TRAIN WECK IN Granitville,SC

[CleveUnionTerm]

Wabash1 use a little "common sense"...you're running 55MPH at nite and you think you
own the railroad, but you also know your territory.... there is a (plant with a switch/switches) ahead....you continue to make track speed, but also
subconsciously you say "hey maybe the local is still working late? or something could
be fouling the main, duh, duh, lets look for the switch target or switch alignment. Not the time to reach down for your next sandwich or check your earrings....and lets say the switch IS against you, and just MAYBE you can "BIG HOLE" it sooner more than later!!! That's the point I am trying to make!
If you think you're such a "hot runner" try working a 16 hours day, off 8 hours and back for another 16....day after day. REMEMBER SAFETY FIRST! If you think you need to
stop and look at the switch.... you do it, peoples lives depend on it! And you're
right, you should slow/stop and flag a crossing if safety conditions dictate.
C.C.C.& St.L Ry.
*For those born after 1976....there was a railroad at one time called the
BIG FOUR (New York Central), I know you've heard of CONRAIL, right?

[jeaton]

There is something I don't get. I don't like speculating on these things, but...

According to reports, the switch was found open for the siding, but locked. Now I haven't seen anything about the work that the local crew was doing, but it seems to me that in almost any circumstance, the open switch would be left unlocked. If the job pulled off the main just before tie up, it seems that the conductor of brakeman would have opened the switch, let the train pass, closed the switch lined for the main and locked. If the train was working on the siding (isn't it an industry lead) for a while before tie up, it also seems that the switch would have been closed and locked. I guess that it is possible that the open switched would be locked just so someone didn't come by and steal the lock, but it just leaves me puzzled.

I'll leave it to those of you that walk the rocks to explain the typical drill on this.

Jay

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

QUOTE: Originally posted by CleveUnionTerm

What kind of marker did the switch (have/use) to show its alignment at the wreck site?
A key to safe railroading is to know your territory and to be alert to all switches therein.
Never take switch alignment for granted wherever you run.
C.C.C.& St.L. Ry.

never take switch alignment for granted. so you are saying that at 55mph i should slow down 1 mile before i get to the switch make sure it is right then go back to notch 8 for 2 miles slow down again until i get to crew change point. ... why dont i just stop and flag all crossing also .

FOFLMAO...

Wabash, while you're at it how 'bout having cab signals installed and electric locks on all switches off the main??

CC- Have you ever run a train at 40+ mph??? Seeing a switch target at 2:40am from any distance in your headlight/ditchlights is tough enough let alone at that closing speed. The fact that Chris saw the misaligned switch and dumped the train (according to NTSB) is testimony to the fact that he was reasonable alert. Just not enough time to make a difference.

LC

LC,

When you say "dumped the train" do you mean put it in emergency? Do they know how far ahead of the switch the engineer was able to do it? I feel so bad for the crew and town.

I read on CNN that the previous crew forgot to realign the switch? Does anyone know if there is any truth to that?

Gabe

Gabe-

Yes, "dumping the train" is placing it in emergency. I don't know exactly where the engineer put it into emergency, only that NTSB reports are confirming (as does the wreckage pile) that the train was put into emergency prior to impact.

The NTSB apparently suspects that the crew of the local left the switch open.

LC

[Junctionfan]

There wasn't a automatic signal to tell if the signal was thrown was there? Maybe a dwarf or something?

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

There wasn't a automatic signal to tell if the signal was thrown was there? Maybe a dwarf or something?

It is unsignalled a.k.a. "dark" territory. No track circuits, no signals, nothing. Train and switch position information is passed verbally between the train and dispatcher over the radio. There are specific procedures/rules in place to minimize the chance of human error, but the possibility always exists.

There is quite a bit of light density "dark" mainline track in the southeast. Signalling is expensive to install and maintain and, up to now, anyway, the benefit has not been felt to be felt to be worth the expense.

[Valleyline]

After reading all of the above it seems to me that we're extremely fortunate that there haven't been more accidents like this. I'll bet the FRA will come up with both technological rules (approach signals for switches off the main line) and/or low speed limits in the area of switches located in dark territory. One thing sure, it will cost a lot of money to provide the needed protection. Until all the investigations are complete we shouldn't speculate about who's at fault.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Valleyline

After reading all of the above it seems to me that we're extremely fortunate that there haven't been more accidents like this. I'll bet the FRA will come up with both technological rules (approach signals for switches off the main line) and/or low speed limits in the area of switches located in dark territory. One thing sure, it will cost a lot of money to provide the needed protection. Until all the investigations are complete we shouldn't speculate about who's at fault.

I think you are right about the FRA and big $$ being needed. Every great, tragic wreck results in some new rules and regulations. If I remember right, the max speed limits by signal system type came about after a great, tragic wreck somewhere in the past.

