I always tell new guys (or my conductors that I ramble off to in the hope they may some day find a kernal of wisdom in my fields of free advice) to always go outside and check their headlights when it's daylight and they are taking over a train/swapping an engine/changing ends etc. Just in case a headlight switch is messed up, or a breaker is dropped.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann SD70Dude Older units that have been retrofitted with ditchlights often have a separate on/off switch for them on the control stand, they are not affected at all by the headlight switches. On these units it is possible to turn the headlight off and still have the ditchlights on, thereby unknowingly blinding oncoming trains/traffic during the day. Some of ours had the ditchlights wired into the reverser. So they would "follow" the reverser and shine whichever way it was thrown.
SD70Dude Older units that have been retrofitted with ditchlights often have a separate on/off switch for them on the control stand, they are not affected at all by the headlight switches. On these units it is possible to turn the headlight off and still have the ditchlights on, thereby unknowingly blinding oncoming trains/traffic during the day.
Some of ours had the ditchlights wired into the reverser. So they would "follow" the reverser and shine whichever way it was thrown.
We still have some older units running around with portable ditchlights that run off the MU plug. They turn on whenever the reverser is moved to their direction.
https://www.railpictures.net/photo/367717/
Note the 'white fleet' boarding cars (Atco trailers on flatcars) farther back in the train.
Jeff - I had forgotten about those GE units with the extra position on the headlight switches. Some of our ES44DC's have it too.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
We have some light switches that have Dim, Medium, Bright, and Bright + Auxilary positions. You would think every order would always have the same arrangement, but they don't.
Usually turning the switch all the way to the right would give you bright and ditchlights. One order of GE's had that position as Dim and Ditchlights. Bright and Ditchlights was one position short. One becomes use to turning the switch all the way after dimming the light when required. That set up made one keep on their toes. I haven't seen one like that for awhile. They may have changed out that positioning arrangement.
Jeff
SD70DudeOlder units that have been retrofitted with ditchlights often have a separate on/off switch for them on the control stand, they are not affected at all by the headlight switches. On these units it is possible to turn the headlight off and still have the ditchlights on, thereby unknowingly blinding oncoming trains/traffic during the day.
Thanks, SD70Dude. And I thought the video arcade dashboard in my new car was confusing.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
tree68 Paul of Covington I didn't know you had multiple settings. How many are there? I think most units have two (plus off), ie, low and high. We have one unit that has three, plus off. If you see a DPU on the rear of the train, the headlight will be at the low setting, serving as the rear marker.
Paul of Covington I didn't know you had multiple settings. How many are there?
I think most units have two (plus off), ie, low and high.
We have one unit that has three, plus off.
If you see a DPU on the rear of the train, the headlight will be at the low setting, serving as the rear marker.
It varies between locomotive models and the individual railroad's specifications.
Most modern units have dim, medium and bright. If the ditchlight switch/breaker is turned on, the ditchlights come on automatically when the headlight switch is moved to bright, and turn off again when it is moved to medium.
On CN, SD70 and newer EMD units have ditchlight switches on the control stand. The Engineer is able to select whether or not the ditchlights will turn on at each end of the locomotive when the headlight switch is moved to bright. It's been a while, but I recall the SD60F's as being similar, they of course did not have rear ditchlights.
This setup also allows for proper ditchlight operation at the rear of the locomotive consist when multiple units are coupled together.
The C40-8M's (cowls) and C44-9WL's (four window CN cab) are similar to the EMD's I described above. The rest of the Dash-9's allow you to select which end of the locomotive they will turn on at, but you can only turn them off completely by flicking the breaker.
On all the GEVO's the ditchlights turn on whenever each headlight switch is moved to bright. But GE forgot how to send the ditchlight signal to trailing units. When you have a mutiple unit consist and turn the rear headlight switch to bright the headlight turns on at the far end of the last unit, but the ditchlights only turn on at the rear of the controlling unit. The only way to override this is to turn the ditchlight breaker off.
Older units that have been retrofitted with ditchlights often have a separate on/off switch for them on the control stand, they are not affected at all by the headlight switches. On these units it is possible to turn the headlight off and still have the ditchlights on, thereby unknowingly blinding oncoming trains/traffic during the day.
BigJim jeffhergert I've had the chance to run some with the flashing ditch lights. I prefer the ones that don't. Especially in foggy/misty conditions. I never had any problem with the flashing ditch lights. Didn't bother me at all. However, what did drive me crazy was that the NS purchased SD70's with a bell that was automatically turned on when the horn was blown and you COULD NOT turn the **** thing off!!! You had to wait until it cycled off...grrrr!!!
jeffhergert I've had the chance to run some with the flashing ditch lights. I prefer the ones that don't. Especially in foggy/misty conditions.
I never had any problem with the flashing ditch lights. Didn't bother me at all. However, what did drive me crazy was that the NS purchased SD70's with a bell that was automatically turned on when the horn was blown and you COULD NOT turn the **** thing off!!! You had to wait until it cycled off...grrrr!!!
I suppose it has to do with what you're used too.
I remember once back when I was a conductor, we were on an SD60 where the railroad had wired in an after market alerter. The engineer called my attention to the fact that everytime he blew the horn the sanders came on.
The bell did too, but all the ones we have where the bell comes on with the horn one can shut off the bell. There are times when the bell button won't turn on the bell and you have to blow the horn to get it to ring. The button will still shut it off.
Yes, Even our 1902 Interurban Car #20 headlight has a three position switch, Off, Dim, and Bright. Just like the big boy's
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68Normally, while just sitting there idling, I've got the headlight on the lowest possible brightness, and the auxiliary lights are off.
I didn't know you had multiple settings. How many are there?
BigJimI will say that I did not like it when meeting other trains the engineer would not dim his lights!
I actually feel bad when I'm sitting in the locomotive, waiting for the passengers (600) to board our Polar Express trains. Even though I'm on a completely separate track, and not moving, trains on the CSX main (Chicago Line) will dim their lights for me.
Normally, while just sitting there idling, I've got the headlight on the lowest possible brightness, and the auxiliary lights are off.
I've been known to kill my lights entirely when I first see them coming in the distance.
mvlandswI did not like to run with ditch lights on at night. They are too bright right in front of the engine making it hard to see things further away where there might be time to react to what you see.
I will say that I did not like it when meeting other trains the engineer would not dim his lights!
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zugmannTrue ditch lights lit up ditches. Canadian roads like BC Rail had those for ages. They are usually cross-eyed.'
I hadn't recognized entirely what he meant until seeing the preceding photo of 'mountain lights'. Note the visible cross-eyed look. This gives good 'ditch' and wayside illumination without increasing the glare hazard to oncoming traffic; in other words, just the reverse of the intention of the FRA 'triangle-base' lights.
Overmod SD70Dude PGE/BC Rail called them "corner lights". CN started using portable "mountain lights" in the late 1950s on trains west of Jasper, AB. In both cases the extra lights are angled so you can see better around curves, for the aforementioned rockslides. Let's not forget the Canadian locomotives with the headlight on a horizontal pivot and a cable arrangement to turn it from side to side to light up the ROW around curves or away from the line of the train. A good solution in the days when high-intensity separate ditchlights would have involved something like carbide-generated acetylene...
SD70Dude PGE/BC Rail called them "corner lights". CN started using portable "mountain lights" in the late 1950s on trains west of Jasper, AB. In both cases the extra lights are angled so you can see better around curves, for the aforementioned rockslides.
Let's not forget the Canadian locomotives with the headlight on a horizontal pivot and a cable arrangement to turn it from side to side to light up the ROW around curves or away from the line of the train. A good solution in the days when high-intensity separate ditchlights would have involved something like carbide-generated acetylene...
This actually just came up in a conversation today. Apparently it worked quite well and the crews liked it. The mechanical linkage was connected to the pilot truck, so the headlight turned as the front of the engine entered a curve. And the angle was directly proportional to the degree of curvature.
CN tried movable headlights on the first order of GP7's that had the large barrel headlights (as modeled by 4803), but the mechanism was air-powered. This had a "all or nothing" tendency, and was not considered to work well.
