I would think so.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-hazel-technologies-produce-shelf-life-20191127-tpjscbfycfd5xgmy63ibbw67ma-story.html
There is a huge volume of perishable food that moves from farm to table in North America. The vast majority moves significant distances by truck. Rail would be less costly but add to the transit time. Since nobody wants to throw the spoiled food out, this gives trucks an advantage. Faster transit is worth money.
So if this technology is able to lengthen the time perishable food stays fresh it should make rail more competitive in this large, lucrative market.
greyhoundsRail would be less costly but add to the transit time.
The "salad shooter" was a premium service between the west coast and a major perishable warehouse in NY state. It was essentially a unit train on an expedited schedule - I don't recall the specifics.
Notice, however, that I said "was."
On CSX, the cars are now handled by manifest freights. Apparently, at least one railroad doesn't want the business.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
greyhoundsI would think so. https://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-biz-hazel-technologies-produce-shelf-life-20191127-tpjscbfycfd5xgmy63ibbw67ma-story.html There is a huge volume of perishable food that moves from farm to table in North America. The vast majority moves significant distances by truck. Rail would be less costly but add to the transit time. Since nobody wants to throw the spoiled food out, this gives trucks an advantage. Faster transit is worth money. So if this technology is able to lengthen the time perishable food stays fresh it should make rail more competitive in this large, lucrative market.
If they could fix the major terminal delays and congestion, for example, Chicago with programs like CREATE, they could probably save a day or two as well. Coast to Coast. I think the money is better spent on infrastructure and keeping the rail network fluid through terminals.
Israel has been a real leader in anti-spoilage, and the benefits go way beyond allowing longer transit times. Supply never perfectly matches demans in food consumption, and extra days without spoilage mean genrally less spoilage and more food available.
CSX does deliver cars regularly the The Bronx Hunts Point Market, so they must want some business.
Two questions:
1. One has to wonder what the process of "preserving forever" does to the healthiness of the product?
2. Dave: Do you think CSX is still delivering carloads of foodstuffs into metro NYC?
tree68 greyhounds Rail would be less costly but add to the transit time. The "salad shooter" was a premium service between the west coast and a major perishable warehouse in NY state. It was essentially a unit train on an expedited schedule - I don't recall the specifics. Notice, however, that I said "was." On CSX, the cars are now handled by manifest freights. Apparently, at least one railroad doesn't want the business.
greyhounds Rail would be less costly but add to the transit time.
One railroad bought the business. UP bought RailEx. After the purchase, Salad Shooters at first started filling out with box cars carrying non-pershable food stuffs. Then they started moving the reefer traffic on intermodal trains instead of a dedicated Z train.
Now with PSR, I can't say that I've noticed the reefers on the intermodals much lately. I'm guessing it's now moving in the manifest trains. I always look through the manifest train consists, just to see where stuff is going. I can't say that I've seen traffic for Selkirk across Iowa, but it might be moving across Missouri. I know one train that used to interchange in the Chicago area that carried perishables was rerouted towards the St. Louis area for interchange a few years ago.
Jeff
greyhoundsSo if this technology is able to lengthen the time perishable food stays fresh it should make rail more competitive
Who, besides the railroads themselves, would be motivated to spend money extending the shelf life of produce, if the extended shelf time is absorbed by the produce sitting in rail cars for the duration?
Best option is the status quo.. let it move by truck. Door to door in 1 to 6 days anywhere in North America. Why monkey with what works just fine?
I think integrity of the food supply is the larger issue right now. Romaine lettuce, e coli. Blackberries, hepititis a. Tower Garden aeroponics, home and farm. Many types of crops. No soil, herbicides, pesticides. 10% of the water. Little or no shipping. Better controls. You know what your food is. I'm on a site with 20,000 members. Continues to grow mostly under the radar.
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Convicted One greyhounds So if this technology is able to lengthen the time perishable food stays fresh it should make rail more competitive Who, besides the railroads themselves, would be motivated to spend money extending the shelf life of produce, if the extended shelf time is absorbed by the produce sitting in rail cars for the duration?
greyhounds So if this technology is able to lengthen the time perishable food stays fresh it should make rail more competitive
Everything is a trade off. If the post harvest viability of perishable food can be significantly extended how will that benefit be used. To allow rail movement at a lower dollar cost? To allow more shelf time in a grocery store? Probably a mix of both.
Rail can't be slow with these movements. But the standard I've most heard is truck time plus one day. The railroads can do that in many cases. If the length of required food sale quality is extended it should make rail movement more competitive.
It's no panacea, but it is an increase in rail competitiveness.
But who pays for the additional cost?
Duplicated
Convicted One Who, besides the railroads themselves, would be motivated to spend money extending the shelf life of produce, if the extended shelf time is absorbed by the produce sitting in rail cars for the duration?
My thoughts exactly. Plus, no matter what anyone says, three-days-old "fresh" food is still fresher than four-days-old "fresh" food.
EuclidRetailers have already demonstrated that they are perfectly willing to stock the shelves with fruit that is so far from being ripe that it is inedible. I have found it unlikely for such fruit to fully ripen while being stored after purchase.
Depends on the retailer here in Texas. Though Texas like California grows most of it's own fruit and produce in the moderate climate areas so we get really fresh and at times really large. The Grapefruit down here is larger than a Softball in most cases and very good. Oranges and Peaches are pretty decent as well. I travel to the Midwest to visit family and the fruit there looks pretty bad in most cases except what is grown locally (Apples, Cherries, Cranberries). Interestingly Texas supermarkets have twice the selection almost of what is available in the Milwaukee area. Always remark that to the locals. In Texas I can get decent ingredients for African cooking, Indian cooking, Jamacian cooking etc. You really have to look in the Midwest for those same ingredients.
jeffhergertOne railroad bought the business. UP bought RailEx. After the purchase, Salad Shooters at first started filling out with box cars carrying non-pershable food stuffs. Then they started moving the reefer traffic on intermodal trains instead of a dedicated Z train. Now with PSR, I can't say that I've noticed the reefers on the intermodals much lately. I'm guessing it's now moving in the manifest trains. I always look through the manifest train consists, just to see where stuff is going. I can't say that I've seen traffic for Selkirk across Iowa, but it might be moving across Missouri. I know one train that used to interchange in the Chicago area that carried perishables was rerouted towards the St. Louis area for interchange a few years ago. Jeff
If your talking the large White Refer cars with ARMN reporting marks on UP, yes I have seen them move past Union Station in Kansas City not in dedicated trains but in manifests. Intermodal are usually kept purely intermodal past KC Union Station at least for both UP and BNSF. Have noticed something interesting though, the 100% tri-level auto-rack train. Thats a new twist. Must be an Auto Assembly plant in or around KC.
Greyhounds: I really wasn't trying to rain on your parade with my skepticism. I sincerely wonder where value accrues in this model sufficient that someone is willing to pay extra?
I doubt the growers have much incentive, spoilage for them equates to additional sales much the same way planned failure is a part of manufactured goods
I don't think the consumer will pay extra unless they have some guarantee that the extended freshness period belongs to them, and has not already elapsed in transit. Given a choice between a bunch of broccoli that I know will last for a week at the standard price, versus one that I pay 20% more for, but have hopes that it should last two weeks....I doubt the extra week is going to be a huge incentive to pay extra.
That leaves the Wholesaler, the Grocer, and Transportation.
I can see some incentive for the grocer, but how would they best bury the cost? They run the risk of competing with themselves, steering sales to the cheaper "standard life" alternative
Wholesaling is all about margins, adding any extra cost could prove to be a disincentive.
The current model works for truckers, I doubt they would want to change much.
That leaves the Railroads....a clear beneficiary of this technology. I think the railroads need to buy this guy out now, and run with the ball
All of that being said, the "box of banannas that will last forever" example in the original article is quite an inducement, if the technology is ever perfected that far, I will gladly eat my humble (bananna) pie and line up at the grocers to buy my box.
I have to wonder though, most bananna boxes that I am familiar with have large openings in the bottom and top of the carton, to permit air circulation I've always supposed. While the illustration in the story shows a picture of a small packet of their product inside the container.
I have to wonder if there is not a conflict of sorts here? Sealing in the preservative, while not fostering rot from moisture.
The actual motivation behind this idea is to reduce society’s collective food waste in the public interest of fighting climate change. So I would expect this new spoilage prevention treatment to be mandated and publically funded perhaps with a food waste tax on grocery items.
“The average American family throws away 25% of groceries purchased,…
…Meanwhile, uneaten food is the No. 1 occupant in landfills and squanders the water and energy used to grow and transport it.
Routing unused food to charities or upcycling can help keep it out of the garbage, but solutions to prevent waste at the source, such as through shelf life extension, "have some of the greatest economic value per ton and net environmental benefit,” said Alexandra Coari, director of capital and innovation at ReFED.
Spoilage prevention packaging has the potential to divert 72,000 tons of waste and 330,000 tons of greenhouse gas emissions, plus save 44 billion gallons of water a year, she said.
Technology that extends shelf life has been around for a long time, but there has recently been a “huge uptick” in innovations that expand the options, helping to drive the $185 million in venture capital invested in combating food waste last year, Coari said.”
I think I’d rather have the old unimproved bananas and tomatoes.
