I have some tire pressure sensors on my Ford truck that have NEVER worked properly. The mechanics tell me to ignore the warning.
Euclid said the magic word, sensors.
Take it from one who had to deal with them for thirty years, path sensors, drum potential sensors, density sensors, size sensors, temerature sensors, you name it, if you don't keep 'em clean they don't work.
Imagine what's going to happen when car-mounted sensors needed for self-driving vehicles start to gunk up from road grime, dust, mud, road salt residue and other nasties if the vehicles owner doesn't clean them on a regular basis.
And if there's thousands, if not millions of roadside sensors installed, who's going to keep them clean? Has that been figured into the equation?
Technology is an amazing thing, but it's not the panacea people want it to be, not 100% of the time.
The closest thing we've ever had to a self-driving vehicle that worked was the horse-drawn carriage. The road carnage began when drivers didn't have a horse to help them with the thinking.
Euclid The option of human driving will have to be taken away. So the necessary rapid conversion will pose a problem just like ECP brakes requireing an overnight coversion of the entire North American rolling stock fleet.
The option of human driving will have to be taken away. So the necessary rapid conversion will pose a problem just like ECP brakes requireing an overnight coversion of the entire North American rolling stock fleet.
I took a self driving Lyft down the Strip the last time I was in Las Vegas. There were still plenty of human driven cars around us. It worked just fine.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/lyft-aptiv-self-driving-car-50k-rides/
An "expensive model collector"
Elon Musk is a genius, a modern day da Vinci and then some. Given what he's achieved so far (and he's not even 50 yet) I wouldn't bet against him on self drving vehicles and the colonization of Mars.
zugmann Flintlock76 Back to autonomous trucks, and cars for that matter. Another poster in the know said a year or so ago DON'T believe what the techno-geeks are telling you, 100% reliability is a long, long way off on those things. It's not going to happen anytime soon. I think we'll see it quicker than we think. Can't complain about a lack of decent drivers on one hand, then dismiss pending automation on the other. Maybe not door-door, but at least on interstates.
Flintlock76 Back to autonomous trucks, and cars for that matter. Another poster in the know said a year or so ago DON'T believe what the techno-geeks are telling you, 100% reliability is a long, long way off on those things. It's not going to happen anytime soon.
I think we'll see it quicker than we think. Can't complain about a lack of decent drivers on one hand, then dismiss pending automation on the other. Maybe not door-door, but at least on interstates.
And even if car drivers swoon over self-driving cars, they are bound to worry about self-driving trucks because truck crashes pose greater risk of damage. Before either self-driving trucks or cars are instituted, there will have to be a massive upgrade to the road infrastucture. We will need smart roads with millions of sensors to talk to the self-driving vehicles. Also bear in mind that with self-driving vehicles, will come the mandate to use them. The option of human driving will have to be taken away. So the necessary rapid conversion will pose a problem just like ECP brakes requireing an overnight coversion of the entire North American rolling stock fleet.
But self-driving trains are right around the bend, and will be coming our way easily within a decade. Unlike cars and trucks, self-driving trains can be installed incrementally, starting with the easiest applications. There is no need for an all or nothing conversion. Human operated trains in some applications will probably continue indefinitely. What automatic trains need most are applications of pure running and no work along the way. So the technolgy for trains will begin an evolution of development that transform the entire physical plant into an automatic operation. Some switching will be automated, but a lot of it will be replaced by more specialized fixed consists and fewer loose cars.
Last year I can tell you this much we did over 250 trucks per our Ifta this is a combined with our tanker and van fleets right at 38 million miles for the year. I am going off our IFTA reports for the year. Some drivers did more some less of course but that was the total for the fleet. That comes out to just over 416 miles a day for the entire fleet. Now remember we have several teams that are running a dedicated run to and from SLC to the midwest.