The original "mountain lights" run off the snowplow plug (lower left in the above photo). I am told that they were also used on steam locomotives, although I have never seen a photo of one so equipped.
This also meant that they could be fitted to a diesel unit built without front MU connections, as modelled by 6501:
CSX bells ring when the horn is blown but they can be shut off. You don't have to wait for them to time out. The ditch lights also flash even if not turned on and they do have to time out unless you shut off the switch on the engine control panel.
I did not like to run with ditch lights on at night. They are too bright right in front of the engine making it hard to see things further away where there might be time to react to what you see. Since they flash when you blow the horn, whether they are turned on or not, they provide plenty of warning at grade crossings.
They are good for seeing switch positions at slow speed as in a yard.
Mark
jeffhergertI've had the chance to run some with the flashing ditch lights. I prefer the ones that don't. Especially in foggy/misty conditions.
I haven't run any locomotives with flashing auxiliary lights, nor have I run any with oscillating lights. But they're only flashing for the 20-30 seconds on approach to a crossing - not as distracting as if they were flashing all the time.
I have, however, driven emergency vehicles with alternating high beams - and I've been known to shut them off when they weren't needed. For that matter, most of the alternating high beam systems I have experience with (going back to the late 1960's) override the flashing if the regular high beams are activated. If you're running at night on country roads (which would be the case most of the time for me) you're going to want the high beams on unless you're meeting traffic anyhow.
I haven't driven any emergency vehicles with oscillating lights - although I've seen videos where they were in use. Kind of distracting.
I can see where the flashing feature may not be so great from the engineer's perspective. But for a motorist thinking of beating the train at a grade crossing, to me the flashing adds to a sense of danger, a desirably more intimidating warning.
The Eastern roads seem to like the flashing option. SP did too. The IAIS' GEs were built to CSX standards, so those lights flash. The rest of their fleet doesn't.
I've had the chance to run some with the flashing ditch lights. I prefer the ones that don't. Especially in foggy/misty conditions.
OvermodIf I recall correctly, the orientation video for the P42 locomotive describes the controls to turn the flashing on and off, including how it is 'interlocked' with the horn.
The interlock seems to be the norm on CSX locomotives as well. Watching the Deshler cam you'll easily see it on northbounds as they hit the several crossings.
You'll also see the lights start flashing when they give the usual two toots to start moving. And every now and then you'll see a train moving without the auxiliary lights on (engineer forgot to turn them on), but they'll still start flashing when they hit the horn.
Inasmuch as our locomotives are all vintage, the switches for the auxiliary lights are all over the place, and we don't have the flash option.
The dynamic-brake arrangements for DC locomotives don't involve nearly the size, or the fan capacity, of the main combustion-engine cooling radiators, which on many modern locomotives are tilted in order to increase their effective size: GE traditionally puts them in 'batwings' as seen, for example, on U34CHs; EMD cants them outward (see the difference between the two types of SD70 in the big UP order, as well as the SD45 (early) and 9043MAC (later). On the other hand, the GP50s and 60s generally have no flares, and the tunnel-motor arrangement pointedly lacks extended heat-transfer surface 'up high' on the hood.
DB as you noted is closer to the cab; in many cases it is in a small blister with its own dedicated fan, or in the hood closer to the cab. On the true SD90s with H engine the dynamic brake had an angled frame, whereas on the "9043s" it is straight-sided. Since the elements are much hotter than radiator cores in service, heat transfer from a smaller area is more efficient.
There is no reason to use the 'same' fans and airflow and surface grille for DB and for cooling. In fact, some locomotives split the cooling of the turbocharger intercooler from the cooling of the engine itself ... with neither being associated with dynamics.
BaltACDAmtrak's NEC electric locomotives are double ended since they run between origin and destination and return without need to turn the locomotive, benefiting the overall operation. Amtrak's diesels are single ended; their runs are not 'shuttle' kinds of service;
Extending this a bit: Amtrak's electrics, particularly the ACS64s, are intended to operate primarily as single units, with relatively high horsepower, and therefore it makes sense to double-cab them for speedy reversal without turning. Amtrak's Genesis engines are almost always used in multiple, so you'd need 2x the number of cabs with all the associated paraphernalia, lengthened frame, and weight associated with that. Since you could get the same 'effect' as a double-ended electric simply by coupling two P42s 'cabs-out' it would be of little value to treat each diesel as double-ended. I would note that very seldom does Amtrak seem to use this with its Genesis consists; they apparently prefer to wye or turn them.