Euclid The actual motivation behind this idea is to reduce society’s collective food waste in the public interest of fighting climate change. So I would expect this new spoilage prevention treatment to be mandated and publically funded perhaps with a food waste tax on grocery items.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
EuclidThe actual motivation behind this idea is to reduce society’s collective food waste in the public interest of fighting climate change.
I believe that is mostly manufactured spin in attempt to appeal to altruistic ambition.....Like when the USA invades a soverign nation under the auspices of delivering democracy, as a cover to install capitalism.
Money is going to be the driver.
Murphy Siding Euclid The actual motivation behind this idea is to reduce society’s collective food waste in the public interest of fighting climate change. So I would expect this new spoilage prevention treatment to be mandated and publically funded perhaps with a food waste tax on grocery items. No, the motivation is saving money. That's the motivation behind every possible innovation in a capitalistic system.
No, the motivation is saving money. That's the motivation behind every possible innovation in a capitalistic system.
Read the article. How does a capatalistic system save money by preventing 330,000 tons of greenhouse gas emissions?
EuclidHow does a capatalistic system save money by preventing 330,000 tons of greenhouse gas emissions?
Disguise it as a perk to "Prime" membership?
Euclid Murphy Siding Euclid The actual motivation behind this idea is to reduce society’s collective food waste in the public interest of fighting climate change. So I would expect this new spoilage prevention treatment to be mandated and publically funded perhaps with a food waste tax on grocery items. No, the motivation is saving money. That's the motivation behind every possible innovation in a capitalistic system. Read the article. How does a capatalistic system save money by preventing 330,000 tons of greenhouse gas emissions?
Actually, I suppose a capitalistic system could save the cost of putting up a new sky after this one falls.
CMStPnPIn Texas I can get decent ingredients for African cooking, Indian cooking, Jamacian cooking etc. You really have to look in the Midwest for those same ingredients.
Cheese, sausages, custard, and beer: the breakfast of champions!
zardozthe breakfast of champions!
The ambition to extend the shelf life of bananas indefinitely appears to be a pie in the sky endeavor to me. Now if in contrast they could engineer a higher bananadine content, I think they would really have something that would have much wider apeel.
EuclidActually, I suppose a capitalistic system could save the cost of putting up a new sky after this one falls.
That was pretty good!
Reading between the lines, this 'innovation' is little more than another way to inhibit ethylene-driven ripening. Most if not all the world-saving rhetoric is exactly that: buzzword bingo.
I think the jury may still be out on the firewater-from-overripe-banana revenue stream.
zardoz CMStPnP In Texas I can get decent ingredients for African cooking, Indian cooking, Jamacian cooking etc. You really have to look in the Midwest for those same ingredients. Perhaps, but if you're looking for cheese, sausages, custard, or beer, Wisconsin is the place to go (gee, no wonder so many of us are of the rotund variety). Cheese, sausages, custard, and beer: the breakfast of champions!
CMStPnP In Texas I can get decent ingredients for African cooking, Indian cooking, Jamacian cooking etc. You really have to look in the Midwest for those same ingredients.
Perhaps, but if you're looking for cheese, sausages, custard, or beer, Wisconsin is the place to go (gee, no wonder so many of us are of the rotund variety).
Rarely did I have to "really look" for any of the ethnic ingredients listed by the 1st poster when I lived in NW Indiana. They were all pretty easy to come by. Even more so when I lived in the western suburbs of Chicago. Maybe the people of Wisconsin are less cultured when it comes to ethnic food?
An "expensive model collector"
CMStPnP Euclid Retailers have already demonstrated that they are perfectly willing to stock the shelves with fruit that is so far from being ripe that it is inedible. I have found it unlikely for such fruit to fully ripen while being stored after purchase. Depends on the retailer here in Texas. Though Texas like California grows most of it's own fruit and produce in the moderate climate areas so we get really fresh and at times really large. The Grapefruit down here is larger than a Softball in most cases and very good. Oranges and Peaches are pretty decent as well. I travel to the Midwest to visit family and the fruit there looks pretty bad in most cases except what is grown locally (Apples, Cherries, Cranberries). Interestingly Texas supermarkets have twice the selection almost of what is available in the Milwaukee area. Always remark that to the locals. In Texas I can get decent ingredients for African cooking, Indian cooking, Jamacian cooking etc. You really have to look in the Midwest for those same ingredients.
Euclid Retailers have already demonstrated that they are perfectly willing to stock the shelves with fruit that is so far from being ripe that it is inedible. I have found it unlikely for such fruit to fully ripen while being stored after purchase.
You can easily get the above and lots of other ethnic cooking ingredients (Mideastern, Vietnamese, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Thai, etc) in Chicago and suburbs.
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