Murphy Siding On a similar note- we hear all the bad rap about millenials. I've got one
Sure man,...some of my best friends are millenials.
I recognize that part of our problem is self inflicted, the people our owner hires tend to be the ones who will work for rock bottom, then he hands them to me and says "train 'em"......so we are not getting the best and brightest to begin with.
I think we might live in a time warp of sorts, as well. When our owner first entered the work force, $200/week was a lot of money. So now he's paying his entry level guys twice that, and he thinks he's handing them the keys to Ft Knox.
Luckily for me I retired 2 months ago, and just agreed to stay on part time for pocket money. So it's like having a hobby that pays.
By and large I don't have a problem with "Millenials." All those children out there dressed up like soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, and Coasties are "Millenials," and they're doing a damn good job!
What goes around comes around you know. I remember the antics of the 1960's when some "Boomers" were doing crazy stuff in the streets and our elders thought the world was going to hell in a handbasket. Now who's the elders?
"OK, Boomer!"
Quoting the One with Convictions "Seriusly though Deggesty, from the look of those whiskers, it's been many a moon since anyone called you "new hire"...lol" Yes, I lasted several years with the company--and was not asked to retire, though at one meeting the plant manager remarked that I hired on the year that the hospitals for people with impaired minds discharged many. I was given a party when I did retire.
Johnny
Convicted One Flintlock76 Interesting what you mentioned "C-O," about the "...lack of a work ethic." I don't want to go off on a huge tangent, but "will to work" has been an achilles heel for the past several entry level positions we have filled. I can train anybody who is being honest, and willing to follow directions. Just keeping them away from their text buddies can be aggravating. Hired one guy, and on his first day I told him smart phones while on the clock were not permissable. Through his first 4 days I watched him rack up at least 45 minutes during each 8 hour shift (outside of lunch and official breaks) I kept giving him polite reminders, and they lasted only until the next time he believed he had me buffaloed, dodging into back rooms and the like. It was so obvious that I started following him each time he ducked out of sight, only to catch him red handed. Finally I caught him one time and decided I had enough, and told him to take his phone out to his car and leave it there. He quit the next day. Never even showed up. These youngsters are bonded to those things. Had another one, 19 years old. Had real problems with absenteeism and tardiness the first two weeks he was on the job. Fired him. His response? He asked "well how will I pay my bills then?" As if I was supposed to care. These are typical of what I've been seeing.
Flintlock76 Interesting what you mentioned "C-O," about the "...lack of a work ethic."
I don't want to go off on a huge tangent, but "will to work" has been an achilles heel for the past several entry level positions we have filled.
I can train anybody who is being honest, and willing to follow directions.
Just keeping them away from their text buddies can be aggravating.
Hired one guy, and on his first day I told him smart phones while on the clock were not permissable. Through his first 4 days I watched him rack up at least 45 minutes during each 8 hour shift (outside of lunch and official breaks)
I kept giving him polite reminders, and they lasted only until the next time he believed he had me buffaloed, dodging into back rooms and the like. It was so obvious that I started following him each time he ducked out of sight, only to catch him red handed.
Finally I caught him one time and decided I had enough, and told him to take his phone out to his car and leave it there.
He quit the next day. Never even showed up.
These youngsters are bonded to those things.
Had another one, 19 years old. Had real problems with absenteeism and tardiness the first two weeks he was on the job. Fired him. His response? He asked "well how will I pay my bills then?"
As if I was supposed to care.
These are typical of what I've been seeing.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
DeggestyWhen I was given the responsibilty for raw material, I was able to take care of other matters that I saw should be done after handling my primary responsibility.
Seriusly though Deggesty, from the look of those whiskers, it's been many a moon since anyone called you "new hire"...lol
I suspect that you "came up" back when people still wanted to work.
Some times I get the feeling that these kids are playing me the same way they play their parents. They just haven't yet dealt with a world where they have to earn any respect they hope to gather.
SO, I guess I'm really doing many of them a favor, introducing them to the real world.
I'd say approx 1 in 5 of the entry level people we hire actually impress me as wanting to excell.
The good news being that the ineptness of the other 4 only reinforces my value to the organization.
It was bad enough before smartphones were available when you had empoyees who liked to gab, especially when a like person came by. There was a time when the man responsible for receiving incoming raw material was one who would rather talk with other employees than tend to his responsibilities. His supervisor at last traded him with another supervisor who took care of chemicals and cylinder gases--these items were delivered by truck and he had to unload them and put them away when the trucks arrived.
