tree68The businesses know that they will see a lot of customers, but they also know they will be very busy for several hours. Kind of a mixed blessing.
The issue that isn't being discussed here is all the other residents in the area, who don't benefit financially from the tourism but certainly have to deal with the crossing flaggings, parking issues, and other issues without, in all probability, deriving any continuing joy from watching the operation. They are the ones whose votes matter in local elections, and it wouldn't be surprising to see them vote to have those costs redressed by a direct tax on the 'cause' rather than a forced levy on them.
It's common-carrier transportation if people ride it to get to a destination. It's amusement when pitched as a scenic ride that returns to its point of origin. You may recall that the clever 'interstate transport' thing foundered on the fact that you couldn't get off the train, let alone buy a ticket to, the "interstate" point reached.
I got the impression from RyPN that no one is proposing "amusement tax" for the RDC service to the Philadelphia area that RBMN runs. That is much more a legitimate transportation service than the Lehigh Gorge operation.
I still can't get over the inescapable feeling that this is associated with all the dollars paid to RBMN for flagging services earlier.
D.CarletonThat said, as per the linked PBS news piece it's inferred the railroad hasn't paid the tribute in 10 years. Did they ever? Perhaps a wrong conclusion on their part.
Sounds to me like a question of definition - the municipality has an "amusement tax." Is a tourist operation within a commercial rail operation an "amusement?" I think I read that the RR doesn't see it that way. Apparently the municipality does. One might wonder if the types of "amusements" are defined in the enabling law, or if it's subject to interpretation, which can change over time. Previous administrations may have agreed with the RR's interpretation, thus didn't pursue the issue.
As for communities tiring of tourist rail operations - I was at breakfast Saturday morning, before our "layover" train was going to bring almost 500 people into a very tourist-oriented community of about 750 souls. When I told them of the passenger count (they know I volunteer with the RR), there was a certain amount of "groan." The businesses know that they will see a lot of customers, but they also know they will be very busy for several hours. Kind of a mixed blessing.
There are folks who are "tired" of the railroad, but their agenda has nothing to do with the railroad and the accompanying passengers and everything to do with simply getting the tracks out of the woods. The same ilk also fights, tooth and nail, to prevent any kind of development in the forest.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The Gorge train they switch the locomotive somewhere in the middle of the ride to save fuel. Never took the Gorge ride, thats just what I am told.
The Budd rail car from Reading into Jim Thorpe can be driven from both ends.
As far as the diesel locomotive or the steamer, I'm not really sure. A coworker was there over the weekend, so I can find out.
Regards - Steve
BaltACDI guess without the taxes on the Lehigh Gorge, Jim Throrpe will return to Mauch Chunk.
That said, as per the linked PBS news piece it's inferred the railroad hasn't paid the tribute in 10 years. Did they ever? Perhaps a wrong conclusion on their part.
This iteration of the train has been running since 2005 but the borough seeks duty for only the last ten years and that's only after an "audit" from this year. Did they audit the railroad's books? Highly unlikely. Did an audit of their own books reveal they were asleep for a decade? This doesn't smell right.
Editor Emeritus, This Week at Amtrak
It seems a lot of scenic towns have grown tired of tourist rail operations, and want something else. There are 3 such cases in neighboring state New York. Even in Durango, many locals are suing the D&S for million$ for forest fire damage they blame on their steam engines.
We were only in Jim Thorpe briefly, and most of that was at lunch in a pub. I did not see the train go or come.
I'm curious. Does the train go one direction in a push move? Or does the engine run around the train? I assume there is no wye.
Here in Strasburg the train departs with the loco pulling, but tender first. At the junction (with NS), the engine runs around the train, and pulls it back to Strasburg facing "correctly."
A few days ago we rode the Stourbrige Line. Going was pull mode, by a Pennsy-painted F7. (The BL-2 was ailing.) Returning was all push mode, with a brakeman riding the now-leading caboose with a radio.
Lithonia Operator I hope the railroad is bluffing, and that a solution can be worked out.
Reading between the lines, the town is expecting to use the tax revenue for "improvements' unassociated with the railroad's operations, or actually to enhance competing 'tourist' attractions. Without needing to allocate a nickel of actual tax revenue from 'voting' taxpayers to accomplish this.
It is possible Andy is doing the same sort of thing the Pikes Peak people seem to have done (and it's really no different except for scale from the scams sports-team owners use to 'venue-shop' to extort the best deal for them): here, state what the railroad will not do if it is expected to pay amusement tax; and in negotiations raise the issue of town support, perhaps as a minimum to establish effective 'sterilization' of any expense for amusement tax 'out of the local authority's other hand')
Likelihood that something this significant will be abolished forever? I think little. But expect to see a game of 'chicken' brinksmanship played fairly close to, and perhaps even a bit past, the stated deadline...
Now, if I were Andy, I'd have set up an arms-length separate entity (in part to shield liability) and leased the equipment and trackage rights to it; a lesser man than Andy would just roll this and let the town sue the receiver. Then establish a new plan, specifically answering the amusement and other tax situation as well as demanding additional concessions for the 'benefits' the train service brings, set up a new operating entity (or bid for one) and lease the equipment to them in turn...
We happened to be there yesterday morning, and a reporter was doing a TV report about the situation. It's a good, fair report, IMO.
https://www.wlvt.org/blogs/carbon/lehigh-gorge-scenic-railway-announces-no-more-train-excursions-in-jim-thorpe
By chance she asked me for a comment. I said sure. I'm the old bearded buzzard with a southern accent who appears very briefly near the end.
Jim Thorpe is a fabulous town. Thanks again to the gentleman who suggested visiting there. I hope the railroad is bluffing, and that a solution can be worked out. It will be a real shame if the train really ends.
OvermodSomething as yet unclear to me is why Jim Thorpe, or some local agency, isn't actively supporting the cost of the operation in some way. Surely the arguments used to justify all sorts of little levies for sports stadiums and the like, which show up in hidden charges even on local phone service, rental cars, and lodging could be applied here. Let alone the strictly local as well as 'area' revenues from tourism, or even 'employment in the area', associated with the operation.
I guess without the taxes on the Lehigh Gorge, Jim Throrpe will return to Mauch Chunk.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Something as yet unclear to me is why Jim Thorpe, or some local agency, isn't actively supporting the cost of the operation in some way. Surely the arguments used to justify all sorts of little levies for sports stadiums and the like, which show up in hidden charges even on local phone service, rental cars, and lodging could be applied here. Let alone the strictly local as well as 'area' revenues from tourism, or even 'employment in the area', associated with the operation.
https://www.readingeagle.com/money/article/jim-thorpe-scenic-railroad-to-shut-down
There you go, lit it up for you.
I just read the story. Obviously the mayor of Jim Thorpe never heard the story about not killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, or it he did he never got the message.
There are good bits of wisdom in those old fairy tales, but you have to pay attention.
Big mistake on Jim Thorpe's part, if you ask me.
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