I think the next "dead elephant" out there is the crew fatigue/no PTS issue. Some crew will fall asleep and plow into another train in the middle somewhere with cars piling up on a church or school full of people and we'll be at this again.

It sure would be nice to address some of this stuff now instead of waiting for the next tragic wreck.

[wabash1]

cleveunionterm

Use of common sense is not in you stable is it.. I know my territory and if you would understand not every railroad is the same or uses the same switches and or markers. no i dont guess you would. Now in the daytime it would be easier to see a cut of cars rolled out and fouling the main but at nightime you wont see anything. ( until its to late) the next thing is if you think you are going to slow down at every switch or every crossing you will be fired for delaying a train. ( oh yes this is in the trainmasters rules for firing someone) . so at all times you must run at track speed. kinda blows your theory out of the water now dont it. me i am going track speed. regardless. oh and as far as thinking im a hot runner i have and still do the 16 hr day get back out after 8. and do it 75 days straight before a day off .. why do you think you dont see me on here that much. duh. and i know that the first thing out of your mouth is he is fibbing the 12 hr of service law blah blah blah ...... it says i wont preform duty after 12 hrs it says nothing at all about being on duty. and its been as high as 18hrs on duty. with up to 10 hours off before getting called back out. and as far as the big four they are no longer in buisness now are they......

The thing is why are people making a big deal of this because cars crash everyday trucks a little less . but when planes started falling from the sky people ran around thinking the world was ending then things got better then for the most part amtrak was keeping a schedual of putting one in somebodies back yard on a regular basis. then that got better we have a good record but accidents do happen.

The tapes will show when the train was put in emergency then how far it traveled from there . at that point they can measure back from the resting point of the engine to see where the emegency applacation was done. as far as signals go there is a signal made for dark territory for switches and is not to exspensive and is used on the old southern railroad its called a non automatic block signal.

LC

I thought you worked for the ns?? dont give them ideas like that they alread put derails at the top of hills so no car can roll up hill and out on to the main line.

[Anonymous]

Mourners honor Chris Seeling
(The following story by Clif LeBlanc appeared on The State website on January 12.)

COLUMBIA, S.C. -- The engineer in Thursday’s fatal Graniteville train wreck was eulogized Tuesday as a good-hearted fellow who had railroading in his blood.

Christopher Glenn Seeling, 28, left a circle of remembrance that drew about 150 mourners to Columbia’s First Presbyterian Church, many from his railroad family.

As the gathered sang one of his favorite hymns, "Rock of Ages," Seeling’s polished poplar wood casket lay adorned in a spray of red- and peach-colored roses with white carnations.

A harpist filled the sanctuary of the 210-year-old church with the comforting tones of Seeling’s favorite instrument.

The life of Chris Seeling began in Fort Wayne, Ind., but he had become "a good old Southern boy," his brother Eddie Schmidt, 19, wrote in the funeral bulletin.

Seeling, a barrel-chested 6-footer, learned to love hunting and fishing. But his love of the rails was born into him, said Joe Teague, who grew so close to Seeling he considered him family.

"Whenever he heard the whistle, his stepdad would haul him over there, about a mile from the house," Teague, a West Columbia contractor who built Seeling a home here, said in an interview.

"His fascination with trains was on a bigger scale than most young boys," Teague said. "He wanted the real thing."

A family Amtrak vacation trip in 1989 was the final step in setting Seeling onto a career path.

He will be buried Friday in Indiana, where his passion was sparked.

During Tuesday’s service, the Rev. Neal Mathias recalled Seeling’s final train ride.

"Last Thursday morning, lots of things went wrong," Mathias said. "Lots of things came undone."

Yet the minister asked the mourners to follow Seeling’s lead by turning to God for guidance and solace.

Brian McLaughlin was the first engineer to train Seeling as he prepared to become a Norfolk Southern engineer.

McLaughlin said Seeling was filling in for a vacationing engineer the night of the Jan. 6 accident. "I told him to be safe," McLaughlin said.

It would become the last of their scores of conversations, personal and professional.

"We’re just going to miss him in Columbia — terribly."

[Anonymous]

CSX just had another head on through an open switch in dark territory with a dead train.

LC

[Anonymous]

You're kidding, right??? All things were quiet at my terminal when I was off for a few days only to have me return and find my terminal in chaos. A yard crew was spotting some bad order double stack cars and decided to shove them through the car shop. The car shop's clearance is designed for double stacks; however, someone in Evansville or Nashville improperly loaded a container and it was about three inches higher than it should have been. There was a switchman watching the shove, but by the time he noticed, it was too late. The south side of the car shop is gone, large chunks of brick lay everywhere. Then, I was called for second shift yesterday and I heard that a car loaded with soymeal had derailed on the Westville main. So, another accident within two days. I was not suprised to see a Lexus parked in the parking lot when I showed up for work; obviously there was a superintendent here on damage control. Luckily no one has been hurt, I really don't care what we tear up as long as no one gets hurt. Knock on wood................

[Anonymous]

From BLET Site

Two CSX engines collide in Banks
(The following story by Russell Sellers appeared on The Messenger website on January 12.)

TROY, Ala. -- A CSX freight train collided with a stationary CSX train Tuesday morning around 5 a.m. in the Banks community. The wreck occurred in front of the Banks Primary School.

Neither train had any hazardous materials on board and no injuries were reported.

Neither train derailed in the accident. The moving train sustained little, if any damage. The stationary train, which was unmanned, was heavily damaged.

The main question from the scene centered on a switch that may not have been set correctly. This caused the trains to end up on the same track.

"We can't speculate about what may or may not have happened," CSX spokesman Misty Skipper said. "After our investigators determine what happened we'll certainly take all steps necessary to prevent a similar accident in the future. But we really can't give a timetable for the investigation. It will be very thorough."

In a safety advisory issued Tuesday, the Federal Railroad Administration expressed concern about other accidents caused when railroad employees didn't return hand-operated track switches to their normal position.

"An improperly lined switch invites disaster and can be easily avoided," said Robert Jamison, the FRA's acting chief.

There were 23 train accidents caused by improperly aligned switches during the first nine months of 2004, of a total of 2,577 incidents, according to FRA data.

The FRA notes that most trains operate on tracks that have electronic signals that indicate when a switch is in a position to divert a train off the main track. However, the FRA also said that 40 percent of railroad tracks in the United States are in territories that do not have signals.

In accordance with the safety advisory, inspectors from the FRA will be looking into accidents that were possibly caused by manual switches being out of place.

The safety advisory also said some railroads have already changed their rules to require railroad crews to notify the dispatcher of the switch's position.

This accident comes one month after another train accident in Pike County.

At about 3:15 a.m. on Dec. 11, nine cars of an 89-car train derailed on a couple hundred-yard stretch of track that parallels Alabama Highways 29 and 10, less than a mile outside the Highway 231 overpass. The cars were carrying limestone, pulp paper and wood.

"There has still not been a determination in the cause of that derailment," Skipper said.

Last week, CSX had another derailment in Lowndes County.

No injuries were reported in that incident. However, hazardous materials were aboard that train, although not in the cars that derailed.

[oskar]

Mark did you read today's News Times there are talking about the 1997 loaded coal train derailment and they said a disaster in Columbia County is minamal.

that's good I live less than a mile and my school is nearby ( well for another 2 years they are blowing it up and putting a new one nearby)




kevin

[CleveUnionTerm]

Originally posted by wabash1

cleveunionterm

Use of common sense is not in you stable is it.. I know my territory and if you would understand not every railroad is the same or uses the same switches and or markers. no i dont guess you would. Now in the daytime it would be easier to see a cut of cars rolled out and fouling the main but at nightime you wont see anything. ( until its to late) the next thing is if you think you are going to slow down at every switch or every crossing you will be fired for delaying a train. ( oh yes this is in the trainmasters rules for firing someone) . so at all times you must run at track speed. kinda blows your theory out of the water now dont it. me i am going track speed. regardless. oh and as far as thinking im a hot runner i have and still do the 16 hr day get back out after 8. and do it 75 days straight before a day off .. why do you think you dont see me on here that much. duh. and i know that the first thing out of your mouth is he is fibbing the 12 hr of service law blah blah blah ...... it says i wont preform duty after 12 hrs it says nothing at all about being on duty. and its been as high as 18hrs on duty. with up to 10 hours off before getting called back out. and as far as the big four they are no longer in buisness now are they......

The thing is why are people making a big deal of this because cars crash everyday trucks a little less . but when planes started falling from the sky people ran around thinking the world was ending then things got better then for the most part amtrak was keeping a schedual of putting one in somebodies back yard on a regular basis. then that got better we have a good record but accidents do happen.

The tapes will show when the train was put in emergency then how far it traveled from there . at that point they can measure back from the resting point of the engine to see where the emegency applacation was done. as far as signals go there is a signal made for dark territory for switches and is not to exspensive and is used on the old southern railroad its called a non automatic block signal.

LC

I thought you worked for the ns?? dont give them ideas like that they alread put derails at the top of hills so no car can roll up hill and out on to the main line.

Wabash: If you can't SEE at NIGHT you shouldn't be working on the railroad!
Quote: "at night time you wont see anything until its to late" Can you see the signals?
Sorry, it doesn't work that way...at night time you need your BEST vision and
must be alert at all times! "SAFETY IS JOB ONE"
You should consider switching to a NON-operating position if you are not
already in one. Recomendation: RFE or TRAINMASTER ride with you
on a regular basis. You must be a NEW hire?
P.S. You wrote "schedual" what does that word mean? Do you mean schedule?
"Gotta Love It"
REMEMBER .."SAFETY FIRST"
Not walking around thinking you know everything!!!
Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis Ry. The "BIG FOUR"

CCC&StLRy

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