Convicted OneWho, besides the railroads themselves, would be motivated to spend money extending the shelf life of produce, if the extended shelf time is absorbed by the produce sitting in rail cars for the duration?
Actually, it is used as a selling point on some new brands of kitchen refrigerators. Google the Kitchen Aid brand and look at their special air filter and circulation system for fruit and vegitable storage which targets a specific gas leading to fast spoilage.
CMStPnPActually, it is used as a selling point on some new brands of kitchen refrigerators. Google the Kitchen Aid brand and look at their special air filter and circulation system for fruit and vegitable storage which targets a specific gas leading to fast spoilage.
Does that mean you would support a "food wastage tax" on the sale of refrigerators not so equiped?
Convicted One CMStPnP Actually, it is used as a selling point on some new brands of kitchen refrigerators. Google the Kitchen Aid brand and look at their special air filter and circulation system for fruit and vegitable storage which targets a specific gas leading to fast spoilage. Does that mean you would support a "food wastage tax" on the sale of refrigerators not so equiped?
CMStPnP Actually, it is used as a selling point on some new brands of kitchen refrigerators. Google the Kitchen Aid brand and look at their special air filter and circulation system for fruit and vegitable storage which targets a specific gas leading to fast spoilage.
The refrigerator I have came with the house when I bought it 30 years ago, the color makes me think it is from the late 60's.
It has been running without issues for over 50 years.
When I purchased my condo in Florida it came with a refrigerator that appeard to be about 10 years old - within two years it's compressor failed - got another and it lasted about 8 or 9 years and it's compressor gave up the ghost. The current one is approaching 8 years on duty. When .......?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDThe refrigerator I have came with the house when I bought it 30 years ago, the color makes me think it is from the late 60's. It has been running without issues for over 50 years. When I purchased my condo in Florida it came with a refrigerator that appeard to be about 10 years old - within two years it's compressor failed - got another and it lasted about 8 or 9 years and it's compressor gave up the ghost. The current one is approaching 8 years on duty. When .......?
I've had similar experiences.....I've got a Frigidaire that's been in the family since '68 still runs like a champ...it's our basement back up unit. (got an old Servel gas unit too, in mothballs)
In the mean time I've been through a Whirlpool and an Amana in the kitchen that lasted about 12 years each. It's shocking how flimsey they build the new ones.
Amana is now owned by Whirlpool. The original Amana Refrigeration plant is still open in Middle Amana, IA. My first cab ride was with the Milwaukee Road crew that switched the plant.
A year or so ago, I had just laid down to get some sleep in preparation for an early (3AM-ish on duty time) call. I was just drifting off, when my wife started screaming! I bolted out of bed, the way she was screaming I thought our cat had died. I get to the kitchen to see her holding the refrigerator door (Whirlpool about 5 or 6 years old) in her hand, no longer attached to the refrigerator. The bottom hinge's pivot had broken, allowing the door to come off. The bottom hinge shaft was a fitting that was held up from the bottom with screws into the hinge plate. The screws had broken allowing the piece to fall out.
I wasn't sure what to do. It's now about 11pm, I didn't have anything close to replacing the screws. In a fit of brilliance, or just a fit, I measured the distance from the bottom of the hinge plate to the floor. I knew I had a small block of 2x4 and it did the trick. It fit under the plate just right and enough to hold the hinge pivot piece in place. At least until I could get it fixed.
I ordered replacement parts. They had changed the bottom hinge assembly. No longer was the piece held together by screws from the bottom. The piece now was placed on top of the plate and held there by gravity. Something they should've used in the original design.
Jeff
jeffhergertI ordered replacement parts. They had changed the bottom hinge assembly. No longer was the piece held together by screws from the bottom. The piece now was placed on top of the plate and held there by gravity. Something they should've used in the original design. Jeff
The failed hinge was most likely designed by a bean counting junior engineering hot shot fresh out of college that replaced an experienced engineer because his design seemed to save two cents over the gravity hinge.