Miningman Better training today? What about the Humboldt Broncos.? https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/world/canada/humboldt-hockey-team-bus-crash.html
Better training today? What about the Humboldt Broncos.?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/08/world/canada/humboldt-hockey-team-bus-crash.html
He ran a stop sign. Lack of training? Poor training? I don't think so. Surely he knew what a stop sign is.. surely he knew what a brake pedal is. Bringing the truck to a stop would have required him to a) place his right foot over the brake pedal and b) apply downward pressure to the pedal. We need a course for that? Then perhaps we need a course called STOP 101 too.. a 20 hour course about stop signs and what they mean. The accident was due to driver lack of care and attention, not lack of skills and training.
Miningman Sorry about that Wayne. Try this: https://globalnews.ca/video/4903850/humboldt-broncos-crash-what-the-rcmp-forensics-team-found
Sorry about that Wayne.
Try this:
https://globalnews.ca/video/4903850/humboldt-broncos-crash-what-the-rcmp-forensics-team-found
Truly horriffic Vince, the trucker must have been asleep at the wheel, or something.
For a view of the general crazyness on the road have a look at a Facebook page I just found out about recently.
It's called "The Route 80 Rant Page," and it covers the section of US Route 80 in New Jersey from the Pennsylvania border to the George Washington Bridge. It's a little "primal scream therapy" for the commuters and others who use Route 80 on a daily basis. Those who have dash-cams, both drivers and truckers, post videos of the wacky stuff they see all too often.
Some of this is hysterically funny, some tragic, some will have you shaking your head in disbelief. And the question is, just how is an autonomous anything supposed to deal with this?
Be warned before you click, there's some VERY ROUGH LANGUAGE used by some of the participants! If you ever watched "The Sopranos" you get the idea, so if you're offended by the same don't go to the "Rant Page."
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1959587334362143/
Shadow the Cats owner I have drivers now in their 20's that complain if they have to run over 2500 miles a week. My husband was screaming bloody murder at his dispatcher in the 90's if he had less than 3K miles a week on his paycheck. My hubby today even with these current HOS regualtions would run rings around most of the current guys.
I am very pleased that you chose to chime in on this thread, you have provided much needed practical insight.
With regard to the portion of your post that I have copied above, would you please elaborate on what your fleet-wide daily average is for miles?
I'm trying to qualify your comment in the context if it really is the miles of driving that bothers them, or if it's the number of days per week they have to drive in order to fulfill those miles that bother's them?
Flintlock76Back to autonomous trucks, and cars for that matter. Another poster in the know said a year or so ago DON'T believe what the techno-geeks are telling you, 100% reliability is a long, long way off on those things. It's not going to happen anytime soon.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Gents, I've had two New York Times linked articles today that I couldn't see as I'm not an on-line subscriber. I'm not PO'd about it by any means, but a word to the wise, the Times isn't giving it away, at least not to me, probably others as well.
Back to autonomous trucks, and cars for that matter. Another poster in the know said a year or so ago DON'T believe what the techno-geeks are telling you, 100% reliability is a long, long way off on those things. It's not going to happen anytime soon.
You'll probably see more use of autonomous trains long before then, and I'm not crazy about those either, depending on where they're used. Way out in a howling wilderness with no "civilians" around, maybe. In populated areas, I'm not so sure.
Ulrich I'm comparing trucks and required skills today compared to what was required 20 or 30 years ago. Today's equipment is much easier to operate..(I've got experience on both and most everything in between). From that standpoint technology has helped to alleviate the driver shortage. Moreover, 30 years ago hearing loss and back problems were a given.. not anymore.. everything better now..due to these changes the profession is now more open to people who aren't mechanically inclined not to mention women. Not many people today get into a semi thinking its a pickup. The training is much better today too. My own training in 1979 consisted of the following words: "swing wide and don't hit nothin" end of training, and I picked it up from there. Can't get away with that anymore! Things are way better today.. can't even compare it although some of the old timers with no hearing and back problems will dig in their heels and disagree. "As for autonomous trucks.. they're coming.. give it five years.. 10 years max. "
I'm comparing trucks and required skills today compared to what was required 20 or 30 years ago. Today's equipment is much easier to operate..(I've got experience on both and most everything in between). From that standpoint technology has helped to alleviate the driver shortage. Moreover, 30 years ago hearing loss and back problems were a given.. not anymore.. everything better now..due to these changes the profession is now more open to people who aren't mechanically inclined not to mention women.