When I was given the responsibilty for raw material, I was able to take care of other matters that I saw should be done after handling my primary responsibility.
Flintlock76Interesting what you mentioned "C-O," about the "...lack of a work ethic."
Thank you Paul, I really wasn't in the mood to spell it out.
And Charlie, I know you're a "Warbird" fan, (You were pretty PO'd at that great "Warbird" thread getting locked just as I was) so you know some pretty good stuff has come out of the "Military-Industrial Complex." They're not saints, by any means, none of us are, but they do get it right more often than not.
By the way, do you miss drooling over that Oshkosh Fly-In live feed as much as I do?
And just so everyone knows, I am not in favor of a re-institution of the draft, or any kind of coerced "public service." Not a topic for discussion here so that's all I'll say about it.
charlie hebdo BaltACD charlie hebdo You're joking in regard to the military, right? An examination of the pork in defense contracting would suggest otherwise. It all depends on what the aim of the military contract is and who is looking at it. From a cost perspective. From a employment perspective. From a profit perspective and a multitude of other perspectives. From the perspectives of value, honesty and ethics, the military record is pretty dismal with regard to procurement contracts. Ike had it pegged: the Military Industrial Complex. He was going to add the Intelligence community and call it a corrupt triad, but decided to be cautious.
BaltACD charlie hebdo You're joking in regard to the military, right? An examination of the pork in defense contracting would suggest otherwise. It all depends on what the aim of the military contract is and who is looking at it. From a cost perspective. From a employment perspective. From a profit perspective and a multitude of other perspectives.
charlie hebdo You're joking in regard to the military, right? An examination of the pork in defense contracting would suggest otherwise.
It all depends on what the aim of the military contract is and who is looking at it. From a cost perspective. From a employment perspective. From a profit perspective and a multitude of other perspectives.
From the perspectives of value, honesty and ethics, the military record is pretty dismal with regard to procurement contracts. Ike had it pegged: the Military Industrial Complex. He was going to add the Intelligence community and call it a corrupt triad, but decided to be cautious.
Again, Flintlock is not talking about the upper levels of procurements and contracts and political wheeling and dealing. He's talking about the training of the rank and file. When I joined the army, I had a considerable knowledge of electronics through learning on my own, then two years of college electrical engineering (no degree). I feel that almost a year of training in radar and missle fire control in the army was probably the most valuable to me in later life.
I've mentioned this before, but around 1990-ish, I was talking to my branch manager who had had to let two new-hires go because of complaints from customers about arrogance and rudeness. He lamented the fact that he was having trouble finding competent people to hire and attributed it partly to the lack of the draft. Almost all of my co-workers had served in the military, and frankly, if it had not been for the draft, I never would have enlisted. I now consider it one of the best things I could have done. Many young people's only experience was something like a six-week diploma mill school, and they came out thinking they knew it all.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
greyhounds This is an article from the Wall Street Journal about how truckers' insurance rates are skyrocketing. It's behind a paywall. https://www.wsj.com/articles/surging-truck-insurance-rates-hit-freight-operators-1157893483 So possibly a trucker could save money by railing the load and reducing his/her own liability along with the insurance carrier's liability. (If the train has an incident it's on the railroad, not the trucker.) This should lead to lower insurance costs for the trucker. And truckers are in dire need of lower costs. Please don't tell me about "Geedy" insurance companies. I'm retired from Allstate and I know how insurance prices are set. It's a very competitive line of business and any company that gets "Greedy" will quickly loose its customers. And, another thing. On another site there was a picture of some Hub Group reefer containers. They were of the new high cube type made possible by a new Thermo King design. So Hub Group has joined the reefer parade. That's a big change. Hub Group was founded Phill Yeager, who, I was told, "Hated" reefers. He's with God now, and the acquisition of reefer containers by Hub is a good change. There's a whole lot of business out there to be gained by the railroads, so don't be all doom and gloom. We've got to see opportunities as much as we see problems.
This is an article from the Wall Street Journal about how truckers' insurance rates are skyrocketing. It's behind a paywall.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/surging-truck-insurance-rates-hit-freight-operators-1157893483
So possibly a trucker could save money by railing the load and reducing his/her own liability along with the insurance carrier's liability. (If the train has an incident it's on the railroad, not the trucker.) This should lead to lower insurance costs for the trucker. And truckers are in dire need of lower costs.
