Trains.com

News Wire: Union Pacific CEO Lance Fritz says US-Chine trade dispute has gone too far

4123 views
98 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, November 22, 2019 1:09 PM

Shadow the Cats owner

China literally wants to rule the freaking world both economically and thru its use of force. They have a 2100 plan that no one talks about.  By 2100 they want the entire world under their control and they mean the entire world.  By 2050 they want everything east to Europe under their thumb including Russia.  By 2075 they want all of Europe and by 2100 they want control of the American Continents.  They want everything and country under their rule. 

 

Wow! Better check the country of origin labels on your tinfoil hats. Mischief

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    October 2014
  • 1,136 posts
Posted by Gramp on Friday, November 22, 2019 2:29 PM

I suggest you take the time to read the first chapter (free) of Gingrich's book regarding the challenge China presents to the US.  See if it makes you think about looking at the lenses with which you see the world. 
https://www.gingrich360.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/TrumpVsChina_Chapter1.pdf

 

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, November 22, 2019 3:58 PM

You know we have a real enemy,  Russia,  which some people choose to ignore. 

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 2,631 posts
Posted by Backshop on Friday, November 22, 2019 4:28 PM

Russia is hostile, but is at most, a regional power.  It has neither the population, economy or military might that China does.  Even weakened Western Europe could take care of Russia.  They bluster and do provacative things, but they really don't have the hard power to back it up.

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Kenosha, WI
  • 6,567 posts
Posted by zardoz on Friday, November 22, 2019 5:11 PM

SD70Dude
It is mainly about our lack of scheduling (most train crews still work on call, without regular assigned days off) and the Company's demand for cuts to the rest and time off we can take. 

That sounds like Safety First. (not!)

  • Member since
    February 2018
  • From: Flyover Country
  • 5,557 posts
Posted by York1 on Friday, November 22, 2019 5:19 PM

charlie hebdo

You know we have a real enemy,  Russia,  which some people choose to ignore. 

 
 
"Gov. Romney, I'm glad that you recognize that al-Qaida is a threat, because a few months ago when you were asked what's the biggest geopolitical threat facing America, you said Russia, not al-Qaida. You said Russia ... the 1980s, they're now calling to ask for their foreign policy back because, you know, the Cold War's been over for 20 years," Obama said.
 

York1 John       

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, November 22, 2019 6:18 PM

And Romney was prophetic. But now,  in the face of overwhelming evidence,  his party is in denial. 

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, November 22, 2019 6:20 PM

Backshop

Russia is hostile, but is at most, a regional power.  It has neither the population, economy or military might that China does.  Even weakened Western Europe could take care of Russia.  They bluster and do provacative things, but they really don't have the hard power to back it up.

 

Putin's goal is to reconstitute the Soviet Union.  And even now,  the Russian military is far more powerful than China's. 

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 2,631 posts
Posted by Backshop on Friday, November 22, 2019 7:42 PM

charlie hebdo

 

 

   And even now,  the Russian military is far more powerful than China's. 

 

Not really.  China is building their second domestically built aircraft carrier while Russia can't build anything bigger than a frigate or corvette.  Their only source of large gas turbines was the Ukraine, and that source is now gone.  Most of the Russian navy is Soviet-era ships.  The PLA army and airforce are being rapidly modernized. Russia makes nice prototypes of advanced fighters and tanks, but can't get them into series production.  Reconstituting the USSR is the worst thing that Russia could do.  It would bring Muslim minorities back inside their borders.  Look how much trouble Chechnya has been. Russia only has a population of 150 million, and it's aging.  When you are constantly bragging about your new super-weapons, it means you're trying to scare people but without substance.  The Russian economy can't support much growth and rearmament.  There's a reason the US has pivoted towards China.  Europe/Russia is no longer the center of the world's economy.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, November 22, 2019 7:53 PM

I agree though they have lots of missiles,  tanks and nukes.  But a Europe dominated by Russia is a powerful economy.  Meanwhile we are driving away almost all our allies.

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 2,631 posts
Posted by Backshop on Friday, November 22, 2019 7:56 PM

My point is that Russia can only bluff their way to dominance.  If other countries push back, the game is over.  Nukes are a false threat unless someone else attacks them first.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, November 22, 2019 8:44 PM

If Trump withdraws from NATO, you will quickly see a return to the Warsaw Pact and a new German-Russian non-aggression pact, ala 1939.

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, November 22, 2019 9:03 PM

Backshop
My point is that Russia can only bluff their way to dominance.  If other countries push back, the game is over.  Nukes are a false threat unless someone else attacks them first.

Russia has been actively persuing disinformation campaigns in all democratic countries to devise issues with which to split the country's unity of purpose.  In the US you see what we have.  In Great Britian we have 'Brexit'.  In all democratic countries you have the Russians pushing the deviseveness of the immigrant situations and vilifying any of Muslim persuation.  Russia is sucking out the sense of unity of the Western countries.