Convicted One BaltACD The refrigerator I have came with the house when I bought it 30 years ago, the color makes me think it is from the late 60's. It has been running without issues for over 50 years. When I purchased my condo in Florida it came with a refrigerator that appeard to be about 10 years old - within two years it's compressor failed - got another and it lasted about 8 or 9 years and it's compressor gave up the ghost. The current one is approaching 8 years on duty. When .......? I've had similar experiences.....I've got a Frigidaire that's been in the family since '68 still runs like a champ...it's our basement back up unit. (got an old Servel gas unit too, in mothballs) In the mean time I've been through a Whirlpool and an Amana in the kitchen that lasted about 12 years each. It's shocking how flimsey they build the new ones.
BaltACD The refrigerator I have came with the house when I bought it 30 years ago, the color makes me think it is from the late 60's. It has been running without issues for over 50 years. When I purchased my condo in Florida it came with a refrigerator that appeard to be about 10 years old - within two years it's compressor failed - got another and it lasted about 8 or 9 years and it's compressor gave up the ghost. The current one is approaching 8 years on duty. When .......?
My grandparents bought a GE refrigerator in 1939. It was still going strong when my grandmother passed away in 1973, and my cousin who bought the house used it for several years after that. My grandmother's 1946 International Harvester freezer (yes, that IH) was also going strong in 1973, and for several years afterward. The freezer weighed about the same as a new Kia does today.
jeffhergert Amana is now owned by Whirlpool. The original Amana Refrigeration plant is still open in Middle Amana, IA. My first cab ride was with the Milwaukee Road crew that switched the plant. A year or so ago, I had just laid down to get some sleep in preparation for an early (3AM-ish on duty time) call. I was just drifting off, when my wife started screaming! I bolted out of bed, the way she was screaming I thought our cat had died. I get to the kitchen to see her holding the refrigerator door (Whirlpool about 5 or 6 years old) in her hand, no longer attached to the refrigerator. The bottom hinge's pivot had broken, allowing the door to come off. The bottom hinge shaft was a fitting that was held up from the bottom with screws into the hinge plate. The screws had broken allowing the piece to fall out. I wasn't sure what to do. It's now about 11pm, I didn't have anything close to replacing the screws. In a fit of brilliance, or just a fit, I measured the distance from the bottom of the hinge plate to the floor. I knew I had a small block of 2x4 and it did the trick. It fit under the plate just right and enough to hold the hinge pivot piece in place. At least until I could get it fixed. I ordered replacement parts. They had changed the bottom hinge assembly. No longer was the piece held together by screws from the bottom. The piece now was placed on top of the plate and held there by gravity. Something they should've used in the original design. Jeff
You don't keep a roll of duct tape around for such emergencies? Red Green would be disappointed in you.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
n012944Maybe the people of Wisconsin are less cultured when it comes to ethnic food?
Murphy Siding jeffhergert Amana is now owned by Whirlpool. The original Amana Refrigeration plant is still open in Middle Amana, IA. My first cab ride was with the Milwaukee Road crew that switched the plant. A year or so ago, I had just laid down to get some sleep in preparation for an early (3AM-ish on duty time) call. I was just drifting off, when my wife started screaming! I bolted out of bed, the way she was screaming I thought our cat had died. I get to the kitchen to see her holding the refrigerator door (Whirlpool about 5 or 6 years old) in her hand, no longer attached to the refrigerator. The bottom hinge's pivot had broken, allowing the door to come off. The bottom hinge shaft was a fitting that was held up from the bottom with screws into the hinge plate. The screws had broken allowing the piece to fall out. I wasn't sure what to do. It's now about 11pm, I didn't have anything close to replacing the screws. In a fit of brilliance, or just a fit, I measured the distance from the bottom of the hinge plate to the floor. I knew I had a small block of 2x4 and it did the trick. It fit under the plate just right and enough to hold the hinge pivot piece in place. At least until I could get it fixed. I ordered replacement parts. They had changed the bottom hinge assembly. No longer was the piece held together by screws from the bottom. The piece now was placed on top of the plate and held there by gravity. Something they should've used in the original design. Jeff You don't keep a roll of duct tape around for such emergencies? Red Green would be disappointed in you.