The legislation concerning what we call 'ditch lights' is in 49 CFR 229.125 and 229.133. Their purpose according to Federal law is to improve "conspicuity".
The original version in the mid-Nineties specified that the alternate-flashing feature was optional, but if provided had to conform to certain criteria. The flash rate, for example, can be anywhere from 40 to 180 alternations per minute.
The most recent revision of this appears to be in 2012, when there was a bit of clarification regarding what the Government considered these. Now there is a difference between 'strobes' and 'oscillating lights' -- but these aren't what you or I would think those terms meant, and you'd probably be well-advised to read this in the original Federal Register language (referring back to 49 CFR 229.125 as necessary) to be sure you have the right idea.
If I recall correctly, the orientation video for the P42 locomotive describes the controls to turn the flashing on and off, including how it is 'interlocked' with the horn.
On an NS engine I saw yesterday, the ditch lights flashed, alternating side to side, as it approached the grade crossing. I thought that was particularly effective. Maybe "flash" is not exactly correct; they are lit alternately, for a second or two.
SD70DudePGE/BC Rail called them "corner lights". CN started using portable "mountain lights" in the late 1950s on trains west of Jasper, AB. In both cases the extra lights are angled so you can see better around curves, for the aforementioned rockslides.
PGE/BC Rail called them "corner lights". CN started using portable "mountain lights" in the late 1950s on trains west of Jasper, AB. In both cases the extra lights are angled so you can see better around curves, for the aforementioned rockslides.
When running at 15-30 mph with a relatively short train you actually have a chance of stopping before an obstruction, if you can see it in time. The few seconds and few hundred feet of extra visibilty from the ditchlights could be the difference between life and death for the crew.
Murphy Siding What's in the ditch that you want to see?
Really big rocks. They ran through some mountain territories.
zugmann Murphy Siding Do they need to have the ditches illuminated? True ditch lights lit up ditches. Canadian roads like BC Rail had those for ages. They are usually cross-eyed.' What are commonly referred to as "ditch lights" on most engines are actually "auxillary" or "crossing" lights.
Murphy Siding Do they need to have the ditches illuminated?
True ditch lights lit up ditches. Canadian roads like BC Rail had those for ages. They are usually cross-eyed.'
What are commonly referred to as "ditch lights" on most engines are actually "auxillary" or "crossing" lights.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy SidingSeeing the three light pattern tells my brain it's a train, but that's just a railfan thing because I'm used to looking for it. Do the ditch lights really preform a service for the train crew? Do they need to have the ditches illuminated?
The German railroads in the mid-1970s had a three-white-light triangle pattern on their locomotives, and I understood that it provided just this sort of gauge of absolute distance and speed with a little proportional 'experience.' This made enough of an impression on me that my subsequent designs featured its analogue with American sealed-beam lights (a full FRA-compliant headlight being at the 'apex' of the triangle)
There's a bit of a problem with the way FRA implemented the ditch lights in that the size of the 'triangle' is not fixed -- only the presence of the three light locations. When the 'base of the triangle' is restricted as it is on the chipmunk-faced F units the experienced grasp of distance is thrown off. That is a rookie mistake in haptics.
I have seen ditch lights with beams oriented slightly 'wall-eyed' on both KCS in Shreveport and SP/SSW south of Brinkley down to Bossier City. KCS added to this a 'scanning' circular Gyralight-type beam that picked out a great deal of surrounding ROW and bridge detail that no fixed lights bearable to oncoming traffic could provide. To me it makes better sense to have a pattern pointed 'where headlights would aim' rather than as the equivalent of high beams to give oncoming traffic the longest possible glare blindness as an 'optical alert'. Alternate flashing does that better, and doesn't in fact require full brilliance straight ahead to work well. (Provided the pattern spacing is familiar!)
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