Putin's method to bring Russia to dominance, at least dominance over Western Nations, is the divide and conquer method knowing that he has neither the economic power of the force of arms to bring it about.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • 5,636 posts
Posted by charlie hebdo on Friday, November 22, 2019 9:07 PM

BaltACD

 

 
Backshop
My point is that Russia can only bluff their way to dominance.  If other countries push back, the game is over.  Nukes are a false threat unless someone else attacks them first.

 

Russia has been actively persuing disinformation campaigns in all democratic countries to devise issues with which to split the country's unity of purpose.  In the US you see what we have.  In Great Britian we have 'Brexit'.  In all democratic countries you have the Russians pushing the deviseveness of the immigrant situations and vilifying any of Muslim persuation.  Russia is sucking out the sense of unity of the Western countries.

Putin's method to bring Russia to dominance, at least dominance over Western Nations, is the divide and conquer method knowing that he has neither the economic power of the force of arms to bring it about.

 

+1

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Saturday, November 23, 2019 12:25 AM

BaltACD
Russia has been actively persuing disinformation campaigns in all democratic countries to devise issues with which to split the country's unity of purpose.  In the US you see what we have.  In Great Britian we have 'Brexit'.  In all democratic countries you have the Russians pushing the deviseveness of the immigrant situations and vilifying any of Muslim persuation.  Russia is sucking out the sense of unity of the Western countries.

They haven't been doing anything that we haven't been doing to ourselves. Factionalism is actually a very usefull tool to prevent the masses from uniting against the empowered elite. Much the  same way that you control a stampede by turning the herd in on itself, much of the lib/con, dem/rep excelsior that fills up our airwaves is of the same spirit.

  • Member since
    April 2018
  • 1,618 posts
Posted by Jones1945 on Saturday, November 23, 2019 7:35 AM

Flintlock76

Look for business elsewhere Mr. Fritz.  If the regionals and shortlines can find it so can you.

 

Screw Wall Street.

Miningman

Yes some of us certainly do have a concern, and give our support to our Forum Member who is fighting the good fight. In a way they are fighting for all us all against tyranny. It is shameful that some corporations sell out to the almighty buck and ironically in the process are they themselves controlled by this tyranny. 

Great things have small beginnings.

 

Well said.

Making deals with an "organ harvesting regime" that has been continuously violating international laws and treaties, allied with hostile like Russia and North Korea, sponsoring mobs like ISIL, purging every single religious group in its country (Yes, they are doing it right now), penetrating overseas flagship companies systematically (the list is too long) is always dangerous. It would lead us nowhere but aiding a so-called "communist" country that continually sees America as her number one threat. Now, even the Mainland Chinese are joking about how the CCP leading by Xi is brainwashing their kids in the schools: "Hate America in the morning, hate America in the afternoon, hate America in the evening, but study in America, and buy the iPhone."  Foreigners in China can't even buy a High-Speed Rail (HSR) ticket recently if he doesn't have the documents they need. Xi is turning his beautiful country upside down, trying to monitoring and manipulate every single citizen (including American who are working in China) with countless number of webcam, CCTV, spy app, and that infamous social credit system.

Note that the CCP has already messed up their economy so badly that almost every single local government except Shanghai, are in astronomical debts (as of March 2019). We are talking about 300 trillion RMB of (bad) debts here and there all over the former Communist China, now should be called the State Capitalism China. I really don't think trading with a country like this will bring America and the Free World a brighter future, it is like making deals with an eBay seller who has overwhelming negative reviews, even though he has countless alternative accounts (some of them are based in Russia, some of them ironically based in Hong Kong). There is a reason why Xi sent his daughter back to America, this is an open secret. Of course, he is not the first top party leaders of CCP who sent their family members and corrupt money to the Free World, they know this regime won't last long. I wish Mr. Fritz would take all these things into account when he is thinking about the long term interests of America and the future of the company he is leading.

I am glad to see that our representative and senator are still holding the ground of American values altogether, now it is Trump's turn to decide how to get the best use of the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy act of 2019, as well as the Uyghur Human Rights Policy Act of 2019. The Hong Kong Police Force, now probably directly under CCP's command since July 2019, is doing what you could only find in a Police State, systematically lynching, sexual assault, and murdering young protesters and their families for months, the reason behind is too obvious ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUIe4DNo3jQ) If you want details and first-hand evidence that you would find it disgusting, you know where to find them (and this is not the right place for me to show them) Xi turned an Asia's safest city, an international finance center into hell. But compared to the situation in the Xinjiang Uyghur "Autonomous" Region of China, the Uyghurs need even more immediate help, let alone millions of freedom-loving Chinese who are held hostage by their own government right now.

For the sake of justice, it should be the Free World to shape the future of humanity altogether, not the USSR, not the CCP/PRC+Russia+North Korea, never! 

Tags: my two cents
  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 9,728 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Saturday, November 23, 2019 9:48 AM

Thank you Mr. Jones!