Jeff is not Canadian or a member of the Possum Lodge; so he must be handsome, not handy.
Most consumers today don't want extended shelf life food they want food as fresh as possible.. If anything the RR's need to speed up service instead of waiting on the opportunity for a technology that retards the natural process of food decomposing..
Food waste is a real issue. From many years in food retail I can't count the thousands of pounds of food wasted... That cost obviously is passed onto the consumer. In America having the abundance of access to variety we take for granted our choices and many don't care about the waste left behind..
I remember as a child a Russian family we became friends with back in California was about 1989. They had fled the USSR right before the Berlin Wall fell.. They about had a heart attack at how much food was accessible to them once they arrived here in the States!
Now if RR's want to become a force again in perishables. Look back in time and bring back a certain TOFC service..
SD60MAC9500Most consumers today don't want extended shelf life food they want food as fresh as possible.. If anything the RR's need to speed up service instead of waiting on the opportunity for a technology that retards the natural process of food decomposing..
Actually, I thought there might be promise for UP to incorporate into it's reefer units a central system similar in scope to the units CMStPnP mentioned in the Kitchen-Aide refrigerators, thus avoiding the need to place packets inside each individual container.
Unfortunately, I see the mindset of the railroads themselves to be a much bigger obstacle. Perhaps I've been brainwashed, but I see the railroad's preferred strategy being to avoid traffic that requires too much handling or too much creative thought to acquire.....haven't they been shedding outside sales staff of the sort that would be needed to go out and retake the fruit and produce business?
What would the organic food market think of this? They always want food that does not need preservatives. So what would they think of the perpetual banana? Will they welcome this new technology because it opens more markets for them? Will their food still be able to be organic certified when treated with these new ripening retarders? What about the movement to save the Planet by buying local? What are they going to think of a hyper preservative food supply that comes from all over the world?
Convicted One Actually, I thought there might be promise for UP to incorporate into it's reefer units a central system similar in scope to the units CMStPnP mentioned in the Kitchen-Aide refrigerators, thus avoiding the need to place packets inside each individual container. Unfortunately, I see the mindset of the railroads themselves to be a much bigger obstacle. Perhaps I've been brainwashed, but I see the railroad's preferred strategy being to avoid traffic that requires too much handling or too much creative thought to acquire.....haven't they been shedding outside sales staff of the sort that would be needed to go out and retake the fruit and produce business?
That central system "scrubber" on reefer cars seems like a good idea. It should be worth researching as to customer response, effectiveness, cost, benefit, etc. On the other hand, I see one advantage of the packets being the fact that they'll stay with the food as it moves through the supply chain.
As to the mindset of the railroads, they're just not marketing oriented organizations. Some do better than others. But it's going to take a very strong leader who isn't too risk adverse to change that corporate culture.
SD60MAC9500 Most consumers today don't want extended shelf life food they want food as fresh as possible.. If anything the RR's need to speed up service instead of waiting on the opportunity for a technology that retards the natural process of food decomposing.. Food waste is a real issue. From many years in food retail I can't count the thousands of pounds of food wasted... That cost obviously is passed onto the consumer. In America having the abundance of access to variety we take for granted our choices and many don't care about the waste left behind..
Yes and No.
I'd opine that consumers equate freshness with quality and home storage time. If someone is able to provide comparable quality and increased home storage time for produce that was harvested a couple days earlier I don't see a significant disadvantage. I've never seen a "Harvested On" date marked on a perishable product.