Not many people today get into a semi thinking its a pickup. The training is much better today too. My own training in 1979 consisted of the following words: "swing wide and don't hit nothin" end of training, and I picked it up from there. Can't get away with that anymore! Things are way better today.. can't even compare it although some of the old timers with no hearing and back problems will dig in their heels and disagree.
"As for autonomous trucks.. they're coming.. give it five years.. 10 years max. "
First: Ulrich... As toyour first OTR training, mine was similar. In 1961 I was asked if I wanted a job, driving a truck? My experience at that time was mainly, military duce and a half in USMC( R)... So what did I know? I said "SURE!".. I was hired on the spot...My first truck was a B-61 Mack(no sleeper) witrh a very long wheelbase, and a quadraplex trans. My first load was a load of rough lumber to a town in central Mississippi, about 250 miles. Concrete pipe back. By the time I got back, I finally figured out how to shift it and not run over signs on corners. Training then? It was pat' em on the bottom, and throw 'em to the wolves.
As to the statement about autonomous trucks....I am not sure the world is quite ready for AI and trucking? ... IF it happens, I just hope we can all aford the Insurance Premiums....
Sorry very bad day here personally. Why I just found out that a niece of mine is being abused by her brother and has been for years and instead of being helped by her parents they instead thought she was lying and making it up. It literally took her trying to commit suicide for anyone to pay attention to her. Now she is finally getting the help she needs. Not the news I needed to get today at work. This girl has been thru hell over the last few years and her parents thought she was making it up. Instead they are now under investigation for child abuse and her brothers are possibly looking at prison for abuse.
I think Ulrich knows something about trucking, enough so as to not be so abruptly dismissed.
As for autonomous trucks.. they're coming.. give it five years.. 10 years max.
And therein lies the problem - drivers who get into a semi and think they're still driving a pick-up.
We had some of that back when the fire service first started changing over to automatic transmissions. Now it's hard to buy a fire truck with a standard.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Actually no Ulrich your not even close when it comes to the braking systems alone along with the coupling systems for the trailers load securement requirements if hauling flatbed or hazmat regulations that alone will drive you insane. There is a huge difference between an airbrake system over a hydraulic or electric brake system especially when it comes to reaction times and stopping distance. It can take over 100 feet for the brakes on an OTR truck to even fully apply at 70 MPH. We consider ourselves lucky to stop in 500 feet. Most modern pickups even with a full load in the bed can do that in under 200. Even with 5 axles of disc brakes the best we can do is 450 feet from 70 fully loaded and longer if empty why more if empty the truck loses traction and the ABS kicks in.
SD70Dude Shadow the Cats owner People do not realize it but there is about to be a crisis in the OTR industry. Why the older drivers and company owners are about to hang it up. I am talking the people that started carriers around the time of Deregulation in the early 80's and when they do you think the current crop of drivers are going to be able to pick up the slack. I have drivers now in their 20's that complain if they have to run over 2500 miles a week. My husband was screaming bloody murder at his dispatcher in the 90's if he had less than 3K miles a week on his paycheck. My hubby today even with these current HOS regualtions would run rings around most of the current guys. We have some people come in here complain that we do not provide a Xbox in the truck for them. Yeah it is getting that bad anymore. But I thought self-driving trucks were going to save the day
Shadow the Cats owner People do not realize it but there is about to be a crisis in the OTR industry. Why the older drivers and company owners are about to hang it up. I am talking the people that started carriers around the time of Deregulation in the early 80's and when they do you think the current crop of drivers are going to be able to pick up the slack. I have drivers now in their 20's that complain if they have to run over 2500 miles a week. My husband was screaming bloody murder at his dispatcher in the 90's if he had less than 3K miles a week on his paycheck. My hubby today even with these current HOS regualtions would run rings around most of the current guys. We have some people come in here complain that we do not provide a Xbox in the truck for them. Yeah it is getting that bad anymore.
People do not realize it but there is about to be a crisis in the OTR industry. Why the older drivers and company owners are about to hang it up. I am talking the people that started carriers around the time of Deregulation in the early 80's and when they do you think the current crop of drivers are going to be able to pick up the slack. I have drivers now in their 20's that complain if they have to run over 2500 miles a week. My husband was screaming bloody murder at his dispatcher in the 90's if he had less than 3K miles a week on his paycheck. My hubby today even with these current HOS regualtions would run rings around most of the current guys. We have some people come in here complain that we do not provide a Xbox in the truck for them. Yeah it is getting that bad anymore.
But I thought self-driving trucks were going to save the day
No self drive trucks yet, but we have the next best thing... easy to drive trucks. Trucks so easy to drive that if you can drive a pickup you're 75% of the way there.
York1 mvlandsw The state of Pennsylvania claimed that Allstate was using a program to determine how much of a rate increase a customer would tolerate before changing insurance companies. To me, this sounds like good business practice. If you have a product for sale, it would be silly to price it lower than what someone would pay. It's not greed, it's common sense.
mvlandsw The state of Pennsylvania claimed that Allstate was using a program to determine how much of a rate increase a customer would tolerate before changing insurance companies.
To me, this sounds like good business practice.
If you have a product for sale, it would be silly to price it lower than what someone would pay.
It's not greed, it's common sense.
That's fine if you have a choice to buy a product or service or not buy it. When government tells you that you must buy it, the company can charge as much as they want unless there is regulation or effective competition.
TO "Shadow's OWNER"...I read your previous post!
My one thought was "...I am so glad that I was able to retire from Dispatch{JIT,etc} and Trucking{22 yrs OTR} in 2002..."
'Way back when'...It was getting crazier and crazier, even almost 20 years ago...Dispatch the, was almost insane!
Drivers who could, or would, not read their maps {Company supplied Rand-McNally. A new Trucker's Edition Map to each driver at Orientation; Every truck had an installed alarm clock { assistance with delivery time on JIT Loads}, and Qualcom in each truck.... Not to mention, we had at least a half dozen drivers whos job was to go out and' recover' abandoned equipment, and loads... AND That was before "SwiftTrans" bought us out! ...
You Betcha! My hat is off to you, and your bosses! To operate in this "NEW" environment- Federal H.O.S rules and logging...
"Heck of a way to run a railroad!" ...
SD70Dude Shadow the Cats owner We have some people come in here complain that we do not provide a Xbox in the truck for them. Yeah it is getting that bad anymore. But I thought self-driving trucks were going to save the day
Shadow the Cats owner We have some people come in here complain that we do not provide a Xbox in the truck for them. Yeah it is getting that bad anymore.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
At least I made you laugh!
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Excuse me while I clean the tea off my montior from laughing so freaking hard. Those so called self driving trucks have no clue what to do when someone cuts them off in heavy traffic can not open their own trailer doors refuel themselves handle an emergency on the road such as a blown tire bad weather or other issues that crop up. They still require a driver in them to monitor the situation and take over if something goes wrong. Around here we have a saying for those who want to see a self driving truck. Tesla has a system on their cars that does drive the cars for the people. Tesla has killed more of their own customers in the last few years than my drivers have in the last decade from getting confused on the roads. IIRC there have been over a dozen crashes were Teslas on Autopilot either drove off the roadway into barricades under trucks or other obstacles in their way. We all have complained about how PTC does not work properly now imagine a truck weighing 80K pounds loaded with some of the nastiest stuff around in a city with a computer driving it loses where it is in traffic takes out a freaking School Bus. Sorry but it will not be allowed to happen by the Regualtors and the Politicans in this nation. Why the carnage they could create. The FMCSA learned a huge lesson in the 70's when they tried the first time to mandate ABS systems on the OTR industry with their 121 standard. Drivers would be coming down a mountain need to slow down and find out they HAD NO BRAKES at all. Why the 121 brake system failed and blocked the brakes from even working at all. Carriers started to replace the systems with standard braking systems less than 6 months later. Also do not believe those that say capacity is larger than needed. We here are running at full capacity and have been even through the so called trade war. Yes certain areas have slowed down the Automotive carriers got hit by the GM strike a bit however we are seeing an uptick in demand since USMCA was passed here in the States plus an uptick since China and the USA signed that phase 1 deal.
