapposted to protect and "NOT" harass us!
Sure if a cop pulles up to me when im Railfanning and askes for the proper info from me,Yes I will comply with him or her,But in the mean time the cop should go no further that. I mean if my licence plate doesn't tell that person of who I am and why im here then there is a serious problem with that person.
There I feel better now.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

... cataloging of telephone poles...

Railfan: "What idiot drives around copying down the numberes on telephone poles?"

[;)]

But seriously, thats like that guy stealing that 79,800 rolls of tolit paper, pointless....[:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brak710101

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

... cataloging of telephone poles...

Railfan: "What idiot drives around copying down the numberes on telephone poles?"

[;)]

But seriously, thats like that guy stealing that 79,800 rolls of tolit paper, pointless....[:D]

[(-D]!

[Anonymous]

BNSFrailfan-With all due respects-Do you really think you have to worry about getting thrown in jail or fined in Blair, Nebraska for railfanning? Have you ever been harrassed there?

I feel bad that you didn't take the picture in Fremont. I'll bet you a zillion dollars no one would have messed with you. I hope you get another opportunity for the picture and go ahead and do it!

I hear a TRAIN!!! Woo hoo!!!! gotta hurry outside!!!!!
m


m

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mehrlich

BNSFrailfan-With all due respects-Do you really think you have to worry about getting thrown in jail or fined in Blair, Nebraska for railfanning? Have you ever been harrassed there?

I feel bad that you didn't take the picture in Fremont. I'll bet you a zillion dollars no one would have messed with you. I hope you get another opportunity for the picture and go ahead and do it!

I hear a TRAIN!!! Woo hoo!!!! gotta hurry outside!!!!!
m


m

I give up.

[Anonymous]

In my area, there is no need to break the law, not that I would anyway. There is plenty of law enforcement on the lookout, even in a more rural area of Central MN, but the railroad moves through towns fairly close to the downtown leaving many great photo opps. I've taken many photos, and all were taken on public property, legally. Guess I've never run into the need to trespass for a shot.

Follow my link to check out some examples

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

To the uninitiated, train-watching rates up there with manhole cover collecting or cataloging of telephone poles.

A few years ago I was in the Lone Pine area in California's Owens Valley (east of the Sierras). The old station is still there -- used as a bookstore then. Just south of it, you could still find the old right-of-way. SP had left behind some old rails, tie plates, and other debris. If I took an old rusted tie plate, would that be stealing? I think it would be ... I do not know who the landowner was/is.

But in response to the earlier post: if you take something from a junkyard/dump (not a salvage company's lot) is that stealing also? Not so sure there.

I have walked along rights of way numerous times in the past but stick to sidewalks/side of the road dirt these days.

I've found lots of old junk along the tracks, and have always wondered if it would be classified as theft to take it, since, to the RR it is just junk, and wouldn't even consider it loss.

[RicHamilton]

I was in Ohio in September with a couple of other foamers and we were sitting near the crossing waiting for trains with the car parked there and Nova Scotia plates. One of us had the binoculars and a camera the rest just cameras. The local sherriff rolls up asks us if there is a steam train coming, we reply no, he asks a couple of more questions and then drives on. Heck of a nice guy.

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.
Sure if a cop pulles up to me when im Railfanning and askes for the proper info from me,Yes I will comply with him or her,But in the mean time the cop should go no further that. I mean if my licence plate doesn't tell that person of who I am and why im here then there is a serious problem with that person.
There I feel better now.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RicHamilton

I was in Ohio in September with a couple of other foamers and we were sitting near the crossing waiting for trains with the car parked there and Nova Scotia plates. One of us had the binoculars and a camera the rest just cameras. The local sherriff rolls up asks us if there is a steam train coming, we reply no, he asks a couple of more questions and then drives on. Heck of a nice guy.

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.
Sure if a cop pulles up to me when im Railfanning and askes for the proper info from me,Yes I will comply with him or her,But in the mean time the cop should go no further that. I mean if my licence plate doesn't tell that person of who I am and why im here then there is a serious problem with that person.
There I feel better now.

Im in a better mood today so......
That's cool.
What I ment was,most of the cops do have there days just like us. Nobody's perfect.
I realy apoigise for what I said earier,We all have our day's.
Ill be more carefull now.

[Anonymous]

When I was but a wee tot (aged 13) I used to hang around the New Haven railroad station in my hometown. The station master knew me and didn't seem to mind my being around.

I know for a fact that he broke a bunch of serious rail road rules putting up with me. I spent many a happy afternoon in his switch tower catching engine numbers and counting cars so he could call them into his dispatcher. Under his supervision, I even threw an Armstrong lever or two. And yes, I even got several cab rides when the local would show up to switch out the cars being set out. I knew (because the guys told me to) to duck under window sills when some trains went by to keep "trespasser" reports from being generated.