Food waste is a major cost to North American consumers. It's a cost without benefits and it doesn't stop at the grocery store. I'll try to look up some USDA figures on the waste. Food that makes it in to the home is tossed due to spoilage. Throwing out uneaten, unprepared, purchased food is just a family throwing out hard earned money.
Fixing that, and saving costs by being able to transport by rail, would be a major benefit gain.
greyhoundsFixing that, and saving costs by being able to transport by rail, would be a major benefit gain
FWIW, I really don't mind having to go to the grocery weekly, That's about the capacity of my refrigerator, not sure if that's councidence or by design. I just mention that in observance that there might be systemic constraints that might limit actual benefit to super longevity produce.
I'm only going to buy one head of lettuce per week, regardless if I have confidence that a second head will last two weeks, or not.
One thing I find myself becoming increasingly annoyed by are the "super tough" vegetable hybrids that have been created to be more durable for shipping purposes. I've been getting sweet peppers so rubbery that you'd think they were a dog's chew toy, celery as tough as tree branches, and tomato varieties where flavor has obviously taken a back seat to texture and blemish resistance.
So, if I'm following the discussion correctly, there is technology in the works that would extend the life of perishable foods. We're talking about whether this advance would help railroads get back into the shipment of lots of perishable foods-right? To me, the article is a little unclear how much time this technology could add to the lifespan of perishables. Is it an extra week, or month, or year? It would seem like the railroads' only way to get in this game would be to haul the food from point A to point B a lot cheaper than trucks. I see some challenges in doing that. The main one being that the food still has to ride a truck to the train and then ride a truck from the train to the grocery store. What would railroads have to do in order make producer>truck>train>truck>end retailer competitive with producer>truck>end retailer?
+1
"Fresh" vegetables and fruit. Vegetables sitting around but not rotting have a lot less nutritional value. Hence, there has been a large growth in the consumer demand for organically and locally grown produce, including weekly farmers markets in many communities. For the reasons Tom mentions and these, this seems like an innovation about 30 years late.
Convicted One One thing I find myself becoming increasingly annoyed by are the "super tough" vegetable hybrids that have been created to be more durable for shipping purposes. I've been getting sweet peppers so rubbery that you'd think they were a dog's chew toy, celery as tough as tree branches, and tomato varieties where flavor has obviously taken a back seat to texture and blemish resistance.
I rarely discard fruit because it passes its ripe prime and begins to spoil. But I do discard at least 50% of the fruit I buy after the first taste because it is nowhere near ready to eat. I am talking about things like mandarine oranges that are hard as a rock, can't be peeled, have no citus flavor, and have major bitter-sour flavor. I don't regard punishment as being part of the bargain.
Euclid Convicted One One thing I find myself becoming increasingly annoyed by are the "super tough" vegetable hybrids that have been created to be more durable for shipping purposes. I've been getting sweet peppers so rubbery that you'd think they were a dog's chew toy, celery as tough as tree branches, and tomato varieties where flavor has obviously taken a back seat to texture and blemish resistance. Yes, this is what I too see as the problem, that is food that has its shelf life extended not only by engineering it to last longer after ripening, but also by selling it to the consumer before it is ripe. All of this is to give the producers more time from field to market. I rarely discard fruit because it passes its ripe prime and begins to spoil. But I do discard at least 50% of the fruit I buy after the first taste because it is nowhere near ready to eat. I am talking about things like mandarine oranges that are hard as a rock, can't be peeled, have no citus flavor, and have major bitter-sour flavor. I don't regard punishment as being part of the bargain.
Yes, this is what I too see as the problem, that is food that has its shelf life extended not only by engineering it to last longer after ripening, but also by selling it to the consumer before it is ripe. All of this is to give the producers more time from field to market.
Very true. I've given up on strawberries unless local. The ones shipped from CA are sour.
From what I understand, over-road trucks rare take food from farm to store directy. More often farmers' truckls to wholesaler, over-road to distribution center, and local truck to store. Ans CSX does deliver to The Bronx's Hunts Point Markeet directly.