Please don't tell me about "Geedy" insurance companies. I'm retired from Allstate and I know how insurance prices are set. It's a very competitive line of business and any company that gets "Greedy" will quickly loose its customers.
And, another thing.
On another site there was a picture of some Hub Group reefer containers. They were of the new high cube type made possible by a new Thermo King design. So Hub Group has joined the reefer parade. That's a big change. Hub Group was founded Phill Yeager, who, I was told, "Hated" reefers. He's with God now, and the acquisition of reefer containers by Hub is a good change. There's a whole lot of business out there to be gained by the railroads, so don't be all doom and gloom.
We've got to see opportunities as much as we see problems.
That last sentence says it all. There IS alot of opportunity out there.. lots of freight currently going down the road that could very easliy be converted to rail. Like Gretta Thunberg said.. and she's right.. climate change is real and the time to act was yesterday. In that context trucking for p&d and rail for the linehaul is a good model I think.
charlie hebdoYou're joking in regard to the military, right? An examination of the pork in defense contracting would suggest otherwise.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Pork in defense contracting is another matter. I know it's real, and I know it exists, but that's the result of collaboration between defense contractors, politicians of both parties, and the (sometimes) involvement of the top brass. And remember, if you want to get multiple stars on your shoulders you have to be a bit of a politician and system-worker yourself. That's just the way it is. I don't like it, you don't like it, and rest assured most of the folks in uniform don't like it either.
When I speak about leadership I'm talking about leading "troops in the field" of all types, combat arms and supporting services.
And keep in mind, I did say the system wasn't perfect, it just works better than anything else.
And there are generals and admirals that their various services won't let anywhere near Washington DC! They're afraid those guys and gals may strangle a senator or congressman or two given the chance!
You're joking in regard to the military, right? An examination of the pork in defense contracting would suggest otherwise.
BaltACD Flintlock76 Interesting what you mentioned "C-O," about the "...lack of a work ethic." I was reading an industrial magazine several years ago, and there was a letter to the editor from a plant manger who stated the problem he had with many new hires wasn't that they didn't want to work, they didn't know how to work! So before he could train them on the various jobs he had to train them on the basics, time management, working efficiently, and blending working hard and working smart. "Where's the fault?" he asked. Where indeed? And then you have management types that can't tell the difference between working smart and working hard - when you are working smart you aren't expending as much energy and time as those that are working dumb. Where do the management types learn to manage? Where indeed? The beatings will continue until moral improves.
Flintlock76 Interesting what you mentioned "C-O," about the "...lack of a work ethic." I was reading an industrial magazine several years ago, and there was a letter to the editor from a plant manger who stated the problem he had with many new hires wasn't that they didn't want to work, they didn't know how to work! So before he could train them on the various jobs he had to train them on the basics, time management, working efficiently, and blending working hard and working smart. "Where's the fault?" he asked. Where indeed?
I was reading an industrial magazine several years ago, and there was a letter to the editor from a plant manger who stated the problem he had with many new hires wasn't that they didn't want to work, they didn't know how to work! So before he could train them on the various jobs he had to train them on the basics, time management, working efficiently, and blending working hard and working smart. "Where's the fault?" he asked. Where indeed?
And then you have management types that can't tell the difference between working smart and working hard - when you are working smart you aren't expending as much energy and time as those that are working dumb.
Where do the management types learn to manage? Where indeed?
The beatings will continue until moral improves.
The only management/leadership school in the world I'm aware of that works, at least 75% of the time, is the military. Nothing else comes close.
I have to say 75% of the time because let's face it, nothing's perfect.
In the civilian world, short of "up from the ranks" experience, with those above watching the outstanding performers all the way nothing else works. It can and has been done. A degree, an MBA, or any other kind of piece of paper is no guarantee of leadership, management, or even basic people skills.
In the business I just retired from the best overall managers, by that I mean overseeing all departments, came from the sales division. They knew people and how to deal with various types from their "in the trenches" first-hand experience. In the technical division tha I was in, all the managers started as technicians themselves, the knew the techs and knew the product.
There was a great "Dilbert" comic several years ago where one of the characters, Alice, asks a new manager how he came by the position. "I've got an MBA!" he says. Alice replies, "So, you got the manager's job just because you're good at math?"