Now that I'm a rail fan, and a serving deputy sheriff, I realize how much risk those guys took having me around. They risked their jobs just to let a kid hang out with them. I shudder to think of what might have happened to them if a trainmaster or management happened to wander by.

I still go down to the local yard and I still take pictures. I realize that the men and women I see- throwing switches, operating the locomotives, or running the yard tower- need to concentrate on what it is they are doing. I try not to distract them from that.

As a cop, I realize the fascination with trains. I also am well aware that the vast majority of Americans equate trains with Thomas the Tank Engine rather than a heavy industrial operation that is dangerous to the untrained observer. People in general do dumb things that I have to stop them from doing. Some examples:
1) The bird watcher who wandered onto a private hunt club because she saw a flight of Canadian geese. It was hunting season; she wondered why I would even bother her for "trespassing" because all she was doing was "counting birds".

2) The idiot who wandered into a local lumber plant and climbed up on top of a stack of unprocessed logs to take a picture of the plant because it was "cool". It took me ten minutes to get up there to tell him that the stack he was standing on could collapse and kill him... and, at that point in time, me too. I have nothing against idiots getting killed... it's Darwinian selection at it's finest... but getting me killed with them is right out.
3) There have been news articles lately about planes being hit with laser beams in the airspace over the United States. My suspicion is that you have a bunch of kids out there with laser pointers or levelers taking aim "from their own property or from public property". They don't know any better... and their folks probably believe that "it's all harmless, good fun and that kids will be kids."

I would like to believe that all railfans are responsible, educated and safety minded people... but the reality I face daily is somewhat different.

Erik

[Anonymous]

But if it ok nowadays with a personal who is working with the RR who is just standing around doing,If I wanted to Photograph a Locomotive even though RR property "IS" RR proprty is still ok to ask "That" person if it ok to Photograph the Locomotive?
Yes or No.
Thanks.
I guess asking permission is much better that just tresspassing.

[CSXrules4eva]

I'm pretty sure all of us railfans have broken the law even once just to get that up close shot of a train, or to retrevie that railroad spike lying on the tracks. I know I have more than once. [:D]

[Modelcar]

....Or getting that picture so one can see all the way through the tunnel....etc.

[lvt1000]

Hasn't happened to me but the internet indicates some inhospitable and neurotic behavior from law enforcement....like at Morton Grove with METRA and I guess anywhere on NJT. Yet old haunts like Tehachapi and elsewhere move on like nothing has happened. NJT can have you arrrested for taking pictures and Strasburg wants you to take pictures and they are both regulated Common Carriers. What is going wrong....please don't say that is the price of freedom!

[chad thomas]

It's not, it's the price we pay for the ILLUSION of freedom !!!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva

I'm pretty sure all of us railfans have broken the law even once just to get that up close shot of a train, or to retrevie that railroad spike lying on the tracks. I know I have more than once. [:D]

Aaron, Sarah, et al [:)]

I believe at earlier times in our lives we have all at one time or another done something stupid that could have gotten us hurt or even killed. People can be forgiving, locomotives and railcars can't. Remember a "humped" railcar is almost silent, please keep off railroad property for your own good. Railroads are very serious with their workers about working safely. The railroad police WILL arrest people for tresspassing if on railroad property. Please don't put yourselves in harm's way, please don't risk an arrest, fine and criminal record. Take all the photos you want, just do so from a safe distance.

I would love to see you all around in 5 or 10 years, still posting on this forum and being a railfan or railroad worker. Be safe, not sorry. [;)]

Don't Forget: Look . . . Listen . . . Live

[UPTRAIN]

About the only time I ever get on the tracks is if I'm crossing them in a car, or stepping up on a crossing, looking for one that's coming. The other times are if I am on a train. I know the railroad special agent, so he's not an excuse, I still abide, but, I do get a way with a little bit more than some. That's it.

[Anonymous]

I wasn't aware that there is some law against photographing railroal vehicles.
Nobody ever complained. I mean once I was standing near a whole bunch of railroad people taking photos of the trains in front of me. They looked at me, and then turned away and continued talking. Not to mention that I've photographed many trains standing and waiting for the signal, a few meters away from the locomotive, nobody ever complained either. I've went back into the more reserved parts of the train station, where there are wrecks and garages, took pictures, while employed people were walking around, nobody complained either.