The carriers that collasped last year for the most part where being run by Vulture Capitalists except for Celadon which had been cooking their books for years and got caught in 2015 and they are still under lawsuits by multiple parties. NEMF and the other LTL places where being hamstrung by Labor issues aka the Teamsters that still think it takes 10 drivers to move a load 1000 miles. Yeah they are that bad at times. Then throw in lack of flexiblity in the HOS and it was a perfect storm that caught several other smaller places. Those that had been running Elogs prior to the change mandate were already used to them. Those that had not made the switch are the ones having issues.
BaltACDYou made money and became a Billionaire at $10 a unit, but you want to be a Trillionaire and think you can gouge our $100 a unit. Unless, competition develops a competing product that your customers turn too - then you can file for bankruptcy because of your greed. You could even make a casino go bankrupt.
What makes you think competition wouldn't develop and sell it for $95 a unit, undercutting me?
If you're correct, then what do you propose?
Do you want companies to sell products for less than what is possible? How much less? Who determines how much?
York1 John
BaltACD You could even make a casino go bankrupt.
You could even make a casino go bankrupt.
Who would have ever thought that could be possible. Isn't the House always supposed to win?
York1 BaltACD Gouging is Gouging - no matter the industry. In many cases cheaper insurance results in poorer coverage under the guise of it being the 'same' coverage - problem is no on EVER knows how good or bad the coverage is until it has to be used. 1. The car insurance company had a program to find the highest price they could charge before the customer went to a different company. 2. Here is the customer who found the rates too high: "When I bought two new cars a few years ago I thought the large increase was excessive and went to an insurance agent looking for new coverage. The agent looked at the rate that Allstate wanted and asked if I had multiple accidents or dui's. None of that applied. She found better coverage with another company for less than half the cost." 3. The customer bought better insurance for a lower price. Customer has no idea of whether the insurance is better or worse until he needs to file a claim. Will the claim be settled at 100 cents on the dollar or 10 cents on the dollar. All the customer knows when he signs up - it is cheaper, he has no means to judge its 'quality'. What's the alternative? I have a product. I developed the product. I want to sell the product and make money for my work. People are willng and able to buy my product for $10. However, because I'm a nice guy, I'll only charge them $7.
BaltACD Gouging is Gouging - no matter the industry. In many cases cheaper insurance results in poorer coverage under the guise of it being the 'same' coverage - problem is no on EVER knows how good or bad the coverage is until it has to be used.
1. The car insurance company had a program to find the highest price they could charge before the customer went to a different company.
2. Here is the customer who found the rates too high: "When I bought two new cars a few years ago I thought the large increase was excessive and went to an insurance agent looking for new coverage. The agent looked at the rate that Allstate wanted and asked if I had multiple accidents or dui's. None of that applied. She found better coverage with another company for less than half the cost."
3. The customer bought better insurance for a lower price. Customer has no idea of whether the insurance is better or worse until he needs to file a claim. Will the claim be settled at 100 cents on the dollar or 10 cents on the dollar. All the customer knows when he signs up - it is cheaper, he has no means to judge its 'quality'.
What's the alternative? I have a product. I developed the product. I want to sell the product and make money for my work. People are willng and able to buy my product for $10. However, because I'm a nice guy, I'll only charge them $7.
You made money and became a Billionaire at $10 a unit, but you want to be a Trillionaire and think you can gouge our $100 a unit. Unless, competition develops a competing product that your customers turn too - then you can file for bankruptcy because of your greed. You could even make a casino go bankrupt.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
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