The anti-spoilage developmejts in Israel are primrily to aid African trade partners tp become more self-sufficient.
charlie hebdo Euclid Convicted One One thing I find myself becoming increasingly annoyed by are the "super tough" vegetable hybrids that have been created to be more durable for shipping purposes. I've been getting sweet peppers so rubbery that you'd think they were a dog's chew toy, celery as tough as tree branches, and tomato varieties where flavor has obviously taken a back seat to texture and blemish resistance. Yes, this is what I too see as the problem, that is food that has its shelf life extended not only by engineering it to last longer after ripening, but also by selling it to the consumer before it is ripe. All of this is to give the producers more time from field to market. I rarely discard fruit because it passes its ripe prime and begins to spoil. But I do discard at least 50% of the fruit I buy after the first taste because it is nowhere near ready to eat. I am talking about things like mandarine oranges that are hard as a rock, can't be peeled, have no citus flavor, and have major bitter-sour flavor. I don't regard punishment as being part of the bargain. Very true. I've given up on strawberries unless local. The ones shipped from CA are sour.
I find that they taste like pesticides.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
While longer shelf life may make rail shipping more available, buyers might instead just buy bigger lots and take longer to sell, thereby still needing fast truck service.
daveklepper From what I understand, over-road trucks rare take food from farm to store directy. More often farmers' truckls to wholesaler, over-road to distribution center, and local truck to store. Ans CSX does deliver to The Bronx's Hunts Point Markeet directly.
For sure.
An over the road truck can load directly from the field. But! They've generally got to wash and cool the produce before shipment. It's obviously going to come out of the field at the ambient tempurature. That's not good for shipment. The produce starts to decay at harvest. Lower temps slow this decay. (i.e. prolong the useful edibility.) That's why we keep food in a refrigerator.
Transport refrigeration systems aren't designed to reduce the food's temperature. They're only designed to maintain the food's temperature. If you put ambient temperature lettuce in a transport vehicle and haul it from Salinas to Chicago, you're going to end up with bad lettuce. (It has been done intentionally to sell the produce to the transportation company via a loss and damage claim when the real market isn't good.) So they've generally got to take the produce to a specialized cooling facility to remove the heat before shipment. Also, it is necessary to "Precool" the transport vehicle so they don't load cooled produce in to a hot environment.
Ethelene removal only enhances the shelf life effects of refrigeration. I've seen zero evidence that it reduces the food's nutrition. Enhanced shelf life should give some advantage to rail movement of this high volume commodity.
greyhoundsEthylene removal only enhances the shelf life effects of refrigeration. I've seen zero evidence that it reduces the food's nutrition.
And you won't. Ethylene in plants is primarily a signaling mechanism that initiates 'ripening' changes. The only effect of reducing ethylene (or reversibly inhibiting the copper-linked receptor sensitivity, etc.) is to keep the cascade of intracellular ripening effects from starting.
Technically, this keeps the food's "nutrition" and other characteristics where it 'was' in the unripe state at which it has been nearly arrested. To get proper nutrition, taste, etc. you will have to perform 'controlled exposure to ethylene' or some other cocktail of ripening strategies at some point before the food is actually expected to be consumed, which usually gets left out of these discussions about transport lifetime, and any other 'aging' characteristics of the food (for example oxidation) proceeds exactly as for any other form of refrigerated transport, so there is no guarantee apart from the various ethylene-modulated pathways that you get longer shelf life, which also often gets left out of these discussions.
Note that a different strategy from simple 'ethylene removal' in CA is required for refrigerator-car loads; the entire load of a climacteric 'fruit' will be generating this gas even in sensible cold transport, and therefore the CA would have to be circulated fairly briskly through any point(s) of 'scrubbing' for the trick to work at the necessary scale (as opposed to having many, many sachets of chemical disseminated throughout sealed "CA" boxes -- prechilled as noted -- that compose a given carload).
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