If what the first post suggests is true, must be hard being a rail-photo-fan in US

Well if all fails, you can always catch a train in the open with 1/1000s hiding behind a bush. I've often went far outside of town following the tracks. A nice epxerience minus all the smelly animal corpses every Km or two (the things you can find out on the open)

[espeefoamer]

Back when I was young I used to tresspass in RR yards on a regular basis.At one engine terminal I used to get cab rides from a hostler.A few times I would hang on the side of a boxcar and ride a few hundred feet.I once rode a TTX flat for 1/2 mile.A couple of times,I wasn't quite as careful as I should have been,and I almost got hit.

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Brak710101

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

... cataloging of telephone poles...

Railfan: "What idiot drives around copying down the numberes on telephone poles?"

[;)]

But seriously, thats like that guy stealing that 79,800 rolls of tolit paper, pointless....[:D]

I wouldn't say pointless, be right back...........

[emmar]

I can proudly say that I have never tresspassed on railroad or private property in order to get a picture and I don't see why anyone needs to. I can get very good pictures without breaking any laws. I would suggest to some of the other people on this forum who break the law to get their pictures that they stop doing so before they get caught or hurt and give railfans a bad reputation.

[Anonymous]

I have walked on the BNSF tracks just outside of Kennewick, WA and they have trains that goes by there as often as 2-3 times an hour, plus I didn't see any trespassing signs on the tracks in that particular area.

QUOTE: Originally posted by dragonslayer87

In response to the thread which discussed the detaining of two railfans for photographing trains (http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=28130), what have you done, as a railfan, that could land you a short stay in jail, or an empty wallet? Do you frequently tresspass on railroad property, to get that close-up photo of your fav. locomotives? Have you done the timeless tradition of putting a penny on the rail? If you have, have you ever been caught? Maybe you have gotten trouble, like the railfans in the mentioned thread, without any reason. Lets hear the stories where railfanning became, dare I say, lawbreaking.

(For those who are shaking their heads at this thread, despite the hard work of Op. Lifesaver, I do tresspass on railway property, but that is pretty much as far as I go, and I haven't been caught--yet[:p].)

[Anonymous]

If you are on a Gradecrossing or a County Road you can Photograph any Trains you want. If any RR cop tells you to stop taking Photo's when you are on eather one of the two that I just said,Then he is violating your rights. As long as you stay more than 50FT back from the Track you will be ok. A Gradecrossing and a back Countyroad will be your best friend. There is no law stating that Railfans can not take Photo's of Trains.Allan.

[Anonymous]

Someone asked about trespassing on rail property, and what the fines would be.

I've routinely made arrests on industrial properties. The shop foreman or another high muckity muck has invited "his" local deputy out to make an arrest on someone who is on his property. Have never responded to an NS complaint, but they are tolerant to a point...

There are four variants of criminal trespass in the State of Alabama. All of them are misdemeanors or violations- about the rough equivalent of a traffic ticket. In one incident, I made an arrests on six people who were driving around a quarry on their four wheelers. Five bailed out within two hours. The sixth guy tried to run me over with his four wheeler... he spent a couple of months in jail.

Really aggressive officers can and do make arrests on people who are transients... just hanging around in front of convenience stores. (I've seen it happen in Arizona and in Alabama... and I'm fairly sure it happens elsewhere.) This is usually a case of some person who is being "mainstreamed" into society from mental health... and the only social service available to them is the County Hilton, where they get fed, showered and have a semi safe place to sleep.

The truth about "public" property is that a great deal of property open to "the public" is private... and the owners can get sticky about your presence there.

There are also local laws going into effect for transients in the Atlanta area... which includes warnings, fines, and a trip to jail.

Cops generally enforce trespassing when there's a complaint called in by a citizen or a property owner.

Hope that answers your question.

Erik

[Anonymous]

I just stay out of sight and keep a low profile... The ex conrail riverline most train crews see me most of the time and don't mind me around but back in June of 1996 a work train was backing on the siding and ask me if i was trespassing and me being only 14 i'd didn't know what he was talking about and continued until he yelled "GET OUT OF HERE!" i quickly stoped and started packing. i moved to a crossing down the line.... on public property

[coborn35]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSF railfan.

If you are on a Gradecrossing or a County Road you can Photograph any Trains you want. If any RR cop tells you to stop taking Photo's when you are on eather one of the two that I just said,Then he is violating your rights. As long as you stay more than 50FT back from the Track you will be ok. A Gradecrossing and a back Countyroad will be your best friend. There is no law stating that Railfans can not take Photo's of Trains.Allan.

EXACTLY! Thats why I do the majority of my railfanning on a country back road on the Staples Sub. I have only had one problem, and that lady was [}:)][censored]

[Anonymous]

if they don't want you to be on their property, you can always take photos of trains that wonder of on YOUR property (public property)