When we do hire the newest generation how we break them into the need to work hard is very simple they are sent with a trainer for 3 months. For the first month the trainee does 100 percent of the driving and we watch how far the loads are scheduled to make sure they can get there on time. Then the 2nd month we start to run them farther and the trainer starts to drive about 33% of the time. Then the last month the first part of the month they are doing the 66-33% split and then the 3 weeks if possible or last 2 weeks minimum they are running a team schedule. If they make it thru the first month normally they make it. When we do hire new trainees we expect to lose 20-30 percent of them. Why they can not handle the needs of the job. Yet those that make it become some of the best drivers I have ever seen. Who created this program that we put in a couple years ago. I can honestly say it was my husband. He approached my now boss when he was operations manager and said you need to toughen up the newest crop of drivers. So the now owner asked how to do it. My hubby laid out a 3 month training schedule that would teach the newest drivers what it means to be an OTR driver in today's world. Those that have made it thru the program thank me personally for having such a bright husband that showed them how to make this work. They know that this is a hard job but it pays well. Heck I just hired a 20 year vet of the industry. The first thing he asked me if I was married to my husband. When I said yes he was like he trained ME 20 years ago and to this day he made me into what I am. He was one of the rare direct hires into our hazmat tanker fleet normally we hire from within.
A speaker (a fire chief for a large department) at a fire conference last year told us that he's now getting recruits who have effectively never heard the word "no." A local teacher told me the same thing.
From that we can perhaps extrapolate that mom and dad never tell Junior that "no, he can't play his game, that he has to rake/mow/what-have-you." Can't have Junior hating us because we made him take out the trash! We have to be his friend...
Come to think of it, there's been another casualty of the digital revolution. When I was young, I had a paper route. Up every morning at oh-dark-thirty to deliver the morning edition. Nowadays, our local paper doesn't even publish on Monday, and pretty much everything in the printed paper the rest of the week (except maybe the coupons...) is available on-line.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Flintlock76Interesting what you mentioned "C-O," about the "...lack of a work ethic." I was reading an industrial magazine several years ago, and there was a letter to the editor from a plant manger who stated the problem he had with many new hires wasn't that they didn't want to work, they didn't know how to work! So before he could train them on the various jobs he had to train them on the basics, time management, working efficiently, and blending working hard and working smart. "Where's the fault?" he asked. Where indeed?
Interesting what you mentioned "C-O," about the "...lack of a work ethic."
Shadow the Cats owner That comes out to just over 416 miles a day for the entire fleet
Okay, thanks! That provides a little perspective.
Don't get me wrong, I am frequently appalled by the lack of work ethic apparent in most new hires I've worked with over the past 15 years, and it seems to be getting worse. (non-transportation work).
But to me personally (non-commercial), driving 800+ miles a day on interstate hiways never seemed like too much of a chore, so I was just curious if your youngsters were butting heads with HOS limits that were pushing them into 7 day weeks. Thinking perhaps the time, and not the toil was the lions share of their gripe.
Lithonia Operator CSSHEGEWISCH Ulrich Elon Musk is a genius, a modern day da Vinci and then some. Given what he's achieved so far (and he's not even 50 yet) I wouldn't bet against him on self drving vehicles and the colonization of Mars. I would not be that generous. Consider how he treats people who disagree with him (see the cave rescue in Thailand) or won't let him do as he pleases (the SEC) I agree. The guy is a jerk. History may wind up being kind to him; we shall see; but to me he has the look of someone who's going to crash and burn.
CSSHEGEWISCH Ulrich Elon Musk is a genius, a modern day da Vinci and then some. Given what he's achieved so far (and he's not even 50 yet) I wouldn't bet against him on self drving vehicles and the colonization of Mars. I would not be that generous. Consider how he treats people who disagree with him (see the cave rescue in Thailand) or won't let him do as he pleases (the SEC)
Ulrich Elon Musk is a genius, a modern day da Vinci and then some. Given what he's achieved so far (and he's not even 50 yet) I wouldn't bet against him on self drving vehicles and the colonization of Mars.
Elon Musk is a genius, a modern day da Vinci and then some. Given what he's achieved so far (and he's not even 50 yet) I wouldn't bet against him on self drving vehicles and the colonization of Mars.
I agree. The guy is a jerk. History may wind up being kind to him; we shall see; but to me he has the look of someone who's going to crash and burn.
From what I've read he is a jerk..and an arrogant overbearing nanomanager.. BUT.. he's a genius nontheless.
BaltACD n012944 Flintlock76 Imagine what's going to happen when car-mounted sensors needed for self-driving vehicles start to gunk up from road grime, dust, mud, road salt residue and other nasties if the vehicles owner doesn't clean them on a regular basis. In a car it would be no big deal. When the car detects it has a dirty sensor, it kicks itself out of automatic mode, and makes the driver take over. My car has adaptive cruise control, that allows the car to brake and keep up with traffic without my imput. If one of the sensors is too dirty, it will not allow me to ingage it, and will give me a warning on the dashboard. Really isn't a big deal. Screw adaptive cruise control. I control when it is on or off.
n012944 Flintlock76 Imagine what's going to happen when car-mounted sensors needed for self-driving vehicles start to gunk up from road grime, dust, mud, road salt residue and other nasties if the vehicles owner doesn't clean them on a regular basis. In a car it would be no big deal. When the car detects it has a dirty sensor, it kicks itself out of automatic mode, and makes the driver take over. My car has adaptive cruise control, that allows the car to brake and keep up with traffic without my imput. If one of the sensors is too dirty, it will not allow me to ingage it, and will give me a warning on the dashboard. Really isn't a big deal.
Flintlock76 Imagine what's going to happen when car-mounted sensors needed for self-driving vehicles start to gunk up from road grime, dust, mud, road salt residue and other nasties if the vehicles owner doesn't clean them on a regular basis.
Imagine what's going to happen when car-mounted sensors needed for self-driving vehicles start to gunk up from road grime, dust, mud, road salt residue and other nasties if the vehicles owner doesn't clean them on a regular basis.
In a car it would be no big deal. When the car detects it has a dirty sensor, it kicks itself out of automatic mode, and makes the driver take over. My car has adaptive cruise control, that allows the car to brake and keep up with traffic without my imput. If one of the sensors is too dirty, it will not allow me to ingage it, and will give me a warning on the dashboard. Really isn't a big deal.
Screw adaptive cruise control. I control when it is on or off.
Good for you. My guess is you have not used it.
An "expensive model collector"
Flintlock76Take it from one who had to deal with them for thirty years, path sensors, drum potential sensors, density sensors, size sensors, temerature sensors, you name it, if you don't keep 'em clean they don't work.
For reinforcement of your point, come on up to the north country, where a wind driven (and we're not talking gale force - 5-10 MPH will do it) will easily paste wet snow on road signs as it is, rendering them unreadable. And we have the people who can't be bothered to clean off their entire windshield, much less the rest of the windows, roof, etc. They probably won't keep the sensors cleared of snow, either.
And, of course, there's all that road salt and sand that gets spread on the roads...
GM did some work with self driving cars back in the 1960's - I saw it demonstrated at an open house at GM's Milford Proving Grounds. The key component was a wire buried in the pavement, which a bumper-mounted sensor followed.
For that matter, the big model layout in Munich uses autonomous vehicles which follow a wire in the roads. They are not completely captive to one wire, as the vehicles are reportedly smart enough to drive to a charging area when their battery gets low.
Of course, the cost of such an installation would be astronomical, even if it was gradually brought out (ie, start with the Interstates). And, if these self-driving systems adhere to the posted speed limits, speeding ticket revenue will drop to zero...
Interestingly enough, 'sensor integrity' -- including how the devices degrade, gracefully or otherwise, and how to keep them reliably 'sensing' under dirty and damaging conditions, has been of high interest since before the original 'automatic highway' research in the late 1940s. One of the reasons to keep RF 'in the mix' when THz and lidar are more 'capable' is precisely the effect of "contamination" in various ways on light transmission. The 'default' is that the vehicle will not enter full autonomous mode if 'too much' of the massive redundancy is not present, or that it shuts off autonomy and goes to safe shutdown 'while it still can' if the going gets too tough. In a great many of the hypothetical cases human drivers would be having objective safety issues before autonomous vehicles actually would...
Thanks Johhny!
Although, the one problem with a horse is you can't shut it off, you can only put it in "neutral." Of course, then it's idling and still generating "exhaust."
Wayne
"The closest thing we've ever had to a self-driving vehicle that worked was the horse-drawn carriage. The road carnage began when drivers didn't have a horse to help them with the thinking."
Well said, Wayne!
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