As the "Man on the spot"  I was hoping you'd weigh in on this topic.  And he IS the man on the spot, trust me.  

  • Member since
    November 2014
  • 137 posts
Posted by JoeBlow on Saturday, November 23, 2019 6:11 PM

             I work in transportation at the Port of Los Angeles and there has been a downturn compared to previous years. Container terminals that used to be open 6 or 7 days a week are now operating only 4 or 5 days a week with reduced number of shifts.

             Perhaps the silver lining in this possible "permanent damage" will be the Class 1s taking a page from the smaller railroads and focusing on carload freight. Those 2 or 3 cars a week to that lumber yard can add up when there are thousand of them.  

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, November 23, 2019 7:25 PM

JoeBlow
             Perhaps the silver lining in this possible "permanent damage" will be the Class 1s taking a page from the smaller railroads and focusing on carload freight. Those 2 or 3 cars a week to that lumber yard can add up when there are thousand of them.  

There will have to be a movement that announces that PSR was the anti-customer initiative that it has been for that to happen.  I am not holding my breath.

In addition to the retrenchment of service, PSR has also sliced away most of the sales and marketing forces of the company's who are nominally the ones that seek out new traffic opportunities.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,015 posts
Posted by tree68 on Saturday, November 23, 2019 9:35 PM

BaltACD
In addition to the retrenchment of service, PSR has also sliced away most of the sales and marketing forces of the company's who are nominally the ones that seek out new traffic opportunities.

A self-fulfilling prophesy if ever there was one:  "We're not seeing a demand for carload traffic..."  Of course not.  There's no one to handle the sales if there was...

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • 2,678 posts
Posted by kgbw49 on Saturday, November 23, 2019 10:47 PM

Hitler butchered tens of millions of Germany's (and other occupied countries' ) people. Lenin and Stalin butchered tens of millions of Russia's (and other occupied countries') people. Mao butchered tens of millions of China's people. We should be helping freedom-loving people leave Hong Kong before 2047 when the iron fist of socialism clamps down around Hong Kong for good. 

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • 1,447 posts
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Sunday, November 24, 2019 7:36 AM

I can tell you this much from what we deal with on our custom blend resin side.  The on average 3-4 contaniers a week that were blended and shipped overseas to China yes we shipped that much overseas are now staying here in the USA and most of those loads are going out in my bosses own trucks.  The companies that needed them shipped overseas have relocated the manufactoring plants here in the states.  

  • Member since
    January 2019
  • From: Henrico, VA
  • 9,728 posts
Posted by Flintlock76 on Sunday, November 24, 2019 9:18 AM

Good for them!  

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, November 24, 2019 9:24 AM

Murphy Siding
maybe you were implying that part of the plan was to punish those who enabled the Chinese to move goods into our market-

Would it be okay to believe (hope) that part of the plan was intended to punish those who moved their production to China?

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,015 posts
Posted by tree68 on Sunday, November 24, 2019 9:35 AM

kgbw49
... iron fist of socialism...

 

Socialism, in and of itself, is not bad (not necessarily all that good, but...)

The same applies to communism.

The problem arises when those two terms are used as euphemisms for totalitarianism.  And all too often, that is actually the case.  

Anyone here read "Animal Farm?"  All was good until the pigs amended "but some are more equal than others" to the initial motto of "All animals are equal."

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, November 24, 2019 11:23 AM

tree68
 
kgbw49
... iron fist of socialism... 

Socialism, in and of itself, is not bad (not necessarily all that good, but...)

The same applies to communism.

The problem arises when those two terms are used as euphemisms for totalitarianism.  And all too often, that is actually the case.  

Anyone here read "Animal Farm?"  All was good until the pigs amended "but some are more equal than others" to the initial motto of "All animals are equal."

A 'Iron Fist' is totalarian tyrany no matter what form of economic system is used by the Iron Fist.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • 6,199 posts
Posted by Miningman on Sunday, November 24, 2019 12:45 PM

Socialism and Communism REQUIRE an iron fist in order to function. They run against the human nature of individuals in achievement, competition , freedom of expression and choice.  

  • Member since
    January 2014
  • 8,217 posts
Posted by Euclid on Sunday, November 24, 2019 1:03 PM

Miningman

Socialism and Communism REQUIRE an iron fist in order to function. They run against the human nature of individuals in achievement, competition , freedom of expression and choice.  

 

Yes.

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • 4,557 posts
Posted by Convicted One on Sunday, November 24, 2019 1:10 PM

Miningman

Socialism and Communism REQUIRE an iron fist in order to function.

I consider Canada more socialist than the USA, please describe the iron fist of Canada

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,292 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, November 24, 2019 1:28 PM

Convicted One
 
Miningman

Socialism and Communism REQUIRE an iron fist in order to function. 

I consider Canada more socialist than the USA, please describe the iron fist of Canada

I view what we are seeing in China, these days, is Iron Fisted Capitalism, with governmental assistance in attacking foreign markets and the govenment getting a return on the 'assistance'.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy